"Gun Appreciation Day" Didn't Work Out So Well,..

[Dragonlady]

And so, until you come up with the number of times guns are useed for self-defense, and then gauge that number against a relevant standard, you cannot support your claim at all.

I believe that's what I said.

And then I linked to a lot of studies, all of which indicate that gun does not make people safer and in fact the opposite is true. And another study which concluded that the majority of incidents where people claim to have used the gun in self-defence, using their own accounds of the events, were illegally using the gun to threaten and intimidate others.

The whole point many of us are trying to make here is that in study after study, any claims made by gun activists as to the how guns make you safer, has been refuted time and time again. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that gun ownership is any deterrent to crime whatsoever, and a whole lot of evidence unrestricted gun ownership results in high crime rates and reduced public safety.

And you're trying to deflect attention and discussion away from all of these issues.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Hey m14, how many kids get killed accidentally by guns in the parents house. Or another parents house where the kid was a visitor. Pull that number out of your "stats". Should be an interesting one.

Not the gun's fault.

Parents fault.

So hold the parents liable when they fail to safeguard their weapons properly.

 

[M14 Shooter]

And so, until you come up with the number of times guns are useed for self-defense, and then gauge that number against a relevant standard, you cannot support your claim at all.

I believe that's what I said.

You said you cannot support your claim?
I doubt that's what you really mean.

So, to support your claim, please provide:
- An accurate number of times per year that guns are used in self defense.
- An accurate and relevant standard against which this number can be used to judge the benefits/detriments of extercising the right to gun ownership.
Then:
- Explain how this comparison shows your claim to be sound.

 

[Dragonlady]

Gee you really don't want to talk about that Harvard study do you. That really messes with your head, the idea that the majority of claims of using the gun for self-defense were in fact, illegal acts of aggression for which the gun owner could have been charged.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Gee you really don't want....

I'm sorry -- we're discussing a claim that you made.

To support your claim, please provide:
- An accurate number of times per year that guns are used in self defense.
- An accurate and relevant standard against which this number can be used to judge the benefits/detriments of exercising the right to gun ownership.
Then:
- Explain how this comparison shows your claim to be sound.

If you cannot do these things, the only honest course of action is to admit that you cannot support the claim that you made.

 

[skookerasbil]

Far left people get hysterical about everything that goes on in the world. Whats up with that? Moreover, what do limpwristers worry about that for? If there are stories about guns and it freaks you out, "OH MY GOD.....A KILLING DONE WITH A GUN!!!"..........just move on to some other story or topic. Why spend even a second on this fantasy that guns are going away???

Most killings done at gun shows or anywhere else are killings of fucked up people by fucked up people or by people soon to be fucked up. I shoot at a range for years now and when I shoot there, there are 50 other guys ( or gals ) shooting with me. There is enough ammo there on any given day to obliterate a small city inside of an hour. Unlike the limpwristers who wouldnt go within 20 miles of a target range, I feel 100% safe 100% of the time Nobody ever gets shot there.........ever........for decades there. When gang-banger fucks show up at gun shows looking to score a gun, they get shot by other gang banger fucks = good riddence. Less mutants in the world is always a good thing.........less savages out there that I might have to shoot in the face one day.

 

[Ernie S.]

You have no honest choice but to admit that, in terms of defensive uses v accidental shootings, the metric you initially chose, you cannot support your claim.

Ah, but neither can you support your claim that my information is false. On the other hand I did find a very interesting study which conducted in depth surveys of people who had used guns for self defense, sent the gun owners reports of the events to criminal judges and had the judge provide an opinion as to whether this was a valid, legal claim of self defence and they found that:

Even after excluding many reported firearm victimizations, far more survey respondents report having been threatened or intimidated with a gun than having used a gun to protect themselves. A majority of the reported self defense gun uses were rated as probably illegal by a majority of judges. This was so even under the assumption that the respondent had a permit to own and carry the gun, and that the respondent had described the event honestly

The study concluded that:

Guns are used to threaten and intimidate far more often than they are used in self defense. Most self reported self defense gun uses may well be illegal and against the interests of society.

Gun use in the United States: results from two national surveys -- Hemenway et al. 6 (4): 263 -- Injury Prevention

Here are links to three Harvard studies:

Harvard School of Public Health » Harvard Injury Control Research Center » Accidents

1. Across states, more guns = more unintentional firearm deaths

2. Across states, unsafe gun storage = more unintentional firearm deaths

3. Youth killed in gun accidents are shot by other youth

No. 2 would seem to be a no-brainer and a waste of research monies.

If unrestricted private gun ownership makes people safer and reduces crime, why does the US have more murders and violent crime than any other nations which restrict gun control. If guns keep people safe, why is the US the most crime ridden first world nation on earth?

Perhaps if we sent the data to judges picked by someone with the opposite agenda?

Guns do not commit crimes. Hell, my Glock doesn't even smoke dope.

 

[Dragonlady]

Most killings done at gun shows or anywhere else are killings of fucked up people by fucked up people or by people soon to be fucked up. I shoot at a range for years now and when I shoot there, there are 50 other guys ( or gals ) shooting with me. Unlike the limpwristers who wouldnt go within 20 miles of a target range, I feel 100% safe 100% of the time Nobody ever gets shot there.........ever........for decades there. When gang-banger fucks show up at gun shows looking to score a gun, they get shot by other gang banger fucks = good riddence. Less mutants in the world is always a good thing.........less savages out there that I might have to shoot in the face one day.

Well actually, no. Most gun related deaths are either accidents or suicides. There were 30,470 fire-arm related deaths in the US in 2010, of which over 63% were suicides. Nearly 1/3 of all non-fatal gunshot injuries are accidental, so no, the majority of deaths and injuries are fuck-ups shooting other fuck-ups.

In 2009, according to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, 66.9% of all homicides in the United States were perpetrated using a firearm.[5] There were 52,447 deliberate and 23,237 accidental non-fatal gunshot injuries in the United States during 2000.[6] Two-thirds of all gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides. Of the 30,470 firearm-related deaths in the United States in 2010, 19,392 (63.6%) were suicide deaths, and 11,078 (36.4%) homicide deaths.[7]

 

[bigrebnc1775]

For the idiots
Gun control history was racial at the roots
The first gun control laws. was aimed at blacks.

The Supreme Court in the McDonald decision wrote about how, after the Civil War, the Southern States started passing laws, called "Black Codes", to systematically disarm blacks, specifically the over 180,000 blacks who returned to the States of the old Confederacy after serving in the Union Army. In response to the "Black Codes," the Republican-controlled Congress passed the Civil Rights Act of 1866. But the Democrats would not be deterred. Very soon after the 1866 law was enacted, Alabama, followed by other Southern States, again passed "Black Codes" that made it illegal for blacks to own firearms.
BLACK REPUBLICAN: National Black Republican Association E-News: Supreme Court Affirms Racist Origins of Gun Control

 

[Dubya]

For the idiots
Gun control history was racial at the roots
The first gun control laws. was aimed at blacks.

The Supreme Court in the McDonald decision wrote about how, after the Civil War, the Southern States started passing laws, called "Black Codes", to systematically disarm blacks, specifically the over 180,000 blacks who returned to the States of the old Confederacy after serving in the Union Army. In response to the "Black Codes," the Republican-controlled Congress passed the Civil Rights Act of 1866. But the Democrats would not be deterred. Very soon after the 1866 law was enacted, Alabama, followed by other Southern States, again passed "Black Codes" that made it illegal for blacks to own firearms.
BLACK REPUBLICAN: National Black Republican Association E-News: Supreme Court Affirms Racist Origins of Gun Control

That has nothing to do with gun control and there were gun control issues before the Civil War. Modern gun control started because of the gangster era during the Great Depression.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

For the idiots
Gun control history was racial at the roots
The first gun control laws. was aimed at blacks.

The Supreme Court in the McDonald decision wrote about how, after the Civil War, the Southern States started passing laws, called "Black Codes", to systematically disarm blacks, specifically the over 180,000 blacks who returned to the States of the old Confederacy after serving in the Union Army. In response to the "Black Codes," the Republican-controlled Congress passed the Civil Rights Act of 1866. But the Democrats would not be deterred. Very soon after the 1866 law was enacted, Alabama, followed by other Southern States, again passed "Black Codes" that made it illegal for blacks to own firearms.
BLACK REPUBLICAN: National Black Republican Association E-News: Supreme Court Affirms Racist Origins of Gun Control

That has nothing to do with gun control and there were gun control issues before the Civil War. Modern gun control started because of the gangster era during the Great Depression.

Denying free blacks to right to firearms would be what?
Denying blacks the right to firearm after the 14th amendment ratification would be what?

You are one stupid son of a bitch.
Too also remind you democrats started the klan

 

[Dubya]

For the idiots
Gun control history was racial at the roots
The first gun control laws. was aimed at blacks.

The Supreme Court in the McDonald decision wrote about how, after the Civil War, the Southern States started passing laws, called "Black Codes", to systematically disarm blacks, specifically the over 180,000 blacks who returned to the States of the old Confederacy after serving in the Union Army. In response to the "Black Codes," the Republican-controlled Congress passed the Civil Rights Act of 1866. But the Democrats would not be deterred. Very soon after the 1866 law was enacted, Alabama, followed by other Southern States, again passed "Black Codes" that made it illegal for blacks to own firearms.
BLACK REPUBLICAN: National Black Republican Association E-News: Supreme Court Affirms Racist Origins of Gun Control

That has nothing to do with gun control and there were gun control issues before the Civil War. Modern gun control started because of the gangster era during the Great Depression.

Denying free blacks to right to firearms would be what?
Denying blacks the right to firearm after the 14th amendment ratification would be what?

You are one stupid son of a bitch.
Too also remind you democrats started the klan

Jim Crow laws has nothing to do with national gun control laws, fool! There were court cases involving restrictions on arms long before the Civil War.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

That has nothing to do with gun control and there were gun control issues before the Civil War. Modern gun control started because of the gangster era during the Great Depression.

Denying free blacks to right to firearms would be what?
Denying blacks the right to firearm after the 14th amendment ratification would be what?

You are one stupid son of a bitch.
Too also remind you democrats started the klan

Jim Crow laws has nothing to do with national gun control laws, fool! There were court cases involving restrictions on arms long before the Civil War.

Your stupidity goes beyond the realm of normal stupidity. What the fuck is gun control? What is the fuck were black laws or codes used and enforced by individual states??

 

[M14 Shooter]

For the idiots
Gun control history was racial at the roots
The first gun control laws. was aimed at blacks.

The Supreme Court in the McDonald decision wrote about how, after the Civil War, the Southern States started passing laws, called "Black Codes", to systematically disarm blacks, specifically the over 180,000 blacks who returned to the States of the old Confederacy after serving in the Union Army. In response to the "Black Codes," the Republican-controlled Congress passed the Civil Rights Act of 1866. But the Democrats would not be deterred. Very soon after the 1866 law was enacted, Alabama, followed by other Southern States, again passed "Black Codes" that made it illegal for blacks to own firearms.
BLACK REPUBLICAN: National Black Republican Association E-News: Supreme Court Affirms Racist Origins of Gun Control

That has nothing to do with gun control and there were gun control issues before the Civil War. Modern gun control started because of the gangster era during the Great Depression.

Denying free blacks to right to firearms would be what?
Denying blacks the right to firearm after the 14th amendment ratification would be what?

You are one stupid son of a bitch.
Too also remind you democrats started the klan

Why did they want to disarm the blacks?
So they would have no effective means to resist and could be oppressed.
Why do they now want to disarm everyone of an effective means to resist?
Not too hard to figure.

 

[Dubya]

Denying free blacks to right to firearms would be what?
Denying blacks the right to firearm after the 14th amendment ratification would be what?

You are one stupid son of a bitch.
Too also remind you democrats started the klan

Jim Crow laws has nothing to do with national gun control laws, fool! There were court cases involving restrictions on arms long before the Civil War.

Your stupidity goes beyond the realm of normal stupidity. What the fuck is gun control? What is the fuck were black laws or codes used and enforced by individual states??

You're the idiots claiming gun control started because they wanted to disarm Blacks. States made those Jim Crow laws and your whole argument is nonsense.

We've had an assault weapons ban before and it didn't even take away assault weapons from the people who owned them. The idea that you will be disarmed is your insanity speaking and it's worried about those mental health Executive Orders. You are a bunch of lying ass nutcases.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Jim Crow laws has nothing to do with national gun control laws, fool! There were court cases involving restrictions on arms long before the Civil War.

Your stupidity goes beyond the realm of normal stupidity. What the fuck is gun control? What is the fuck were black laws or codes used and enforced by individual states??

You're the idiots claiming gun control started because they wanted to disarm Blacks. States made those Jim Crow laws and your whole argument is nonsense.

We've had an assault weapons ban before and it didn't even take away assault weapons from the people who owned them. The idea that you will be disarmed is your insanity speaking and it's worried about those mental health Executive Orders. You are a bunch of lying ass nutcases.

Yes white democrats wanted to disarm blacks.
Do you know what black codes were?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

That has nothing to do with gun control and there were gun control issues before the Civil War. Modern gun control started because of the gangster era during the Great Depression.

Denying free blacks to right to firearms would be what?
Denying blacks the right to firearm after the 14th amendment ratification would be what?

You are one stupid son of a bitch.
Too also remind you democrats started the klan

Why did they want to disarm the blacks?
So they would have no effective means to resist and could be oppressed.
Why do they now want to disarm everyone of an effective means to resist?
Not too hard to figure.

exactly.

 

[Dubya]

Denying free blacks to right to firearms would be what?
Denying blacks the right to firearm after the 14th amendment ratification would be what?

You are one stupid son of a bitch.
Too also remind you democrats started the klan

Why did they want to disarm the blacks?
So they would have no effective means to resist and could be oppressed.
Why do they now want to disarm everyone of an effective means to resist?
Not too hard to figure.

exactly.

You people are so nuts, you better worry about losing your guns. Tell it to the Shrink!

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Why did they want to disarm the blacks?
So they would have no effective means to resist and could be oppressed.
Why do they now want to disarm everyone of an effective means to resist?
Not too hard to figure.

exactly.

You people are so nuts, you better worry about losing your guns. Tell it to the Shrink!

I'm not the one that is lying his ass off defending a false argument that gun control wasn't first used to keep blacks disarmed. I'm not the one who argues that democrats was not the ones who first started the klan. You have issues I suggest you take care of them.

 

[Dubya]

Your stupidity goes beyond the realm of normal stupidity. What the fuck is gun control? What is the fuck were black laws or codes used and enforced by individual states??

You're the idiots claiming gun control started because they wanted to disarm Blacks. States made those Jim Crow laws and your whole argument is nonsense.

We've had an assault weapons ban before and it didn't even take away assault weapons from the people who owned them. The idea that you will be disarmed is your insanity speaking and it's worried about those mental health Executive Orders. You are a bunch of lying ass nutcases.

Yes white democrats wanted to disarm blacks.
Do you know what black codes were?

White people in the Jim Crow South wanted all kinds of bullshit and had it for awhile. We are talking about laws in states and the federal government that apply to everyone equally and those are two entirely different subjects. Canes and walking sticks were a fashion of the early days and manufacturers would put swords in them. There were attempts to ban such items when robbers started using them.

I'm sure you idiots didn't think up that nonsense about Blacks being the cause of gun control and your right-wing think tanks started that bullshit. You're just too stupid to know how they play you, like the fool you are.