How Solar Panels, Green Energy Increase Use Of Coal

[elektra]

Show us a post in which you have refuted my numbers concerning wind turbines or solar panels.

This is an entire thread on exactly that. A great reference.

 

[Crick]

This is an entire thread on exactly that. A great reference.

Then point to the post in this thread in which you refute my numbers.

 

[elektra]

Then point to the post in this thread in which you refute my numbers.

no

 

[Crick]

no

I thought not.

 

[elektra]

I thought not.

we finally agree, yes, you dont think

 

[Crick]

no

I showed numbers in post #11. Show us where you refuted that post. This is only post #26. It's not as if you have a lot of looking to do. I could quote every post of your since then if you like.

 

[elektra]

I showed numbers in post #11. Show us where you refuted that post. This is only post #26. It's not as if you have a lot of looking to do. I could quote every post of your since then if you like.

no

 

[Crick]

Solar Panel production is a never ending industry 100% reliant on coal. We do not and can not make solar panels without coal.

We are shutting down coal for electricity, now the biggest user of coal, is solar and wind.

Why focus on only one step in the process? Metallurgical grade silicon now needs to be processed into polysilicon. Both these processes can not be done with solar energy.

Endless manufacturing is endless pollution by coal.

Face it crick, solar and wind can not keep up with a modern economy

I have shown your numbers are pure bullshit for countless times, for years, now, with fucking links, Dumbass.

Crick the contradictor, thank you for proving your old age has gotten to your memory.

This is an entire thread on exactly that. A great reference.

no

we finally agree, yes, you dont think

no

 

[Robert W]

How. How is the most important, simplest question that has advanced our society. How does Green Energy increase the use of Coal.

It is called manufacturing. Everything is made and there is only one way to take rock (quartz) and turn into a 99.9999999999% pure polysilicon. In addition to metallurgical grade silicon there is also steel manufacturing that requires the use of coal. This is an excellent source showing the use of coal, coke, carbon, for the manufacturing of polysilicon.

Typically I do not like to quote so much from a source but it is hard to paraphrase a nicely written technical article full of fact.

In this pic I copied, we see that they use Carbon Electrodes and a Carbon reductant

https://hiddenhistorycenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/BurningCoalTreesToMakeSolarPanels.pdf

Since the early 1900s, silicon “metal” is reduced from quartz using carbon in submerged-arc furnaces, each powered by up to 45 megawatts* of electricity.
View attachment 961520
2. Why do we need to burn carbon to make solar PV? -Elemental silicon (Si) can’t be found by itself any wherein nature. It must be extracted from quartz (SiO2) using carbon (C) and heat (from an electric arc) in the “carbothermic” (carbon + heat) reduction process called “smelting.” (Si02 + 2C = Si + 2CO) Several carbon sources are used as reductants in the silicon smelting plant, which requires ~20 MWh/t of electricity, and releases CO - resulting in up to 5 - 6 tof CO2 produced per ton of metallurgical grade(mg-Si) silicon smelted. [1] Thus, the first step of solar PV production is gathering, transporting, and burning millions of tons of coal, coke and petroleum coke -along with charcoal and wood chips made from hardwood trees - to smelt >97% pure mg-Si from quartz "ore” (silica rocks).

3. Even more fossil fuels are burned later, to generate electricity for the polysilicon, ingot, wafer, cell, and module production steps shown. [21] As a result of all these processes, the solar PV industry generates megatons of CO and CO2. But as shown below (fig 4), some often-cited descriptions of solar module production omit the raw materials and smelting process from the PV supply chain which obscures the use of fossil fuels and the vast amount of deforestation necessary for solar PV production

4. Raw materials for metallurgical-grade silicon Raw materials for one ton (t) MG-Si (Kato, et. al) [37]● Quartz 2.4 t● Coal 550 kg● Oil coke 200 kg● Charcoal 600 kg● Woodchip 300 kg Raw materials for one ton (t) MG-Si (Globe) [3]● Quartz 2.8 t● Coal 1.4 t● Woodchips 2.4 t For 110,000 tpy (tons per year) MG-Si (Thorsell) [1]● Quartz 310,000 tpy● Coal, coke and anodes 195,000 tpy● Wood 185,000 tpy● Total 380,000 tpy When calculating CO2 emissions from silicon smelting, “by joint agreement” some authors exclude CO2 emissions from non-fossil sources (charcoal, wood chips), power generation, and transportation of raw material. [27]

You did a lot of work to get all of this to us all. Thanks a lot for the heavy lift you did for all of us.

 

[Crick]

Numb nuts keeps harrassing me in private message in regards to his numbers.

Fuck, how do I respond to somebody that gets everything wrong.

Metallurgical grade silicon in not used in a solar panel.
Polysilicone is used.

Says so in those damn scientific posts of mine which makes up the first few post of my OP.

With the information right under his nose crick cant get it right.

Fix your comment so that it reflects reality, crick

Polysilicon is produced from metallurgical grade silicon by a chemical purification process, called the Siemens process. This process involves distillation of volatile silicon compounds, and their decomposition into silicon at high temperatures. An emerging, alternative process of refinement uses a fluidized bed reactor. The photovoltaic industry also produces upgraded metallurgical-grade silicon (UMG-Si), using metallurgical instead of chemical purification processes.[1] When produced for the electronics industry, polysilicon contains impurity levels of less than one part per billion (ppb), while polycrystalline solar grade silicon (SoG-Si) is generally less pure. A few companies from China, Germany, Japan, Korea and the United States, such as GCL-Poly, Wacker Chemie, Tokuyama, OCI, and Hemlock Semiconductor, as well as the Norwegian headquartered REC, accounted for most of the worldwide production of about 230,000 tonnes in 2013

Polycrystalline silicon - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Crick]

what are, stupid
morons use wikipedia
especially when the process of how polysilicon is made is the basis of my OP
even dumber than using wikipedia, is not understanding that the first three or four or five posts of my thread explain how polysilicon is made
for the maggot slime crick, I posted stuff to technical for him/her to understand hence the need to go to wikipedia, as if the process is not spelled out,
moron

You might want to find someone with some education and ask them the validity of citing yourself in a discussion.

Here are the two references used for the Wikipedia info I quoted:

1. Méndez, Laura; Forniés, Eduardo; Garrain, Daniel; Pérez Vázquez, Antonio; Souto, Alejandro; Vlasenko, Timur (1 October 2021). "Upgraded metallurgical grade silicon and polysilicon for solar electricity production: A comparative life cycle assessment". Science of the Total Environment. 789: 147969. arXiv:2102.11571. Bibcode:2021ScTEn.789n7969M. doi:10.1016/j.scitotenv.2021.147969. PMID 34082204. S2CID 232013656.
2. "Solar Insight, Research note – PV production 2013: an all Asian-affair" (PDF). Bloomberg New Energy Finance. 16 April 2014. pp. 2–3. Archived (PDF) from the original on 30 June 2014.

Would you now like to claim you know more about this topic than these people or are you going to stick with your claim that metallurgical grade silicon is not used to produce solar PV panels?

This is another in an extensive series of your comments that seriously undercuts your claim to be an expert in... in anything, really.