I Really Wanted To Hug That Pretty Arab Woman, …But…

[protectionist]

About 10 years ago, I lived next door to a young (about 28) Arab woman. I only spoke to her 3 times. She was very attractive, nice smile, friendly, and did not wear a hijab, or any middle eastern clothing.

She heard me playing my guitar and my mandolin, on my patio (right next to hers), and complimented me. Everything deemed to point straight to a cheerful, romantic hookup beginning to happen, despite my much older age > 61 , although I looked more like 40 (I’ve always looked young for my age). Everything that is, until she told me her name. I forget now what it was, but I remember it was clearly Arabic.

So here I was falling for an Arab girl of rare beauty and grace, liked me and my music. I didn’t know if she was Muslim or not, and I couldn’t bring myself to ask her. What if she had told me she was ? And then I would have had to politely excuse myself and go into my apartment, somewhat impolitely closing the door with her standing there (not good).

It’s possible she was not Muslim. Some Arabs are Christian, although the chances were very slim. I always wondered about this. What if you meet a Muslim woman, you like her, BUT you’ll be opening a Pandora’s Box of unpredictable ramifications. One has to think about the family of this person. With non-Muslims I would hardly give the family much thought. If they didn’t approve of me, that’s their tough luck.

With Muslims however, it’s a whole nother ballgame. Non-approval from Muslim family members could mean an “honor killing” of the lady you are dating, or marrying. Or it could mean an assassination of you yourself. Wil you walk to your mailbox one day, and a car drives by, and bullets fly at you ? Or you start your car one day, and it explodes ? Lots of really bad possibilities. Some of these extreme disapproval could even come from Muslims outside the family, like radical activists, or mosque members. I’m sure some USMB egomaniacs will claim that nothing would stop them, but that just cheap talk.

I saw that woman in WalMArt one day and said hello, but I kept on walking, even though that’s not what I wanted. The consequences of a Muslim/non-Muslim pairing, are an interesting thing to contemplate. I’d say it lends itself to a lot of underestimation. What if we had a daughter. At age 9, would she be expected to be marriage-arranged to some middle-aged Muslim guy ? Would we argue about drinking alcohol, or having pork products in the kitchen ? Might I have to witness the (illegal) killing of animals on Eid al Adha ? And these are just for starters.

For Muslim men and non-Muslim women, it’s far worse. What would the Muslim guy use to beat his wife with ? A bull whip ? Cat of Nine Tails ? A large stick ? Better to contemplate these questions, than just jump right into what you could regret later.

People who haven’t read the Koran, are oblivious to what different worlds Muslims and non-Muslims live in. If you are a non-Muslim, and you marry (or even just date) a Muslim, you may be acquiring a llot more than just the one person you’re hitching up to.

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[Syriusly]

Poor little snowflake.

 

[Pogo]

Man, you sure lock yourself into a sorry-ass self-imposed prison.

You had an easy fly ball here, and you dropped it. Now you'll never know. Pre-judging a person on the basis of how their name is pronounced? REALLY?

You had, and still have, the universal icebreaker-- music. It handed you opportunity, and you ran away rather than explore it. Doesn't that make everything you worked on to get to that musical level ---- pointless?

Your preconceptions are also based on complete bullshit. "Honor" killing for example --- had nothing to do with any religion, it's a cultural artifact that FAR predates monotheistic religions, including Islam, including Christianism, including Hinduism and Sikhism, ALL of which coexist with the practice and ALL of which prohibit it. Now being that it's such an ancient cultural tradition, you already had an indication, from your neighbor's contemporary appearance, that it probably doesn't exist in her world nor would she condone it.

It's also possible she was non-religious. Ever think of that? I've had dozens and dozens of Arab friends and at no time did any of them discuss religion or demonstrate any observance of one. I presume they were (mostly) Muslim, simply based on statistics, though I don't know that for a fact, nor was it relevant to anything.

This is exactly why mass ignorance is such a dead end. You boxed yourself in here out of your own failing. No one else did that.

You blew this one bigtime, but you can avoid the same gaffe in the future by opening your mind and allowing your own preconceptions to be challenged. Now get back out there and do it right.

 

[Pogo]

I'm recalling a woman who was a co-worker of mine. She had a strange, very exotic-sounding last name. Won't post it here in the interest of privacy but I had to ask her, "what kind of name is that"? "Arabic" she answered. Never did it occur to me to then ask her about religion --- why would I do that? I didn't ask that question of the Smiths and Joneses I worked with, and she didn't bring any such thing up. It would make no sense.

I'll tell ya what though, that woman, when I needed her on my side, went all out for me. We were just co-workers, not romantically linked, but when the chips were down she had my back totally. As good and loyal a friend as I've ever had.

Good thing I didn't run the other way based on my own ignorance when she explained her name, huh? I can't even imagine boxing myself in like that.

 

[protectionist]

Man, you sure lock yourself into a sorry-ass self-imposed prison.

You had an easy fly ball here, and you dropped it. Now you'll never know. Pre-judging a person on the basis of how their name is pronounced? REALLY?

You had, and still have, the universal icebreaker-- music. It handed you opportunity, and you ran away rather than explore it. Doesn't that make everything you worked on to get to that musical level ---- pointless?

Your preconceptions are also based on complete bullshit. "Honor" killing for example --- had nothing to do with any religion, it's a cultural artifact that FAR predates monotheistic religions, including Islam, including Christianism, including Hinduism and Sikhism, ALL of which coexist with the practice and ALL of which prohibit it. Now being that it's such an ancient cultural tradition, you already had an indication, from your neighbor's contemporary appearance, that it probably doesn't exist in her world nor would she condone it.

It's also possible she was non-religious. Ever think of that? I've had dozens and dozens of Arab friends and at no time did any of them discuss religion or demonstrate any observance of one. I presume they were (mostly) Muslim, simply based on statistics, though I don't know that for a fact, nor was it relevant to anything.

This is exactly why mass ignorance is such a dead end. You boxed yourself in here out of your own failing. No one else did that.

You blew this one bigtime, but you can avoid the same gaffe in the future by opening your mind and allowing your own preconceptions to be challenged. Now get back out there and do it right.

I didn't say honor killing had anything to do with religion, nor did I mention religion, nor do I (like most people around the world) consider Islam to be a religion. Honor killing is a threat anytime one hooks up with a Muslim > FACT, not opinion.

And it's not my neighbor's thought about honor killing that matters, it is that of her family members (as I clearly stated in the OP) - take a reading comprehension course.

You need to read the OP again, and this time try to understand it. it's really quite simple.

 

[protectionist]

I'm recalling a woman who was a co-worker of mine. She had a strange, very exotic-sounding last name. Won't post it here in the interest of privacy but I had to ask her, "what kind of name is that"? "Arabic" she answered. Never did it occur to me to then ask her about religion --- why would I do that? I didn't ask that question of the Smiths and Joneses I worked with, and she didn't bring any such thing up. It would make no sense.

I'll tell ya what though, that woman, when I needed her on my side, went all out for me. We were just co-workers, not romantically linked, but when the chips were down she had my back totally. As good and loyal a friend as I've ever had.

Good thing I didn't run the other way based on my own ignorance when she explained her name, huh? I can't even imagine boxing myself in like that.

Why ? - because you could wind up DEAD - THAT'S why. Dummy.

 

[Pogo]

I'm recalling a woman who was a co-worker of mine. She had a strange, very exotic-sounding last name. Won't post it here in the interest of privacy but I had to ask her, "what kind of name is that"? "Arabic" she answered. Never did it occur to me to then ask her about religion --- why would I do that? I didn't ask that question of the Smiths and Joneses I worked with, and she didn't bring any such thing up. It would make no sense.

I'll tell ya what though, that woman, when I needed her on my side, went all out for me. We were just co-workers, not romantically linked, but when the chips were down she had my back totally. As good and loyal a friend as I've ever had.

Good thing I didn't run the other way based on my own ignorance when she explained her name, huh? I can't even imagine boxing myself in like that.

Why ? - because you could wind up DEAD - THAT'S why. Dummy.

I just described a person who was as loyal a friend as one could ask for. HOW would such an advantage put me "DEAD" dummy?

 

[Pogo]

I didn't say honor killing had anything to do with religion, nor did I mention religion, nor do I (like most people around the world) consider Islam to be a religion. Honor killing is a threat anytime one hooks up with a Muslim > FACT, not opinion.

Nope. Unhinged ignorance. If there's a religion that is coincident with the ancient practice it's probably Hinduism, though again --------- coincidence is IN NO WAY causation. You're digging yourself into your own hole via a Composition Fallacy. Now if the woman in question had had an Indian name ---- would you have had the same concern? Because if the answer is "no", you're clearly fueling out of your own ignorance.

What's more YOU YOURSELF already admitted you never determined what her religious background is or if she even practiced one. That's ignorance in a nutshell.

 

[protectionist]

I just described a person who was as loyal a friend as one could ask for. HOW would such an advantage put me "DEAD" dummy?

You described ONE case (in which you were lucky). I 'm talking about the possibilities applying to thousands of cases (thousands of Muslims)

I could show you cases of honor killings that have occured in the US. Would you like to see them ?

 

[protectionist]

Nope. Unhinged ignorance. If there's a religion that is coincident with the ancient practice it's probably Hinduism, though again --------- coincidence is IN NO WAY causation. You're digging yourself into your own hole via a Composition Fallacy. Now if the woman in question had had an Indian name ---- would you have had the same concern? Because if the answer is "no", you're clearly fueling out of your own ignorance.

What's more YOU YOURSELF already admitted you never determined what her religious background is or if she even practiced one. That's ignorance in a nutshell.

You are ignoring all the many other things I mentioned in the OP, about Muslims hooking up with non-Muslims. What's the matter ? Afraid to talk about all those things ?. Honor killing is just one on the list.

 

[Pogo]

You described ONE case (in which you were lucky). I 'm talking about the possibilities applying to thousands of cases (thousands of Muslims)

No, I described ONE case that I approached logically. Once I understood the woman's name was Arabic ---- ON WHAT BASIS would I then inquire --- or even wonder about --- what her religious practice is? What basis? We were talking about, probably music. Or how the workplace worked. None of that has any relationship to "religion". If her name had been Spanish, should I then go "so tell me about Catholicism"? What the hell kind of leap is that?

I could show you cases of honor killings that have occured in the US. Would you like to see them ?

It would be irrelevant where it takes place. It's an ancient practice already entrenched when Islam and Hinduism were invented. If you were honestly (note: "honestly") concerned about her family's practices, you could have wended the conversation to family matters and had some direction. But no ---- you chose to follow your irrational fear. That was your choice. Now you've gotta live with it.

And you regret that choice, which we know because you posted here musing on The Road Not Taken. The thing is -- when you regret not taking that road -------- you're actually getting it right.

 

[protectionist]

---- ON WHAT BASIS would I then inquire --- or even wonder about --- what her religious practice is? What basis?

On the basis of what's written in the OP.

Now I wonder if you ever read it.

 

[Pogo]

Nope. Unhinged ignorance. If there's a religion that is coincident with the ancient practice it's probably Hinduism, though again --------- coincidence is IN NO WAY causation. You're digging yourself into your own hole via a Composition Fallacy. Now if the woman in question had had an Indian name ---- would you have had the same concern? Because if the answer is "no", you're clearly fueling out of your own ignorance.

What's more YOU YOURSELF already admitted you never determined what her religious background is or if she even practiced one. That's ignorance in a nutshell.

You are ignoring all the many other things I mentioned in the OP, about Muslims hooking up with non-Muslims. What's the matter ? Afraid to talk about all those things ?. Honor killing is just one on the list.

Nope, it isn't "on the list" at all since it's got nothing to do with Islam which, for what it's worth, forbids it.

Muslims hooking up with non-Muslims? What about it? Of all the considerations in hooking up, religion is pretty far down the list. Unless of course, you're locked in the prison of your own preconceptions, but we already covered that. And as we also already covered ----- you didn't even establish whether she had any religion at all, let alone ass-uming it was Islam. That's because you were afraid to find out, and that's because you're enslaved yourself to your own fears.

How exactly DO you arrive at the irrational conclusion that "every human belongs to some organized religion and it's just a matter of which one"? That's just bizarro. Doesn't reflect the real world at all. It's like those wags who presume that everybody has one or the other political party. Unfortunately for that fallacy there are those of us who think independently and don't need those crutches. I don't use either one. Maybe she didn't either. You'll never know now, will ya?

Notice which one of you had the preconceptions. From your description, YOU had 'em. SHE didn't this is all on you bud.

 

[protectionist]

Nope. Unhinged ignorance. If there's a religion that is coincident with the ancient practice it's probably Hinduism, though again --------- coincidence is IN NO WAY causation. You're digging yourself into your own hole via a Composition Fallacy. Now if the woman in question had had an Indian name ---- would you have had the same concern? Because if the answer is "no", you're clearly fueling out of your own ignorance.

What's more YOU YOURSELF already admitted you never determined what her religious background is or if she even practiced one. That's ignorance in a nutshell.

You are ignoring all the many other things I mentioned in the OP, about Muslims hooking up with non-Muslims. What's the matter ? Afraid to talk about all those things ?. Honor killing is just one on the list.

Nope, it isn't "on the list" at all since it's got nothing to do with Islam which, for what it's worth, forbids it.

Muslims hooking up with non-Muslims? What about it? Of all the considerations in hooking up, religion is pretty far down the list. Unless of course, you're locked in the prison of your own preconceptions, but we already covered that. And as we also already covered ----- you didn't even establish whether she had any religion at all, let alone ass-uming it was Islam. That's because you were afraid to find out, and that's because you're enslaved yourself to your own fears.

How exactly DO you arrive at the irrational conclusion that "every human belongs to some organized religion and it's just a matter of which one"? That's just bizarro. Doesn't reflect the real world at all. It's like those wags who presume that everybody has one or the other political party. Unfortunately for that fallacy there are those of us who think independently and don't need those crutches. I don't use either one. Maybe she didn't either. You'll never know now, will ya?

Notice which one of you had the preconceptions. From your description, YOU had 'em. SHE didn't this is all on you bud.

What I'm locked in is the FACTS about Muslims and their culture which totally different than US culture and laws. You are ignorant in the extreme. Too bad I don;t have time to educate you further......public library computer >> I'm off.

 

[Pogo]

I didn't say honor killing had anything to do with religion, nor did I mention religion, nor do I (like most people around the world) consider Islam to be a religion.

Then you must not believe Christianism to be a religion either, since your OP reads:

It’s possible she was not Muslim. Some Arabs are Christian

Are you making a false comparison? Or are you admitting that Islam is indeed a religion? Gotta be one or the other, you can't have it both ways.

What would the Muslim guy use to beat his wife with ? A bull whip ? Cat of Nine Tails ? A large stick ?

Why do you plan on "beating" a woman you haven't even established a relationship with? I dunno dude, based on your lock-myself-in-this-box paranoia chains, maybe she should be pondering that question.

 

[Syriusly]

Man, you sure lock yourself into a sorry-ass self-imposed prison.

You had an easy fly ball here, and you dropped it. Now you'll never know. Pre-judging a person on the basis of how their name is pronounced? REALLY?

You had, and still have, the universal icebreaker-- music. It handed you opportunity, and you ran away rather than explore it. Doesn't that make everything you worked on to get to that musical level ---- pointless?

Your preconceptions are also based on complete bullshit. "Honor" killing for example --- had nothing to do with any religion, it's a cultural artifact that FAR predates monotheistic religions, including Islam, including Christianism, including Hinduism and Sikhism, ALL of which coexist with the practice and ALL of which prohibit it. Now being that it's such an ancient cultural tradition, you already had an indication, from your neighbor's contemporary appearance, that it probably doesn't exist in her world nor would she condone it.

It's also possible she was non-religious. Ever think of that? I've had dozens and dozens of Arab friends and at no time did any of them discuss religion or demonstrate any observance of one. I presume they were (mostly) Muslim, simply based on statistics, though I don't know that for a fact, nor was it relevant to anything.

This is exactly why mass ignorance is such a dead end. You boxed yourself in here out of your own failing. No one else did that.

You blew this one bigtime, but you can avoid the same gaffe in the future by opening your mind and allowing your own preconceptions to be challenged. Now get back out there and do it right.

I didn't say honor killing had anything to do with religion, nor did I mention religion,

ahem- bullshit alert

Quoting you:
With Muslims however, it’s a whole nother ballgame. Non-approval from Muslim family members could mean an “honor killing” of the lady

Yes- you mentioned religion- and yes you mentioned it in context of honor killing.

Snowflake- and a liar.

 

[Syriusly]

Nope. Unhinged ignorance. If there's a religion that is coincident with the ancient practice it's probably Hinduism, though again --------- coincidence is IN NO WAY causation. You're digging yourself into your own hole via a Composition Fallacy. Now if the woman in question had had an Indian name ---- would you have had the same concern? Because if the answer is "no", you're clearly fueling out of your own ignorance.

What's more YOU YOURSELF already admitted you never determined what her religious background is or if she even practiced one. That's ignorance in a nutshell.

You are ignoring all the many other things I mentioned in the OP, about Muslims hooking up with non-Muslims. What's the matter ? Afraid to talk about all those things ?. Honor killing is just one on the list.

Nope, it isn't "on the list" at all since it's got nothing to do with Islam which, for what it's worth, forbids it.

Muslims hooking up with non-Muslims? What about it? Of all the considerations in hooking up, religion is pretty far down the list. Unless of course, you're locked in the prison of your own preconceptions, but we already covered that. And as we also already covered ----- you didn't even establish whether she had any religion at all, let alone ass-uming it was Islam. That's because you were afraid to find out, and that's because you're enslaved yourself to your own fears.

How exactly DO you arrive at the irrational conclusion that "every human belongs to some organized religion and it's just a matter of which one"? That's just bizarro. Doesn't reflect the real world at all. It's like those wags who presume that everybody has one or the other political party. Unfortunately for that fallacy there are those of us who think independently and don't need those crutches. I don't use either one. Maybe she didn't either. You'll never know now, will ya?

Notice which one of you had the preconceptions. From your description, YOU had 'em. SHE didn't this is all on you bud.

What I'm locked in is the FACTS about Muslims and their culture which totally different than US culture and laws. .

There are some 3 million American Muslims- which participate in U.S. Culture and laws.

Just poor little snowflakes like you make really stupid assumptions.

 

[galaxygreen2025]

It's perfectly fine to be questionable on things you're not sure of. But yes Music is the ice breaker. She probley didn't say hello because maybe a related persons were in the area. I have said hello to a few covered woman and they don't speak. Hardly smile, at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Pogo]

It's perfectly fine to be questionable on things you're not sure of. But yes Music is the ice breaker. She probley didn't say hello because maybe a related persons were in the area. I have said hello to a few covered woman and they don't speak. Hardly smile, at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

She wasn't "covered" at all. The only aspect that gave the OP any pause at all was the way her name is pronounced. That's it.

Sounds like she was single, independent, pretty and open. OP just simply booted it. He's letting us know he'd rather live with his own paranoia than with an interesting woman.

Yanno what --- it's even possible she gave him a fake name to test his mettle. In which case she played him like a cheap mandolin, rather than the OP playing himself like one.

 

[Syriusly]

It's perfectly fine to be questionable on things you're not sure of. But yes Music is the ice breaker. She probley didn't say hello because maybe a related persons were in the area. I have said hello to a few covered woman and they don't speak. Hardly smile, at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

She wasn't "covered" at all. The only aspect that gave the OP any pause at all was the way her name is pronounced. That's it.

Sounds like she was single, independent, pretty and open. OP just simply booted it. He's letting us know he'd rather live with his own paranoia than with an interesting woman.

Yanno what --- it's even possible she gave him a fake name to test his mettle. In which case she played him like a cheap mandolin, rather than the OP playing himself like one.

On the plus side- just think how much that woman would be thanking her lucky stars today, if she found out she avoided getting to know protectionist?