How Much of a Theist or Atheist are You?

[james bond]

Which ones? Links?

Here is a start.

Ha ha. Ehrman is looney tunes, liar and a false witness. 3 strikes you're out. He's also liberal, too.

 

[james bond]

Where is the original book John wrote? The Bible was written centuries after. Hearsay

Before I can give you an answer, just where are you getting this hearsay?

Most biblical scholars admit that Peter Paul and Luke didn't write the Bible's.

Which ones? Links? I got an answer, but you're avoiding answering my question.

Did Jesus exist?

Amazingly, the question of an actual historical Jesus rarely confronts the religious believer. The power of faith has so forcefully driven the minds of most believers, and even apologetic scholars, that the question of reliable evidence gets obscured by tradition, religious subterfuge, and outrageous claims. The following gives a brief outlook about the claims of a historical Jesus and why the evidence the Christians present us cannot serve as justification for reliable evidence for a historical Jesus.

ALL CLAIMS OF JESUS DERIVE FROM HEARSAY ACCOUNTS

No one has the slightest physical evidence to support a historical Jesus; no artifacts, dwelling, works of carpentry, or self-written manuscripts. All claims about Jesus derive from writings of other people. There occurs no contemporary Roman record that shows Pontius Pilate executing a man named Jesus. Devastating to historians, there occurs not a single contemporary writing that mentions Jesus. All documents about Jesus came well after the life of the alleged Jesus from either: unknown authors, people who had never met an earthly Jesus, or from fraudulent, mythical or allegorical writings. Although one can argue that many of these writings come from fraud or interpolations, I will use the information and dates to show that even if these sources did not come from interpolations, they could still not serve as reliable evidence for a historical Jesus, simply because all sources about Jesus derive from hearsay accounts.

Eyewitness accounts. These people were there with Jesus. However, you base your worldview on an unknown writer on nobeliefs.com? sealybobo, after all this you base your worldview on some blogger opinions? I misjudged you badly.

 

[BreezeWood]

In scripture ... are descriptive metaphors for ordinary people that reflect the heights and depths of human potential.

that's the point, you keep referring to different books, characters and descriptive discrepancies meant for interpretation but have no physical material from the time for either verification or reference. the sole source for your information is a late 4th century book that itself has no reference for its material..

Thats not true at all. What the romans redacted for widespread publication in the fourth century was compiled from material that was written hundreds of years earlier that they could never comprehend without having the keys to understanding. Aside from that there exists volumes of material from the first century that sheds light on Jewish thought belief and expression based on the instruction in the Torah, not to mention the known historical context and volumes of commentaries on those events.

Knowing that Jesus lived during a time of brutal Roman oppression when there was no such thing as freedom of expression and people were killed and maimed on a daily basis for trivial reasons it should be obvious that what he was teaching to the oppressed was in a strange language, codified vernacular, that went over their superstitious and illiterate foreign oppressors heads long before anything was ever written down..

that 4th century corruption of the 1st century religion is long overdue for correction,

When a car breaks down do you abandon it at the junk yard and expect it to be returned to you in good running condition?

.

What the romans redacted for widespread publication in the fourth century was compiled from material that was written hundreds of years earlier that they could never comprehend without having the keys to understanding.

The important point to know is that it was God the Father who had others pen what he wanted to say and witnessed.

it was God the Father who had others pen what they wanted to say and witnessed ...


if that were so the documents would be available to "read" if that were the intent as stated. the fact that non of the documents exist is proof enough there never was an intent for a scriptural religion than by those that were using the 1st century event for their own interests.

the spoken religion is all that was ever meant to be as even today christianity is followed by most not by the mirror image of their book but the messages spoken between themselves to reach their goals and for the path to the Everlasting. it is the specific 4th century scriptures that people recognize as the corruptions to the actual religion.

 

[sealybobo]

So 33 of us really don't believe and ten do?

And last night I was in a house with two believers and three non believers.

I believe at least 60% if you have an honest discussion don't believe. They'll admit they hope but believe it's wishful thinking

 

[hobelim]

If Jesus of Nazereth actually existed as a small cult leader then his story has been embellished over time greatly.

So.

Given the historical reality of the worldwide and long lasting effect that small cult leader of no account has had on "the nations" for good and evil, his claims of of having been given authority by God over life and death, to bless or to curse, according to the story that is, was not just hubris from a fairy tale character...

Do you also believe in Angels, ghosts and demons. Really?

Yes, really.


In scripture, angels and demons and all the wild beasts of the field, whether clean or unclean, are descriptive metaphors for ordinary people that reflect the heights and depths of human potential.


Do you not believe in scumbags, er, demons? really? Have you not been paying attention to politics?

Have you never been visited by an angel?

If you were looking for evidence of invisible beings you wouldn't know if one was standing right in front of you either striking you with blindness or setting your head on fire, would you.

I was reading about the French Revolution. The French Revolution completely changed the social and political structure of France. It put an end to the French monarchy, feudalism, and took political power from the Catholic church.

Ok, so do you know the history of Christianity? I do. The Catholic Church is/was very corrupt. For thousands of years. That's a fact. So, knowing this history, why would anyone believe this religions Jesus stories?

This is how I know Christianity is pure bullshit. What you are asked to believe is unbelievable and a real god wouldn't make this the test for getting into heaven.

Christianity was in existence for hundreds of years before the catholic church received its power and authority from caesar and was assimilated and perverted by Rome..

Let me make a suggestion.

Try to differentiate between what is actually written in scripture and church doctrine and dogma established by superstitious people thousands of years ago who knew nothing of literary techniques or Jewish expression and teaching..


What is it that you think that you are asked to believe that is so unbelievable?

 

[sealybobo]

If Jesus of Nazereth actually existed as a small cult leader then his story has been embellished over time greatly.

So.

Given the historical reality of the worldwide and long lasting effect that small cult leader of no account has had on "the nations" for good and evil, his claims of of having been given authority by God over life and death, to bless or to curse, according to the story that is, was not just hubris from a fairy tale character...

Do you also believe in Angels, ghosts and demons. Really?

Yes, really.


In scripture, angels and demons and all the wild beasts of the field, whether clean or unclean, are descriptive metaphors for ordinary people that reflect the heights and depths of human potential.


Do you not believe in scumbags, er, demons? really? Have you not been paying attention to politics?

Have you never been visited by an angel?

If you were looking for evidence of invisible beings you wouldn't know if one was standing right in front of you either striking you with blindness or setting your head on fire, would you.

I was reading about the French Revolution. The French Revolution completely changed the social and political structure of France. It put an end to the French monarchy, feudalism, and took political power from the Catholic church.

Ok, so do you know the history of Christianity? I do. The Catholic Church is/was very corrupt. For thousands of years. That's a fact. So, knowing this history, why would anyone believe this religions Jesus stories?

This is how I know Christianity is pure bullshit. What you are asked to believe is unbelievable and a real god wouldn't make this the test for getting into heaven.

Christianity was in existence for hundreds of years before the catholic church received its power and authority from caesar and was assimilated and perverted by Rome..

Let me make a suggestion.

Try to differentiate between what is actually written in scripture and church doctrine and dogma established by superstitious people thousands of years ago who knew nothing of literary techniques or Jewish expression and teaching..


What is it that you think that you are asked to believe that is so unbelievable?

Virgin birth.

My point is if your church was perverted 1000 years ago who's to say it's not all made up? If church is used to control people that's probably why it was invented in the first place

 

[sealybobo]

Why follow a religion you don't believe? Why would they want me as a member?

 

[hobelim]

If Jesus of Nazereth actually existed as a small cult leader then his story has been embellished over time greatly.

So.

Given the historical reality of the worldwide and long lasting effect that small cult leader of no account has had on "the nations" for good and evil, his claims of of having been given authority by God over life and death, to bless or to curse, according to the story that is, was not just hubris from a fairy tale character...

Do you also believe in Angels, ghosts and demons. Really?

Yes, really.


In scripture, angels and demons and all the wild beasts of the field, whether clean or unclean, are descriptive metaphors for ordinary people that reflect the heights and depths of human potential.


Do you not believe in scumbags, er, demons? really? Have you not been paying attention to politics?

Have you never been visited by an angel?

If you were looking for evidence of invisible beings you wouldn't know if one was standing right in front of you either striking you with blindness or setting your head on fire, would you.

I was reading about the French Revolution. The French Revolution completely changed the social and political structure of France. It put an end to the French monarchy, feudalism, and took political power from the Catholic church.

Ok, so do you know the history of Christianity? I do. The Catholic Church is/was very corrupt. For thousands of years. That's a fact. So, knowing this history, why would anyone believe this religions Jesus stories?

This is how I know Christianity is pure bullshit. What you are asked to believe is unbelievable and a real god wouldn't make this the test for getting into heaven.

Christianity was in existence for hundreds of years before the catholic church received its power and authority from caesar and was assimilated and perverted by Rome..

Let me make a suggestion.

Try to differentiate between what is actually written in scripture and church doctrine and dogma established by superstitious people thousands of years ago who knew nothing of literary techniques or Jewish expression and teaching..


What is it that you think that you are asked to believe that is so unbelievable?

Virgin birth.

My point is if your church was perverted 1000 years ago who's to say it's not all made up? If church is used to control people that's probably why it was invented in the first place

Have you ever considered that the story of the virgin birth was made for children but conceals a hidden teaching meant for adults if they ever grow some teeth and learn to ruminate? Did you throw the story of the three pigs in the trash because swine can't talk or build houses? If you did you would have never learned the moral of the story.


Again, the NT was written hundreds of years before their interpretations were usurped by Rome, the enemy of Jesus, his disciples, and the authors of the NT long after all those who held the keys to the secrets of the kingdom of Heaven were ruthlessly slaughtered.

Jesus was executed for sedition and fomenting insurrection against both Rome and the established religious authorities. Read the damn story, he was openly flipping off both church and state.


Think!

Of course the spin of his enemies rendered his teachings incomprehensible and even offensive to rational people by burying his revelation under a mountain of blasphemy.

 

[hobelim]

Why follow a religion you don't believe?

Mind control? Brainwashing? Fear from threats of real and imaginary violence? ? what the ancients called sorcery?

Why would they want me as a member?

to steal 10% of your income and your vote for life ?

 

[BreezeWood]

.
curious, why they despise Free Spirits calling them Liberals (the one's fed to the lions) ... all the desert religion's histories are atrocious from that time to the present.

 

[hobelim]

.
curious, why they despise Free Spirits calling them Liberals (the one's fed to the lions) ... all the desert religion's histories are atrocious from that time to the present.

"Thus far, the spirits of truth and perversity have been struggling in the heart of man. Men have walked both in wisdom and folly. If a man casts his portion with the truth, he does righteously and hates perversity; if he casts it with perversity, he does wickedly and abominates truth"

 

[sealybobo]

If Jesus of Nazereth actually existed as a small cult leader then his story has been embellished over time greatly.

So.

Given the historical reality of the worldwide and long lasting effect that small cult leader of no account has had on "the nations" for good and evil, his claims of of having been given authority by God over life and death, to bless or to curse, according to the story that is, was not just hubris from a fairy tale character...

Do you also believe in Angels, ghosts and demons. Really?

Yes, really.


In scripture, angels and demons and all the wild beasts of the field, whether clean or unclean, are descriptive metaphors for ordinary people that reflect the heights and depths of human potential.


Do you not believe in scumbags, er, demons? really? Have you not been paying attention to politics?

Have you never been visited by an angel?

If you were looking for evidence of invisible beings you wouldn't know if one was standing right in front of you either striking you with blindness or setting your head on fire, would you.

I was reading about the French Revolution. The French Revolution completely changed the social and political structure of France. It put an end to the French monarchy, feudalism, and took political power from the Catholic church.

Ok, so do you know the history of Christianity? I do. The Catholic Church is/was very corrupt. For thousands of years. That's a fact. So, knowing this history, why would anyone believe this religions Jesus stories?

This is how I know Christianity is pure bullshit. What you are asked to believe is unbelievable and a real god wouldn't make this the test for getting into heaven.

Christianity was in existence for hundreds of years before the catholic church received its power and authority from caesar and was assimilated and perverted by Rome..

Let me make a suggestion.

Try to differentiate between what is actually written in scripture and church doctrine and dogma established by superstitious people thousands of years ago who knew nothing of literary techniques or Jewish expression and teaching..


What is it that you think that you are asked to believe that is so unbelievable?

Virgin birth.

My point is if your church was perverted 1000 years ago who's to say it's not all made up? If church is used to control people that's probably why it was invented in the first place

Have you ever considered that the story of the virgin birth was made for children but conceals a hidden teaching meant for adults if they ever grow some teeth and learn to ruminate? Did you throw the story of the three pigs in the trash because swine can't talk or build houses? If you did you would have never learned the moral of the story.


Again, the NT was written hundreds of years before their interpretations were usurped by Rome, the enemy of Jesus, his disciples, and the authors of the NT long after all those who held the keys to the secrets of the kingdom of Heaven were ruthlessly slaughtered.

Jesus was executed for sedition and fomenting insurrection against both Rome and the established religious authorities. Read the damn story, he was openly flipping off both church and state.


Think!

Of course the spin of his enemies rendered his teachings incomprehensible and even offensive to rational people by burying his revelation under a mountain of blasphemy.

It's a great story no doubt. I get the message.

 

[sealybobo]

Why follow a religion you don't believe?

Mind control? Brainwashing? Fear from threats of real and imaginary violence? ? what the ancients called sorcery?

Why would they want me as a member?

to steal 10% of your income and your vote for life ?

They say atheism is dangerous? Look at the holy war we're in now. Only belief in God can make a suicide bomber. They believe they are doing what God wants.

Yes, throw the story away. It's a lie. At least admit they are just stories.

 

[james bond]

Why follow a religion you don't believe?

Mind control? Brainwashing? Fear from threats of real and imaginary violence? ? what the ancients called sorcery?

Why would they want me as a member?

to steal 10% of your income and your vote for life ?

They say atheism is dangerous? Look at the holy war we're in now. Only belief in God can make a suicide bomber. They believe they are doing what God wants.

Yes, throw the story away. It's a lie. At least admit they are just stories.

What part of atheism leads to communism do you not get? Sure, it's dangerous. We're very careful of the Russians and Chinese in terms of politics today. We may as well toss in atheists to this list to be watchful of. The liberals and atheists want to take our guns away and they will only do that from my cold dead hands, but not without a huge stink and fight first. That's why I say for good folks to gather up all the guns and ammo that they can. I will be buying a semi-auto rifle. Maybe two and teach my family how to use it.

 

[BreezeWood]

Why follow a religion you don't believe?

Mind control? Brainwashing? Fear from threats of real and imaginary violence? ? what the ancients called sorcery?

Why would they want me as a member?

to steal 10% of your income and your vote for life ?

They say atheism is dangerous? Look at the holy war we're in now. Only belief in God can make a suicide bomber. They believe they are doing what God wants.

Yes, throw the story away. It's a lie. At least admit they are just stories.

What part of atheism leads to communism do you not get? Sure, it's dangerous. We're very careful of the Russians and Chinese in terms of politics today. We may as well toss in atheists to this list to be watchful of. The liberals and atheists want to take our guns away and they will only do that from my cold dead hands, but not without a huge stink and fight first. That's why I say for good folks to gather up all the guns and ammo that they can. I will be buying a semi-auto rifle. Maybe two and teach my family how to use it.

.

The liberals and atheists want to take our guns away and they will only do that from my cold dead hands, but not without a huge stink and fight first.

how it must have grieved you when they made you take off your hood ...

That's why I say for good folks to gather up all the guns and ammo that they can. I will be buying a semi-auto rifle. Maybe two and teach my family how to use it.

oops, I guess those good folks haven't gotten the memo yet.

 

[sealybobo]

Why follow a religion you don't believe?

Mind control? Brainwashing? Fear from threats of real and imaginary violence? ? what the ancients called sorcery?

Why would they want me as a member?

to steal 10% of your income and your vote for life ?

They say atheism is dangerous? Look at the holy war we're in now. Only belief in God can make a suicide bomber. They believe they are doing what God wants.

Yes, throw the story away. It's a lie. At least admit they are just stories.

What part of atheism leads to communism do you not get? Sure, it's dangerous. We're very careful of the Russians and Chinese in terms of politics today. We may as well toss in atheists to this list to be watchful of. The liberals and atheists want to take our guns away and they will only do that from my cold dead hands, but not without a huge stink and fight first. That's why I say for good folks to gather up all the guns and ammo that they can. I will be buying a semi-auto rifle. Maybe two and teach my family how to use it.

.

The liberals and atheists want to take our guns away and they will only do that from my cold dead hands, but not without a huge stink and fight first.

how it must have grieved you when they made you take off your hood ...

That's why I say for good folks to gather up all the guns and ammo that they can. I will be buying a semi-auto rifle. Maybe two and teach my family how to use it.

oops, I guess those good folks haven't gotten the memo yet.

When you are a greedy stupid white rich racist christian conservative American you don't see anything wrong with it and you see anyone who isn't like you as bad.

I love it how he thinks atheism has anything to do with communism. What he means is liberals want our government to provide us citizens some social services and if our government does anything like try to make healthcare affordable then we are socialists.

I can see why Christians and whites are upset. They're losing power.

 

[hobelim]

So.

Given the historical reality of the worldwide and long lasting effect that small cult leader of no account has had on "the nations" for good and evil, his claims of of having been given authority by God over life and death, to bless or to curse, according to the story that is, was not just hubris from a fairy tale character...



Yes, really.


In scripture, angels and demons and all the wild beasts of the field, whether clean or unclean, are descriptive metaphors for ordinary people that reflect the heights and depths of human potential.


Do you not believe in scumbags, er, demons? really? Have you not been paying attention to politics?

Have you never been visited by an angel?

If you were looking for evidence of invisible beings you wouldn't know if one was standing right in front of you either striking you with blindness or setting your head on fire, would you.

I was reading about the French Revolution. The French Revolution completely changed the social and political structure of France. It put an end to the French monarchy, feudalism, and took political power from the Catholic church.

Ok, so do you know the history of Christianity? I do. The Catholic Church is/was very corrupt. For thousands of years. That's a fact. So, knowing this history, why would anyone believe this religions Jesus stories?

This is how I know Christianity is pure bullshit. What you are asked to believe is unbelievable and a real god wouldn't make this the test for getting into heaven.

Christianity was in existence for hundreds of years before the catholic church received its power and authority from caesar and was assimilated and perverted by Rome..

Let me make a suggestion.

Try to differentiate between what is actually written in scripture and church doctrine and dogma established by superstitious people thousands of years ago who knew nothing of literary techniques or Jewish expression and teaching..


What is it that you think that you are asked to believe that is so unbelievable?

Virgin birth.

My point is if your church was perverted 1000 years ago who's to say it's not all made up? If church is used to control people that's probably why it was invented in the first place

Have you ever considered that the story of the virgin birth was made for children but conceals a hidden teaching meant for adults if they ever grow some teeth and learn to ruminate? Did you throw the story of the three pigs in the trash because swine can't talk or build houses? If you did you would have never learned the moral of the story.


Again, the NT was written hundreds of years before their interpretations were usurped by Rome, the enemy of Jesus, his disciples, and the authors of the NT long after all those who held the keys to the secrets of the kingdom of Heaven were ruthlessly slaughtered.

Jesus was executed for sedition and fomenting insurrection against both Rome and the established religious authorities. Read the damn story, he was openly flipping off both church and state.


Think!

Of course the spin of his enemies rendered his teachings incomprehensible and even offensive to rational people by burying his revelation under a mountain of blasphemy.

It's a great story no doubt. I get the message.

If you got the message you would not be deprecating believers for taking the stories literally and you would not be dismissing the stories as nonsense.

Your heart would be filled with compassion.

You would be revealing the real meaning of the stories rationally, giving life and freedom from captivity to the dead (in hells keeping).

 

[hobelim]

They say atheism is dangerous? Look at the holy war we're in now. Only belief in God can make a suicide bomber. They believe they are doing what God wants.

Only a despicable person, a bonafide devil, would deceive a gullible person into blowing up themselves along with as many innocent people as they can in the name of God.

A gullible person would only think God wants them to do that because they had been deceived or had been driven insane. The real problem is not a belief in God it is the lack of education and the absence of critical thinking that opens people to falling for the lies of obviously evil, pretentious, greedy, and corrupt men whose only concern is leading smooth and easy lives off the blood and suffering of their victims, er, followers...whether religious or political.

Belief in God is really not required.You must have noticed that people who follow no religion and do not have any belief in God can be every bit as despicable as the most corrupt religious fundamentalist bullshit artist out there..

Yes, throw the story away. It's a lie. At least admit they are just stories.

lol,,, you just said;

"It's a great story no doubt. I get the message."


make up your mind please.

 

[hobelim]

The way I see it, you have more of a belief in God, karma, honesty, ethics or something than anyone who collects 10% of someone else's income and then tells them that God was wearing diapers on christmas morning so if they want to live forever they have to get down on their knees, pray to a statue, and eat a cracker for spiritual life..

Who on earth that really believed in God and the final judgement would do that?

Would anyone who really believed in God wage war against all other religions and regard all people as infidels who refuse to submit to the ravings of a hallucinating violent desert warlord who had a thing for prepubescent girls?


If a man fills his mind with the truth, he does righteously and hates perversity; if he fills it with perversity, he does wickedly and abominates truth.

 

[BreezeWood]

.
curious, why they despise Free Spirits calling them Liberals (the one's fed to the lions) ... all the desert religion's histories are atrocious from that time to the present.

"Thus far, the spirits of truth and perversity have been struggling in the heart of man. Men have walked both in wisdom and folly. If a man casts his portion with the truth, he does righteously and hates perversity; if he casts it with perversity, he does wickedly and abominates truth"

.

... if he casts it with perversity, he does wickedly and abominates truth"

hob, how is someone suppose to respond to a quote that has not been attributed to its source ... the quote is subversive, what is perversion is that anyone that does not worship your 4th century bible.

If you got the message you would not be deprecating believers for taking the stories literally and you would not be dismissing the stories as nonsense.

you seem to have a reading comprehension problem when you are asked to verify your stories, individual books ever existed and why the ones chosen in the 4th century were the ones chosen when there is not a literal meaning to any of them or an appendix showing which stories were left out. -

or just show the original documents from when they were "written" - or explain what happened to them, as someone like bond the magnificent may have thought they were by liberals and destroyed them.


how about a sequel to your book explaining just what you believe the non literal messages actually mean ... being supposedly the purpose for the book in the first place. * if it is interpretive how was it meant by the Almighty.