Zone1 Here Are The Old Testament Passages Describing The Foretold Jewish Messiah

[Cougarbear]

I think it's a mistake to change Jewish scriptures. Further, it creates confusion about Jesus.

Isaiah 53 - A Jewish Perspective

Wasn't the Prophet referring to Jesus in Isaiah 53? Explore the Jewish perspective of a chapter which has become a cornerstone of Christian evangelism to Jews.

jewsforjudaism.org

No one has changed Jewish scripture. And, there is no such thing as "Jewish Scripture." The scriptures are NOT for private interpretations. Here is a good explanation as well as more prophecy of Jesus Christ being the Messiah coming in the future:

John 7:25-27
This is a clear example of a "private interpretation" (II Peter 1:19-21). Nowhere in the Old Testament does it say that no one would know where the Messiah was from. In fact, it says just the opposite! Matthew shows that Micah 5:2 names Bethlehem in Judah as the town in which He would be born, and that Isaiah 9:1-2 identifies Galilee as where He would launch His ministry.

Where did the Jews get such an outrageous, unbiblical idea? It was someone's private opinion that over time had become tradition, an accepted "fact." It became a proverb that is just as true as, "If you touch a toad, you'll get warts."

Is it any wonder that the people argued about Him so much? Earlier in John 7, we see some of this:

And there was much murmuring among the people concerning Him. Some said, "He is good"; others said, "No, on the contrary, He deceives the people."(verse 12)

They had no idea what to expect because they were burdened by their traditional yet wrong understanding about the Messiah.

Richard T. Ritenbaugh

 

[irosie91]

Christianity is the completion of Judaism.

I am familiar with the BS---I grew up in a christian town

 

[Cougarbear]

I am familiar with the BS---I grew up in a christian town

My Hebrew name given to me by my parents and rabbi is Smuel Uri. God is light. I can testify that I know for 100% that Jesus Christ is the Messiah, Lord of Hosts, the Son of God and is our Savior who atoned for our sins. 100% sure. No BS. Perhaps you should ask Father in Heaven if he has a Son, Jesus Christ instead of being bullheaded.

 

[fncceo]

Christianity is the completion of Judaism.

Completion, corruption ...

To-MAY-to, To-MAH-to.

 

[fncceo]

Jesus Christ is the Messiah, Lord of Hosts, the Son of God and is our Savior who atoned for our sins.

Too long for a business card.

 

[sparky]

~S~

 

[Cougarbear]

Too long for a business card.

But not for an unrepentant sinner

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Dang. Jesus was a horrible messiah.

Render Therefore Unto Caesar

That's why the Jews rejected his pacifist and escapist response to Roman occupation and the Empire's introduction of pagan gods and decadent culture.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

There is more to the Messiah's works. He did not come 2000 years ago to do those things. He came to atone for Adam's sins and to lead us back by way of the resurrection. Zechariah chapter's 12 - 14 show the Messiah coming back, parting the Mount of Olives, standing in the midst of the opening with the people surrounding Him as he shows the wounds in His hands and feet. This is his coming in power and authority. But first, He had to receive those wounds through crucifixion and die first in order to be resurrected. Thus, there were two comings of the Lord. Are you ready for the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ?

Johnny Come Lately

Why didn't the Son of God come down to atone for man's sins back in Noah's time, instead of letting practically the whole human race drown in the Flood for their own sins? Maybe Jesus was his suicidal brother; that's as good an explanation as any other that's preached.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

nope----you are confused----as are ALL PEOPLE---by Hebrew grammar. One issue that confuses
you is that the plural is used as a superlative. (hebrew grammar <<<OY VEH)

"We Are Not Amused": Queen Victoria

Or it's the famous "royal we."

 

[Cougarbear]

Johnny Come Lately

Why didn't the Son of God come down to atone for man's sins back in Noah's time, instead of letting practically the whole human race drown in the Flood for their own sins? Maybe Jesus was his suicidal brother; that's as good an explanation as any other that's preached.

Gets back to the purpose of all of us coming to the earth in the first place. John 3:12-13, "12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." What is the heavenly thing in #13? It's that not only did Jesus come from Heaven, so did all of mankind as well. We as spirit bodies lived with Heavenly Father and descended into our earthly bodies. One of the reasons we came was to simply receive a physical body so in the future, we can be resurrected with our spirit bodies as Jesus did. As Paul wrote in First Corinthians chapter 15, our resurrected bodies will have 3 possibilities based on our lives here on earth. Celestial Glory, Terrestrial Glory and Telestial Glory. Which one will partially depend on how we respond to each test in life of choosing between Good or Evil. This is one of the great gifts is that we have our free moral agency to choose good or evil. That leads into the answer of your question.

See, even if Jehovah had descended right after Adam and Eve left the Garden and before there was in in the world (impossible to begin with) then what sin would Jesus have been dying for and who would have sinned to kill him? Adam and Eve? Hardly. That's one reason that it didn't matter if he came the day before Noah's Flood or when he actually came to atone for the sins of mankind. So, why did the Lord have to flood the earth and wipe all of mankind off the earth? Same reason he did so with Sodom and Gomorrah and the city of Enoch. The way he did was different is all. The reason is that the right of people to choose good or evil no longer was available. Only Evil when it came to Sodom, Gomorrah and the people of the earth before the Flood of Noah. He could no longer send His brother's and sisters down to earth because the atonement would never be able to be applied as no one had the choice anymore. Same was true for the righteous city of Enoch. They were all at the point of righteousness that there was no longer any choice of evil. Instead of destroying the people because of unrighteousness evil, the Lord raised the entire city back to Heaven into Paradise. Perhaps that was when Paradise was first created.

A choice to contemplate. Do you still have a choice to accept the God of Heaven and Earth and keep the commandments or do you in vain condemn and reject the God of Heaven and Earth and keep not the commandments?

 

[HaShev]

They did exactly what the Prophets said they would do, reject him, torture him and murder him.

Those verses are about Israel, mentioned as such 14 times in the context, nowhere do the prophets say the actual Moshiach fails, only the first fallen imposter fails to HaShev (deliver/restore/place back/Return)
Jesus was no HaShev.

 

[BS Filter]

Those verses are about Israel, mentioned as such 14 times in the context, nowhere do the prophets say the actual Moshiach fails, only the first fallen imposter fails to HaShev (deliver/restore/place back/Return)
Jesus was no HaShev.

That's the interpretation of those who rejected Jesus. I understand that. That's why many didn't recognize Him then and now. Paul explained it perfectly.

 

[Cougarbear]

Those verses are about Israel, mentioned as such 14 times in the context, nowhere do the prophets say the actual Moshiach fails, only the first fallen imposter fails to HaShev (deliver/restore/place back/Return)
Jesus was no HaShev.

Actually the scriptures do. It’s Judah, or most of them, reject the prophet’s messianic messages. Chapter 53 pronouns are singular, not all of Israel or even just Judah. This is about one individual who has taken on our sins and was rejected by those in the house of his friends as Zechariah stated the Lord said.

 

[rosends]

Actually the scriptures do. It’s Judah, or most of them, reject the prophet’s messianic messages. Chapter 53 pronouns are singular, not all of Israel or even just Judah. This is about one individual who has taken on our sins and was rejected by those in the house of his friends as Zechariah stated the Lord said.

It's actually not and the use of the singular to refer to the collective nation is well established in biblical text. The entirety of the book makes it clear what servant is being spoken of ("But, you Israel, are My servant; Jacob, whom I have chosen; seed of Abraham, My friend.") If you follow the pronouns and the subjects precisely, the chapter (though chapter divisions are a late and non-Jewish creation) is clear about who is speaking and what is being said about the nation of Israel.

----------------------
For you will not depart in haste, ***** God speaks to the Jews through the prophet

Nor will you leave in flight; ***** same “you” – the nation of Jews

For the LORD is marching before you, ***** The prophet describes God’s relationship to Jews

The God of Israel is your rear guard.*****

“Indeed, My servant shall prosper, ***** God describes that same relationship as the Jews

Be exalted and raised to great heights. ***** Are his servant

Just as the many were appalled at him -- ***** the servant/him is described by God. The many (the

So marred was his appearance, unlike that of man, ***** other people of the world) looked at the Jews this way

His form, beyond human semblance—׃*****

Just so he shall startle many nations. ***** Also entire other nations will see him/servant this way

Kings shall be silenced because of him, *****

For they shall see what has not been told them, ***** Other kings will see what they can’t believe

Shall behold what they never have heard.”*****

“Who can believe what we have heard? ***** The kings speak, wondering about the unbelieveable

Upon whom has the arm of the LORD--a been revealed? ***** Asking about the state of the Jews

For he has grown, by His favor, like a tree crown, ***** the same subject – him/servant/Jews is described by

Like a tree trunk out of arid ground. ***** The same foreign kings who marvel at the situation

He had no form or beauty, that we should look at him: ***** the “we” is the kings who are being quoted

No charm, that we should find him pleasing. ***** The “him” is still the nation, the Jews, God’s servant

He was despised, shunned by men, ***** The kings realize how the Jews were shunned

A man of suffering, familiar with disease. ***** And how they suffered

As one who hid his face from us, ***** Like someone so ashamed he hid himself

He was despised, we held him of no account. ***** “we” (the foreign nations) considered him lowly

Yet it was our sickness that he was bearing, ***** But the whole time, say the kings, he was suffering

Our suffering that he endured. ***** As a replacement for what we deserved to suffer

We accounted him plagued, ***** We just thought God was being mean to him

Smitten and afflicted by God;*****

But he was wounded because of our sins, ***** but it wasn’t mean-ness. It was God making him pay

Crushed because of our iniquities. ***** For what WE (foreign nations) did

He bore the chastisement that made us whole, ***** we stayed whole while and BECAUSE the Jews paid for it

And by his bruises we were healed. ***** And through the Jews’ suffering, the nations stayed well

We all went astray like sheep, ***** We (foreign nations) did bad things

Each going his own way;*****

And the LORD visited upon him ***** and God punished the Jews

The guilt of all of us.”*****

He was maltreated, yet he was submissive, ***** And yet the Jews didn’t complain

He did not open his mouth;*****

Like a sheep being led to slaughter,*****

Like a ewe, dumb before those who shear her,*****

He did not open his mouth.*****

By oppressive judgment he was taken away, ***** He was exiled, taken from his homeland

Who could describe his abode?*****

For he was cut off from the land of the living*****

Through the sin of my people, who deserved the punishment. ***** Because of us.

And his grave was set among the wicked, ***** even in death he was punished

And with the rich, in his death-*****

Though he had done no injustice ***** though he didn’t do wrong

And had spoken no falsehood.*****

But the LORD chose to crush him by disease, ***** God wanted to punish him in this world

That, if he made himself an offering for guilt, ***** so that if he bore it patiently

He might see offspring and have long life, ***** he would see his descendants flourish

And that through him the LORD’s purpose might prosper. ***** And his children carry out God’s plan

Out of his anguish he shall see it; ***** By being willing to suffer, the Jews will see

He shall enjoy it to the full through his devotion. ***** The fruits of devotion later


“My righteous servant makes the many righteous, ***** God, in 1st person, now describes the situation

It is their punishment that he bears; ***** the servant nation bears the foreign nations’ punishment

Assuredly, I will give him the many as his portion, ***** so he will earn a heck of a great reward

He shall receive the multitude as his spoil.*****

For he exposed himself to death*****

And was numbered among the sinners,*****

Whereas he bore the guilt of the many*****

And made intercession for sinners.” ***** The Jews suffered on behalf of others and saved them.

 

[HaShev]

Actually the scriptures do. It’s Judah, or most of them, reject the prophet’s messianic messages. Chapter 53 pronouns are singular, not all of Israel or even just Judah. This is about one individual who has taken on our sins and was rejected by those in the house of his friends as Zechariah stated the Lord said.

But Isaiahs Moshiach is Michael according to The Bible and commentary of that Biblical age by Dead Sea Scrolls on Isaiah. *(Also see my sources below)

You forget to mention Isaiah 53 is "past" tense not future tense & are lied to because much is written plural context being about Israel mentioned 14 times as the servant.
Jesus was popular according to the NT therefore can't be Isaiah's mention of despised without saying the NT lies.
Israel on the other hand fits the "disfigured" (boundries and people during the Holocaust) and "despised" if you were to make everything about future events).
Moshiach lifts the veil from our eyes.-Isaiah 25:7
The Roman created icon made everyone blind, especially to who was behind the curtain pulling the strings speaking through the image and collecting taxes (tithes) through that image.
He'll be of the line of David (Is.11:1)
Jesus who wasn't a singular historical figure was born out a pen so his lineage was not, nor was the lineage they used in passages.
"He will swallow up death forever.
Isaiah 25:8
Jesus did the opposite, he caused his flock and people to be slain and scattered and to this day there are still Christians with life insurance policies, grave yards, and funeral homes.

The Nations will end up recognizing the wrongs they did Israel-Is.52:13-53:12
Jesus did the opposite and helped cause those wrongs.

Isaiah's only mention that resembled Jesus was when he described Nebuchadnezzar in Is14 in which case Rome wrote him in (rev 22:16) as that very same fallen Lucifer (Morning Star)
Isaiah 14:12-19 son of day/ Morning Star was Lucifer.-(prophecy often spoke of the historical knowing we repeat History and resemblances spiritually, so 3 layers the Historical Nebuchadnezzar is described and the repeat History Saddam admittingly trying to emulate Nebuchadnezzar fits the passage of unrecognized disheveled and found in a pit, then the spiritual emulation fitting Jesus death scene and claim to be the nemesis of Shalem (the Evening Star-Michael).

*More Sources Isaiah's Moshiach is Michael:
In 1 Ezra 1:1 it was the Lord (Master/Top/Arch) who stirred up the spirit of Cyrus, king of Persia. Giving him the vision and anointing (Isaiah 45) to give the decree in 538, liberating the Jews who were captive in Babylonia and allowing them to return to their homeland. Cyrus battle was not physical it was spiritually in concious through the messenger Dan describes as Michael in 10:20-21. This proves Moshiach already fulfilled the liberating, gathering and Temple building in those days of old as will be done in our day. This is even backed by the explicit mention that it is "the redeemer" doing these things, per
accounts in Isaiah 44:24-28. Since Dan explicitely reveals Michael dealing with Cyrus,
then Isaiah 44:24-28 is calling Michael the 'redeemer' (HaSheva).
*NOTE DAN reveals the first name, last name, and even nickname of Moshiach not once does he mention Jesus, but the creators of the Jesus character mentions Jesus coming to steal from that very same named Moshiach in Daniel's verses. And at the very end the writers reveal the punchline(Rev 22:16), that they created Jesus to be the adversary of Moshiach aka Lucifer character of the Bible.

 

[HaShev]

That's the interpretation of those who rejected Jesus. I understand that. That's why many didn't recognize Him then and now. Paul explained it perfectly.

Paul was also a converged character based on Pol (Appolonias of Tyana who was also from Tyre), Sergius Paulus who went around with a Benny Hinn type scam act, (a maggis called BarJesus) that Saul called that maggis the son of the devil.
The fleeing out the window to Syria story comes from Appolonias' accounts.
Appolonias also had an extensive library of many cultures mythologies, perhaps where 3/4 the writtings come from some scholars believe...look up Appolonias of Tyana writter of the NT, there's arguments on the topic of who was the source of the NT writting.

 

[HaShev]

Paul was also a converged character based on Pol (Appolonias of Tyana who was also from Tarsus), Sergius Paulus who went around with a Benny Hinn type scam act, (a maggis called BarJesus) that Saul called that maggis the son of the devil.
The fleeing out the window to Syria story comes from Appolonias' accounts.
Appolonias also had an extensive library of many cultures mythologies, perhaps where 3/4 the writtings come from some scholars believe...look up Appolonias of Tyana writter of the NT, there's arguments on the topic of who was the source of the NT writting.

 

[BS Filter]

Paul was also a converged character based on Pol (Appolonias of Tyana who was also from Tyre), Sergius Paulus who went around with a Benny Hinn type scam act, (a maggis called BarJesus) that Saul called that maggis the son of the devil.
The fleeing out the window to Syria story comes from Appolonias' accounts.
Appolonias also had an extensive library of many cultures mythologies, perhaps where 3/4 the writtings come from some scholars believe...look up Appolonias of Tyana writter of the NT, there's arguments on the topic of who was the source of the NT writting.

Lots of arguments, all false.

 

[Cougarbear]

It's actually not and the use of the singular to refer to the collective nation is well established in biblical text. The entirety of the book makes it clear what servant is being spoken of ("But, you Israel, are My servant; Jacob, whom I have chosen; seed of Abraham, My friend.") If you follow the pronouns and the subjects precisely, the chapter (though chapter divisions are a late and non-Jewish creation) is clear about who is speaking and what is being said about the nation of Israel.

----------------------
For you will not depart in haste, ***** God speaks to the Jews through the prophet

Nor will you leave in flight; ***** same “you” – the nation of Jews

For the LORD is marching before you, ***** The prophet describes God’s relationship to Jews

The God of Israel is your rear guard.*****

“Indeed, My servant shall prosper, ***** God describes that same relationship as the Jews

Be exalted and raised to great heights. ***** Are his servant

Just as the many were appalled at him -- ***** the servant/him is described by God. The many (the

So marred was his appearance, unlike that of man, ***** other people of the world) looked at the Jews this way

His form, beyond human semblance—׃*****

Just so he shall startle many nations. ***** Also entire other nations will see him/servant this way

Kings shall be silenced because of him, *****

For they shall see what has not been told them, ***** Other kings will see what they can’t believe

Shall behold what they never have heard.”*****

“Who can believe what we have heard? ***** The kings speak, wondering about the unbelieveable

Upon whom has the arm of the LORD--a been revealed? ***** Asking about the state of the Jews

For he has grown, by His favor, like a tree crown, ***** the same subject – him/servant/Jews is described by

Like a tree trunk out of arid ground. ***** The same foreign kings who marvel at the situation

He had no form or beauty, that we should look at him: ***** the “we” is the kings who are being quoted

No charm, that we should find him pleasing. ***** The “him” is still the nation, the Jews, God’s servant

He was despised, shunned by men, ***** The kings realize how the Jews were shunned

A man of suffering, familiar with disease. ***** And how they suffered

As one who hid his face from us, ***** Like someone so ashamed he hid himself

He was despised, we held him of no account. ***** “we” (the foreign nations) considered him lowly

Yet it was our sickness that he was bearing, ***** But the whole time, say the kings, he was suffering

Our suffering that he endured. ***** As a replacement for what we deserved to suffer

We accounted him plagued, ***** We just thought God was being mean to him

Smitten and afflicted by God;*****

But he was wounded because of our sins, ***** but it wasn’t mean-ness. It was God making him pay

Crushed because of our iniquities. ***** For what WE (foreign nations) did

He bore the chastisement that made us whole, ***** we stayed whole while and BECAUSE the Jews paid for it

And by his bruises we were healed. ***** And through the Jews’ suffering, the nations stayed well

We all went astray like sheep, ***** We (foreign nations) did bad things

Each going his own way;*****

And the LORD visited upon him ***** and God punished the Jews

The guilt of all of us.”*****

He was maltreated, yet he was submissive, ***** And yet the Jews didn’t complain

He did not open his mouth;*****

Like a sheep being led to slaughter,*****

Like a ewe, dumb before those who shear her,*****

He did not open his mouth.*****

By oppressive judgment he was taken away, ***** He was exiled, taken from his homeland

Who could describe his abode?*****

For he was cut off from the land of the living*****

Through the sin of my people, who deserved the punishment. ***** Because of us.

And his grave was set among the wicked, ***** even in death he was punished

And with the rich, in his death-*****

Though he had done no injustice ***** though he didn’t do wrong

And had spoken no falsehood.*****

But the LORD chose to crush him by disease, ***** God wanted to punish him in this world

That, if he made himself an offering for guilt, ***** so that if he bore it patiently

He might see offspring and have long life, ***** he would see his descendants flourish

And that through him the LORD’s purpose might prosper. ***** And his children carry out God’s plan

Out of his anguish he shall see it; ***** By being willing to suffer, the Jews will see

He shall enjoy it to the full through his devotion. ***** The fruits of devotion later


“My righteous servant makes the many righteous, ***** God, in 1st person, now describes the situation

It is their punishment that he bears; ***** the servant nation bears the foreign nations’ punishment

Assuredly, I will give him the many as his portion, ***** so he will earn a heck of a great reward

He shall receive the multitude as his spoil.*****

For he exposed himself to death*****

And was numbered among the sinners,*****

Whereas he bore the guilt of the many*****

And made intercession for sinners.” ***** The Jews suffered on behalf of others and saved them.

Yep, “He” was despised and rejected by the collective people of Judah. “He bore or atoned for our sins. Nowhere does it say “we” or the “Jews” suffered or atoned for the sins of the sinners. Your writers have added to it to attempt to hide the obvious about the Messiah. These are reasons I had to look for real truth and found them in Jesus Christ.