How conservative are you?

[Fatality]

so this thread is just a liberal circle jerk

 

[Diuretic]

You're right ed - what's needed is a good theory of historical change, it seems to me that the terms we continually use - conservative or progressive - are relative to the times in which they're used. Having said that though I am always drawn to Burke when it comes to trying to define what a "conservative" is at any time or indeed in any place. It's a philosophy and not simply a set of policy views rooted in time and place.

Conservatism and liberalism are NOT a phiosophies.

They descrive propensities toward wanting things to remain the same or to change.

If you live in a communist or capitalist dictatorship and you like it?

You're a conservative.

If you live in a communist or capitalist dictatorship and want it to change?

You're a liberal.

If I don't like change I can be called conservative. If I want change I can be called a progressive. I could also be called (a) a grumpy stick in the mud or (b) a starry-eyed dreamer. Any of those labels can be applied - but they're essentially meaningless because they describe a tendency and not a policy position.

In Poland just before the end of communism Lech Walesa was seen as a radical. The communist government was seen as conservative. Solidarity was economically liberal (or neoclassical in the economic sense) while the government was Marxist. The neoclassicals were, in this instance, radical, the Marxist government was conservative. But those terms - radical and conservative - are defined in relative terms, they aren't objectively describing the policy positions of each.

My point is that people who claim to be "conservative" can actually be radical (or more likely 'reactionary'). While conservatism in the Burkean sense emphasises individual liberty (and let's not forget that J.S. Mill was an economic as well as a philosophical liberal) and government-light, Americans who call themselves "conservative" can actually hold policy positions which are authoritarian and anti-individual, anathema to the Burkean conservative. Authoritarian reactionaries is what they really are.

 

[ErikViking]

so this thread is just a liberal circle jerk

Not at all. Why do you say that?

 

[nodoginnafight]

If you live in a communist or capitalist dictatorship and you like it? You're a conservative. If you live in a communist or capitalist dictatorship and want it to change? You're a liberal.

Thank you so much. I am so encouraged to find others who understand what these terms really mean and don't allow pundits/political hacks to re-define the terms in order to try to advance their own agenda.

I would suggest that if the original posters wants to find out how far back people have to go to find a period in American history that is more closely aligned with their own political philosophy, it would be accurate to say, "How reactionary are you."

Conservative = A desire to maintain the status quo
Liberal = Someone who supports incremental change
Reactionary = Someone who wants to turn back the clock
Radical = Someone who advocates sweeping change

 

[Diuretic]

so this thread is just a liberal circle jerk

The thread has gone beyond your capacity to understand so you're left with impotent insults.

 

[ErikViking]

If you live in a communist or capitalist dictatorship and you like it? You're a conservative. If you live in a communist or capitalist dictatorship and want it to change? You're a liberal.

Thank you so much. I am so encouraged to find others who understand what these terms really mean and don't allow pundits/political hacks to re-define the terms in order to try to advance their own agenda.

I would suggest that if the original posters wants to find out how far back people have to go to find a period in American history that is more closely aligned with their own political philosophy, it would be accurate to say, "How reactionary are you."

Conservative = A desire to maintain the status quo
Liberal = Someone who supports incremental change
Reactionary = Someone who wants to turn back the clock
Radical = Someone who advocates sweeping change

First off there are many different definitions over both geografy, context and time regarding the terminology. But for some people - and today in the USA you would probaly call yourself conservative - there has been a time in the past that suites their view of how society should be.

Some people say that America, during the eighties saw a great time and would love to see it come to that again. No one seriously think we can travel through time: of course a strive for the eighties requires a progressive push forward - but with goals from the past.

 

[Fatality]

so this thread is just a liberal circle jerk

The thread has gone beyond your capacity to understand so you're left with impotent insults.

and you left wiht a mouth full of goo, so there ya go.

 

[del]

so this thread is just a liberal circle jerk

The thread has gone beyond your capacity to understand so you're left with impotent insults.

and you left wiht a mouth full of goo, so there ya go.

is irony a concept with which you are familiar?

 

[Diuretic]

so this thread is just a liberal circle jerk

The thread has gone beyond your capacity to understand so you're left with impotent insults.

and you left wiht a mouth full of goo, so there ya go.

Q.E.D.

 

[xsited1]

I have been thinking about this:

If you define yourself as a conservative, was there ever a time in history you think should be the general goal for society. Now you might like the policy during the eighties but the technology of today.

But if be bundle all soft values toghether, things like policy, family values, fairness of society, health and things like that - can you pick a time when you think things were "best yet"?

Conservatives in America? Time to dust off the history book... They've been dead for years.

 

[editec]

I have been thinking about this:

If you define yourself as a conservative, was there ever a time in history you think should be the general goal for society. Now you might like the policy during the eighties but the technology of today.

But if be bundle all soft values toghether, things like policy, family values, fairness of society, health and things like that - can you pick a time when you think things were "best yet"?

Conservatives in America? Time to dust off the history book... They've been dead for years.

Thre have always been people who didn't want change.

There have always been people who wanted everything to change.

There has always been people in American wanting some things to change and others to stay the same.

Todays self proclaiming conservatives for example want our HC system to remain the same, but want radical changes to things like social security and welfare.

So are they conservatives or radicals or liberals or what?

They're partisans of a particular kind, and neither conservatives or liberals.

Same with most so called liberals. Somethings they want to radically change and others they want to stay the same.

 

[Fatality]

The thread has gone beyond your capacity to understand so you're left with impotent insults.

and you left wiht a mouth full of goo, so there ya go.

is irony a concept with which you are familiar?

they caught you on video

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtXd8kj-JJc]YouTube - Head vs door[/ame]

 

[xsited1]

I have been thinking about this:

If you define yourself as a conservative, was there ever a time in history you think should be the general goal for society. Now you might like the policy during the eighties but the technology of today.

But if be bundle all soft values toghether, things like policy, family values, fairness of society, health and things like that - can you pick a time when you think things were "best yet"?

Conservatives in America? Time to dust off the history book... They've been dead for years.

Thre have always been people who didn't want change.

There have always been people who wanted everything to change.

There has always been people in American wanting some things to change and others to stay the same.

Todays self proclaiming conservatives for example want our HC system to remain the same, but want radical changes to things like social security and welfare.

So are they conservatives or radicals or liberals or what?

They're partisans of a particular kind, and neither conservatives or liberals.

Same with most so called liberals. Somethings they want to radically change and others they want to stay the same.

Conservatives want our HC system to remain the same? I don't think so. If anything, they want more free market changes. In other words, get the government out of healthcare. Currently, the government controls a huge portion of our system which is one of the big reasons why we have so many problems. Of course, the left wants even more government control. It's so screwed up.

 

[Xenophon]

About the gov spending and taxing my money?

Extreme.

Everything else?

Not a bit.

 

[Harry Dresden]

I'm not Conservative at all but not a Liberal Democrat either. Centrist, pro-business Democrat if there is such an animal.

have me fooled....

 

[nodoginnafight]

I'm so conservative, I won't change my SOCKS!

 

[MaggieMae]

I have been thinking about this:

If you define yourself as a conservative, was there ever a time in history you think should be the general goal for society. Now you might like the policy during the eighties but the technology of today.

But if be bundle all soft values toghether, things like policy, family values, fairness of society, health and things like that - can you pick a time when you think things were "best yet"?

I don't think that can be accurately determined. Depending on what age we were, our priorities were all different. My 'best' years personally were probably the mid 70's, but politically, those were tumultuous years. Just not for me. I can remember arguing Reagan's conservative values with my mother who was a Democrat, but when I look back on those years (the 80's), I was surrounded more by conservatives in my husband's circle so was highly influenced by their conversation. By the time the 90's rolled around, I'd found myself again and I haven't changed much since then. I still have many conservative values but they have become harder and harder to justify because I've watched changes happen at light speed that affect all aspects of most of our lives, making it almost impossible to be strictly conservative or strictly liberal anymore.

 

[MaggieMae]

That would be when Government and Congress understood their limits and actually followed the Constitution. In other words not in a HELL of a long time.

Congress does not have the authority to create new functions or responsibilities for itself or the Government. The Government needs new powers and Authority? The Constitution provides for that, it is called the Amendment process. Not stretching and lying about what the enumerated powers of the Federal Government and Congress are.

So using your logic, there should be no Veterans Administration.

 

[MaggieMae]

A time when the people would not stand to be lied to by political leaders , and when leaders wouldn't try.
That time is in the future.
This is a time of educated, not indoctrinated people .
"If a nation expects to be ignorant -- and free ... it expects what never was and never will be."

Here's what the hypocrites don't get: The only politicians that lie are the ones on the other side of where you stand politically. Uh huh.

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

What is with the obsession with political labels? Why would a person want to adopt a generalized label, as well as one that narrowly defines a person's political beliefs? Why not debate and discuss specific issues on a one on one basis with people. If you find common ground to work together, fine. If not, it is not the end of the world.

The Constitution is our benchmark, not the label of "conservative."