Has any private citizen EVER fired more than 20 shots in Self-Defense? EVER?

[bucs90]

I want some facts and truthiness. Has ANY private citizen (not a cop, solider, militia, security guard)....EVER needed more than 20 shots for any single incident of self-defense? I tried researching it, and I cant fine a single incident. Ever. I found one website with a lot of good stats from the NRA's own sources: The Thinking Gunfighter: Self Defense Findings

How many self defense situations required a "reload"? : About 1/2 of 1% it says, so, 0.5%.

How many shots are fired by the defender? : In most cases, about 2. Yes, TWO.

The average number of shots fired by the defender? 2. The median? 2.

It says the majority of cases where more than 2 were fired were the defender simply shooting the gun until empty, out of reaction, not necessity.

Out 482 shooting incidents studied (By the NRA), only 3 required a reload. 1 of the 3 was to kill a Lion (like the cat) who escaped, and a large cal revolver was used, needing 13 shots to kill the animal.

The largest number of "attackers" reported, across the country, was 7...where 7 men tried to do a home invasion. The home owner fought them off, killed 2, wounded 1................with a SHOTGUN.

Im trying to find an example. And I cant. I cant find one single example of a private citizen needing a 30 round magazine to fight off intruders or attackers. Not one. Not one single incident. In fact, every single incident seems that a 15 round magazine would be PLENTY to get the job done....yep, even if the attacker is an African Lion.

Im a gun rights supporter, but I also try to see both sides of all issues. Well....Im having trouble justifying the need for 30, 45, 50, or 100 round magazines in the hands of private citizens. Should they be banned? I dont think so. It wouldnt change anything except add more work for the understaffed PD's to enforce yet another law. But, is there a justified NEED for them? Absolutely not.

 

[OriginalShroom]

I wouldn't know.

What I do know is that I carry 31 rounds with me whenever I leave the house. Even if I am just going to Wal*Mart.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Since the 2nd Amendment also pertains to the Militia, both organized and unorganized your point is meaningless. As a Militia the people need to have the same carry capacity as the military. Which is 30 rounds for the supposed assault weapons.

 

[bucs90]

I wouldn't know.

What I do know is that I carry 31 rounds with me whenever I leave the house. Even if I am just going to Wal*Mart.

Can I respectfully ask why?

I carry a Smith and Wesson M&P compact .40. 10 rounds. I have an extra 10 round mag in the truck, with an extra box of ammo (not loaded, dont want the spring to wear down). I've never felt under-armed for what I may realistically face (although unlikely).

 

[bucs90]

Since the 2nd Amendment also pertains to the Militia, both organized and unorganized your point is meaningless. As a Militia the people need to have the same carry capacity as the military. Which is 30 rounds for the supposed assault weapons.

Yeah. Thats what South Carolina is trying to argue. But, to have the same capability as the military, we'd have to give every trailor park Bubba and section-8 Jerome the ability to own an RPG and some hand grenades. As a former cop, I say PLEASE GOD do not give the people in those communities that type of weaponry. They do enough damage with the bullshit High Point 9's.

 

[martybegan]

I want some facts and truthiness. Has ANY private citizen (not a cop, solider, militia, security guard)....EVER needed more than 20 shots for any single incident of self-defense? I tried researching it, and I cant fine a single incident. Ever. I found one website with a lot of good stats from the NRA's own sources: The Thinking Gunfighter: Self Defense Findings

How many self defense situations required a "reload"? : About 1/2 of 1% it says, so, 0.5%.

How many shots are fired by the defender? : In most cases, about 2. Yes, TWO.

The average number of shots fired by the defender? 2. The median? 2.

It says the majority of cases where more than 2 were fired were the defender simply shooting the gun until empty, out of reaction, not necessity.

Out 482 shooting incidents studied (By the NRA), only 3 required a reload. 1 of the 3 was to kill a Lion (like the cat) who escaped, and a large cal revolver was used, needing 13 shots to kill the animal.

The largest number of "attackers" reported, across the country, was 7...where 7 men tried to do a home invasion. The home owner fought them off, killed 2, wounded 1................with a SHOTGUN.

Im trying to find an example. And I cant. I cant find one single example of a private citizen needing a 30 round magazine to fight off intruders or attackers. Not one. Not one single incident. In fact, every single incident seems that a 15 round magazine would be PLENTY to get the job done....yep, even if the attacker is an African Lion.

Im a gun rights supporter, but I also try to see both sides of all issues. Well....Im having trouble justifying the need for 30, 45, 50, or 100 round magazines in the hands of private citizens. Should they be banned? I dont think so. It wouldnt change anything except add more work for the understaffed PD's to enforce yet another law. But, is there a justified NEED for them? Absolutely not.

The issue becomes that once you create a limit on the number of rounds a person can have in a mag, you now put the advantage on the intruder, as if they assume the person is law abiding, and in a state where the limit is "x" number of shots per mag, the perp knows how many rounds they have, and thus can use a higher round mag, or just wait until they hear the number of rounds expended, and give it a go when the poor bastard is reloading.

The overriding issue is: Will a mag restriction really do any good? If the answer is "no" then there is no justification for it other than feel good "WE DID SOMETHING" statist backslapping.

 

[g5000]

Has a policeman ever fired more than 20 rounds in self-defense? Ever?

 

[martybegan]

Since the 2nd Amendment also pertains to the Militia, both organized and unorganized your point is meaningless. As a Militia the people need to have the same carry capacity as the military. Which is 30 rounds for the supposed assault weapons.

Yeah. Thats what South Carolina is trying to argue. But, to have the same capability as the military, we'd have to give every trailor park Bubba and section-8 Jerome the ability to own an RPG and some hand grenades. As a former cop, I say PLEASE GOD do not give the people in those communities that type of weaponry. They do enough damage with the bullshit High Point 9's.

"As a former cop." That is the crux of the issue. You probably assume any restriction we would have to live with would not apply to you due to your "in" with local law enforcement.

My question to you is: Would you live with the restrictions put in place for other citizens, or would you expect an "out" due to your former status as a peace officer?

 

[Spoonman]

I want some facts and truthiness. Has ANY private citizen (not a cop, solider, militia, security guard)....EVER needed more than 20 shots for any single incident of self-defense? I tried researching it, and I cant fine a single incident. Ever. I found one website with a lot of good stats from the NRA's own sources: The Thinking Gunfighter: Self Defense Findings

How many self defense situations required a "reload"? : About 1/2 of 1% it says, so, 0.5%.

How many shots are fired by the defender? : In most cases, about 2. Yes, TWO.

The average number of shots fired by the defender? 2. The median? 2.

It says the majority of cases where more than 2 were fired were the defender simply shooting the gun until empty, out of reaction, not necessity.

Out 482 shooting incidents studied (By the NRA), only 3 required a reload. 1 of the 3 was to kill a Lion (like the cat) who escaped, and a large cal revolver was used, needing 13 shots to kill the animal.

The largest number of "attackers" reported, across the country, was 7...where 7 men tried to do a home invasion. The home owner fought them off, killed 2, wounded 1................with a SHOTGUN.

Im trying to find an example. And I cant. I cant find one single example of a private citizen needing a 30 round magazine to fight off intruders or attackers. Not one. Not one single incident. In fact, every single incident seems that a 15 round magazine would be PLENTY to get the job done....yep, even if the attacker is an African Lion.

Im a gun rights supporter, but I also try to see both sides of all issues. Well....Im having trouble justifying the need for 30, 45, 50, or 100 round magazines in the hands of private citizens. Should they be banned? I dont think so. It wouldnt change anything except add more work for the understaffed PD's to enforce yet another law. But, is there a justified NEED for them? Absolutely not.

everytime i go to the range i empty multiple large capacity magazines. since when did it all becoem about self defense only? personally when i'm paying for range time i'd rather be shooting then reloading.

 

[g5000]

This is just another of many topics started by someone who believes you have to prove a need before you are allowed to exercise your constitutional rights. I think such people should have to prove they need hardcore porn before they are allowed access to it. And I don't think anyone needs more than ten photos or more than a few minutes of video. No one NEEDS 20 photos.

Porn kills. It needs to be heavily controlled.

I also think such people should have to prove they need to be here, spewing their opinions about stuff. They certainly don't need to be here more than 15 minutes a day. The certainly don't NEED to be here for 20 minutes.

If you are going to be a totalitarian prick, do it right!

 

[OriginalShroom]

I wouldn't know.

What I do know is that I carry 31 rounds with me whenever I leave the house. Even if I am just going to Wal*Mart.

Can I respectfully ask why?

I carry a Smith and Wesson M&P compact .40. 10 rounds. I have an extra 10 round mag in the truck, with an extra box of ammo (not loaded, dont want the spring to wear down). I've never felt under-armed for what I may realistically face (although unlikely).

I can carry two extra mags in the holster, so I do.

Just as when I get in the car, my gun comes out of the holster and under the handtowel I keep on the passenger seat. When I park the car, the gun goes back in the holster.

I won't get caught not being able to reach my gun again.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

I wouldn't know.

What I do know is that I carry 31 rounds with me whenever I leave the house. Even if I am just going to Wal*Mart.

I would call you part of the problem and not the solution, then. Why do you need a gun to go to Walmart? Where do you live? Azerbaijan? Somalia? Syria?

Or are you just a paranoid freak like Adam Lanza and Christopher Dorner?

 

[Spoonman]

Since the 2nd Amendment also pertains to the Militia, both organized and unorganized your point is meaningless. As a Militia the people need to have the same carry capacity as the military. Which is 30 rounds for the supposed assault weapons.

Yeah. Thats what South Carolina is trying to argue. But, to have the same capability as the military, we'd have to give every trailor park Bubba and section-8 Jerome the ability to own an RPG and some hand grenades. As a former cop, I say PLEASE GOD do not give the people in those communities that type of weaponry. They do enough damage with the bullshit High Point 9's.

well if we didn't give cops that kind of weaponry we wouldn't have the recent CA cop incident. and if we didn't give the military that kind of weaponry we wouldn't have had the ft hood incident. of course we'd be getting our asses kicked by gangs and rogue nations at every turn.

 

[Spoonman]

I wouldn't know.

What I do know is that I carry 31 rounds with me whenever I leave the house. Even if I am just going to Wal*Mart.

I would call you part of the problem and not the solution, then. Why do you need a gun to go to Walmart? Where do you live? Azerbaijan? Somalia? Syria?

Or are you just a paranoid freak like Adam Lanza and Christopher Dorner?

because they accept food stamps

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

I wouldn't know.

What I do know is that I carry 31 rounds with me whenever I leave the house. Even if I am just going to Wal*Mart.

Can I respectfully ask why?

I carry a Smith and Wesson M&P compact .40. 10 rounds. I have an extra 10 round mag in the truck, with an extra box of ammo (not loaded, dont want the spring to wear down). I've never felt under-armed for what I may realistically face (although unlikely).

I can carry two extra mags in the holster, so I do.

Just as when I get in the car, my gun comes out of the holster and under the handtowel I keep on the passenger seat. When I park the car, the gun goes back in the holster.

I won't get caught not being able to reach my gun again.

Matchstick cowboy. What are the chances you'll do something totally idiotic like the bozo in South Africa before you actually have to defend yourself?

 

[martybegan]

I wouldn't know.

What I do know is that I carry 31 rounds with me whenever I leave the house. Even if I am just going to Wal*Mart.

I would call you part of the problem and not the solution, then. Why do you need a gun to go to Walmart? Where do you live? Azerbaijan? Somalia? Syria?

Or are you just a paranoid freak like Adam Lanza and Christopher Dorner?

He doesn't need it. He wants to do it, and since that is his RIGHT, you have no say in it until you amend the constitution.

 

[bucs90]

Has a policeman ever fired more than 20 rounds in self-defense? Ever?

Yes. More times than I can link. The most famous is probably the North Hollywood shootout. The Pittsburgh SWAT team fired THOUSANDS of rounds in the shootout a few years ago. Several incidents here in South Carolina come to mind, including the Rock Hill bank robbery where they shot it out with a gun armed with a full auto AK. There is a key difference in police shootings. As the study says, most bad guys RUN when shot back at (cowards). But the police chase them to finish the job. Private citizens dont.

BTW, Im NOT for banning 30 round mags. But I love debate, and I cant find a single example to justify the true need for a private citizen to have one.

It is a virtual certainty that in a self defense situation, you'll likely need only 2-5 shots max, and the perp is likely dead or running at that point.

 

[Freemason9]

I wouldn't know.

What I do know is that I carry 31 rounds with me whenever I leave the house. Even if I am just going to Wal*Mart.

You create your own dragons, and then you live in fear of them.

People like you--that feel compelled to "protect" themselves with crazy amounts of firearms and ammunition--live in fear of things that other people never, ever worry over.

If I could give you meaningful advice, it would be to rid yourself of the "armor" you hide inside. Become a free person and get rid of your "protection." Meet the world as it is, and don't worry so much about being harmed.

If you walk as a free person, you will be much happier and free of fear.

 

[martybegan]

I wouldn't know.

What I do know is that I carry 31 rounds with me whenever I leave the house. Even if I am just going to Wal*Mart.

You create your own dragons, and then you live in fear of them.

People like you--that feel compelled to "protect" themselves with crazy amounts of firearms and ammunition--live in fear of things that other people never, ever worry over.

If I could give you meaningful advice, it would be to rid yourself of the "armor" you hide inside. Become a free person and get rid of your "protection." Meet the world as it is, and don't worry so much about being harmed.

If you walk as a free person, you will be much happier and free of fear.

He's walking pretty free with that handgun I would think. And I would prefer to meet the "world" more armed than the "world" who would want to do me harm.

 

[OriginalShroom]

All of you, when you have had your windows busted out while sitting at a red light at 2 in the afternoon and someone try to drag through the window, then you can tell me what I should and shouldn't do.

Until then, you can all kiss my ass.

While the cops didn't try very hard to find that guy, the next one will be much easier to find. Either their body will be lying there or they will just have to follow the blood trail.