How about another Mandate? (A solutions thread)

[ForeverYoung436]

At least as early as 1922 the Palestinians have demanded independence as Palestinians. Stop with the propaganda, liar.

"PALESTINE.
CORRESPONDENCE WITH THE PALESTINE ARAB
DELEGATION AND THE ZIONIST ORGANISATION.


No. 1.
The Palestine Arab Delegation to the Secretary of State for the Colonies.


HOTEL CECIL,
London, W.C.,
February 21st, 1922.
Sir,
We wish to express our thanks to the Right Honourable the Secretary of State for the Colonies, for his courtesy in allowing us to see the draft of a proposed Palestine Order in Council embodying a scheme of Government for Palestine, and to discuss the same in our capacity of representatives of the Arab People of Palestine.

• 
  
  We would, therefore, submit the following observations:—

Whilst the position in Palestine is, as it stands to-day, with the British Government holding authority by an occupying force, and using that authority to impose upon the people against their wishes a great immigration of alien Jews, many of them of a Bolshevik revolutionary type, no constitution which would fall short of giving the People of Palestine full control of their own affairs could be acceptable.
If the British Government would revise their present policy in Palestine, end the Zionist con-dominium, put a stop to all alien immigration and grant the People of Palestine — who by Right and Experience are the best judges of what is good and bad to their country — Executive and Legislative powers, the terms of a constitution could be discussed in a different atmosphere. If to-day the People of Palestine assented to any constitution which fell short of giving them full control of their own affairs they would be in the position of agreeing to an instrument of Government which might, and probably would, be used to smother their national life under a flood of alien immigration...."

UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization/British policy in Palestine: "Churchill White Paper" - UK documentation Cmd. 1700/Non-UN document (excerpts) (1 July 1922)

Give me a break it's written black on white:

1 . "We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographic bonds. "

3. "In view of the above we desire that one district Southern Syria or Palestine should not be separated from the Independent Arab Syrian Government and to be free from all foreign influence and protection."

First Palestinian Arab Congress

The later congresses saw to fuse the area into another Arab state, the independence of Palestine was not a separate issuse in itself, but the Arab goal of unifying the whole ME under their rule.



The fairytale of 'Palestinian independece'

In 1919 all the recently "liberated" Arabic areas of the Ottoman Empire wanted to form one Arabic state, but as this ran contrary to European Imperial interests (i.e. Sykes-Picot) this was never going to happen. To use 1919 aspirations as an argument that Palestinians never wanted a seperate state is both ridiculous and disingenuous. As the postwar Middle East evolved, so did Palestinian aspirations.

1919- 1st Palestine Congress - official proclamation that 'Palestine is Syria'
1920 - after French took Syria, official proclamation that Palestine should be a Part of a bigger Arab state.
1981 - The minister of public affairs of All-Palestine govt. confirms publicly that there's no division between Syria, Lebanon and Jordan.
1982- Arafat talking about 'One Arab state from Morocco to Yemen'.

The way Westerners understand Palestinian nationalism as something 'separate' is not the way Arabs themselves view it - as a tool for a unified Arab rule in the whole region..

How much would Palestine be 'independent' once incorporated into a bigger Arab empire?

Drivel. You are, as Hasbarists are wont to do, proceeding from a number of false premises, namely Palestinians are Arabs from Arabia rather than native Levantines who adopted Arabic culture over the centuries. The idea of Pan-Arabism was a mainstream ideaology both before and especially after the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire. The Arabised territories of the Ottoman Empire, "from Morocco to Yemen" if you like, yearned for a resurgence of a unified Caliphate and those comments should be taken in that context, assuming they were ever made, as the All Palestine Government didn't exist in 1981 and whatever Arafat may or may not have said in that sound-bite clip was translated by Zionist Israelis, so may be suspect.

As to, "how much would Palestine be 'independent' once incorporated into a bigger Arab empire" just look at the U.S.A.; each state has a level of internal autonomy and independence, yet all contribute to a supra-state government. Any such independence would be far better for the Palestinians than being dispossed and colonised by foreign settlers who continue a regime of oppression and denial of Palestinian self-determination.

Hasbara this, hasbara that....
Palestinians as much the people in Lebanon have their roots in Arabian, Greek, European and other Near-Eastern peoples. You don't need to invent a parallel history to make Bedouins and Egyptians into 'Levantine people'. They're much closer to Arabians, Syrian Arabs and Egyptians than to the Druze who are Levantine people. Guess who also clusters with the Druze....not the Palestinians. The Palestinians don't deny that even today...and they say it openly.

Challenger did You just compare USA to the Caliphate??
This IS THE SYMPTOM of team Palestine, You guys in the west can't really distinguish between Your invented ideals and reality, between civilization and barbarity.

Tell me how the lives of the Yazidis, Christians and Kurds look today in the Caliphate?
How about a yellow star for the dhimmi Jews, should we return to that either?

Remember rylah, you are talking to someone (Challenger) who denies there was a Judean Kingdom during the time of Jesus, though it says so plainly in the New Testament. And someone who also denies there was a Maccabean Kingdom of Judea under King Hyrcanus and Queen Shlomith, despite the documented evidence.

 

[Humanity]

"Israel does somewhat control Gaza's sovereign interaction"

"Not the same as Gaza not having sovereignty."

Let's put the border control aside for one moment... For any country to have "sovereignty" then surely you would agree that the country would have full control of land, air and sea?

Gaza has full and complete control over her land. Her government can do what it likes there. It can permit (or fail to police) the smuggling of weapons. It can allocate resources to building tunnels instead of homes, schools and hospitals. It can procure electricity for its own use, denying it population. It can neglect repair to sewage and water infrastructure. It can police the people as it sees fit, enact laws and enforce them. Israel has absolutely no control over what goes on in Gaza. Gaza is sovereign to do what she likes there.

A blockade does not end someone's sovereignty. Nor create an occupation.

What the blockade does is reduce the ability of the Gazan government to interact with other nations and entities in trade. I'm not saying that it does affect the Gazan government and the Gazan people. It most surely does. (As its intended to).

Should Gaza have control over her sea and air? Of course. But let's put responsibility where it belongs. The reason she does not have control over her sea and air is because she is governed by a terrorist organization (and has several others operating relatively freely). And because she continues her belligerent actions toward Israel (if not by the government, certainly with their complicity.) The blockade will and should end when that is no longer true. And who has sovereignty over that decision? Hamas. Not Israel.

Sorry, I think your ideas of "sovereign", "complete control" and the effects of a "blockade" are rather skewed by your love of Israel and dislike of Gaza...

Little point in continuing this particular conversation!