How Jesus became god'... from not being one. Bart Ehrman.

[Picaro]

Assuming God exists (do I always have to start off with that?) and He is perfect, I certainly see lots of imperfection in this world. I'd judge He's not living up to his potential. Would creation fall apart if there were no viruses?

Yes, God exists and he is perfect. It is always wrong and a sin to assume God doesn't exist, but here we are because of liberal, atheist, and evolutionary thinking. We even worship the science of atheism today. It is a sinful science of paganism that we put before real science. We were perfect creatures and God lived with us back then, but for Adam's sin against God he brought death into this life, two covenants, and more sin.

You do realize that paganism is the opposite of atheism don't you?

Here's a bit of trivia I read in one of Ehrman's books. Pagans used to refer to early Christians as 'atheists' because there were so many gods that Christians didn't believe in.

Like Disraeli said, Christianity is completed Judaism. Jews didn't become monotheistic until Deutro-Isaiah, and since universalism is implicit in monotheism, Judaism became explicitly universal via Christianity.

Pagan are materialists, which is why such rubbish as Marxism and 'Social Darwinism' and 'Libertarianism' are all the same and have the same flaws; 'rationalists' are just conceited morons who adopt pagan nonsense and invent pseudo-scientific narratives designed only for bashing Da Evul Xians n Joos and trying to legitimize mindless self-indulgence and neurotic fetishism. They are not real atheists, or they wouldn't dream up such silly inanities like 'Evolution' and the like.

 

[Picaro]

Assuming God exists (do I always have to start off with that?) and He is perfect, I certainly see lots of imperfection in this world. I'd judge He's not living up to his potential. Would creation fall apart if there were no viruses?

Yes, God exists and he is perfect. It is always wrong and a sin to assume God doesn't exist, but here we are because of liberal, atheist, and evolutionary thinking. We even worship the science of atheism today. It is a sinful science of paganism that we put before real science. We were perfect creatures and God lived with us back then, but for Adam's sin against God he brought death into this life, two covenants, and more sin.

Does god hear you when you pray?

What is your point with this line of questioning? I already said as a child I prayed for a bicycle and got a bicycle.

Some just don't like to admit that God obviously ignores total assholes and never gives them what they want.

Life has been very good to me and Stalin died peacefully in his bed. You're either wrong about God or wrong about assholes.

You think Stalin prayed? lol he was a sociopath, just smarter than his enemy sociopaths is all. You probably would think of him ans a hero. And I'm not surprised you missed my point.

 

[alang1216]

Like Disraeli said, Christianity is completed Judaism. Jews didn't become monotheistic until Deutro-Isaiah, and since universalism is implicit in monotheism, Judaism became explicitly universal via Christianity.

I agree about Jewish monotheism but not the rest.

More trivia from Ehrman: Christianity began as a minor cult of Judaism but it soon diverged into two opposing camps centered on the question of did Christians have to first become Jews. The Christians in Israel believed so, those of the diaspora said no. It was Roman pagans that decided the issue by wiping out the Christian Jews of Jerusalem when the Jews revolted.

 

[alang1216]

You think Stalin prayed? lol he was a sociopath, just smarter than his enemy sociopaths is all. You probably would think of him ans a hero. And I'm not surprised you missed my point.

Stalin was indeed a sociopath but he got nearly everything he wanted while many devoutly religious people were murdered by him.

 

[Picaro]

Like Disraeli said, Christianity is completed Judaism. Jews didn't become monotheistic until Deutro-Isaiah, and since universalism is implicit in monotheism, Judaism became explicitly universal via Christianity.

I agree about Jewish monotheism but not the rest.

More trivia from Ehrman: Christianity began as a minor cult of Judaism but it soon diverged into two opposing camps centered on the question of did Christians have to first become Jews. The Christians in Israel believed so, those of the diaspora said no. It was Roman pagans that decided the issue by wiping out the Christian Jews of Jerusalem when the Jews revolted.

It was certainly trivial, since it's false. Few Christian Jews remained in Jerusalem by the time of the Revolt; they wer already scattered faer and wide, having been persecuted already, with most of them killed long before Paul was executed in Rome. The Jerusalem Jews themselves killed most of them, like his brother James and many others. The Second Jewish Revolt, the bar Kokhba revolt, finished the split and drove Christians out of the synagogues, also accompanied by massacres of Christians by Orthodox Jews and Pharisees, who made up most of the new 'Rabbis' running around. Christianity spread quickly and widely, as did most Jews who had converted.

 

[Picaro]

You think Stalin prayed? lol he was a sociopath, just smarter than his enemy sociopaths is all. You probably would think of him ans a hero. And I'm not surprised you missed my point.

Stalin was indeed a sociopath but he got nearly everything he wanted while many devoutly religious people were murdered by him.

And this means what? Most Christians know that sooner or later they will be persecuted, it's part of the deal.

 

[esalla]

Assuming God exists (do I always have to start off with that?) and He is perfect, I certainly see lots of imperfection in this world. I'd judge He's not living up to his potential. Would creation fall apart if there were no viruses?

Yes, God exists and he is perfect. It is always wrong and a sin to assume God doesn't exist, but here we are because of liberal, atheist, and evolutionary thinking. We even worship the science of atheism today. It is a sinful science of paganism that we put before real science. We were perfect creatures and God lived with us back then, but for Adam's sin against God he brought death into this life, two covenants, and more sin.

Does god hear you when you pray?

What is your point with this line of questioning? I already said as a child I prayed for a bicycle and got a bicycle.

But do you pray now and does god hear you? You already said that the holy spirit hears you and not god. Why? Lol do you also believe that god created your bicycle for you?

 

[esalla]

Assuming God exists (do I always have to start off with that?) and He is perfect, I certainly see lots of imperfection in this world. I'd judge He's not living up to his potential. Would creation fall apart if there were no viruses?

Yes, God exists and he is perfect. It is always wrong and a sin to assume God doesn't exist, but here we are because of liberal, atheist, and evolutionary thinking. We even worship the science of atheism today. It is a sinful science of paganism that we put before real science. We were perfect creatures and God lived with us back then, but for Adam's sin against God he brought death into this life, two covenants, and more sin.

Does god hear you when you pray?

What is your point with this line of questioning? I already said as a child I prayed for a bicycle and got a bicycle.

Some just don't like to admit that God obviously ignores total assholes and never gives them what they want.

Life has been very good to me and Stalin died peacefully in his bed. You're either wrong about God or wrong about assholes.

Word salad time

 

[esalla]

You think Stalin prayed? lol he was a sociopath, just smarter than his enemy sociopaths is all. You probably would think of him ans a hero. And I'm not surprised you missed my point.

Stalin was indeed a sociopath but he got nearly everything he wanted while many devoutly religious people were murdered by him.

What did stalin want

 

[ding]

Laws are logical. They exist for reasons. One of which is to establish order from chaos.

I think you have it backwards, you've reversed cause and effect. Establishing order from chaos is the effect of the laws, it is not the cause. Laws exist and because they do they create order from chaos.

No. I haven't got it backwards. Establishing order from chaos is the effect of the laws. See no reversing cause and effect. Order from chaos is the reason the laws exist. Their purpose is to produce beings that know and create.

"Establishing order from chaos is the effect of the laws" - right
"Order from chaos is the reason the laws exist." - "Chaos" doesn't cause the laws does it? What does?

Mind

Circular reasoning. Laws cause mind so mind must cause laws.

No. Not circular reason. A logical conclusion.

The only solution to the first cause is the incorporeal. Matter and energy cannot be an eternal source. That should be obvious.

Mind, rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create.

"...If I say, with Eddington, “the stuff of the world is mind‑stuff,” that has a metaphysical ring. But if I say that ultimate reality is expressed in the solutions of the equations of quantum mechanics, quantum electrodynamics, and quantum field theory -- that sounds like good, modern physics. Yet what are those equations, indeed what is mathematics, but mind‑stuff? -- virtually the ultimate in mind‑stuff and for that reason deeply mysterious..." George Wald

 

[ding]

Laws are logical. They exist for reasons. One of which is to establish order from chaos.

I think you have it backwards, you've reversed cause and effect. Establishing order from chaos is the effect of the laws, it is not the cause. Laws exist and because they do they create order from chaos.

No. I haven't got it backwards. Establishing order from chaos is the effect of the laws. See no reversing cause and effect. Order from chaos is the reason the laws exist. Their purpose is to produce beings that know and create.

"Establishing order from chaos is the effect of the laws" - right
"Order from chaos is the reason the laws exist." - "Chaos" doesn't cause the laws does it? What does?

Mind

Circular reasoning. Laws cause mind so mind must cause laws.

Indeed chaos is a self-reflexive non linear form of mathematics (=a living order on a higher level of more simple forms of order). In general the problem is always the same: The "spirituality" of physics is mathematics.

"...If I say, with Eddington, “the stuff of the world is mind‑stuff,” that has a metaphysical ring. But if I say that ultimate reality is expressed in the solutions of the equations of quantum mechanics, quantum electrodynamics, and quantum field theory -- that sounds like good, modern physics. Yet what are those equations, indeed what is mathematics, but mind‑stuff? -- virtually the ultimate in mind‑stuff and for that reason deeply mysterious..." George Wald

George Wald: Life and Mind in the Universe

 

[alang1216]

Like Disraeli said, Christianity is completed Judaism. Jews didn't become monotheistic until Deutro-Isaiah, and since universalism is implicit in monotheism, Judaism became explicitly universal via Christianity.

I agree about Jewish monotheism but not the rest.

More trivia from Ehrman: Christianity began as a minor cult of Judaism but it soon diverged into two opposing camps centered on the question of did Christians have to first become Jews. The Christians in Israel believed so, those of the diaspora said no. It was Roman pagans that decided the issue by wiping out the Christian Jews of Jerusalem when the Jews revolted.

It was certainly trivial, since it's false. Few Christian Jews remained in Jerusalem by the time of the Revolt; they wer already scattered faer and wide, having been persecuted already, with most of them killed long before Paul was executed in Rome. The Jerusalem Jews themselves killed most of them, like his brother James and many others. The Second Jewish Revolt, the bar Kokhba revolt, finished the split and drove Christians out of the synagogues, also accompanied by massacres of Christians by Orthodox Jews and Pharisees, who made up most of the new 'Rabbis' running around. Christianity spread quickly and widely, as did most Jews who had converted.

You may be right about some of the timings since what I wrote was not just taken from Ehrman.

I think it is safe to say most Jews did not convert and became targets of Christians. Christianity grew by conversions of pagans. It was still a small minority of the Roman world until Constantine.

 

[esalla]

Like Disraeli said, Christianity is completed Judaism. Jews didn't become monotheistic until Deutro-Isaiah, and since universalism is implicit in monotheism, Judaism became explicitly universal via Christianity.

I agree about Jewish monotheism but not the rest.

More trivia from Ehrman: Christianity began as a minor cult of Judaism but it soon diverged into two opposing camps centered on the question of did Christians have to first become Jews. The Christians in Israel believed so, those of the diaspora said no. It was Roman pagans that decided the issue by wiping out the Christian Jews of Jerusalem when the Jews revolted.

It was certainly trivial, since it's false. Few Christian Jews remained in Jerusalem by the time of the Revolt; they wer already scattered faer and wide, having been persecuted already, with most of them killed long before Paul was executed in Rome. The Jerusalem Jews themselves killed most of them, like his brother James and many others. The Second Jewish Revolt, the bar Kokhba revolt, finished the split and drove Christians out of the synagogues, also accompanied by massacres of Christians by Orthodox Jews and Pharisees, who made up most of the new 'Rabbis' running around. Christianity spread quickly and widely, as did most Jews who had converted.

You may be right about some of the timings since what I wrote was not just taken from Ehrman.

I think it is safe to say most Jews did not convert and became targets of Christians. Christianity grew by conversions of pagans. It was still a small minority of the Roman world until Constantine.

When was schizophrenia discovered

 

[alang1216]

You think Stalin prayed? lol he was a sociopath, just smarter than his enemy sociopaths is all. You probably would think of him ans a hero. And I'm not surprised you missed my point.

Stalin was indeed a sociopath but he got nearly everything he wanted while many devoutly religious people were murdered by him.

And this means what? Most Christians know that sooner or later they will be persecuted, it's part of the deal.

Some just don't like to admit that they may be wrong when they say God obviously ignores total assholes and never gives them what they want.

 

[alang1216]

Like Disraeli said, Christianity is completed Judaism. Jews didn't become monotheistic until Deutro-Isaiah, and since universalism is implicit in monotheism, Judaism became explicitly universal via Christianity.

I agree about Jewish monotheism but not the rest.

More trivia from Ehrman: Christianity began as a minor cult of Judaism but it soon diverged into two opposing camps centered on the question of did Christians have to first become Jews. The Christians in Israel believed so, those of the diaspora said no. It was Roman pagans that decided the issue by wiping out the Christian Jews of Jerusalem when the Jews revolted.

It was certainly trivial, since it's false. Few Christian Jews remained in Jerusalem by the time of the Revolt; they wer already scattered faer and wide, having been persecuted already, with most of them killed long before Paul was executed in Rome. The Jerusalem Jews themselves killed most of them, like his brother James and many others. The Second Jewish Revolt, the bar Kokhba revolt, finished the split and drove Christians out of the synagogues, also accompanied by massacres of Christians by Orthodox Jews and Pharisees, who made up most of the new 'Rabbis' running around. Christianity spread quickly and widely, as did most Jews who had converted.

You may be right about some of the timings since what I wrote was not just taken from Ehrman.

I think it is safe to say most Jews did not convert and became targets of Christians. Christianity grew by conversions of pagans. It was still a small minority of the Roman world until Constantine.

When was schizophrenia discovered

We'll have to get back to you on that.

 

[esalla]

Like Disraeli said, Christianity is completed Judaism. Jews didn't become monotheistic until Deutro-Isaiah, and since universalism is implicit in monotheism, Judaism became explicitly universal via Christianity.

I agree about Jewish monotheism but not the rest.

More trivia from Ehrman: Christianity began as a minor cult of Judaism but it soon diverged into two opposing camps centered on the question of did Christians have to first become Jews. The Christians in Israel believed so, those of the diaspora said no. It was Roman pagans that decided the issue by wiping out the Christian Jews of Jerusalem when the Jews revolted.

It was certainly trivial, since it's false. Few Christian Jews remained in Jerusalem by the time of the Revolt; they wer already scattered faer and wide, having been persecuted already, with most of them killed long before Paul was executed in Rome. The Jerusalem Jews themselves killed most of them, like his brother James and many others. The Second Jewish Revolt, the bar Kokhba revolt, finished the split and drove Christians out of the synagogues, also accompanied by massacres of Christians by Orthodox Jews and Pharisees, who made up most of the new 'Rabbis' running around. Christianity spread quickly and widely, as did most Jews who had converted.

You may be right about some of the timings since what I wrote was not just taken from Ehrman.

I think it is safe to say most Jews did not convert and became targets of Christians. Christianity grew by conversions of pagans. It was still a small minority of the Roman world until Constantine.

When was schizophrenia discovered

We'll have to get back to you on that.

No problem Sybil, I will wait

 

[alang1216]

The only solution to the first cause is the incorporeal. Matter and energy cannot be an eternal source. That should be obvious.

I might agree if I had ever seen either being created.

Mind, rather than emerging as a late outgrowth in the evolution of life, has existed always as the matrix, the source and condition of physical reality - that the stuff of which physical reality is composed is mind-stuff. It is Mind that has composed a physical universe that breeds life, and so eventually evolves creatures that know and create.

Which pill did you take?

 

[alang1216]

You think Stalin prayed? lol he was a sociopath, just smarter than his enemy sociopaths is all. You probably would think of him ans a hero. And I'm not surprised you missed my point.

Stalin was indeed a sociopath but he got nearly everything he wanted while many devoutly religious people were murdered by him.

What did stalin want

Absolute power. And he got it.

 

[alang1216]

Word salad time

You just want to undress me with your words.

 

[esalla]

You think Stalin prayed? lol he was a sociopath, just smarter than his enemy sociopaths is all. You probably would think of him ans a hero. And I'm not surprised you missed my point.

Stalin was indeed a sociopath but he got nearly everything he wanted while many devoutly religious people were murdered by him.

What did stalin want

Absolute power. And he got it.

So how come the kids without parents didnt get the bike and family they prayed for.