How do we stop "the poor" from being so problematic?

[deanrd]

What's the GOP plan? Starve them? Kill them? Sterilize them? What?

The Donald would want them to actually work for a living, the democrats and most republicans do not want to point out the fact they have dramatically lower IQs and savage behavioral issues incompatible with Western society. Indeed the humane thing is to sterilized them but I have no problem using more direct methods to stop the attack on humanity.

Most of them by far vote GOP.

You do realize criminals vote Democrat over Republican by a significant margin. In 2014 it was 7 out of 10 were Democrats but you always seem to distort the truth.

Oh please, get real.

How many unarmed whites are shot by police?

Remember Cliven Bundy and the armed stand off with state troopers?
Do you really think blacks or Hispanics could get away with that?
Case against Cliven Bundy, Nevada rancher involved in 2014 armed standoff, declared a mistrial

Remember Katrina?
Blacks "loot" but whites "find"?

So anytime your kind makes these arguments, I look at where they are coming from.

“Your kind”? You sound like a bigot.

I’m not making an argument, I’m stating a fact.

Jail survey: 7 in 10 felons register as Democrats

In fact it is so important for Democrats to restore felons voting rights, that they push for it in most every state. Virginia for one, Democrats Just Won A Massive Victory For Voting Rights In Virginia | HuffPost

Pretty simple facts. Democrats portray themselves as victims, criminals will portray themselves as victims.

Yea, your kind.

I gave you multiple reasons why you are looking through the eyes of a bigot and TA DA! You prove I'm right.

A white guy selling drugs to pay for his habit has a disease. He needs "help".

A black guy selling drugs to pay for his habit is a criminal who needs to go to jail.

How do we know? Look at the Opiod crises.

 

[hazlnut]

What can and or will be done about it politically?
In keeping with current board rhetoric let's not be scared to get real honest here.
Our poor are our worst parents...they create more of their same.
Our poor suck the most government tit.
Our poor commits the most crime.
Our poor does the most drugs.
Our poor drinks and smokes the most.
Our poor have the most children they can't afford.
Our poor litters and vandalizes the most.
Our poor drives uninsured.
Our poor commits the most animal cruelty.
I could go on and on...and no Libby's, let's not deflect and divert to Wall Street criminals, big corporations..blah, blah, blah...Let's get real, let's get serious about our taxpayer draining bottom feeders....Whatta ya say?

I think I know what you are suggesting…

 

[deanrd]

In all fairness, the wars on crime, drugs, and terror are every bit as valid as the war on poverty in terms of promoting the general welfare. Positive sounding and poorly implemented economic black holes.

Those are not real wars in any sense of the word. They are social problems that we don't how to address. IMHO, these problems will be with us for a long time.

Very simple fix to wealth inequality. The 80% of the poor who aren’t good citizens because they don’t vote need to show up and vote every two years. If they did then ceos wouldn’t make $30 million while paying $15 hr. The poor would be able to raise a family on one 40 hr a week job.

The rich vote and have convinced the poor voting doesn’t matter so I’m done advocating for the poor. Don’t vote don’t matter. Bad citizens.

Which rich people convince the poor voting doesn't matter? Any names?

And how would the poor voting change what a company pays their CEO or employees? Do you want government to run businesses too???

Government is the ultimate referee.

Not only can government advocate better for the poor and middle class in business they can also tax companies to strengthen social security

So how does taxing companies help the poor? You can tax companies at 50%, and not one poor person will see a dime.

You may make government richer, but they are the only ones.

If you want to help the poor, write to your politicians and tell them to start promoting two-parent families. That's the root of the poor's problem.

Taxing companies help the poor? Who is making that claim?

Oh, I get it. You pretending to be stupid. Creating a false straw man.

Well, it worked. You appear to be stupid.

What Democrats believe:

Give a Man a Fish, and You Feed Him for a Day. Teach a Man To Fish, and You Feed Him for a Lifetime.

What Republicans believe:

Fuk the poor. It's not my problem. Companies are people and the rich who inherited their money are Gods. Worship them.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The Donald would want them to actually work for a living, the democrats and most republicans do not want to point out the fact they have dramatically lower IQs and savage behavioral issues incompatible with Western society. Indeed the humane thing is to sterilized them but I have no problem using more direct methods to stop the attack on humanity.

Most of them by far vote GOP.

You do realize criminals vote Democrat over Republican by a significant margin. In 2014 it was 7 out of 10 were Democrats but you always seem to distort the truth.

Oh please, get real.

How many unarmed whites are shot by police?

Remember Cliven Bundy and the armed stand off with state troopers?
Do you really think blacks or Hispanics could get away with that?
Case against Cliven Bundy, Nevada rancher involved in 2014 armed standoff, declared a mistrial

Remember Katrina?
Blacks "loot" but whites "find"?

So anytime your kind makes these arguments, I look at where they are coming from.

“Your kind”? You sound like a bigot.

I’m not making an argument, I’m stating a fact.

Jail survey: 7 in 10 felons register as Democrats

In fact it is so important for Democrats to restore felons voting rights, that they push for it in most every state. Virginia for one, Democrats Just Won A Massive Victory For Voting Rights In Virginia | HuffPost

Pretty simple facts. Democrats portray themselves as victims, criminals will portray themselves as victims.

Yea, your kind.

I gave you multiple reasons why you are looking through the eyes of a bigot and TA DA! You prove I'm right.

A white guy selling drugs to pay for his habit has a disease. He needs "help".

A black guy selling drugs to pay for his habit is a criminal who needs to go to jail.

How do we know? Look at the Opiod crises.

Drug deals in the black communities are often more violent and lead to more deaths than in the white communities. That's besides the fact judges rule on just more than the crime at hand. They use testimony by the police on how the subject cooperated with them. They judge how the defendant dresses for court or his or her demeanor during trial. The judge has information on how the suspect interacted with police once inside the police station. And most of all, a judge decides if a person will be a problem in the future or not based on their past criminal record.

 

[Papageorgio]

The Donald would want them to actually work for a living, the democrats and most republicans do not want to point out the fact they have dramatically lower IQs and savage behavioral issues incompatible with Western society. Indeed the humane thing is to sterilized them but I have no problem using more direct methods to stop the attack on humanity.

Most of them by far vote GOP.

You do realize criminals vote Democrat over Republican by a significant margin. In 2014 it was 7 out of 10 were Democrats but you always seem to distort the truth.

Oh please, get real.

How many unarmed whites are shot by police?

Remember Cliven Bundy and the armed stand off with state troopers?
Do you really think blacks or Hispanics could get away with that?
Case against Cliven Bundy, Nevada rancher involved in 2014 armed standoff, declared a mistrial

Remember Katrina?
Blacks "loot" but whites "find"?

So anytime your kind makes these arguments, I look at where they are coming from.

“Your kind”? You sound like a bigot.

I’m not making an argument, I’m stating a fact.

Jail survey: 7 in 10 felons register as Democrats

In fact it is so important for Democrats to restore felons voting rights, that they push for it in most every state. Virginia for one, Democrats Just Won A Massive Victory For Voting Rights In Virginia | HuffPost

Pretty simple facts. Democrats portray themselves as victims, criminals will portray themselves as victims.

Yea, your kind.

I gave you multiple reasons why you are looking through the eyes of a bigot and TA DA! You prove I'm right.

A white guy selling drugs to pay for his habit has a disease. He needs "help".

A black guy selling drugs to pay for his habit is a criminal who needs to go to jail.

How do we know? Look at the Opiod crises.

Nut job how am I a bigot. You commented that criminals vote overwhelmingly GOP, I gave you facts that proved you made a wrong statement. You make a statement “your kind” and now I am bigot? I called BS on your statement and I understand you being pissed for being proven wrong.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Those are not real wars in any sense of the word. They are social problems that we don't how to address. IMHO, these problems will be with us for a long time.

Very simple fix to wealth inequality. The 80% of the poor who aren’t good citizens because they don’t vote need to show up and vote every two years. If they did then ceos wouldn’t make $30 million while paying $15 hr. The poor would be able to raise a family on one 40 hr a week job.

The rich vote and have convinced the poor voting doesn’t matter so I’m done advocating for the poor. Don’t vote don’t matter. Bad citizens.

Which rich people convince the poor voting doesn't matter? Any names?

And how would the poor voting change what a company pays their CEO or employees? Do you want government to run businesses too???

Government is the ultimate referee.

Not only can government advocate better for the poor and middle class in business they can also tax companies to strengthen social security

So how does taxing companies help the poor? You can tax companies at 50%, and not one poor person will see a dime.

You may make government richer, but they are the only ones.

If you want to help the poor, write to your politicians and tell them to start promoting two-parent families. That's the root of the poor's problem.

Taxing companies help the poor? Who is making that claim?

Oh, I get it. You pretending to be stupid. Creating a false straw man.

Well, it worked. You appear to be stupid.

What Democrats believe:

Give a Man a Fish, and You Feed Him for a Day. Teach a Man To Fish, and You Feed Him for a Lifetime.

What Republicans believe:

Fuk the poor. It's not my problem. Companies are people and the rich who inherited their money are Gods. Worship them.

Boy do you have that wrong.

Democrats believe give a man a fish, and he will vote for you the rest of his life
Republicans believe teach a man to fish, and you will no longer need Democrats.

Try to pay attention to the conversation, will you? I responded to Sealy when he said this:

Very simple fix to wealth inequality. The 80% of the poor who aren’t good citizens because they don’t vote need to show up and vote every two years. If they did then ceos wouldn’t make $30 million while paying $15 hr. The poor would be able to raise a family on one 40 hr a week job.

 

[deanrd]

Most of them by far vote GOP.

You do realize criminals vote Democrat over Republican by a significant margin. In 2014 it was 7 out of 10 were Democrats but you always seem to distort the truth.

Oh please, get real.

How many unarmed whites are shot by police?

Remember Cliven Bundy and the armed stand off with state troopers?
Do you really think blacks or Hispanics could get away with that?
Case against Cliven Bundy, Nevada rancher involved in 2014 armed standoff, declared a mistrial

Remember Katrina?
Blacks "loot" but whites "find"?

So anytime your kind makes these arguments, I look at where they are coming from.

“Your kind”? You sound like a bigot.

I’m not making an argument, I’m stating a fact.

Jail survey: 7 in 10 felons register as Democrats

In fact it is so important for Democrats to restore felons voting rights, that they push for it in most every state. Virginia for one, Democrats Just Won A Massive Victory For Voting Rights In Virginia | HuffPost

Pretty simple facts. Democrats portray themselves as victims, criminals will portray themselves as victims.

Yea, your kind.

I gave you multiple reasons why you are looking through the eyes of a bigot and TA DA! You prove I'm right.

A white guy selling drugs to pay for his habit has a disease. He needs "help".

A black guy selling drugs to pay for his habit is a criminal who needs to go to jail.

How do we know? Look at the Opiod crises.

Drug deals in the black communities are often more violent and lead to more deaths than in the white communities. That's besides the fact judges rule on just more than the crime at hand. They use testimony by the police on how the subject cooperated with them. They judge how the defendant dresses for court or his or her demeanor during trial. The judge has information on how the suspect interacted with police once inside the police station. And most of all, a judge decides if a person will be a problem in the future or not based on their past criminal record.

And there you go. Proving my point. How many unarmed and innocent whites are shot by Police.

For that matter, look at Cliven Bundy. A white terrorist armed and calling for insurrection. No blacks or Hispanics could get away with such activity. Cliven was treated with kid gloves.

 

[Godboy]

Our poor are our worst parents...they create more of their same.

The rich are worse

Our poor suck the most government tit.

The rich are worse

Our poor commits the most crime.

The rich are worse

Our poor does the most drugs.

The rich are worse

Our poor litters and vandalizes the most.

The rich are worse

Our poor commits the most animal cruelty.

The rich are worse

let's not deflect and divert to Wall Street criminals, big corporations..blah, blah, blah...Let's get real, let's get serious about our taxpayer draining bottom feeders....Whatta ya say?

It's not deflection if it is true. The rich raise sniveling entitled brats. They recieve more subsidies and breaks than everyone else. Most of them do cocaine and other hard drugs. They destroy ecosystems to put up their luxury mansions and mega-malls. They consume and monopolize the most resources. They slaughter trillions of animals each year to package into food products and market to fat American consumers.

Just the facts.

^ Weakest argument ever. Got any facts to support this idiocy?

 

[deanrd]

Most of them by far vote GOP.

You do realize criminals vote Democrat over Republican by a significant margin. In 2014 it was 7 out of 10 were Democrats but you always seem to distort the truth.

Oh please, get real.

How many unarmed whites are shot by police?

Remember Cliven Bundy and the armed stand off with state troopers?
Do you really think blacks or Hispanics could get away with that?
Case against Cliven Bundy, Nevada rancher involved in 2014 armed standoff, declared a mistrial

Remember Katrina?
Blacks "loot" but whites "find"?

So anytime your kind makes these arguments, I look at where they are coming from.

“Your kind”? You sound like a bigot.

I’m not making an argument, I’m stating a fact.

Jail survey: 7 in 10 felons register as Democrats

In fact it is so important for Democrats to restore felons voting rights, that they push for it in most every state. Virginia for one, Democrats Just Won A Massive Victory For Voting Rights In Virginia | HuffPost

Pretty simple facts. Democrats portray themselves as victims, criminals will portray themselves as victims.

Yea, your kind.

I gave you multiple reasons why you are looking through the eyes of a bigot and TA DA! You prove I'm right.

A white guy selling drugs to pay for his habit has a disease. He needs "help".

A black guy selling drugs to pay for his habit is a criminal who needs to go to jail.

How do we know? Look at the Opiod crises.

Nut job how am I a bigot. You commented that criminals vote overwhelmingly GOP, I gave you facts that proved you made a wrong statement. You make a statement “your kind” and now I am bigot? I called BS on your statement and I understand you being pissed for being proven wrong.

Now you just flat out lied. Don't worry. I'm not surprised. Your kind does that.

 

[Godboy]

You do realize criminals vote Democrat over Republican by a significant margin. In 2014 it was 7 out of 10 were Democrats but you always seem to distort the truth.

Oh please, get real.

How many unarmed whites are shot by police?

Remember Cliven Bundy and the armed stand off with state troopers?
Do you really think blacks or Hispanics could get away with that?
Case against Cliven Bundy, Nevada rancher involved in 2014 armed standoff, declared a mistrial

Remember Katrina?
Blacks "loot" but whites "find"?

So anytime your kind makes these arguments, I look at where they are coming from.

“Your kind”? You sound like a bigot.

I’m not making an argument, I’m stating a fact.

Jail survey: 7 in 10 felons register as Democrats

In fact it is so important for Democrats to restore felons voting rights, that they push for it in most every state. Virginia for one, Democrats Just Won A Massive Victory For Voting Rights In Virginia | HuffPost

Pretty simple facts. Democrats portray themselves as victims, criminals will portray themselves as victims.

Yea, your kind.

I gave you multiple reasons why you are looking through the eyes of a bigot and TA DA! You prove I'm right.

A white guy selling drugs to pay for his habit has a disease. He needs "help".

A black guy selling drugs to pay for his habit is a criminal who needs to go to jail.

How do we know? Look at the Opiod crises.

Drug deals in the black communities are often more violent and lead to more deaths than in the white communities. That's besides the fact judges rule on just more than the crime at hand. They use testimony by the police on how the subject cooperated with them. They judge how the defendant dresses for court or his or her demeanor during trial. The judge has information on how the suspect interacted with police once inside the police station. And most of all, a judge decides if a person will be a problem in the future or not based on their past criminal record.

And there you go. Proving my point. How many unarmed and innocent whites are shot by Police.

For that matter, look at Cliven Bundy. A white terrorist armed and calling for insurrection. No blacks or Hispanics could get away with such activity. Cliven was treated with kid gloves.

More white people are shot by the police than black. How fucking clueless are you?

 

[deanrd]

Oh please, get real.

How many unarmed whites are shot by police?

Remember Cliven Bundy and the armed stand off with state troopers?
Do you really think blacks or Hispanics could get away with that?
Case against Cliven Bundy, Nevada rancher involved in 2014 armed standoff, declared a mistrial

Remember Katrina?
Blacks "loot" but whites "find"?

So anytime your kind makes these arguments, I look at where they are coming from.

“Your kind”? You sound like a bigot.

I’m not making an argument, I’m stating a fact.

Jail survey: 7 in 10 felons register as Democrats

In fact it is so important for Democrats to restore felons voting rights, that they push for it in most every state. Virginia for one, Democrats Just Won A Massive Victory For Voting Rights In Virginia | HuffPost

Pretty simple facts. Democrats portray themselves as victims, criminals will portray themselves as victims.

Yea, your kind.

I gave you multiple reasons why you are looking through the eyes of a bigot and TA DA! You prove I'm right.

A white guy selling drugs to pay for his habit has a disease. He needs "help".

A black guy selling drugs to pay for his habit is a criminal who needs to go to jail.

How do we know? Look at the Opiod crises.

Drug deals in the black communities are often more violent and lead to more deaths than in the white communities. That's besides the fact judges rule on just more than the crime at hand. They use testimony by the police on how the subject cooperated with them. They judge how the defendant dresses for court or his or her demeanor during trial. The judge has information on how the suspect interacted with police once inside the police station. And most of all, a judge decides if a person will be a problem in the future or not based on their past criminal record.

And there you go. Proving my point. How many unarmed and innocent whites are shot by Police.

For that matter, look at Cliven Bundy. A white terrorist armed and calling for insurrection. No blacks or Hispanics could get away with such activity. Cliven was treated with kid gloves.

More white people are shot by the police than black. How fucking clueless are you?

Yea, sure, uh huh, wow, OK

uh

shut the fuk up.

Fatally shot black Americans twice as likely as whites to be unarmed: study

 

[Papageorgio]

You do realize criminals vote Democrat over Republican by a significant margin. In 2014 it was 7 out of 10 were Democrats but you always seem to distort the truth.

Oh please, get real.

How many unarmed whites are shot by police?

Remember Cliven Bundy and the armed stand off with state troopers?
Do you really think blacks or Hispanics could get away with that?
Case against Cliven Bundy, Nevada rancher involved in 2014 armed standoff, declared a mistrial

Remember Katrina?
Blacks "loot" but whites "find"?

So anytime your kind makes these arguments, I look at where they are coming from.

“Your kind”? You sound like a bigot.

I’m not making an argument, I’m stating a fact.

Jail survey: 7 in 10 felons register as Democrats

In fact it is so important for Democrats to restore felons voting rights, that they push for it in most every state. Virginia for one, Democrats Just Won A Massive Victory For Voting Rights In Virginia | HuffPost

Pretty simple facts. Democrats portray themselves as victims, criminals will portray themselves as victims.

Yea, your kind.

I gave you multiple reasons why you are looking through the eyes of a bigot and TA DA! You prove I'm right.

A white guy selling drugs to pay for his habit has a disease. He needs "help".

A black guy selling drugs to pay for his habit is a criminal who needs to go to jail.

How do we know? Look at the Opiod crises.

Nut job how am I a bigot. You commented that criminals vote overwhelmingly GOP, I gave you facts that proved you made a wrong statement. You make a statement “your kind” and now I am bigot? I called BS on your statement and I understand you being pissed for being proven wrong.

Now you just flat out lied. Don't worry. I'm not surprised. Your kind does that.

Where did I lie? Either put up or shut up.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

What I was implying was that the act of selling someone drugs, in and of itself, is a victimless crime.

Try telling that to my friend who's sons funeral was two weekends ago.

The fact that your friend now has a deeply charged emotional reason to disagree with me doesn't make me wrong. The fact that his recent loss would also make this an awkward conversation also doesn't make me wrong.

If someone chooses, of their own volition, to buy drugs, that's on them. Not the dealer, the buyer. If they decide to use a greater amount than is safe, also on them. Drug users have agency.

I didn't say it was entirely the dealers fault, but it takes two to Tango.

All those killings in Chicago and Detroit? Yes, many of them due to drug sales. When a person kills themselves with drugs, they bought those drugs from somebody, and that somebody is at least partly responsible for the deaths his product produced.

At this point, is there anybody who doesn't know that drugs are bad for your health? Sorry, but I disagree that the drug dealer shares responsibility for the actions of other people when they ought to know good and God damn well what they're putting into their bodies.

As far as drug related violent crimes, I also don't attribute these to all dealers. There are oil billionaires funding wars, but I ain't pissed off at the guy pumping my gas at Chevron for the violence in the middle east. I'm not mad at lighter fluid manufacturers because arsonists misuse their products, and I'm not looking to ban automobiles because of the thousands of people who die every year operating them.

If those comparisons are too far afield, here's one closer to home. . . I don't hold the cashier at my local liquor store responsible for domestic violence.

Ultimately, when people commit violent crimes, punish them for those crimes. Don't punish people who are making an honest living selling people a product that they voluntarily put in their bodies just because -other- people who use and or sell that product are criminals.

Besides, decriminalization allows dealers to go to the police to settle potentially violent disputes without fear of incarceration which tends to tone down the violence between competitors and essentially takes the power over the industry out of the hands of violent gangsters. That's why, even though Al Capone was known for murdering his liquor peddling competitors in the street during prohibition, in today's America Miller and Coors aren't dynamiting each other's warehouses.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Yeah, when I say fiscally conservative, I mean generally opposed to wealth redistribution. Tax cuts are directly in line with this motive.

Granted, this only refers to the portion of the right wing spectrum where you'd find most American conservatives. I get that fascists are generally socialists.

I think the right wing is simply clueless and Causeless; and have nothing but socialism on a national basis.

Financing tax cuts is simple income redistribution.

Eh, I fail to see how letting someone keep the wealth they create is redistribution of anything.

Though, I do wonder sometimes if the left and the right are just talking past each other on this point. Perhaps you mean something different by redistribution.

When right wingers say they're opposed to redistribution of wealth, what they mean is that they are opposed to the government taking wealth created by one entity and awarding it to another. Thus, tax cuts don't qualify. Tax cuts are the government refraining from taking that wealth altogether, which necessarily eliminates the possibility of that wealth being redistributed.

Nobody takes the right wing seriously about economics. The tax cuts were financed and added to the debt; there were no cuts in spending except for token amounts from the poor; after the rich got richer faster.

The republican politicians are too inept, spineless and divided to actually cut any spending. That doesn't mean that the real people comprising the right wing don't want significant reductions in government spending. They're just convinced enough that tax cuts would improve the economy that, even if the cuts don't happen, most right wingers are content to see the tax cuts happen and then hope that either the reduced revenue pressures the government into cutting spending down the road or that the expected economic upturn allows us to grow out of the deficit.

Granted, the typical right wing view has its severe logical holes, but so does the left. Most blatantly, a lot of right wingers refuse to even consider touching military spending, and a lot of left wingers refuse to consider touching social security. When it comes to economics, you can't really take any political wing or party seriously. By and large, political demographics are defined by their ideologies and moral values, and, unfortunately for the human desire for the world to conform to emotional preconceptions, economics doesn't seem to have any respect for morals or ideology.

The effect of tax cuts on the economy usually last only till investors see the large deficits that result because most tax cuts don't pay for themselves without large cuts in spending which rarely happens. Congress and the administration will make much ado about reforming this, that, and the other but it won't offset the costs of building walls around the country, infrastructure spending, the war on terror, the opioid epidemic, healthcare, and other pressing needs.

The costs of building walls and infrastructure, fighting terror and opioids, the cost of healthcare insofar as the government is paying it. . . those things are only the responsibility of the businesses and investors if and when they get taxed to pay for those things. Therefore, the very tax cuts in question directly offset the investors' and businesses' liability for those items, which means it's not fear of those items that cools economic activity after a tax break.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Now you're painting all conservatives being on board with the extremists. Most right wingers, at least in this country, believe in universalism and individualism. The fact that the people at the bottom of the social hierarchy tend to get shit on isn't unique to capitalism, it's a function of the human condition.

They only pay lip service. Our alleged wars on crime, drugs, and terror are simple socialism on a national, and international basis.

Personally, I agree with that take, and I'd add to that list the war on poverty, which ultimately boils down to redistributive coddling and generally puts zero effort to actually upwardly mobilizing anyone, and all effort into making people as comfortable as possible in pseudo-impoverished stasis.

That said, it's not a desire for socialistic policy that makes right wingers support the wars on crime and drugs, but rather social conservatism that, insofar as right wingers do support that war, simply outweighs their desire for decentralized economics. Most people that support these wars pay little consideration to the economic aspects of them at all.

With the war on terror, it's just simple threat perception. People tend to get hawkish when they perceive a threat to their values. Right wingers, right or wrong, tend to perceive Islamic terror to be the greatest currently active threat to those values and, insofar as they support the war on terror, simply place more importance on the protection of those values than on the economic implications of the implementation of that defense.

Providing for the general welfare is in our Constitution, providing for the general warfare is not.

In all fairness, the wars on crime, drugs, and terror are every bit as valid as the war on poverty in terms of promoting the general welfare. Positive sounding and poorly implemented economic black holes.

No, they aren't. We have a Second Amendment.

So we have the right to attempt to defend ourselves. We also have the right to attempt to pull ourselves out of poverty, so, yeah, equally invalid war.

 

[danielpalos]

They only pay lip service. Our alleged wars on crime, drugs, and terror are simple socialism on a national, and international basis.

Personally, I agree with that take, and I'd add to that list the war on poverty, which ultimately boils down to redistributive coddling and generally puts zero effort to actually upwardly mobilizing anyone, and all effort into making people as comfortable as possible in pseudo-impoverished stasis.

That said, it's not a desire for socialistic policy that makes right wingers support the wars on crime and drugs, but rather social conservatism that, insofar as right wingers do support that war, simply outweighs their desire for decentralized economics. Most people that support these wars pay little consideration to the economic aspects of them at all.

With the war on terror, it's just simple threat perception. People tend to get hawkish when they perceive a threat to their values. Right wingers, right or wrong, tend to perceive Islamic terror to be the greatest currently active threat to those values and, insofar as they support the war on terror, simply place more importance on the protection of those values than on the economic implications of the implementation of that defense.

Providing for the general welfare is in our Constitution, providing for the general warfare is not.

In all fairness, the wars on crime, drugs, and terror are every bit as valid as the war on poverty in terms of promoting the general welfare. Positive sounding and poorly implemented economic black holes.

No, they aren't. We have a Second Amendment.

So we have the right to attempt to defend ourselves. We also have the right to attempt to pull ourselves out of poverty, so, yeah, equally invalid war.

There is no general warfare clause or common offense clause; there is a general welfare clause.

 

[Flopper]

I think the right wing is simply clueless and Causeless; and have nothing but socialism on a national basis.

Financing tax cuts is simple income redistribution.

Eh, I fail to see how letting someone keep the wealth they create is redistribution of anything.

Though, I do wonder sometimes if the left and the right are just talking past each other on this point. Perhaps you mean something different by redistribution.

When right wingers say they're opposed to redistribution of wealth, what they mean is that they are opposed to the government taking wealth created by one entity and awarding it to another. Thus, tax cuts don't qualify. Tax cuts are the government refraining from taking that wealth altogether, which necessarily eliminates the possibility of that wealth being redistributed.

Nobody takes the right wing seriously about economics. The tax cuts were financed and added to the debt; there were no cuts in spending except for token amounts from the poor; after the rich got richer faster.

The republican politicians are too inept, spineless and divided to actually cut any spending. That doesn't mean that the real people comprising the right wing don't want significant reductions in government spending. They're just convinced enough that tax cuts would improve the economy that, even if the cuts don't happen, most right wingers are content to see the tax cuts happen and then hope that either the reduced revenue pressures the government into cutting spending down the road or that the expected economic upturn allows us to grow out of the deficit.

Granted, the typical right wing view has its severe logical holes, but so does the left. Most blatantly, a lot of right wingers refuse to even consider touching military spending, and a lot of left wingers refuse to consider touching social security. When it comes to economics, you can't really take any political wing or party seriously. By and large, political demographics are defined by their ideologies and moral values, and, unfortunately for the human desire for the world to conform to emotional preconceptions, economics doesn't seem to have any respect for morals or ideology.

The effect of tax cuts on the economy usually last only till investors see the large deficits that result because most tax cuts don't pay for themselves without large cuts in spending which rarely happens. Congress and the administration will make much ado about reforming this, that, and the other but it won't offset the costs of building walls around the country, infrastructure spending, the war on terror, the opioid epidemic, healthcare, and other pressing needs.

The costs of building walls and infrastructure, fighting terror and opioids, the cost of healthcare insofar as the government is paying it. . . those things are only the responsibility of the businesses and investors if and when they get taxed to pay for those things. Therefore, the very tax cuts in question directly offset the investors' and businesses' liability for those items, which means it's not fear of those items that cools economic activity after a tax break.

Get real. The cost of paying for building walls, infrastructure, fighting terrorism the opioid crisis, the rising cost of healthcare, and other items on the Trump agenda are not going to be paid for by businesses and investors. It's going to paid for by the federal government because congress is not going to levy new taxes or drastically cut federal spending. The result will be trillions of dollars in deficits and a lot more debt. The treasury just announced it's getting ready to borrow a trillion dollars and congress has not even got started on Trumps's spending plans.

 

[Bush92]

What can and or will be done about it politically?
In keeping with current board rhetoric let's not be scared to get real honest here.
Our poor are our worst parents...they create more of their same.
Our poor suck the most government tit.
Our poor commits the most crime.
Our poor does the most drugs.
Our poor drinks and smokes the most.
Our poor have the most children they can't afford.
Our poor litters and vandalizes the most.
Our poor drives uninsured.
Our poor commits the most animal cruelty.
I could go on and on...and no Libby's, let's not deflect and divert to Wall Street criminals, big corporations..blah, blah, blah...Let's get real, let's get serious about our taxpayer draining bottom feeders....Whatta ya say?

More guns for gangs in housing projects and more tornadoes for trailer parks.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What I was implying was that the act of selling someone drugs, in and of itself, is a victimless crime.

Try telling that to my friend who's sons funeral was two weekends ago.

The fact that your friend now has a deeply charged emotional reason to disagree with me doesn't make me wrong. The fact that his recent loss would also make this an awkward conversation also doesn't make me wrong.

If someone chooses, of their own volition, to buy drugs, that's on them. Not the dealer, the buyer. If they decide to use a greater amount than is safe, also on them. Drug users have agency.

I didn't say it was entirely the dealers fault, but it takes two to Tango.

All those killings in Chicago and Detroit? Yes, many of them due to drug sales. When a person kills themselves with drugs, they bought those drugs from somebody, and that somebody is at least partly responsible for the deaths his product produced.

At this point, is there anybody who doesn't know that drugs are bad for your health? Sorry, but I disagree that the drug dealer shares responsibility for the actions of other people when they ought to know good and God damn well what they're putting into their bodies.

As far as drug related violent crimes, I also don't attribute these to all dealers. There are oil billionaires funding wars, but I ain't pissed off at the guy pumping my gas at Chevron for the violence in the middle east. I'm not mad at lighter fluid manufacturers because arsonists misuse their products, and I'm not looking to ban automobiles because of the thousands of people who die every year operating them.

If those comparisons are too far afield, here's one closer to home. . . I don't hold the cashier at my local liquor store responsible for domestic violence.

Ultimately, when people commit violent crimes, punish them for those crimes. Don't punish people who are making an honest living selling people a product that they voluntarily put in their bodies just because -other- people who use and or sell that product are criminals.

Besides, decriminalization allows dealers to go to the police to settle potentially violent disputes without fear of incarceration which tends to tone down the violence between competitors and essentially takes the power over the industry out of the hands of violent gangsters. That's why, even though Al Capone was known for murdering his liquor peddling competitors in the street during prohibition, in today's America Miller and Coors aren't dynamiting each other's warehouses.

If decriminalization is the answer, why to decriminalize rape, robbery and murder?

People who sell or give products to others that hurt themselves are liable. That's why when you buy a product today, the first five pages are idiotic warnings like not to take your new toaster in the shower with you.

If a bartender over serves a patron and that patron gets into a car accident, the injured person or family can sue the bar out of business. Why do you think businesses got rid of office parties where they provided alcoholic beverages? If you are younger, you probably don't even remember those days.

Even tobacco companies got sued for hundreds of millions of dollars, and people who used tobacco knew quite well the harm and dangers.

You can't sue the local pusher, but he or she is just as responsible for a death as the person they sold to. If a doctor is caught over prescribing opioid products to his or her patients, they too can be sued and even lose their license to practice medicine.

When you sell somebody a product that you know is likely going to cause death--especially an illegal product, that is a violent crime.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

“Your kind”? You sound like a bigot.

I’m not making an argument, I’m stating a fact.

Jail survey: 7 in 10 felons register as Democrats

In fact it is so important for Democrats to restore felons voting rights, that they push for it in most every state. Virginia for one, Democrats Just Won A Massive Victory For Voting Rights In Virginia | HuffPost

Pretty simple facts. Democrats portray themselves as victims, criminals will portray themselves as victims.

Yea, your kind.

I gave you multiple reasons why you are looking through the eyes of a bigot and TA DA! You prove I'm right.

A white guy selling drugs to pay for his habit has a disease. He needs "help".

A black guy selling drugs to pay for his habit is a criminal who needs to go to jail.

How do we know? Look at the Opiod crises.

Drug deals in the black communities are often more violent and lead to more deaths than in the white communities. That's besides the fact judges rule on just more than the crime at hand. They use testimony by the police on how the subject cooperated with them. They judge how the defendant dresses for court or his or her demeanor during trial. The judge has information on how the suspect interacted with police once inside the police station. And most of all, a judge decides if a person will be a problem in the future or not based on their past criminal record.

And there you go. Proving my point. How many unarmed and innocent whites are shot by Police.

For that matter, look at Cliven Bundy. A white terrorist armed and calling for insurrection. No blacks or Hispanics could get away with such activity. Cliven was treated with kid gloves.

More white people are shot by the police than black. How fucking clueless are you?

Yea, sure, uh huh, wow, OK

uh

shut the fuk up.

Fatally shot black Americans twice as likely as whites to be unarmed: study

He is correct. If you bothered to read the link I posted, it's right there in front of you.