How much worse would citizens be? 7 cops fire 65 rounds and hit nobody

[SavannahMann]

Yes. You read that right. A total of 67 rounds were fired and nobody was hit. Two from the baddie resulted in cops firing some 65 shots in return. The baddie emerged two hours later and surrendered. He was unharmed. So how much worse could a citizen with a gun do?

7 San Francisco Police Officers Fired 65 Shots At Murder Suspect

So 65 rounds went where? Not in the bad guy. That much is certain. So where did those bullets end up? Tell me again how I should trust the cops because they are trained way more than the average citizen. How could a citizen do worse than spraying 65 rounds all over the damned city?

 

[toobfreak]

Yes. You read that right. A total of 67 rounds were fired and nobody was hit. Two from the baddie resulted in cops firing some 65 shots in return. The baddie emerged two hours later and surrendered. He was unharmed. So how much worse could a citizen with a gun do?

7 San Francisco Police Officers Fired 65 Shots At Murder Suspect

So 65 rounds went where? Not in the bad guy. That much is certain. So where did those bullets end up? Tell me again how I should trust the cops because they are trained way more than the average citizen. How could a citizen do worse than spraying 65 rounds all over the damned city?

I can miss just as well as any cop with no concern for where those bullets go! Funny, when I trained to carry a gun, I was taught to take careful aim and squeeze off my bullets when I knew I had my target to conserve them and make them effective, not to just spray the area, empty my cartridge and hope I hit something!

 

[Ringel05]

Yes. You read that right. A total of 67 rounds were fired and nobody was hit. Two from the baddie resulted in cops firing some 65 shots in return. The baddie emerged two hours later and surrendered. He was unharmed. So how much worse could a citizen with a gun do?

7 San Francisco Police Officers Fired 65 Shots At Murder Suspect

So 65 rounds went where? Not in the bad guy. That much is certain. So where did those bullets end up? Tell me again how I should trust the cops because they are trained way more than the average citizen. How could a citizen do worse than spraying 65 rounds all over the damned city?

Never been in a firefight, have ya........ Especially when you can't see the opponent(s).
On average with law enforcement round to hit ratio is roughly 30% nationwide and that's considered good.
On the range I have a 70% overall hit ratio which is considered excellent but I'm not under stress, the lighting is consistent (except when we do night simulation shooting) and I don't have weather factors to contend.

 

[SavannahMann]

Yes. You read that right. A total of 67 rounds were fired and nobody was hit. Two from the baddie resulted in cops firing some 65 shots in return. The baddie emerged two hours later and surrendered. He was unharmed. So how much worse could a citizen with a gun do?

7 San Francisco Police Officers Fired 65 Shots At Murder Suspect

So 65 rounds went where? Not in the bad guy. That much is certain. So where did those bullets end up? Tell me again how I should trust the cops because they are trained way more than the average citizen. How could a citizen do worse than spraying 65 rounds all over the damned city?

Never been in a firefight, have ya........ Especially when you can't see the opponent(s).
On average with law enforcement round to hit ratio is roughly 30% nationwide and that's considered good.
On the range I have a 70% overall hit ratio which is considered excellent but I'm not under stress, the lighting is consistent (except when we do night simulation shooting) and I don't have weather factors to contend.

I’ve been in a couple firefights. The low hit ratio is why the FBI is switching back to 9MM as their issue weapon. More ammo, and thus a greater chance of actually hitting the baddie.

So how much worse can a citizen do?

 

[shockedcanadian]

My two cents, and this might not be popular with people; I'd prefer to see more former military be police officers. I'm not talking about the guy coming back with PTSD, but the average soldier looking for a career.

I've seen so many videos of former soldiers who are actually LESS trigger happy, and I would assume, with no fact based studies to back it up, that they are a better shot if they need to be. One particular video a former soldier who joined the police didn't shoot an armed man who had a gun to his own head, as he didn't feel threatened, the man eventually gave up and arrested in one piece, but the officer was fired for NOT shooting him. His logic was that he had been in dozens of situations in Iraq and he was comfortable knowing the difference between a threat and one that wasn't, he wasn't going to give this man "suicide by cop".

It wasn't results oriented decision to fire him, but a strict policy decision, which I think is unfortunate. I have also seen videos where a cop waited too long before shooting a woman who attacked him with a knife. I felt bad for the cop as he warned her, screaming loud, almost begging her not to attack him, but she didn't listen. She had mental problems and I felt the cop waited too long, he just didn't want to have to do it, but he made it out in one piece. I wasn't in his shoes and I didn't have to take the shot to take a life, in the end, he killed her, but you knew it was on his conscience. I deeply respect a guy like that, as you know he respects life, and won't go Dirty Harry on someone.

Anyways. You want officers with the courage to deal with threats (we know soldiers possess that), who are well trained and skilled, and, have the emotional demeanor to deal with the average citizen in society, which is 99% of the time.

 

[Moonglow]

A damn good excuse to carry grenades...

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Yes. You read that right. A total of 67 rounds were fired and nobody was hit. Two from the baddie resulted in cops firing some 65 shots in return. The baddie emerged two hours later and surrendered. He was unharmed. So how much worse could a citizen with a gun do?

7 San Francisco Police Officers Fired 65 Shots At Murder Suspect

So 65 rounds went where? Not in the bad guy. That much is certain. So where did those bullets end up? Tell me again how I should trust the cops because they are trained way more than the average citizen. How could a citizen do worse than spraying 65 rounds all over the damned city?

Obviously you're unaware of how stupid the thread premise is.

 

[Desperado]

Sounds like the gunfights they used to have on the tv series the A-Team
300 bullets fired and no one is hit

 

[Ringel05]

Yes. You read that right. A total of 67 rounds were fired and nobody was hit. Two from the baddie resulted in cops firing some 65 shots in return. The baddie emerged two hours later and surrendered. He was unharmed. So how much worse could a citizen with a gun do?

7 San Francisco Police Officers Fired 65 Shots At Murder Suspect

So 65 rounds went where? Not in the bad guy. That much is certain. So where did those bullets end up? Tell me again how I should trust the cops because they are trained way more than the average citizen. How could a citizen do worse than spraying 65 rounds all over the damned city?

Never been in a firefight, have ya........ Especially when you can't see the opponent(s).
On average with law enforcement round to hit ratio is roughly 30% nationwide and that's considered good.
On the range I have a 70% overall hit ratio which is considered excellent but I'm not under stress, the lighting is consistent (except when we do night simulation shooting) and I don't have weather factors to contend.

I’ve been in a couple firefights. The low hit ratio is why the FBI is switching back to 9MM as their issue weapon. More ammo, and thus a greater chance of actually hitting the baddie.

So how much worse can a citizen do?

Since most citizen involved shootings occur within a five foot range the hit ratio is obviously much higher.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Sounds like the gunfights they used to have on the tv series the A-Team
300 bullets fired and no one is hit

Or a GI Joe cartoon where the jets are hit but you always see the parachute come out at the last minute "phew, no one hurt once again".

 

[IsaacNewton]

Yes. You read that right. A total of 67 rounds were fired and nobody was hit. Two from the baddie resulted in cops firing some 65 shots in return. The baddie emerged two hours later and surrendered. He was unharmed. So how much worse could a citizen with a gun do?

7 San Francisco Police Officers Fired 65 Shots At Murder Suspect

So 65 rounds went where? Not in the bad guy. That much is certain. So where did those bullets end up? Tell me again how I should trust the cops because they are trained way more than the average citizen. How could a citizen do worse than spraying 65 rounds all over the damned city?

Had to have been Trump. He walked right into a hail of police gunfire and wasn't scathed. A little sweaty because you know a fat guy dodging.

 

[IsaacNewton]

Find, fix, flank, finish. Maybe these cops thought it said find Fix Flank he's Finnish. For fuck's fake sake, Fran found four fat ferrets five flights up.

 

[harmonica]

...yes, I've put out stats on police inaccuracy before
...there are multiple factors that affect your shooting in a REAL situation
...it's not easy to hit black on a stationary target 5 yards away without much practice
...it looks so close--so you think it's so easy--so that screws up your concentration, unless you practice a lot
..if the target is farther away mathematics tell you the slightest error will compound how much you will miss by

 

[charwin95]

It reminds of this incident in SC at very close range fired 4 shots.

South Carolina trooper shot unarmed man, police say - CNN

 

[SavannahMann]

Yes. You read that right. A total of 67 rounds were fired and nobody was hit. Two from the baddie resulted in cops firing some 65 shots in return. The baddie emerged two hours later and surrendered. He was unharmed. So how much worse could a citizen with a gun do?

7 San Francisco Police Officers Fired 65 Shots At Murder Suspect

So 65 rounds went where? Not in the bad guy. That much is certain. So where did those bullets end up? Tell me again how I should trust the cops because they are trained way more than the average citizen. How could a citizen do worse than spraying 65 rounds all over the damned city?

Obviously you're unaware of how stupid the thread premise is.

We’ve heard Time and time again to hat the police are uniquely trained and suited for use of force, shooting, compared to average citizens. The claim is that citizens like teachers would spray bullets all over the place hitting everything but the shooter. How could they do worse? This by the way, is hardly unique.

The police in Stockton California fired 600 rounds at bank robbers holding a hostage. Two of the robbers, and the hostage were killed. One of the robbers survived. Most of the police who were shooting could not see the baddies, and some were actually shooting around fellow cops risking shooting their buddies.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ry-chase-report-finds/?utm_term=.710edbd75dba

So how much worse could it be with a civilian shooting?

 

[SavannahMann]

...yes, I've put out stats on police inaccuracy before
...there are multiple factors that affect your shooting in a REAL situation
...it's not easy to hit black on a stationary target 5 yards away without much practice
...it looks so close--so you think it's so easy--so that screws up your concentration, unless you practice a lot
..if the target is farther away mathematics tell you the slightest error will compound how much you will miss by

I tend to shoot at half sized targets at least 25 yards away. Even with my snub nosed revolver it’s fifty feet and half sized. The problem is how you are trained. Today, the training is speed draw rapid fire. How fast can you shoot, not how well.

 

[harmonica]

...yes, I've put out stats on police inaccuracy before
...there are multiple factors that affect your shooting in a REAL situation
...it's not easy to hit black on a stationary target 5 yards away without much practice
...it looks so close--so you think it's so easy--so that screws up your concentration, unless you practice a lot
..if the target is farther away mathematics tell you the slightest error will compound how much you will miss by

I tend to shoot at half sized targets at least 25 yards away. Even with my snub nosed revolver it’s fifty feet and half sized. The problem is how you are trained. Today, the training is speed draw rapid fire. How fast can you shoot, not how well.

..we fired really old 1911A1s...god knows how old they were....we fired like on the rifle qualification--slow and rapid fire...I did much better on rapid fire because I did not have time to think...
..our rapid fire was not speed draw/quick so much....we didn't even draw
now I think they changed it a little
..I'm googling and finding 7 yards range and I think we fired that also near the end of my active duty

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

...yes, I've put out stats on police inaccuracy before
...there are multiple factors that affect your shooting in a REAL situation
...it's not easy to hit black on a stationary target 5 yards away without much practice
...it looks so close--so you think it's so easy--so that screws up your concentration, unless you practice a lot
..if the target is farther away mathematics tell you the slightest error will compound how much you will miss by

You must be a lousy shot and hang around people like yourself!

If I couldn't hit it at that range, I'd quit!

If I couldn't shoot someone in the face at that range, I would practice more!