Has any private citizen EVER fired more than 20 shots in Self-Defense? EVER?

[bucs90]

Since the 2nd Amendment also pertains to the Militia, both organized and unorganized your point is meaningless. As a Militia the people need to have the same carry capacity as the military. Which is 30 rounds for the supposed assault weapons.

Yeah. Thats what South Carolina is trying to argue. But, to have the same capability as the military, we'd have to give every trailor park Bubba and section-8 Jerome the ability to own an RPG and some hand grenades. As a former cop, I say PLEASE GOD do not give the people in those communities that type of weaponry. They do enough damage with the bullshit High Point 9's.

"As a former cop." That is the crux of the issue. You probably assume any restriction we would have to live with would not apply to you due to your "in" with local law enforcement.

My question to you is: Would you live with the restrictions put in place for other citizens, or would you expect an "out" due to your former status as a peace officer?

The only "out" cops and former cops have is the Patriot Act allows all cops and former cops to carry concealed (without permit) nationwide, anywhere except military bases and courts. I guess the reasoning is that they know cops have the safety and tactical training to act should a terror attack or mass shooting break out. BUT, I think the same rule should apply to former military members, or at least certain military jobs or ranks (not sure, military guys could add better info on this).

But as for all other gun laws, cops aren't exempt. We cant have a full auto M4 without the stamp, just like you cant either without it....unless we are on duty. And even then the department must buy and issue it.

 

[Crackerjaxon]

Since the 2nd Amendment also pertains to the Militia, both organized and unorganized your point is meaningless. As a Militia the people need to have the same carry capacity as the military. Which is 30 rounds for the supposed assault weapons.

Yeah. Thats what South Carolina is trying to argue. But, to have the same capability as the military, we'd have to give every trailor park Bubba and section-8 Jerome the ability to own an RPG and some hand grenades. As a former cop, I say PLEASE GOD do not give the people in those communities that type of weaponry. They do enough damage with the bullshit High Point 9's.

As a former cop, you reveal yourself to be a classist asshole.

Congratulations.

 

[bucs90]

I wouldn't know.

What I do know is that I carry 31 rounds with me whenever I leave the house. Even if I am just going to Wal*Mart.

You create your own dragons, and then you live in fear of them.

People like you--that feel compelled to "protect" themselves with crazy amounts of firearms and ammunition--live in fear of things that other people never, ever worry over.

If I could give you meaningful advice, it would be to rid yourself of the "armor" you hide inside. Become a free person and get rid of your "protection." Meet the world as it is, and don't worry so much about being harmed.

If you walk as a free person, you will be much happier and free of fear.

Those dragons do exist. We are just lucky that our military and police are willing to pick up a gun and keep them at bay.....thus allowing you to live free of fear of them.

 

[martybegan]

Yeah. Thats what South Carolina is trying to argue. But, to have the same capability as the military, we'd have to give every trailor park Bubba and section-8 Jerome the ability to own an RPG and some hand grenades. As a former cop, I say PLEASE GOD do not give the people in those communities that type of weaponry. They do enough damage with the bullshit High Point 9's.

"As a former cop." That is the crux of the issue. You probably assume any restriction we would have to live with would not apply to you due to your "in" with local law enforcement.

My question to you is: Would you live with the restrictions put in place for other citizens, or would you expect an "out" due to your former status as a peace officer?

The only "out" cops and former cops have is the Patriot Act allows all cops and former cops to carry concealed (without permit) nationwide, anywhere except military bases and courts. I guess the reasoning is that they know cops have the safety and tactical training to act should a terror attack or mass shooting break out. BUT, I think the same rule should apply to former military members, or at least certain military jobs or ranks (not sure, military guys could add better info on this).

But as for all other gun laws, cops aren't exempt. We cant have a full auto M4 without the stamp, just like you cant either without it....unless we are on duty. And even then the department must buy and issue it.

I disagree with that part of the law. Once you are no longer a police officer, or even off duty you should have to conform to the exact same laws the rest of us have to follow. On Duty you can be issued whatever is needed, but at the end of the day (in new york) you should have to put it in the armory, and slap on that 7 shot pea shooter everyone else is allowed to carry.

 

[Duped]

Better safe than sorry! Flash mobs come in numbers far greater than 20. If there is a riot I could see a need
for many more rounds than that. There is always a first time for everything - as the saying goes.

I don't know the answer to your question, but I'm sure that somewhere it has occurred.

 

[Freemason9]

There's a lot of fear out there, and I'm sorry that it engulfs you in such a way.

 

[bucs90]

Since the 2nd Amendment also pertains to the Militia, both organized and unorganized your point is meaningless. As a Militia the people need to have the same carry capacity as the military. Which is 30 rounds for the supposed assault weapons.

Yeah. Thats what South Carolina is trying to argue. But, to have the same capability as the military, we'd have to give every trailor park Bubba and section-8 Jerome the ability to own an RPG and some hand grenades. As a former cop, I say PLEASE GOD do not give the people in those communities that type of weaponry. They do enough damage with the bullshit High Point 9's.

As a former cop, you reveal yourself to be a classist asshole.

Congratulations.

I've been called 1,000 things worse.

But do you have anything meaninful to contribute to the conversation?

 

[Spoonman]

Better safe than sorry! Flash mobs come in numbers far greater than 20. If there is a riot I could see a need
for many more rounds than that. There is always a first time for everything - as the saying goes.

I don't know the answer to your question, but I'm sure that somewhere it has occurred.

yep, times are changing. Flashmobs, gang warfare. this is no longer just about your conventional burglar looking ot steal a little jewelry while you're out

 

[Spoonman]

There's a lot of fear out there, and I'm sorry that it engulfs you in such a way.

really, all these anti gun nuts are so paranoid. it is truly amazing

 

[Crackerjaxon]

Yeah. Thats what South Carolina is trying to argue. But, to have the same capability as the military, we'd have to give every trailor park Bubba and section-8 Jerome the ability to own an RPG and some hand grenades. As a former cop, I say PLEASE GOD do not give the people in those communities that type of weaponry. They do enough damage with the bullshit High Point 9's.

As a former cop, you reveal yourself to be a classist asshole.

Congratulations.

I've been called 1,000 things worse.

But do you have anything meaninful to contribute to the conversation?

Do you consider your classist bullshit to be of value to this conversation?

You didn't get the message.

It isn't. No one cares what you think of certain segments of the citizenry and why you think they should be denied their constitutional rights.

If you think that's germane to the conversation, think again,

 

[bucs90]

"As a former cop." That is the crux of the issue. You probably assume any restriction we would have to live with would not apply to you due to your "in" with local law enforcement.

My question to you is: Would you live with the restrictions put in place for other citizens, or would you expect an "out" due to your former status as a peace officer?

The only "out" cops and former cops have is the Patriot Act allows all cops and former cops to carry concealed (without permit) nationwide, anywhere except military bases and courts. I guess the reasoning is that they know cops have the safety and tactical training to act should a terror attack or mass shooting break out. BUT, I think the same rule should apply to former military members, or at least certain military jobs or ranks (not sure, military guys could add better info on this).

But as for all other gun laws, cops aren't exempt. We cant have a full auto M4 without the stamp, just like you cant either without it....unless we are on duty. And even then the department must buy and issue it.

I disagree with that part of the law. Once you are no longer a police officer, or even off duty you should have to conform to the exact same laws the rest of us have to follow. On Duty you can be issued whatever is needed, but at the end of the day (in new york) you should have to put it in the armory, and slap on that 7 shot pea shooter everyone else is allowed to carry.

Yeah, Im torn on it too. I saw a lot of guys come and go, do 2-4 years as a cop, and get out because they simply had no business doing that job. But once they left, they are "former cops" and can carry. I'd be ok with retired cops, who did their 25 years. They are a bit more trustworthy.

I see the approach that with the modern day in age, we have terrorism and crazy ass idiots out there, so while the cops are minutes away, maybe some former cops are nearby. But, like I said, our ex-military guys should have the same right. AND, I would not be against a National Concealed Carry Permit, which would have a much lengthier process and training requirement for private citizens, sort of like a mini-boot camp or police academy, 2-5 weeks or something.

 

[tjvh]

Has a policeman ever fired more than 20 rounds in self-defense? Ever?

Yes. More times than I can link. The most famous is probably the North Hollywood shootout. The Pittsburgh SWAT team fired THOUSANDS of rounds in the shootout a few years ago. Several incidents here in South Carolina come to mind, including the Rock Hill bank robbery where they shot it out with a gun armed with a full auto AK. There is a key difference in police shootings. As the study says, most bad guys RUN when shot back at (cowards). But the police chase them to finish the job. Private citizens dont.

BTW, Im NOT for banning 30 round mags. But I love debate, and I cant find a single example to justify the true need for a private citizen to have one.

It is a virtual certainty that in a self defense situation, you'll likely need only 2-5 shots max, and the perp is likely dead or running at that point.

And civilians were shot in the North Hollywood shootout. Do you contend the civilians who were shot were better off being unarmed, or limited to 2-5 shots if they were armed in that situation? RIDICULOUS.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Has any private citizen EVER fired more than 20 shots in Self-Defense? EVER?

I fail to see why it even matters.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Why is it anyone's business if you or I shoot 1 or 100 shots in self defense?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I want some facts and truthiness. Has ANY private citizen (not a cop, solider, militia, security guard)....EVER needed more than 20 shots for any single incident of self-defense? I tried researching it, and I cant fine a single incident. Ever. I found one website with a lot of good stats from the NRA's own sources: The Thinking Gunfighter: Self Defense Findings

How many self defense situations required a "reload"? : About 1/2 of 1% it says, so, 0.5%.

How many shots are fired by the defender? : In most cases, about 2. Yes, TWO.

The average number of shots fired by the defender? 2. The median? 2.

It says the majority of cases where more than 2 were fired were the defender simply shooting the gun until empty, out of reaction, not necessity.

Out 482 shooting incidents studied (By the NRA), only 3 required a reload. 1 of the 3 was to kill a Lion (like the cat) who escaped, and a large cal revolver was used, needing 13 shots to kill the animal.

The largest number of "attackers" reported, across the country, was 7...where 7 men tried to do a home invasion. The home owner fought them off, killed 2, wounded 1................with a SHOTGUN.

Im trying to find an example. And I cant. I cant find one single example of a private citizen needing a 30 round magazine to fight off intruders or attackers. Not one. Not one single incident. In fact, every single incident seems that a 15 round magazine would be PLENTY to get the job done....yep, even if the attacker is an African Lion.

Im a gun rights supporter, but I also try to see both sides of all issues. Well....Im having trouble justifying the need for 30, 45, 50, or 100 round magazines in the hands of private citizens. Should they be banned? I dont think so. It wouldnt change anything except add more work for the understaffed PD's to enforce yet another law. But, is there a justified NEED for them? Absolutely not.

Yes.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Has a policeman ever fired more than 20 rounds in self-defense? Ever?

Two of them managed to fire more than 40 shots at two unarmed women earlier this month.

 

[asaratis]

I wouldn't know.

What I do know is that I carry 31 rounds with me whenever I leave the house. Even if I am just going to Wal*Mart.

Can I respectfully ask why?

I carry a Smith and Wesson M&P compact .40. 10 rounds. I have an extra 10 round mag in the truck, with an extra box of ammo (not loaded, dont want the spring to wear down). I've never felt under-armed for what I may realistically face (although unlikely).

I can carry two extra mags in the holster, so I do.

Just as when I get in the car, my gun comes out of the holster and under the handtowel I keep on the passenger seat. When I park the car, the gun goes back in the holster.

I won't get caught not being able to reach my gun again.

I often carry one from room to room when at home....don't wanna be caught with my pants down!

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I wouldn't know.

What I do know is that I carry 31 rounds with me whenever I leave the house. Even if I am just going to Wal*Mart.

I would call you part of the problem and not the solution, then. Why do you need a gun to go to Walmart? Where do you live? Azerbaijan? Somalia? Syria?

Or are you just a paranoid freak like Adam Lanza and Christopher Dorner?

You were never a boyscout. I carry a knife everywhere I go, even to WalMart. Does that make me a paranoid axe murderer?

 

[Bigfoot]

Has a policeman ever fired more than 20 rounds in self-defense? Ever?

Yep.

 

[asaratis]

I wouldn't know.

What I do know is that I carry 31 rounds with me whenever I leave the house. Even if I am just going to Wal*Mart.

Can I respectfully ask why?

I carry a Smith and Wesson M&P compact .40. 10 rounds. I have an extra 10 round mag in the truck, with an extra box of ammo (not loaded, dont want the spring to wear down). I've never felt under-armed for what I may realistically face (although unlikely).

I've heard the spring question many times. It doesn't hurt to keep the clip loaded full. Just shoot all the rounds out every now and then.