Meriweather
Not all who wander are lost
- Oct 21, 2014
- 17,345
- 3,578
- 165
The point: Choosing being apart from God, is just that. No Dante's Inferno.No one chooses to be in hell or "apart from God" if that entails hell.
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature currently requires accessing the site using the built-in Safari browser.
The point: Choosing being apart from God, is just that. No Dante's Inferno.No one chooses to be in hell or "apart from God" if that entails hell.
Being apart from God according to Christianity is torment and suffering. No one chooses that, so your point is moot. Your sophistry and eclectic new-age gobbledygook don't work with me. Try it on someone else. No one chooses to be tormented for all eternity.The point: Choosing being apart from God, is just that. No Dante's Inferno.
A Catholic following the Catechism of the Catholic Church knows the Church teaches God sends no one to hell; that it is the individual that chooses an existence apart from God. Nothing "New Age"...it's been the teaching for decades.That's what the NT teaches, but of course, you're an eclectic, "new agey" Christian, pretending everyone can go to heaven without being born again in Jesus or even after rejecting the Christian gospel.
Doesn't say "condemned to hell" though, does it, so condemned to what? Condemned to following the Law, condemned to continuing to offer sacrifices/pay for their sins to be forgiven? Christ said his with his way the yoke was easy, the burden light. Condemned to a harder way with a heavier burden? Dante's Inferno was centuries into the future.Those who don't believe are condemned already
That's nonsense. The Catholics believe God sends people to hell, not people sending themselves to hell. No one chooses to go to hell and get barbecued (i.e. tortured) for all eternity, they are forced there due to rejecting Christianity, or for some other reason, but not out of choice.A Catholic following the Catechism of the Catholic Church knows the Church teaches God sends no one to hell; that it is the individual that chooses an existence apart from God. Nothing "New Age"...it's been the teaching for decades.
Attended Catholic School in the 1960s; taught it was a choice.The Catholics believe God sends people to hell
Nice try, but that's not what being condemned entails. Those verses imply that the one condemned, rejected Jesus (not believing in his name) on the grounds of loving and doing evil:Doesn't say "condemned to hell" though, does it, so condemned to what? Condemned to following the Law, condemned to continuing to offer sacrifices/pay for their sins to be forgiven? Christ said his with his way the yoke was easy, the burden light. Condemned to a harder way with a heavier burden? Dante's Inferno was centuries into the future.
More sophistry. Sure it's a choice to be a Christian or not, but it's also assumed by the same people who say salvation is a "choice" that people choose to go to hell. The reality is that no one chooses hell, that's just a cheap, silly response. Hell or damnation is forced upon the wicked or those who don't believe in Jesus as their Lord and Savior. I can accept this provided the person was given ample opportunity to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior and hell isn't eternal torture. If hell or the second death is annihilation or oblivion (God forgetting you forever), then I can accept that. I can't accept God torturing people forever, that's nonsense and sadistic. God isn't a sadist.Attended Catholic School in the 1960s; taught it was a choice.
The point is that it does not mean total annihilation. It is a judgment, and sometimes a punishment or discipline for a time. Having to follow the Law, paying a price for forgiveness, lack of graces, not being filled with the Holy Spirit, might be such a punishment or discipline. What would other suitable punishment might God levy?but that's not what being condemned entails
Not Catholic teaching or belief.Hell or damnation is forced upon the wicked or those who don't believe in Jesus as their Lord and Savior.
Not Catholic teaching or belief.
1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire." The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs. |
1033 We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: "He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."612 Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren.613 To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell."You're ignorant of Catholicism. Catholicism doesn't assert that people choose hell but rather are condemned to hell by God.
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
SECOND EDITION
1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire." The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.
Catechism of the Catholic Church - Paragraph # 1035
www.scborromeo.org
That's clearly not a choice.
Your version of hell is unbiblical and ridiculous. It clearly states in the verses that I cited and you're ignoring, that those who don't believe will die in their sins and not enter the kingdom of God, so your hippie, eclectic, new-age-Sedona Arizona, attempt to water down hell is pathetic and hence fails.The point is that it does not mean total annihilation. It is a judgment, and sometimes a punishment or discipline for a time. Having to follow the Law, paying a price for forgiveness, lack of graces, not being filled with the Holy Spirit, might be such a punishment or discipline. What would other suitable punishment might God levy?
Exactly, that's the absurdity of your version of Christianity and spirituality. People supposedly choose hell rather than God. The reality is that people behave according to their human nature, and no one chooses to spend eternity in a state of utter torment. They reject your religion, its doctrines, and your Catholic or Christian opinion about God, but not God.1033 We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: "He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."612 Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren.613 To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell."
You're ignorant of Catholicism.
Any particular reason for excluding Paragraphs 1033, 1034, 1036, 1037?1035
Not asking for it. What they say has been already been summarized.I'm not chasing after your references
Any particular reason for excluding Paragraphs 1033, 1034, 1036, 1037?
They do when they can't tolerate God's love.Exactly, that's the absurdity of your version of Christianity and spirituality. People supposedly choose hell rather than God. The reality is that people behave according to their human nature, and no one chooses to spend eternity in a state of utter torment. They reject your religion, its doctrines, and your Catholic or Christian opinion about God, but not God.
People don't know God, although they would like to if they had a chance. Not agreeing with Christians or Christian doctrine, Christianity, isn't the equivalent of choosing hell. Having premarital sex, isn't the equivalent of choosing to be tortured in hell for all eternity or not having a relationship with God. So you're confused and your silly sophistry, play on words, doesn't impress me. When someone sins, they're not choosing hell or rejecting God, they're just dealing with hormones, a hostile environment that is constantly bombarding them with messages, images, impressions..etc, that can agitate the mind, the person's animal instincts.
To say that people choose to be excluded or "self-exclusion" from God is nonsense. No one in their right mind, chooses to be separated from God or to go to hell for all eternity. That's just philosophical gibberish. Gobbledygook.
What do you mean by "tolerating" God's love? Define what people aren't tolerating about God's love.They do when they can't tolerate God's love.