I Don't Understand Reg Flag Laws

[White 6]

No it's not. It's an entirely different scenario and set of contexts than he, himself posited in the first place, while leveraging the very same broad vagueness criticized to justify reaching specific conclusions that are not supported by facts.

Neatly done, eh and with his typical rye humor? Yeah, I liked it too.

 

[boedicca]

How about asking the J6 political prisoners? Or the GOP candidate for WI Governor who was thrown in jail and who has been ordered by a judge to turn over his guns?

 

[boedicca]

Repubs closed the asylums, medicated the inmates & turned them out into the streets. Big Pharma paid them well for that.

No they didn't. Th Uniparty in DC voted to dismantle the mental health system after they watch "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest".

 

[boedicca]

OK…This guy sits next to you in a movie theater carrying an AR 15
You going to change seats?

View attachment 660133

Holmes had a history of mental illness. It was already illegal for him to have access to guns. The laws failed because sick people will find ways to hurt others if that is their goal.

 

[White 6]

Again, it's not "normal" for someone to do that, but we're not concerned about someone who just carries one around, we're concerned about someone who's going to hide one until he starts shooting. AFAIK, the guys openly carrying AR's around are actually not shooting any places up. If you know differently, I'd like to know.

The guy at Walmart in Texas walked across the parking lot with an uncased 16" barrel AR with magazine inserted. Under their law, he could have been taking in back on a warranty issue to turn in for service. Get all of them off the city streets. Trust me, if you guys ever get your armed revolt of the proletariat in this country it won't matter, so don't worry your pretty little head, dude. We're talking everyday stuff out of the ordinary here.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Then what is the objective, letting dangerous people roam around free after you take their guns away and hope that they don't get guns anyway or use a different weapon?

Gun confication is the objective. No one in government gives a shit about someone's mental health.

 

[Donald H]

Kyle is really an outlier and represents a problem, in that he should not have been there, but had I stupidly been there, I would have shot my way out of the situation, too. It is illustrative though, of why 18 year olds should not even own one, they have control or unfettered access to. It also shows a good reason (not due to age) non-permit holders from out of state, never be allowed in-state with their weapons loaded except for hunting or on a controlled range. Last thing you need at a civil disturbance is a bunch of half-baked out of state, armed interloping independently operating reactionaries in the offense or defense. They multiday and night mission I was only cared about a couple of things, #1 protecting our uniformed comrades in arms and our selves from attack. #2 protecting city infrastructure and the guardsmen (armed but without ammo) assigned patrolling those sites. #3 breaking up and dispersing civilian gatherings on the street, especially near and after dark. Rights to assemble didn't get much thought and rights of civilians armed on the street that we knew about were nonexistent. If you got picked up, you didn't go to jail, you went to a fenced enclosure guarded by a contingent of MPs (who were the only other guardsmen among the 1800 deployed (besides us, as the Governor's and AG's shitkickers[armed to the teeth all personal weapon locked and loaded, crew served weapons loaded on arrival at disturbance but not chambered cocked], scanning buildings and civilians onsite) with no hurry to process while operation was underway. If was a few short years after Kent State. Civilians took guardsmen planning to go home to their wives and families as a number one priority very seriously. Half the people I was with, (all combat arms on assignment, most former active duty combat arms from one branch or another of active duty in the jungles of Vietnam and many had been on civil disturbance mission after the MLK assassination. Several carrying personal ammo in case they had to expend some, but might need to turn in all issued as if none had been expended, which pissed off our Commander worse that I've ever seen a Captain piss off upon finding out at ammo turn-in. It worked and nobody had to fire a shot. We sure didn't want or trust any civilian or require their help. We simply got everybody the Fk off the streets, regardless.

I hear you.
My concern is that there could be an armed insurrection brought on by Trump if he sees it necessary.
Two big issues connected to that:

The challenge to the military would be of significant size that results in a slaughter of civilians as well as a probable lesser slaughter of military personnel.

A reluctance of soldiers to stand with their government by following orders. Their loyalty is no longer secured.

Jan.6th. came so close in that the Capitol police nearly had to resort to lethal force to protect the US congress. Had that happened, the insurgents weapons that were being kept close by would have been retrieved and the worst would have happened.

The situation is at least equally dangerous now as it was then.

 

[Donald H]

The guy at Walmart in Texas walked across the parking lot with an uncased 16" barrel AR with magazine inserted. Under their law, he could have been taking in back on a warranty issue to turn in for service. Get all of them off the city streets. Trust me, if you guys ever get your armed revolt of the proletariat in this country it won't matter, so don't worry your pretty little head, dude. We're talking everyday stuff out of the ordinary here.

he could have been taking in back on a warranty issue to turn in for service.

Can you clarify that?

 

[rightwinger]

Gun owners always whine about……Why should I be punished because others abuse their guns?

Yet when you try to pass laws restricting access to guns for those likely to harm themselves or others…..they throw a fit

 

[Meister]

To me, the overwhelming majority of mass shootings are done by people everyone who knows them says is a threat.
”The guy always creeped me out”
Keeping guns out of their hands should not be an issue

Red Flag Laws, as it stands now is too vague

 

[Meister]

Gun owners always whine about……Why should I be punished because others abuse their guns?

Yet when you try to pass laws restricting access to guns for those likely to harm themselves or others…..they throw a fit

Might help if they would prosecute the laws that are already in the books, too often they don't

 

[Donald H]

You haven't stopped beating your wife, have you?

I said quite distinctly that we have an escalating mental health crisis, which is exacerbated by pharma. I have also been quite outspoken that instead of more "sensible" (i.e. doomed to fail) gun control laws, we should find out why some young men feel so alienated and angry that they shoot other people. One big reason: lack of a decent father to teach them how to become men.

Happy belated Fathers' Day to all of the USMB Daddies.

The 'culture' of wars and killing with guns is what motivates the young men to resort to killing with their guns.
This meshs with the mental health issue and the frustration of the working class being cheated out of a piece of the American pie.

The issues have been impossible to address due to self incrimination.

Only Michael Moore has had the courage to suggest the issue of the warring culture.

All countries have young men and so have the potential, but only some countries have allowed it to escalate to an extreme. America's wars never stop!

 

[night_son]

Now, let me get this straight. There is enough evidence on someone that they are such a danger to society and to themselves that we can take their guns away through red flag laws. But, even though this person is such a danger to society, we just take their guns away and totally ignore them after that? We don't watch them or try to help them and we just let them run around loose? Without their guns they are no longer a danger to society? They can't use other weapons or they can't steal a gun from somewhere to use anyway? Americans are safe with these people who are a danger to society and to themselves when we just let them run around loose? If we have enough evidence that these people are such a danger to society that we can take their guns away but we don't have enough evidence to even get them the help they need and take them off the streets while we're doing that? We just let them continue being a danger to society but they have to be an unarmed danger (assuming they don't go out and steal a gun anyway)? Am I missing something?

The key terminal problem with and threat to individual freedom posed by red flag laws lies in giving local, state or federal government the power to determine or to define who or what behavior constitutes a "credible" threat to society. Very apparent and troubling is the inevitability this power would be wielded along political ideological lines and for personal vendettas. If red flag laws stand for dealing with firearm "threats" to our communities, then red flag laws will eventually pop up for removing vehicles, homes and other personal property from American citizens. These kinds of laws must be fought tooth and nail or we will all lose the right to own all kinds of things.

 

[Blues Man]

Now, let me get this straight. There is enough evidence on someone that they are such a danger to society and to themselves that we can take their guns away through red flag laws. But, even though this person is such a danger to society, we just take their guns away and totally ignore them after that? We don't watch them or try to help them and we just let them run around loose? Without their guns they are no longer a danger to society? They can't use other weapons or they can't steal a gun from somewhere to use anyway? Americans are safe with these people who are a danger to society and to themselves when we just let them run around loose? If we have enough evidence that these people are such a danger to society that we can take their guns away but we don't have enough evidence to even get them the help they need and take them off the streets while we're doing that? We just let them continue being a danger to society but they have to be an unarmed danger (assuming they don't go out and steal a gun anyway)? Am I missing something?

Red flag laws are an end run around due process.

 

[boedicca]

The 'culture' of wars and killing with guns is what motivates the young men to resort to killing with their guns.
This meshs with the mental health issue and the frustration of the working class being cheated out of a piece of the American pie.

The issues have been impossible to address due to self incrimination.

Only Michael Moore has had the courage to suggest the issue of the warring culture.

All countries have young men and so have the potential, but only some countries have allowed it to escalate to an extreme. America's wars never stop!

That is a complete obfuscation of the big pharma impact on the mental health of teenagers.

 

[Death-Ninja]

You're at least halfway to making the critical point White.
The 'red flag' that can be discussed includes the black AR-15 being carried around as a warning sign.
Just add to that the camo costume and the war paraphernalia hanging off them and you have a good candidate for tomorrow's killer.

Young Kyle got away with it and walked. His responsibility won't remain just two victims. He set the bar for the future in which killing with a gun is judged to be a legitimate reaction for people with a gun to protect themselves.

Good work by Kyle! Who can disagree?

Young Kyle committed the offense of logical repudiation of any argument you, or any leftist of your ilk, could muster, and the leftist Kenosha prosecutors office made them all, and a jury or Wisconsin citizens tossed them out on the courthouse steps! You riot, its not protest, its rioting, and the people killed by Kyle, all died because they made the decision to riot, and attack innocent Americans at the behest of Joe Biden and the DNC, they all died attempting murderous assault upon a kid who came to help as best he could, he came to put out fires and defend property that the local democratic party controlled government had decided to let burn! The very best they could do in defense of that hateful mentality at Kyle's trial was, "everybody takes a beating once in a while!"

 

[Blues Man]

Not really, you can appear in court and contest the forfeiture

There was no due process at Uvalde or Buffalo

The accused isn't given notice of any court hearings.

 

[Blues Man]

Gun owners always whine about……Why should I be punished because others abuse their guns?

Yet when you try to pass laws restricting access to guns for those likely to harm themselves or others…..they throw a fit

We already have a law that states anyone that has been adjudicated to be mentally ill cannot own firearms.

We don't need another one

 

[Auld Phart]

Gun owners alwayhonst peop0le?s whine about……Why should I be punished because others abuse their guns?

Yet when you try to pass laws restricting access to guns for those likely to harm themselves or others…..they throw a fit

How do you write a law that only affects criminals, and not honest people?

 

[BluesLegend]

The Constitution and Bill of Rights should be burned, all rights rescinded. That way government can keep us all safe.