How Jesus became god'... from not being one. Bart Ehrman.

[esalla]

true theist do not require a particular deity for anything -

you just deny the spiritual content of physiology that does not conform to your christian bible ... and obviously have never surmounted adversity to acquire an inalterable victory. to know the difference.

Why would I need a deity to explain physiology? Many subjects can be explained without one. A deity comes in with religion and with the study of origins of life and our universe in terms of science. Also, when we discuss objective morality.

With physiology, we find how our bodies work except there are differences between how western and eastern beliefs developed. Also, what we know today and believe is much different from the past. What are you going to add with your evolutionary physiology?

What is the physiology of schizophrenia?

A problem in the transmitter substances in the metabolism of the brain - specially the substance dopamin is a problem in this context. In general have about 50% of all human beings during their lifetime a minimum of 1 schizophrenic boost. It's by the way wrong that schizophrenic people are more dangerous than others. They are as criminal and/or violent as anyone else.

Wrong as usual. 1 percent of humans typically are effected with schizophrenia, not to say that 50 percent of the people in your family are not effected though.

Jesus the clueless are clueless

The relative number of schizophrenic people is in all societies of the world the same. Indeed we can use the ideas and behavior of a society in context with its schizophrenic people and their work for this people for a measurement of the quality of a society. And without any doubt about 50% of all people have a minimum of one time in their life a schizophrenic boost: worldwide.

And to the absolute impertinent typical US-American asshole in you, which is full of hate and idiotic political propanda let me say: I never use alcohol and/or drugs and I am very very careful with medicine. I use medicine only in cases it is important to do so. And wether it is important to use medicine or not is not deciding me.

And you are right: the clueless are clueless. But no one needs Jesus to find this out. To be an idiot is enough to find out this "wisdom".

Again on Earth 1 percent of people have schizophrenia like you do

true theist do not require a particular deity for anything -

you just deny the spiritual content of physiology that does not conform to your christian bible ... and obviously have never surmounted adversity to acquire an inalterable victory. to know the difference.

Why would I need a deity to explain physiology? Many subjects can be explained without one. A deity comes in with religion and with the study of origins of life and our universe in terms of science. Also, when we discuss objective morality.

With physiology, we find how our bodies work except there are differences between how western and eastern beliefs developed. Also, what we know today and believe is much different from the past. What are you going to add with your evolutionary physiology?

What is the physiology of schizophrenia?

A problem in the transmitter substances in the metabolism of the brain - specially the substance dopamin is a problem in this context. In general have about 50% of all human beings during their lifetime a minimum of 1 schizophrenic boost. It's by the way wrong that schizophrenic people are more dangerous than others. They are as criminal and/or violent as anyone else.

Wrong as usual. 1 percent of humans typically are effected with schizophrenia, not to say that 50 percent of the people in your family are not effected though.

Jesus the clueless are clueless

The relative number of schizophrenic people is in all societies of the world the same. Indeed we can use the ideas and behavior of a society in context with its schizophrenic people and their work for this people for a measurement of the quality of a society. And without any doubt about 50% of all people have a minimum of one time in their life a schizophrenic boost: worldwide.

And to the absolute impertinent typical US-American asshole in you, which is full of hate and idiotic political propanda let me say: I never use alcohol and/or drugs and I am very very careful with medicine. I use medicine only in cases it is important to do so. And wether it is important to use medicine or not is not deciding me.

And you are right: the clueless are clueless. But no one needs Jesus to find this out. To be an idiot is enough to find out this "wisdom".

Schizophrenia Symptoms, Patterns and Statistics and Patterns

Schizophrenia is not a terribly common disease but it can be a serious and chronic one. Worldwide about 1 percent of the population is diagnosed with

www.mentalhelp.net

Again 1 percent have schizophrenia, which is a permanent disease not a boost whatever the hell that is

no comment

No comment because I am clearly running with the ball

no comment

Technically genius, no comment is a comment as it parlays pertinent information about your mental state

Next

 

[alang1216]

Laws are logical. They exist for reasons. One of which is to establish order from chaos.

I think you have it backwards, you've reversed cause and effect. Establishing order from chaos is the effect of the laws, it is not the cause. Laws exist and because they do they create order from chaos.

No. I haven't got it backwards. Establishing order from chaos is the effect of the laws. See no reversing cause and effect. Order from chaos is the reason the laws exist. Their purpose is to produce beings that know and create.

"Establishing order from chaos is the effect of the laws" - right
"Order from chaos is the reason the laws exist." - "Chaos" doesn't cause the laws does it? What does?

 

[ding]

Laws are logical. They exist for reasons. One of which is to establish order from chaos.

I think you have it backwards, you've reversed cause and effect. Establishing order from chaos is the effect of the laws, it is not the cause. Laws exist and because they do they create order from chaos.

No. I haven't got it backwards. Establishing order from chaos is the effect of the laws. See no reversing cause and effect. Order from chaos is the reason the laws exist. Their purpose is to produce beings that know and create.

.

No. I haven't got it backwards. Establishing order from chaos is the effect of the laws. See no reversing cause and effect. Order from chaos is the reason the laws exist. Their purpose is to produce beings that know and create.

.
that's because cyclical events establish the laws - big bang.
.

Their purpose is to produce beings that know and create.

.
- all beings know and create.

The only time you have ever been right about anything is when you realized you were wrong about everything.

.

The only time you have ever been right about anything is when you realized you were wrong about everything.

.
what being other than yourself does not - know and create ... after all your instances you must have at least one example. surly.

How many other beings - besides humans - are capable of abstract thought?

 

[ding]

...

No. I haven't got it backwards. Establishing order from chaos is the effect of the laws. See no reversing cause and effect. Order from chaos is the reason the laws exist. Their purpose is to produce beings that know and create.

Natural laws have no purpose. Gravity binds you on Earth, because you produce gravity on your own. That's all.

Says you. I say they serve a purpose which is to create order from chaos.

 

[ding]

What do I not know in this context?

That life happened by accident. If the design of matter preordained life, then it's no accident. It's predetermined.

"Accident" is also predeterminated. With space, time and energy came also all natural laws. We know now since about 100 years that "accident" has not only to do with mistakes of our perception or logic. It is part of quantum mechanics. The experiment "Schrödingers cat" for example bases on real accident. It's very nice, that we do not have to look always for a reason why something happens what's bad or good. But this means not that always everything is only accidental. Someone can have the evil intention for example to shoot someone down, he can make a plan and realize this plan. Then nothing is accidental in this context.

Life is not predestined in sense of the theory of evolution. That's one of the strange things. Freedom (=chance) is predestined. And somehow is life a growing of the degrees of freedom.

Predestined in the sense that it was inevitable through and by the laws of nature.

The natural law evolution says not that life has inevitably to come into this universe here. Why do you think so? Because the natural law evolution existed since the very first moment of the universe, like all other natural laws?

If I take a look at our planet than I see some life - sometimes also desserts, water desserts in the oceans, ice desserts. Difficult situations for life. And the planet Earth is in the middle of a habitable zone of a stable star in a nearly circular orbit. Only a little paradox inclination of the Earth axis in the double planet system Earth and Moon causes seasons. ... Hmm ... what to say about other places in the universe? I don't know. His idea is full of romance - but seems not to be plausible.,

George Wald: Life and Mind in the Universe

I do not have the time now in the moment to read this link to Mr. Elijah Wald. I don't know this man and I do not like to meet him now in the moment.

We do not know whether other universes exist or not. And as it looks like we never will be able to know this.

Everything is manifested through consciousness. I think, therefore, I am.

Many think and therefore they are idiots.

PS: Multi-cellular organisms - that's what we normally call "life" - started to exist since about 1/2 to 3/4 of a billion years. The Earth is much older - and if it is true that we are the "crown of gods creation" - what I believe - then we are fully responsible for all and every life on planet Earth.

Intelligence as in beings that know and create are the pinnacle of creation. Consciousness is the most complex thing the universe has produced.

Or it has "produced" (evolved) many things which are much more complex. How to know this? If you take a look at the color red for example then you will have indeed a very complex psychological background. Same with the color blue. The strange thing in this context is the total different quality of blue and red within our psychological world - while it is in the physical world all around us for example a very little difference in the wavelength of electromagnetic waves. Physically for example we all will die - we can see the dead bodies of others - but psychologically we never will die, because we lose our perception before we are dead. So in case it exists a life after death, then we will not remember our own death.

Anyone who would scoff at or dismiss this has never really thought it through.

Are you sure you have thought "it" through, (whatever this "it" is in your mind)?

If you won't read it then you are ignorant about what we are discussing and I can't help you. Suffice it to say intelligence arising is no accident. It was predestined.

George Wald: Life and Mind in the Universe

 

[ding]

Laws are logical. They exist for reasons. One of which is to establish order from chaos.

I think you have it backwards, you've reversed cause and effect. Establishing order from chaos is the effect of the laws, it is not the cause. Laws exist and because they do they create order from chaos.

No. I haven't got it backwards. Establishing order from chaos is the effect of the laws. See no reversing cause and effect. Order from chaos is the reason the laws exist. Their purpose is to produce beings that know and create.

"Establishing order from chaos is the effect of the laws" - right
"Order from chaos is the reason the laws exist." - "Chaos" doesn't cause the laws does it? What does?

Mind

 

[alang1216]

It is delusional asf to think the universe itself produced or created something. We already discussed the universe is both space and time and that could not have started by itself in nature. It had to be supernatural.

Maybe it was supernatural. That in no way leads to the God of the Bible. There is just as much evidence that the Flying Spaghetti Monster was responsible.

 

[zaangalewa]

Erhman has been refuted so many times it's a wonder anybody would run around claiming he's some great 'scholar'. Darrell Bock alone has shut him down literally every time Bock bothered to critique his books, as well as Elaine Pagels and the rest of the fake 'scholars' from the Gnostic revivalist scam. The Peanut Gallery can start with Bock's The Missing Gospels, a work explaining to lay people from a secular point of view why the various popular modern claims of the original orthodoxy being 'falsified' is rubbish and nonsense by merely using textual analysis and historical records. From there it gets very easy to prove the Erhman claims are total rubbish.

.

- from a secular point of view why the various popular modern claims of the original orthodoxy being 'falsified' is rubbish and nonsense by merely using textual analysis and historical records.

there is no original orthodoxy from the 1st century the falsification is the orthodoxy made up in the 4th century.

the same example applies, sicko -

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
.
forgeries and fallacies brought to your attention previously. the same pattern for all three desert religions - the ten commandments etched by the Almighty never existed.

I don't know why so many people in the USA misunderstand this sentences. Only god - and no one else - speaks the final judgement. Jesus - the son of god - said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." So not you, not I nor anyone else - only Jesus, true god from true god, is the one who is able to say: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.".

Example: "The philosopher" of Christians was for long centuries Aristotle, "the interpreter" (of the philosophy of Aristotle) was Averroes. Aristotle was a pagan "atheist" (the early Christians were also called "atheists"), Averroes was a Muslim. So who cared about? Truth is always true - independent from the person, who speaks out the truth. In case of Aristotle and Averroes we speak about the founder of all modern universities today.

 

[alang1216]

Laws are logical. They exist for reasons. One of which is to establish order from chaos.

I think you have it backwards, you've reversed cause and effect. Establishing order from chaos is the effect of the laws, it is not the cause. Laws exist and because they do they create order from chaos.

No. I haven't got it backwards. Establishing order from chaos is the effect of the laws. See no reversing cause and effect. Order from chaos is the reason the laws exist. Their purpose is to produce beings that know and create.

"Establishing order from chaos is the effect of the laws" - right
"Order from chaos is the reason the laws exist." - "Chaos" doesn't cause the laws does it? What does?

Mind

Circular reasoning. Laws cause mind so mind must cause laws.

 

[zaangalewa]

... Maybe it was supernatural. That in no way leads to the God of the Bible. There is just as much evidence that the Flying Spaghetti Monster was responsible.

Instead of super-natural use the word meta-physics then everything is more clear. In a christian liberary existed books about physics and meta-physics stood other books. Poetry is for example able to be called meta-physics. Augustinus said about 1700 years ago that wonders don't hurt the laws of physics - wonders hurt only our understanding of the laws of physics.

 

[zaangalewa]

Laws are logical. They exist for reasons. One of which is to establish order from chaos.

I think you have it backwards, you've reversed cause and effect. Establishing order from chaos is the effect of the laws, it is not the cause. Laws exist and because they do they create order from chaos.

No. I haven't got it backwards. Establishing order from chaos is the effect of the laws. See no reversing cause and effect. Order from chaos is the reason the laws exist. Their purpose is to produce beings that know and create.

"Establishing order from chaos is the effect of the laws" - right
"Order from chaos is the reason the laws exist." - "Chaos" doesn't cause the laws does it? What does?

Mind

Circular reasoning. Laws cause mind so mind must cause laws.

Indeed chaos is a self-reflexive non linear form of mathematics (=a living order on a higher level of more simple forms of order). In general the problem is always the same: The "spirituality" of physics is mathematics.

-----
Im Anfang war das Chaos. Es war ein unendlicher, gähnender Weltenabgrund, nicht hell noch dunkel, nicht warm noch kalt, weder tönend noch stumm. Hätte ein Mensch wie wir sich mit Zauberflügeln durch diesen unermeßlichen Abgrund bewegen können, er hätte mit seinen irdischen Sinnen nichts gesehen, nichts gehört, nichts gefühlt. Dennoch war das Chaos nicht leer! Es war die Heimat aller Götter und Geister, urgewaltiger Wesen, die auf die große Stunde warteten, da die Schöpfung beginnen sollte. Alles, was später entstanden ist und uns heute teils sichtbar, teils unsichtbar umgibt, war schon im Chaos vorhanden: wie ein Keim ruhte es in den erhabenen Gedanken und im tatbereiten Willen der Urgötter. Kämpfe durchwogten das Chaos, wilde Kämpfe - aber ein Menschenwesen von heute, einsam und verloren im grenzenlosen Raum, hätte nichts davon wahrgenommen; denn noch wehte nicht der leiseste Hauch, noch lebte nicht der zarteste Lichtstrahl, noch war nichts vorhanden, woran die Urgötter ihre Kraft erproben und ihre Absichten erweisen konnten, weder Luft noch Feuer, weder Wasser noch Erde. Nirgends herrschte sichtbare Bewegung, nur Totenstille und Finsternis. Auch das begnadete Auge der Seher, das weiter und tiefer blickt als der Sinn gewöhnlicher Menschen, vermochte das Chaos nicht zu durchdringen. Nur bis an seine Schwelle reichte die Rückschau der Weisen und Dichter des Griechenvolkes, und keiner wusste zu sagen, was sich jenseits begab. Was sie aber sahen und kündeten, war dies: Eines Tages habe sich ein belebendes Schimmern und wärmendes Glimmen durch das ganze Chaos verbreitet, unendlich zart: das kam von Eros, dem Gott der himmlischen Liebe, dem ältesten der Götter. Sein keusches Licht belebt noch heute die ganze Schöpfung und bindet ihre Wesen, gute wie böse, untereinander; und so belebte und befruchtete es auch das Chaos, und aus diesem entspross Gaia, die Urmutter der Erde. Breitbrüstig lag sie da, mit ihren schneebedeckten Berggipfeln so recht geschaffen zum Sitz für die ewigen Götter.
-----

-----

 

[esalla]

Erhman has been refuted so many times it's a wonder anybody would run around claiming he's some great 'scholar'. Darrell Bock alone has shut him down literally every time Bock bothered to critique his books, as well as Elaine Pagels and the rest of the fake 'scholars' from the Gnostic revivalist scam. The Peanut Gallery can start with Bock's The Missing Gospels, a work explaining to lay people from a secular point of view why the various popular modern claims of the original orthodoxy being 'falsified' is rubbish and nonsense by merely using textual analysis and historical records. From there it gets very easy to prove the Erhman claims are total rubbish.

.

- from a secular point of view why the various popular modern claims of the original orthodoxy being 'falsified' is rubbish and nonsense by merely using textual analysis and historical records.

there is no original orthodoxy from the 1st century the falsification is the orthodoxy made up in the 4th century.

the same example applies, sicko -

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
.
forgeries and fallacies brought to your attention previously. the same pattern for all three desert religions - the ten commandments etched by the Almighty never existed.

I don't know why so many people in the USA misunderstand this sentences. Only god - and no one else - speaks the final judgement. Jesus - the son of god - said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." So not you, not I nor anyone else - only Jesus, true god from true god, is the one who is able to say: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.".

Example: "The philosopher" of Christians was for long centuries Aristotle, "the interpreter" (of the philosophy of Aristotle) was Averroes. Aristotle was a pagan "atheist" (the early Christians were also called "atheists"), Averroes was a Muslim. So who cared about? Truth is always true - independent from the person, who speaks out the truth. In case of Aristotle and Averroes we speak about the founder of all modern universities today.

Get medicated

 

[james bond]

Assuming God exists (do I always have to start off with that?) and He is perfect, I certainly see lots of imperfection in this world. I'd judge He's not living up to his potential. Would creation fall apart if there were no viruses?

Yes, God exists and he is perfect. It is always wrong and a sin to assume God doesn't exist, but here we are because of liberal, atheist, and evolutionary thinking. We even worship the science of atheism today. It is a sinful science of paganism that we put before real science. We were perfect creatures and God lived with us back then, but for Adam's sin against God he brought death into this life, two covenants, and more sin.

 

[esalla]

Assuming God exists (do I always have to start off with that?) and He is perfect, I certainly see lots of imperfection in this world. I'd judge He's not living up to his potential. Would creation fall apart if there were no viruses?

Yes, God exists and he is perfect. It is always wrong and a sin to assume God doesn't exist, but here we are because of liberal, atheist, and evolutionary thinking. We even worship the science of atheism today. It is a sinful science of paganism that we put before real science. We were perfect creatures and God lived with us back then, but for Adam's sin against God he brought death into this life, two covenants, and more sin.

Does god hear you when you pray?

 

[james bond]

It is delusional asf to think the universe itself produced or created something. We already discussed the universe is both space and time and that could not have started by itself in nature. It had to be supernatural.

Maybe it was supernatural. That in no way leads to the God of the Bible. There is just as much evidence that the Flying Spaghetti Monster was responsible.

You miss the obvious or your logic starts with circular reasoning. The Bible leads to the God of the Bible. How else would God have told us what happened in the beginning? Furthermore, the universe, Earth, and everything in it are here and we see that the earth layers and fossils were jumbled by a great flood. That over 7000 languages formed immediately and caused people to group together by language and their ethnicity.

 

[james bond]

Assuming God exists (do I always have to start off with that?) and He is perfect, I certainly see lots of imperfection in this world. I'd judge He's not living up to his potential. Would creation fall apart if there were no viruses?

Yes, God exists and he is perfect. It is always wrong and a sin to assume God doesn't exist, but here we are because of liberal, atheist, and evolutionary thinking. We even worship the science of atheism today. It is a sinful science of paganism that we put before real science. We were perfect creatures and God lived with us back then, but for Adam's sin against God he brought death into this life, two covenants, and more sin.

Does god hear you when you pray?

What is your point with this line of questioning? I already said as a child I prayed for a bicycle and got a bicycle.

 

[alang1216]

Assuming God exists (do I always have to start off with that?) and He is perfect, I certainly see lots of imperfection in this world. I'd judge He's not living up to his potential. Would creation fall apart if there were no viruses?

Yes, God exists and he is perfect. It is always wrong and a sin to assume God doesn't exist, but here we are because of liberal, atheist, and evolutionary thinking. We even worship the science of atheism today. It is a sinful science of paganism that we put before real science. We were perfect creatures and God lived with us back then, but for Adam's sin against God he brought death into this life, two covenants, and more sin.

You do realize that paganism is the opposite of atheism don't you?

Here's a bit of trivia I read in one of Ehrman's books. Pagans used to refer to early Christians as 'atheists' because there were so many gods that Christians didn't believe in.

 

[Picaro]

Assuming God exists (do I always have to start off with that?) and He is perfect, I certainly see lots of imperfection in this world. I'd judge He's not living up to his potential. Would creation fall apart if there were no viruses?

Yes, God exists and he is perfect. It is always wrong and a sin to assume God doesn't exist, but here we are because of liberal, atheist, and evolutionary thinking. We even worship the science of atheism today. It is a sinful science of paganism that we put before real science. We were perfect creatures and God lived with us back then, but for Adam's sin against God he brought death into this life, two covenants, and more sin.

Does god hear you when you pray?

What is your point with this line of questioning? I already said as a child I prayed for a bicycle and got a bicycle.

Some just don't like to admit that God obviously ignores total assholes and never gives them what they want.

 

[alang1216]

It is delusional asf to think the universe itself produced or created something. We already discussed the universe is both space and time and that could not have started by itself in nature. It had to be supernatural.

Maybe it was supernatural. That in no way leads to the God of the Bible. There is just as much evidence that the Flying Spaghetti Monster was responsible.

You miss the obvious or your logic starts with circular reasoning. The Bible leads to the God of the Bible. How else would God have told us what happened in the beginning? Furthermore, the universe, Earth, and everything in it are here and we see that the earth layers and fossils were jumbled by a great flood. That over 7000 languages formed immediately and caused people to group together by language and their ethnicity.

No surprise that nothing you wrote is true. However, I do appreciate the irony of your criticism of my 'circular reasoning' followed by "The Bible leads to the God of the Bible". Thanks, you're the gift that keeps on giving.

 

[alang1216]

Assuming God exists (do I always have to start off with that?) and He is perfect, I certainly see lots of imperfection in this world. I'd judge He's not living up to his potential. Would creation fall apart if there were no viruses?

Yes, God exists and he is perfect. It is always wrong and a sin to assume God doesn't exist, but here we are because of liberal, atheist, and evolutionary thinking. We even worship the science of atheism today. It is a sinful science of paganism that we put before real science. We were perfect creatures and God lived with us back then, but for Adam's sin against God he brought death into this life, two covenants, and more sin.

Does god hear you when you pray?

What is your point with this line of questioning? I already said as a child I prayed for a bicycle and got a bicycle.

Some just don't like to admit that God obviously ignores total assholes and never gives them what they want.

Life has been very good to me and Stalin died peacefully in his bed. You're either wrong about God or wrong about assholes.