How did the Universe get here?

[Boss]

Thank's, Steve.

Stephen Hawking directly refutes the "cyclical universe" theory that was claimed to be "supported by science." I think it's safe to say when the leading physicist of our time disagrees with something, it is clearly NOT supported by science.

Should we assume your "Thank's (sic), Steve" comment was sarcasm, or did you just make a complete and utter fool of your misinformed self?

And there we see Boss lying his ass off again! His own article clearly showed that the "bet" that Hawking had made was not yet completed since all of the data was still pending from the agreed upon source.

This was pointed out to Boss when he first made his fallacious claim but he persists is spewing his canard as if it is somehow supports his religious agenda. Furthermore he injects a completely gratuitous insult.

Dishonesty of this nature is why Boss cannot be trusted.

You made the claim that this theory was supported by scientific evidence and every day, we're moving closer to proving this theory correct. The TRUTH is, the theory is not supported by science and we're moving AWAY from proving it correct. Now you are welcome to cling to faith here, and if this were anyone other than Hawking who said your theory is bunk, you may be rational to have such faith. But the bottom line is, the TRUTH isn't as you stated. At best, this "cyclical universe" is a theory on very shaky ground and the leading physicist of our time has abandoned it. Meanwhile, you're here promoting it as some kind of almost-fact of proven science!

 

[sealybobo]

I'll admit I have absolutely zero evidence that god doesn't exist if you'll admit that you have absolutely zero evidence he does how about that?

You've already admitted you have zero evidence that God doesn't exist. I'll be glad to admit that I have no evidence you'll accept that God exists, but I can't say I don't have evidence. I do have evidence. Now if it were the other way around and you had some evidence God didn't exist but I didn't accept your evidence, would you admit you had no evidence?

And how do you know all this: God is Spiritual Nature or a Spiritual Energy. It doesn't have humanistic attributes, it's not physical and has no human emotions. It's like electricity and gravity, except instead of being a physical force, it is a spiritual one. God created the universe and all the life in it, along with all the laws of physics and mathematics, principles of nature and whatnot. I have stated that I don't know if "intelligent" is the appropriate word to apply to God. We may not have a word to define the aspect."?

P.S. I"m not spiritually connected to god.

You made a comment about being unclear as to what I believe, and this is me telling you what I believe. Now, I am human, it's possible for me to be wrong. Could be that God's completely different than what I believe. I know that I connect with God daily. Since this is how I understand and comprehend the thing I connect with daily, it's what I believe.

Even after all I have explained, you still think I am "cherry-picking" but I don't see as that's what I am doing at all. It's not like there is some universally understood incarnation of God and I am picking which things to believe and which to not believe.

You don't have any good evidence. Every conceivable argument, every imaginable piece of evidence for god is not without some fatal flaw or more likely explanation which precludes it from being used as definitive proof.

We do have tons of proof/evidence the christian jew and muslim god is fake. We just can't prove that your imaginary friend isn't real. How do you suggest we prove your imaginary friend in your head isn't real? If he's real in your head I guess to you he is real.

 

[sealybobo]

I'll admit I have absolutely zero evidence that god doesn't exist if you'll admit that you have absolutely zero evidence he does how about that?

You've already admitted you have zero evidence that God doesn't exist. I'll be glad to admit that I have no evidence you'll accept that God exists, but I can't say I don't have evidence. I do have evidence. Now if it were the other way around and you had some evidence God didn't exist but I didn't accept your evidence, would you admit you had no evidence?

And how do you know all this: God is Spiritual Nature or a Spiritual Energy. It doesn't have humanistic attributes, it's not physical and has no human emotions. It's like electricity and gravity, except instead of being a physical force, it is a spiritual one. God created the universe and all the life in it, along with all the laws of physics and mathematics, principles of nature and whatnot. I have stated that I don't know if "intelligent" is the appropriate word to apply to God. We may not have a word to define the aspect."?

P.S. I"m not spiritually connected to god.

You made a comment about being unclear as to what I believe, and this is me telling you what I believe. Now, I am human, it's possible for me to be wrong. Could be that God's completely different than what I believe. I know that I connect with God daily. Since this is how I understand and comprehend the thing I connect with daily, it's what I believe.

Even after all I have explained, you still think I am "cherry-picking" but I don't see as that's what I am doing at all. It's not like there is some universally understood incarnation of God and I am picking which things to believe and which to not believe.

Well I can tell you I thought the same way you think a couple months ago but I stopped being stupid. If the biblical god is fake, why am I even holding on to the notion that there even is a god? Your reasons aren't good reasons. But, like I said in the last post, I guess if god is real in your head, that is all you need to believe that he is real.

I believe in witches. So they must be true. I believe in ufo's from other planets. So it must be true.

P.S. This guy told me that god means from the sky. He said that means primitive man saw aliens come to earth and they were the first to be called gods. So it might very well be that ancient man 200,000 years ago mistook aliens for god(s) and this is why we as humans have always been spiritual. I don't know. I wasn't there. And neither were you.

So its ok if you want to cling to your fantasy. You keep talking to god every day if it makes you feel better.

 

[Boss]

Didn't you say that your version of god may just be one aspect of god? Why couldn't there be another aspect of god which is more human and has a wife, then?

I don't think that's what I said.

 

[sealybobo]

And it was rude of you to be as insulting as you were.

However, I haven't read you complaining or whining about other people insulting or denigrating, whereas Boss has done that on multiple occasions. So while you were rude, it wasn't a hypocritical rudeness.

Let's get something clear, Moonbat... I am not whining or complaining about other people insulting and denigrating others. I fully expect you to do this because that's your objective. My only objective is to express my opinion and share my beliefs with others. Sometimes, my opinion might be that you're an idiot and a dumbass. Therefore, I am going to tell you that, but it's not my objective and that's not my agenda.

Your objective seems to be picking out people you like and dislike, then spending all your time stroking the egos of people you like while finding any way you can to misconstrue and take out of context, what the people you don't like have to say. You're really talented at parsing out little snippets of a conversation and myopically focusing on the nuance, so as to try and embarrass someone. You use the phrase "so what you're saying is..." a lot. Usually it is followed by something you've managed to distill from the conversation that is totally NOT what the other person is saying, and despite their repeated attempts to clarify that, you insist that's what they said.

No one needs to misconstrue anything. You believe a 7000 year lie plane and simple.

Why is it now that we have developed rational inquiry we hear only a deafening silence from a god who once supposedly engaged regularly in human affairs? Why does god not simply speak to us or appear before us as he supposedly used to? Why are we the losers in the dice roll of time? If a god places such a high value on us worshipping and believing then why not simply make its existence obvious to us?

But then you don't even really believe any of the stories where god visited man on earth. You know all the stories about god are bullshit lies. YET you still believe in the premise.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Stephen Hawking directly refutes the "cyclical universe" theory that was claimed to be "supported by science." I think it's safe to say when the leading physicist of our time disagrees with something, it is clearly NOT supported by science.

Should we assume your "Thank's (sic), Steve" comment was sarcasm, or did you just make a complete and utter fool of your misinformed self?

And there we see Boss lying his ass off again! His own article clearly showed that the "bet" that Hawking had made was not yet completed since all of the data was still pending from the agreed upon source.

This was pointed out to Boss when he first made his fallacious claim but he persists is spewing his canard as if it is somehow supports his religious agenda. Furthermore he injects a completely gratuitous insult.

Dishonesty of this nature is why Boss cannot be trusted.

You made the claim that this theory was supported by scientific evidence and every day, we're moving closer to proving this theory correct. The TRUTH is, the theory is not supported by science and we're moving AWAY from proving it correct. Now you are welcome to cling to faith here, and if this were anyone other than Hawking who said your theory is bunk, you may be rational to have such faith. But the bottom line is, the TRUTH isn't as you stated. At best, this "cyclical universe" is a theory on very shaky ground and the leading physicist of our time has abandoned it. Meanwhile, you're here promoting it as some kind of almost-fact of proven science!

The Laws of Physics, the math and logic all agree that there is a cyclical universe. Hawking has admitted to being wrong in the past (2004 he lost the bet with Suskind) so this won't be the first time he has made the wrong bet.

Your problem is believing that Hawking is infallible because your religion preaches about infallibility and you cannot handle the fact that your own God is fallible per his own "word".

The cyclical universe theory is still very much alive and well and will be around until there is either a better explanation for what preceded the singularity or the cyclical universe is proven beyond all doubt.

What won't happen under any circumstances whatsoever is any shred of evidence turning up to support your fallacious belief in a "creator".

 

[sealybobo]

Didn't you say that your version of god may just be one aspect of god? Why couldn't there be another aspect of god which is more human and has a wife, then?

I don't think that's what I said.

Doesn't god like to fuck?

Funny it takes a male and female to make a baby.

And you have a problem with SINGLE cell organisms producing life.

But you are ok with god being all alone. No friends, no brothers or sisters, no wife, no night time or rest. No piers.

And why are you so sure there is only one god?

 

[sealybobo]

And there we see Boss lying his ass off again! His own article clearly showed that the "bet" that Hawking had made was not yet completed since all of the data was still pending from the agreed upon source.

This was pointed out to Boss when he first made his fallacious claim but he persists is spewing his canard as if it is somehow supports his religious agenda. Furthermore he injects a completely gratuitous insult.

Dishonesty of this nature is why Boss cannot be trusted.

You made the claim that this theory was supported by scientific evidence and every day, we're moving closer to proving this theory correct. The TRUTH is, the theory is not supported by science and we're moving AWAY from proving it correct. Now you are welcome to cling to faith here, and if this were anyone other than Hawking who said your theory is bunk, you may be rational to have such faith. But the bottom line is, the TRUTH isn't as you stated. At best, this "cyclical universe" is a theory on very shaky ground and the leading physicist of our time has abandoned it. Meanwhile, you're here promoting it as some kind of almost-fact of proven science!

The Laws of Physics, the math and logic all agree that there is a cyclical universe. Hawking has admitted to being wrong in the past (2004 he lost the bet with Suskind) so this won't be the first time he has made the wrong bet.

Your problem is believing that Hawking is infallible because your religion preaches about infallibility and you cannot handle the fact that your own God is fallible per his own "word".

The cyclical universe theory is still very much alive and well and will be around until there is either a better explanation for what preceded the singularity or the cyclical universe is proven beyond all doubt.

What won't happen under any circumstances whatsoever is any shred of evidence turning up to support your fallacious belief in a "creator".

He doesn't need any evidence or proof. Our ancient ancestors who were barely smarter than monkeys made it up and that's good enough for his monkey ass.

 

[sealybobo]

Didn't you say that your version of god may just be one aspect of god? Why couldn't there be another aspect of god which is more human and has a wife, then?

I don't think that's what I said.

And you do cherry pick. You aren't a christian but you believe in hell right? So you pick and choose. CHERRY PICKER!

 

[Boss]

You don't have any good evidence. Every conceivable argument, every imaginable piece of evidence for god is not without some fatal flaw or more likely explanation which precludes it from being used as definitive proof.

We do have tons of proof/evidence the christian jew and muslim god is fake. We just can't prove that your imaginary friend isn't real. How do you suggest we prove your imaginary friend in your head isn't real? If he's real in your head I guess to you he is real.

You're swinging wildly here again, silly boob. You just got through admitting you have absolutely ZERO evidence that God doesn't exist. Now you claim to have tons of evidence. You've not presented any, so I will assume you're just blathering your typical idiocy.

I never have said you could prove that my connection to God is real or not real. It's still MY evidence. If you fell off a two story house and landed softly on your two feet, and no one witnessed that, would it matter if you couldn't prove it happened or if no one else believed you? It's still happened to you, and you know it happened. "Evidence" is always subjective to individual evaluation. What you see as "evidence" I may not consider evidence at all, and visa versa. Lot's of people believe they have evidence of UFOs, not everyone accepts their evidence.

And... Evidence is not PROOF. There are not many things that are "definitively proven" in our universe.

 

[edthecynic]

I believe in God, only I spell it Nature.
- Frank Lloyd Wright

 

[Derideo_Te]

You don't have any good evidence. Every conceivable argument, every imaginable piece of evidence for god is not without some fatal flaw or more likely explanation which precludes it from being used as definitive proof.

We do have tons of proof/evidence the christian jew and muslim god is fake. We just can't prove that your imaginary friend isn't real. How do you suggest we prove your imaginary friend in your head isn't real? If he's real in your head I guess to you he is real.

You're swinging wildly here again, silly boob. You just got through admitting you have absolutely ZERO evidence that God doesn't exist. Now you claim to have tons of evidence. You've not presented any, so I will assume you're just blathering your typical idiocy.

I never have said you could prove that my connection to God is real or not real. It's still MY evidence. If you fell off a two story house and landed softly on your two feet, and no one witnessed that, would it matter if you couldn't prove it happened or if no one else believed you? It's still happened to you, and you know it happened. "Evidence" is always subjective to individual evaluation. What you see as "evidence" I may not consider evidence at all, and visa versa. Lot's of people believe they have evidence of UFOs, not everyone accepts their evidence.

And... Evidence is not PROOF. There are not many things that are "definitively proven" in our universe.

proof
noun
1.
evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true, or to produce belief in its truth.
2.
anything serving as such evidence: What proof do you have?
3.
the act of testing or making trial of anything; test; trial: to put a thing to the proof.
4.
the establishment of the truth of anything; demonstration.
5.
Law. (in judicial proceedings) evidence having probative weight.proof [proof] Show IPA
noun
1.
evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true, or to produce belief in its truth.
2.
anything serving as such evidence: What proof do you have?
3.
the act of testing or making trial of anything; test; trial: to put a thing to the proof.
4.
the establishment of the truth of anything; demonstration.
5.
Law. (in judicial proceedings) evidence having probative weight.

Proof | Define Proof at Dictionary.com

 

[Boss]

The Laws of Physics, the math and logic all agree that there is a cyclical universe.

LMFAO... Did they have a convention? Who was the keynote speaker? Was Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle invited? Did Quantum Physics get to vote or did they hold their own convention? And this Singularity... did it have a big giant "O" on the side of the bus and promise hope and change?

Hawking has admitted to being wrong in the past (2004 he lost the bet with Suskind) so this won't be the first time he has made the wrong bet.

LOL... I'm guessing the guy has been right more than he's been wrong.

Your problem is believing that Hawking is infallible because your religion preaches about infallibility and you cannot handle the fact that your own God is fallible per his own "word".

Well I don't have a religion and I don't think Hawking is infallible. He doesn't believe in God, for instance.

The cyclical universe theory is still very much alive and well and will be around until there is either a better explanation for what preceded the singularity or the cyclical universe is proven beyond all doubt.

Well, the theory the earth was flat was around much longer. And the theory of Gravity and Levity prevailed in science for 2,000 years. So you may have a point... but what you're lacking is the evidence to prove your theory.

What won't happen under any circumstances whatsoever is any shred of evidence turning up to support your fallacious belief in a "creator".

Well certainly not in YOUR closed mind, anyway. It would probably defy the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics for that to happen in there.

 

[Derideo_Te]

The Laws of Physics, the math and logic all agree that there is a cyclical universe.

LMFAO... Did they have a convention? Who was the keynote speaker? Was Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle invited? Did Quantum Physics get to vote or did they hold their own convention? And this Singularity... did it have a big giant "O" on the side of the bus and promise hope and change?

Hawking has admitted to being wrong in the past (2004 he lost the bet with Suskind) so this won't be the first time he has made the wrong bet.

LOL... I'm guessing the guy has been right more than he's been wrong.



Well I don't have a religion and I don't think Hawking is infallible. He doesn't believe in God, for instance.

The cyclical universe theory is still very much alive and well and will be around until there is either a better explanation for what preceded the singularity or the cyclical universe is proven beyond all doubt.

Well, the theory the earth was flat was around much longer. And the theory of Gravity and Levity prevailed in science for 2,000 years. So you may have a point... but what you're lacking is the evidence to prove your theory.

What won't happen under any circumstances whatsoever is any shred of evidence turning up to support your fallacious belief in a "creator".

Well certainly not in YOUR closed mind, anyway. It would probably defy the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics for that to happen in there.

Thank you for proving me right about your lying and dishonesty. Have a nice day.

 

[sealybobo]

You don't have any good evidence. Every conceivable argument, every imaginable piece of evidence for god is not without some fatal flaw or more likely explanation which precludes it from being used as definitive proof.

We do have tons of proof/evidence the christian jew and muslim god is fake. We just can't prove that your imaginary friend isn't real. How do you suggest we prove your imaginary friend in your head isn't real? If he's real in your head I guess to you he is real.

You're swinging wildly here again, silly boob. You just got through admitting you have absolutely ZERO evidence that God doesn't exist. Now you claim to have tons of evidence. You've not presented any, so I will assume you're just blathering your typical idiocy.

I never have said you could prove that my connection to God is real or not real. It's still MY evidence. If you fell off a two story house and landed softly on your two feet, and no one witnessed that, would it matter if you couldn't prove it happened or if no one else believed you? It's still happened to you, and you know it happened. "Evidence" is always subjective to individual evaluation. What you see as "evidence" I may not consider evidence at all, and visa versa. Lot's of people believe they have evidence of UFOs, not everyone accepts their evidence.

And... Evidence is not PROOF. There are not many things that are "definitively proven" in our universe.

We have tons of evidence the biblical god doesn't exist. I can't prove a vague generic imaginary non physical thing that is beyond human mental capability but we sure have put the christian, jew and muslim god to rest no question about it.

Isn't that why you deny Christ?

Did I fall off a 2 story building and land safely? No. But you, like other religious dopes have claimed to have witnessed miracles. As if this god cares about you and comes and saves you. Talk about vein.

 

[Boss]

No one needs to misconstrue anything. You believe a 7000 year lie plane and simple.

Well, no... I believe in a 14.5 billion year truth. One that you have no evidence to refute.

Why is it now that we have developed rational inquiry we hear only a deafening silence from a god who once supposedly engaged regularly in human affairs? Why does god not simply speak to us or appear before us as he supposedly used to? Why are we the losers in the dice roll of time? If a god places such a high value on us worshipping and believing then why not simply make its existence obvious to us?

Well now you are getting into religion again, and I am not here to defend religion. That said, I have read the Bible and I noticed there was very long periods of time where God didn't appear or speak, or make His presence known. His "chosen people" were enslaved for hundreds of years and such. So your concept of time is kind of weak. You assume that a couple thousand years is a lot of time to God, and it really isn't. God is timeless.

If a god places such a high value on us worshipping and believing then why not simply make its existence obvious to us?

One of the main reasons I can't believe in organized religions. If it was a "desire" God had, that we worship Him and believe in Him, then it would be like breathing air or eating food... we'd have no choice in the matter at all. So I don't believe God places a high value on this, or has any kind of humanistic "wants and desires" as such. Again, think in terms of electricity... does electricity WANT you to use it? Does it CARE if you don't? Does it have any NEED to reveal itself to you? If you want to deny electricity exists and live like a Minonite, that is up to you! Electricity doesn't care. It also doesn't "CARE" that you stick your tongue in a light socket. That's entirely up to you! It's not going to prevent you from doing that, but it's also not going to benevolently forgive you for it either.

But then you don't even really believe any of the stories where god visited man on earth. You know all the stories about god are bullshit lies. YET you still believe in the premise.

I've not said that. While I don't personally believe the stories, it doesn't mean I think they are "bullshit lies" either. I believe in the premise of a Spiritual God because I connect with this daily in my personal life. If I didn't make that connection, I probably couldn't believe it. Being that I know this spiritual connection is real, and along with the fact that I know humans have always been spiritually connected to something greater than self, I can certainly see how it's possible some people believe they have been visited by God, or that these stories in the Bible are true from their perspective. I don't judge, it's not my place, and it has nothing to do with what I personally know is the truth.

Now... IF someone were to tell me they spoke to their electrical outlet and it told them to forgive their neighbor's transgressions and this would bring peace and love to their lives... I don't think I would believe that... BUT... if that's what cranks their tractor, I have no problem with them believing it. I'm not going to claim they are wrong or stupid, I don't know. I don't personally believe it, but I could be wrong. In the spirit of what Emily has said, if it brings about something good, why argue about how it comes to be?

 

[Boss]

We have tons of evidence the biblical god doesn't exist. I can't prove a vague generic imaginary non physical thing that is beyond human mental capability but we sure have put the christian, jew and muslim god to rest no question about it.

Isn't that why you deny Christ?

Did I fall off a 2 story building and land safely? No. But you, like other religious dopes have claimed to have witnessed miracles. As if this god cares about you and comes and saves you. Talk about vein.

Well... NO, you really haven't got tons of evidence or you'd present it. Instead, you admit that you have absolutely ZERO evidence in one breath, then make these wild ass claims in another. You're clearly unhinged. Split from your own reality! You've not proven ANY God doesn't exist, not the Christian God, not the Muslim God, not the Jewish God, not MY God... no evidence whatsoever.

As for "miracles" I have been the recipient of them. There are 4 times in my life where, by all odds, I should have died. There is no explanation for why I didn't other than it was a "miracle" that kept me from it. Now, I don't really give two fucks if you believe me or not. My personal beliefs have absolutely nothing to do with what you accept or believe. Perhaps that is the case with you? Maybe you need for someone else to validate your beliefs in order to have them? I don't need that.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Woop there it is. Now they'll tell us we really deep down do believe but it is Satan that makes us deny god. But then they would have to believe the Adam & Eve, Noah, Moses stories too and 7 out of 10 christians know those are just stories. How long until they put 2 and 2 together and realize the jesus story is just a story too?

I don't think Satan makes you deny God.....I simply think you're one of those who only needs Satan to dangle a cheese curl in front of you and you jump at the chance to deny God....what else could explain the things that no rational person would believe, yet you've repeated them in post after post......

Such as? List the irrational things I believe so we can discuss them.

you could start with your assumption that Christian = GOP.......

 

[Boss]

Didn't you say that your version of god may just be one aspect of god? Why couldn't there be another aspect of god which is more human and has a wife, then?

I don't think that's what I said.

And you do cherry pick. You aren't a christian but you believe in hell right? So you pick and choose. CHERRY PICKER!

I've never said that I believed in hell, or heaven for that matter. I believe the spirit is eternal and continues to exist when our physical bodies expire. Now where Spiritual Energy carries it from here, I have no idea. My personal belief is, there are other dimensions we are not aware of in the physical realm. If you want to consider these "higher" and "lower" dimensions, I can see an argument for a spiritual dimension that could be defined as "hell" or "heaven" in our perception and understanding. Again... don't know if this is true or not, don't have any evidence to show, it's just what I personally think. I guess when I die, I'll find out?

All that I am certain about is that Spiritual Nature leads us and guides us in a particular direction, toward "goodness" and away from "evilness." I can't help but imagine that is by design and serves some greater purpose. I could be wrong... maybe one day I meet my maker and he says, "you idiot, I was trying to tell you to throw in with the god-haters and denounce human spirituality and work toward promoting evil in the world, how could you have been so unbelievably stupid?" If that day comes, I'll owe you an apology.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Irrational thing #1: That chemicals and elements somehow defied biogenesis and originated life.

Irrational thing #2: That all life evolved from a single cell organism.

Irrational thing #3: That science has any evidence that God does not exist.

Believers claim the victim and imply that non-theists gang up on them, or rally against them. No, atheists just look at believers the same way they might look at someone who claims the Earth is flat, or that the Earth is the centre of the universe: delusional.

The bar theists set for perceived atheist hostility appears to be anyone simply voicing a dissenting opinion or mentioning an inclination towards non-belief. Claiming ‘persecution’ is simply a deflection for theists who are unwilling or unable to deal with open criticism.

or the claim that Christians believe the earth is flat or the earth is the center of the universe.....