Heating and AC , You're screwed

[Wolfstrike]

I didn't even realize...

I guess this January the government , with their "efficiency" BS , made 14 SEER heating and air conditioning the minimum which can be sold in the U.S.

One of the manufacturers told us they are barley scraping by making 14 SEER equipment, if the government raises the minimum to 15 SEER (which I think they are already planning to do) then we're talking about high efficiency motors. In my area high efficiency motors average $1500.

The high efficiency equipment designers have a habit of placing several circuit boards into one system. circuit boards are $400 to $800. Many go out without any reason.

Like everything else, the government is going to save you 5 bucks on your monthly bill , but send the money back to the economy with high repair costs.





By-the-way, I heard something about a new refrigerant for cars, R1234 , currently selling for $1000 per jug

 

[bripat9643]

I didn't even realize...

I guess this January the government , with their "efficiency" BS , made 14 SEER heating and air conditioning the minimum which can be sold in the U.S.

One of the manufacturers told us they are barley scraping by making 14 SEER equipment, if the government raises the minimum to 15 SEER (which I think they are already planning to do) then we're talking about high efficiency motors. In my area high efficiency motors average $1500.

The high efficiency equipment designers have a habit of placing several circuit boards into one system. circuit boards are $400 to $800. Many go out without any reason.

Like everything else, the government is going to save you 5 bucks on your monthly bill , but send the money back to the economy with high repair costs.





By-the-way, I heard something about a new refrigerant for cars, R1234 , currently selling for $1000 per jug

Trump will put a stop to that.

These imbecile regulations are one of the main reasons the economy is growing so slowly.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Order online like the pros. My furnace is old and the circuit board besides failing had been redone twice. Was lucky to find one. Cost..$115. The local supply store was marking it up 150%.......About 3 yrs ago when I had it inspected I was quoted a grand so I figure HVAC dude pumped it another 100% and then rest was labor. Brother in law put it in for free. Don't doubt what ya say though...My brother was told refrigs only designed to last 10 yrs. The money we spend replacing stuff that the folks bought and it lasted forever is ridiculous.

 

[depotoo]

Yep, and with each change the costs go up for the new mixed freon. New instrumentation as all has to be tested when reclaimed and returned, which will also get passed on to the end consumer.

 

[depotoo]

Let's hope he does.

I didn't even realize...

I guess this January the government , with their "efficiency" BS , made 14 SEER heating and air conditioning the minimum which can be sold in the U.S.

One of the manufacturers told us they are barley scraping by making 14 SEER equipment, if the government raises the minimum to 15 SEER (which I think they are already planning to do) then we're talking about high efficiency motors. In my area high efficiency motors average $1500.

The high efficiency equipment designers have a habit of placing several circuit boards into one system. circuit boards are $400 to $800. Many go out without any reason.

Like everything else, the government is going to save you 5 bucks on your monthly bill , but send the money back to the economy with high repair costs.





By-the-way, I heard something about a new refrigerant for cars, R1234 , currently selling for $1000 per jug

Trump will put a stop to that.

These imbecile regulations are one of the main reasons the economy is growing so slowly.

 

[Flopper]

I didn't even realize...

I guess this January the government , with their "efficiency" BS , made 14 SEER heating and air conditioning the minimum which can be sold in the U.S.

One of the manufacturers told us they are barley scraping by making 14 SEER equipment, if the government raises the minimum to 15 SEER (which I think they are already planning to do) then we're talking about high efficiency motors. In my area high efficiency motors average $1500.

The high efficiency equipment designers have a habit of placing several circuit boards into one system. circuit boards are $400 to $800. Many go out without any reason.

Like everything else, the government is going to save you 5 bucks on your monthly bill , but send the money back to the economy with high repair costs.





By-the-way, I heard something about a new refrigerant for cars, R1234 , currently selling for $1000 per jug

Have faith. Trump hopes to abolish the EPA and a/c manufactures and other industries can do anything they want to the environment and long after Trump is gone we will be paying the price.

 

[HaShev]

Exactly, turns out the supposed safer refrigerant was not more efficient or so safe and newer systems have been having issues quicker then then the former.
My suggestion is to buy the older refrigerant on Amazon $27-$30 a can not 100 from AC co and have your certified AC friend or company fill the system this at least saves 50% + on the freon costs as the A/C guy doubles or more the already excessive cost of freon.
Or if you have some experience from car freon installations learn home AC on Youtube get a license $50-$65 and do it yourself.
All you need are cheap leak detectors under $20. and metalic bonding compound to repair found leaks, manifolds (pressure reader) under $30 that read your type of freon, and a temp gauge for the hi and lo line.

 

[flacaltenn]

I didn't even realize...

I guess this January the government , with their "efficiency" BS , made 14 SEER heating and air conditioning the minimum which can be sold in the U.S.

One of the manufacturers told us they are barley scraping by making 14 SEER equipment, if the government raises the minimum to 15 SEER (which I think they are already planning to do) then we're talking about high efficiency motors. In my area high efficiency motors average $1500.

The high efficiency equipment designers have a habit of placing several circuit boards into one system. circuit boards are $400 to $800. Many go out without any reason.

Like everything else, the government is going to save you 5 bucks on your monthly bill , but send the money back to the economy with high repair costs.





By-the-way, I heard something about a new refrigerant for cars, R1234 , currently selling for $1000 per jug

Tell me about it. I've just done a project for a client to improve the Heat Strip efficiency that's used for "emergency back-up".. And I KNOW that my 12 Seer bottom floor unit is completely fagged out anytime it's below freezing out. Nothing like Govt logic of making fans/compressors run ALL DAY by lowering the energy used..

Below 30 degF outside, the unit runs CONSTANTLY and loses ground until the 10KWatt electric heat strips finally kick in and suck the juice right out of the power company..

It's madness. Sheer madness. With a little bit of fraud and hubris mixed in... .

 

[flacaltenn]

Kinda like the Govt logic in Mandating low flow toilets that you have to flush twice. Or outlawing incandescents that actually were 100% efficient in the seasons where your HVAC was on Heat cycles. Because the "waste heat" from the bulbs reduced the demand on the HVAC..

 

[Wolfstrike]

The local supply store was marking it up 150%........

supply houses actually charge a big mark-up to AC companies, because we need parts asap

 

[flacaltenn]

Or the low-juice LED traffic lights they installed widespread in Minnesota and Wisconsin that got completely covered in snow and ice BECAUSE there was not "wasted heat"... Had to install heaters. True story..

 

[Wolfstrike]

Kinda like the Govt logic in Mandating low flow toilets that you have to flush twice. Or outlawing incandescents that actually were 100% efficient in the seasons where your HVAC was on Heat cycles. Because the "waste heat" from the bulbs reduced the demand on the HVAC..

I know. it's all BS

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I didn't even realize...

I guess this January the government , with their "efficiency" BS , made 14 SEER heating and air conditioning the minimum which can be sold in the U.S.

One of the manufacturers told us they are barley scraping by making 14 SEER equipment, if the government raises the minimum to 15 SEER (which I think they are already planning to do) then we're talking about high efficiency motors. In my area high efficiency motors average $1500.

The high efficiency equipment designers have a habit of placing several circuit boards into one system. circuit boards are $400 to $800. Many go out without any reason.

Like everything else, the government is going to save you 5 bucks on your monthly bill , but send the money back to the economy with high repair costs.





By-the-way, I heard something about a new refrigerant for cars, R1234 , currently selling for $1000 per jug

They don't care about costs as long as it serves their purpose.

Nobody knows this more than us in the transportation field.

During the Bush years, they forced the transportation industry to use low-sulfur fuel. Prior to that, diesel fuel was always cheaper than gasoline. After the regulation went into effect, diesel fuel surpassed the cost of gasoline; sometimes more than a dollar per gallon. But that wasn't enough.....

They also forced truck manufacturers to install thousands of dollars of "green" technologies into their vehicles. One in particular is Diesel Emission Fluid, or DEF for short. All trucks manufactured after 2010 had to have DEF systems on them. Makes you wonder how many EPA heads and Congress critters had investments in DEF companies?

But the costs of DEF and multiple computers in new trucks was just the beginning of new costs. Now, trucks breakdown ten times more often than they used to, 80% of the problems are associated with some pollution gadget going haywire.

Yes, we pay these costs up front, but who ultimately pays these costs in the end? That's right, we increase the cost of doing business to our customers who manufacture products we buy every day. From sofas to televisions, from computers to carpeting, from grapes in the grocery store to paint at your hardware store. Everything we buy today has these additional environmental costs that the transportation companies have to pass on to the rest of us.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Or the low-juice LED traffic lights they installed widespread in Minnesota and Wisconsin that got completely covered in snow and ice BECAUSE there was not "wasted heat"... Had to install heaters. True story..

Oh! You mean those traffic lights that you can't see on sunny days? We have them here too!

 

[flacaltenn]

Or the low-juice LED traffic lights they installed widespread in Minnesota and Wisconsin that got completely covered in snow and ice BECAUSE there was not "wasted heat"... Had to install heaters. True story..

Oh! You mean those traffic lights that you can't see on sunny days? We have them here too!

That's a different issue. It's hard to spread the light from tiny LED point sources without fancier optics. So you go to extremes to get all the angles covered. But still I notice in the dark when the wind is blowing that the cone of light is nowhere NEAR as uniform as it was with incandescents. Those things must cost more than a car now...

 

[Marion Morrison]

I didn't even realize...

I guess this January the government , with their "efficiency" BS , made 14 SEER heating and air conditioning the minimum which can be sold in the U.S.

One of the manufacturers told us they are barley scraping by making 14 SEER equipment, if the government raises the minimum to 15 SEER (which I think they are already planning to do) then we're talking about high efficiency motors. In my area high efficiency motors average $1500.

The high efficiency equipment designers have a habit of placing several circuit boards into one system. circuit boards are $400 to $800. Many go out without any reason.

Like everything else, the government is going to save you 5 bucks on your monthly bill , but send the money back to the economy with high repair costs.





By-the-way, I heard something about a new refrigerant for cars, R1234 , currently selling for $1000 per jug

All the 14-SEER units have too many electronics and circuit boards in them that fail long before mechanical parts do.

If the wrong one fails, the whole unit can be toast.

AC guys are not fans of 14-16 SEER units. A lot of times they have to call the manufacturer.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Or the low-juice LED traffic lights they installed widespread in Minnesota and Wisconsin that got completely covered in snow and ice BECAUSE there was not "wasted heat"... Had to install heaters. True story..

Oh! You mean those traffic lights that you can't see on sunny days? We have them here too!

That's a different issue. It's hard to spread the light from tiny LED point sources without fancier optics. So you go to extremes to get all the angles covered. But still I notice in the dark when the wind is blowing that the cone of light is nowhere NEAR as uniform as it was with incandescents. Those things must cost more than a car now...

It's a solution looking for a problem. As far as snow goes, nobody knows more about that problem than us up north by the great lakes. After they realized the failures of these lights, they started taking them down and replacing them with normal traffic lights. But what the hell......... it's our tax money so nobody cares about the costs.

 

[BULLDOG]

Exactly, turns out the supposed safer refrigerant was not more efficient or so safe and newer systems have been having issues quicker then then the former.
My suggestion is to buy the older refrigerant on Amazon $27-$30 a can not 100 from AC co and have your certified AC friend or company fill the system this at least saves 50% + on the freon costs as the A/C guy doubles or more the already excessive cost of freon.
Or if you have some experience from car freon installations learn home AC on Youtube get a license $50-$65 and do it yourself.
All you need are cheap leak detectors under $20. and metalic bonding compound to repair found leaks, manifolds (pressure reader) under $30 that read your type of freon, and a temp gauge for the hi and lo line.

Great idea. I think I'll also check on the DIY appendectomy kit too. What could go wrong?

 

[mamooth]

Oh look, a thread of ludditers tossing out alarmist rumors to push a political agenda. How quaint.

Diesels? The crazies have screamed about every upgrade since forever. The result? Efficient, powerful, low pollution engines. If it were up to the luddites, every truck would still be fuel-guzzling fume-belching monster.

Cars? The same screams of doom with every upgrade. The same result, far better engines. In the dream days of the luddites, engines didn't last to 100,000. Now they'll always last to 200,000 or more.

They screamed about light bulbs. The new light bulbs are a raging success. Flac here is even demanding hot light bulbs be used as heaters for the winter, not caring that electric heating is less efficient than a furnace, and apparently thinking we should change out light bulbs seasonally, unless he wants to use them as heaters in summer as well.

Low flow toilets? Just how much shit do you people create? The first gen was a problem, but that was solved 20 years ago. I've never heard of anyone but a conservative having trouble with them now.

They screamed about the loss of R12 freon. Losing it would destroy the economy. It didn't.

Appliances? All more efficient now.

If we had listened to these luddites, our economy would be getting reamed by the inefficient technology wasting massive amounts of energy, on top of environmental damage. And we wouldn't be able to sell the US goods in europe an other markets, so exports would be hammered. It's as if the luddites want to destroy both our economy and our environment.

 

[JBond]

I didn't even realize...

I guess this January the government , with their "efficiency" BS , made 14 SEER heating and air conditioning the minimum which can be sold in the U.S.

One of the manufacturers told us they are barley scraping by making 14 SEER equipment, if the government raises the minimum to 15 SEER (which I think they are already planning to do) then we're talking about high efficiency motors. In my area high efficiency motors average $1500.

The high efficiency equipment designers have a habit of placing several circuit boards into one system. circuit boards are $400 to $800. Many go out without any reason.

Like everything else, the government is going to save you 5 bucks on your monthly bill , but send the money back to the economy with high repair costs.





By-the-way, I heard something about a new refrigerant for cars, R1234 , currently selling for $1000 per jug

Sounds like crap. Maytag products suck.