I saw the true meaning of the crucifixion while watching the Passion last night

[luchitociencia]

I believe the prophecies. I believe they're all fulfilled, as I said in an earlier post. To say that this prophecy is unfulfilled is to be no less confused than the church fathers were.

The temporal references in it from an unfulfilled perspective are extraordinarily convoluted. Hippolytus and Julius Africanus, for example, interpreted the prophecy to mean that Christ would return in AD 500 while Jerome contested that Eusebius held two different views on it entirely. During the Reformation, Protestants believed that the seventy weeks (490 day-years) of Daniel had already run their course, as the Catholics also believed. Prior to the 1800s, many Protestants and Catholics simply had not thought of separating the time measure with thousands of years of ecclesiastical history.

http://www.paultanner.org/English%20HTML/Publ%20Articles/Daniel's%2070th%20Wk%20-%20BibSac%20Article%201%20-%20Dr%20Tanner.pdf

I don't know if the link was given in these forums or from another web site, but there is a study from 1930s where the 70 weeks prophecy is not lead for the destruction of the Jewish Temple but to the death of the Messiah.

The study works great, even taking lots of "unused" years when Israel wasn't controlled by judges by by other powers between their conquest of Canaan and the kings era.

However, after the best efforts to make coincide the number of years, its author ended using the Justinian calendar over passing the Jewish and Gregorian calendar performing the corresponded updates.

Point is that when prophecies mention numbers, it happen that the numbers are not to be taken literally exact but as reference, this is to say, approximate.

Best example is the "400" years prophesied by God to Abraham, and later the narration mention 430 years of fulfillment. And even so, the prophetic numbers nor the chronological numbers are correct anyway, and both show controversies.

 

[Votto]

Why didn't the ancient Jewish scholars explain this so that blokes like us could make heads and tails of it?

For one, the Jewish calendar system is different than the one we use today so the way they refer to time was naturally different as well.

You know we can sync the Gregorian calendar with the Jewish calendar, right? If the ancient Jewish scholars knew what Daniel's prophecy meant, I see no reason that unschooled folks like us can't know it. And if you don't know what it means, why are you teaching it?

With all due respect, Votto (you're a good guy).

As for choosing to not read the whole thing, that is your loss. The reason is, it is a historical fact that Daniel was written hundreds of years before the time of Christ, and equally astounding that it provides a calendar for the exact time Jesus was to walk the earth with Rabbis, that ultimately rejected him (and, therefore, no reason to corroborate the calendar), verifying the whole thing.

Simply put, it is astounding.

So you have the option, as someone who chooses not to believe the prophesy, that the whole account of Jesus was made up to simply fit the prophesies, otherwise, you would have to believe. Problem is, there is ample evidence that Jesus was real as was his ministry and subsequent resurrection.

I believe the prophecies. I believe they're all fulfilled, as I said in an earlier post. To say that this prophecy is unfulfilled is to be no less confused than the church fathers were.

The temporal references in it from an unfulfilled perspective are extraordinarily convoluted. Hippolytus and Julius Africanus, for example, interpreted the prophecy to mean that Christ would return in AD 500 while Jerome contested that Eusebius held two different views on it entirely. During the Reformation, Protestants believed that the seventy weeks (490 day-years) of Daniel had already run their course, as the Catholics also believed. Prior to the 1800s, many Protestants and Catholics simply had not thought of separating the time measure with thousands of years of ecclesiastical history.

http://www.paultanner.org/English%20HTML/Publ%20Articles/Daniel's%2070th%20Wk%20-%20BibSac%20Article%201%20-%20Dr%20Tanner.pdf

I'll be honest here, I have not attempted to calculate the time period myself, but there are a myriad of sites that do that I have reviewed such as this.

Daniel 9:24-27 Commentary: Daniel 9 Miraculously Fulfilled! | Revelation Revolution

revelationrevolution.org

But even the detractors who argue that the calendar is a little off based on their own calculations seem to concede that it is a calendar for the coming of the Messiah and even though they have slightly different dates it is in the same ballpark as those who claim it is spot on.

Either way, I find the prophesy astounding.

 

[norwegen]

I believe the prophecies. I believe they're all fulfilled, as I said in an earlier post. To say that this prophecy is unfulfilled is to be no less confused than the church fathers were.

The temporal references in it from an unfulfilled perspective are extraordinarily convoluted. Hippolytus and Julius Africanus, for example, interpreted the prophecy to mean that Christ would return in AD 500 while Jerome contested that Eusebius held two different views on it entirely. During the Reformation, Protestants believed that the seventy weeks (490 day-years) of Daniel had already run their course, as the Catholics also believed. Prior to the 1800s, many Protestants and Catholics simply had not thought of separating the time measure with thousands of years of ecclesiastical history.

http://www.paultanner.org/English%20HTML/Publ%20Articles/Daniel's%2070th%20Wk%20-%20BibSac%20Article%201%20-%20Dr%20Tanner.pdf

I don't know if the link was given in these forums or from another web site, but there is a study from 1930s where the 70 weeks prophecy is not lead for the destruction of the Jewish Temple but to the death of the Messiah.

Gabriel prophesies actual occurrences that attest to the Messiah coming not once but twice. The anointed came after seven weeks, then again after sixty-two weeks, at which time he put an end to transgression and sin.

Not to derail this thread with the seventy weeks prophecy, but read the passage carefully (Dn 9:24-27). It's fulfilled.

 

[norwegen]

Why didn't the ancient Jewish scholars explain this so that blokes like us could make heads and tails of it?

For one, the Jewish calendar system is different than the one we use today so the way they refer to time was naturally different as well.

You know we can sync the Gregorian calendar with the Jewish calendar, right? If the ancient Jewish scholars knew what Daniel's prophecy meant, I see no reason that unschooled folks like us can't know it. And if you don't know what it means, why are you teaching it?

With all due respect, Votto (you're a good guy).

As for choosing to not read the whole thing, that is your loss. The reason is, it is a historical fact that Daniel was written hundreds of years before the time of Christ, and equally astounding that it provides a calendar for the exact time Jesus was to walk the earth with Rabbis, that ultimately rejected him (and, therefore, no reason to corroborate the calendar), verifying the whole thing.

Simply put, it is astounding.

So you have the option, as someone who chooses not to believe the prophesy, that the whole account of Jesus was made up to simply fit the prophesies, otherwise, you would have to believe. Problem is, there is ample evidence that Jesus was real as was his ministry and subsequent resurrection.

I believe the prophecies. I believe they're all fulfilled, as I said in an earlier post. To say that this prophecy is unfulfilled is to be no less confused than the church fathers were.

The temporal references in it from an unfulfilled perspective are extraordinarily convoluted. Hippolytus and Julius Africanus, for example, interpreted the prophecy to mean that Christ would return in AD 500 while Jerome contested that Eusebius held two different views on it entirely. During the Reformation, Protestants believed that the seventy weeks (490 day-years) of Daniel had already run their course, as the Catholics also believed. Prior to the 1800s, many Protestants and Catholics simply had not thought of separating the time measure with thousands of years of ecclesiastical history.

http://www.paultanner.org/English%20HTML/Publ%20Articles/Daniel's%2070th%20Wk%20-%20BibSac%20Article%201%20-%20Dr%20Tanner.pdf

I'll be honest here, I have not attempted to calculate the time period myself, but there are a myriad of sites that do that I have reviewed such as this.

Daniel 9:24-27 Commentary: Daniel 9 Miraculously Fulfilled! | Revelation Revolution

revelationrevolution.org

But even the detractors who argue that the calendar is a little off based on their own calculations seem to concede that it is a calendar for the coming of the Messiah and even though they have slightly different dates it is in the same ballpark as those who claim it is spot on.

Either way, I find the prophesy astounding.

If the prophecy is not fulfilled, how is it astounding? Anyone can "foretell" anything.

The Messiah's death on the Cross was the beginning of the end of the old covenant and the Jewish Age, the age he was crucified in. It was also the beginning of the new covenant and the Christian Age.

Like a fig tree in springtime, and indeed all trees in that season, the church was sprouting green shoots as Jesus preached, but after the fall of the cult of temple, summer would come; the empire of the saints and their king would blossom, and eventually, in a most glorious and unstoppable way, would spread its branches throughout the world. Jesus knew this would begin to happen and happen soon—in his generation:

Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. As soon as they come out in leaf, you see for yourselves and know that the summer is already near. So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that the kingdom of God is near. Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all has taken place. (Lk 21:29-32)

 

[Votto]

Why didn't the ancient Jewish scholars explain this so that blokes like us could make heads and tails of it?

For one, the Jewish calendar system is different than the one we use today so the way they refer to time was naturally different as well.

You know we can sync the Gregorian calendar with the Jewish calendar, right? If the ancient Jewish scholars knew what Daniel's prophecy meant, I see no reason that unschooled folks like us can't know it. And if you don't know what it means, why are you teaching it?

With all due respect, Votto (you're a good guy).

As for choosing to not read the whole thing, that is your loss. The reason is, it is a historical fact that Daniel was written hundreds of years before the time of Christ, and equally astounding that it provides a calendar for the exact time Jesus was to walk the earth with Rabbis, that ultimately rejected him (and, therefore, no reason to corroborate the calendar), verifying the whole thing.

Simply put, it is astounding.

So you have the option, as someone who chooses not to believe the prophesy, that the whole account of Jesus was made up to simply fit the prophesies, otherwise, you would have to believe. Problem is, there is ample evidence that Jesus was real as was his ministry and subsequent resurrection.

I believe the prophecies. I believe they're all fulfilled, as I said in an earlier post. To say that this prophecy is unfulfilled is to be no less confused than the church fathers were.

The temporal references in it from an unfulfilled perspective are extraordinarily convoluted. Hippolytus and Julius Africanus, for example, interpreted the prophecy to mean that Christ would return in AD 500 while Jerome contested that Eusebius held two different views on it entirely. During the Reformation, Protestants believed that the seventy weeks (490 day-years) of Daniel had already run their course, as the Catholics also believed. Prior to the 1800s, many Protestants and Catholics simply had not thought of separating the time measure with thousands of years of ecclesiastical history.

http://www.paultanner.org/English%20HTML/Publ%20Articles/Daniel's%2070th%20Wk%20-%20BibSac%20Article%201%20-%20Dr%20Tanner.pdf

I'll be honest here, I have not attempted to calculate the time period myself, but there are a myriad of sites that do that I have reviewed such as this.

Daniel 9:24-27 Commentary: Daniel 9 Miraculously Fulfilled! | Revelation Revolution

revelationrevolution.org

But even the detractors who argue that the calendar is a little off based on their own calculations seem to concede that it is a calendar for the coming of the Messiah and even though they have slightly different dates it is in the same ballpark as those who claim it is spot on.

Either way, I find the prophesy astounding.

If the prophecy is not fulfilled, how is it astounding? Anyone can "foretell" anything.

The Messiah's death on the Cross was the beginning of the end of the old covenant and the Jewish Age, the age he was crucified in. It was also the beginning of the new covenant and the Christian Age.

Like a fig tree in springtime, and indeed all trees in that season, the church was sprouting green shoots as Jesus preached, but after the fall of the cult of temple, summer would come; the empire of the saints and their king would blossom, and eventually, in a most glorious and unstoppable way, would spread its branches throughout the world. Jesus knew this would begin to happen and happen soon—in his generation:

Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. As soon as they come out in leaf, you see for yourselves and know that the summer is already near. So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that the kingdom of God is near. Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all has taken place. (Lk 21:29-32)

Sorry, but anyone with the gonads to put a calendar up stating something will happen in the future, or begin to happen, and be correct, is astounding.

It must come from a higher power.

 

[norwegen]

Why didn't the ancient Jewish scholars explain this so that blokes like us could make heads and tails of it?

For one, the Jewish calendar system is different than the one we use today so the way they refer to time was naturally different as well.

You know we can sync the Gregorian calendar with the Jewish calendar, right? If the ancient Jewish scholars knew what Daniel's prophecy meant, I see no reason that unschooled folks like us can't know it. And if you don't know what it means, why are you teaching it?

With all due respect, Votto (you're a good guy).

As for choosing to not read the whole thing, that is your loss. The reason is, it is a historical fact that Daniel was written hundreds of years before the time of Christ, and equally astounding that it provides a calendar for the exact time Jesus was to walk the earth with Rabbis, that ultimately rejected him (and, therefore, no reason to corroborate the calendar), verifying the whole thing.

Simply put, it is astounding.

So you have the option, as someone who chooses not to believe the prophesy, that the whole account of Jesus was made up to simply fit the prophesies, otherwise, you would have to believe. Problem is, there is ample evidence that Jesus was real as was his ministry and subsequent resurrection.

I believe the prophecies. I believe they're all fulfilled, as I said in an earlier post. To say that this prophecy is unfulfilled is to be no less confused than the church fathers were.

The temporal references in it from an unfulfilled perspective are extraordinarily convoluted. Hippolytus and Julius Africanus, for example, interpreted the prophecy to mean that Christ would return in AD 500 while Jerome contested that Eusebius held two different views on it entirely. During the Reformation, Protestants believed that the seventy weeks (490 day-years) of Daniel had already run their course, as the Catholics also believed. Prior to the 1800s, many Protestants and Catholics simply had not thought of separating the time measure with thousands of years of ecclesiastical history.

http://www.paultanner.org/English%20HTML/Publ%20Articles/Daniel's%2070th%20Wk%20-%20BibSac%20Article%201%20-%20Dr%20Tanner.pdf

I'll be honest here, I have not attempted to calculate the time period myself, but there are a myriad of sites that do that I have reviewed such as this.

Daniel 9:24-27 Commentary: Daniel 9 Miraculously Fulfilled! | Revelation Revolution

revelationrevolution.org

But even the detractors who argue that the calendar is a little off based on their own calculations seem to concede that it is a calendar for the coming of the Messiah and even though they have slightly different dates it is in the same ballpark as those who claim it is spot on.

Either way, I find the prophesy astounding.

If the prophecy is not fulfilled, how is it astounding? Anyone can "foretell" anything.

The Messiah's death on the Cross was the beginning of the end of the old covenant and the Jewish Age, the age he was crucified in. It was also the beginning of the new covenant and the Christian Age.

Like a fig tree in springtime, and indeed all trees in that season, the church was sprouting green shoots as Jesus preached, but after the fall of the cult of temple, summer would come; the empire of the saints and their king would blossom, and eventually, in a most glorious and unstoppable way, would spread its branches throughout the world. Jesus knew this would begin to happen and happen soon—in his generation:

Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. As soon as they come out in leaf, you see for yourselves and know that the summer is already near. So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that the kingdom of God is near. Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all has taken place. (Lk 21:29-32)

Sorry, but anyone with the gonads to put a calendar up stating something will happen in the future, or begin to happen, and be correct, is astounding.

It must come from a higher power.

It hasn't happened yet, but you know it's correct? Are you a prophet, too?

 

[Votto]

Why didn't the ancient Jewish scholars explain this so that blokes like us could make heads and tails of it?

For one, the Jewish calendar system is different than the one we use today so the way they refer to time was naturally different as well.

You know we can sync the Gregorian calendar with the Jewish calendar, right? If the ancient Jewish scholars knew what Daniel's prophecy meant, I see no reason that unschooled folks like us can't know it. And if you don't know what it means, why are you teaching it?

With all due respect, Votto (you're a good guy).

As for choosing to not read the whole thing, that is your loss. The reason is, it is a historical fact that Daniel was written hundreds of years before the time of Christ, and equally astounding that it provides a calendar for the exact time Jesus was to walk the earth with Rabbis, that ultimately rejected him (and, therefore, no reason to corroborate the calendar), verifying the whole thing.

Simply put, it is astounding.

So you have the option, as someone who chooses not to believe the prophesy, that the whole account of Jesus was made up to simply fit the prophesies, otherwise, you would have to believe. Problem is, there is ample evidence that Jesus was real as was his ministry and subsequent resurrection.

I believe the prophecies. I believe they're all fulfilled, as I said in an earlier post. To say that this prophecy is unfulfilled is to be no less confused than the church fathers were.

The temporal references in it from an unfulfilled perspective are extraordinarily convoluted. Hippolytus and Julius Africanus, for example, interpreted the prophecy to mean that Christ would return in AD 500 while Jerome contested that Eusebius held two different views on it entirely. During the Reformation, Protestants believed that the seventy weeks (490 day-years) of Daniel had already run their course, as the Catholics also believed. Prior to the 1800s, many Protestants and Catholics simply had not thought of separating the time measure with thousands of years of ecclesiastical history.

http://www.paultanner.org/English%20HTML/Publ%20Articles/Daniel's%2070th%20Wk%20-%20BibSac%20Article%201%20-%20Dr%20Tanner.pdf

I'll be honest here, I have not attempted to calculate the time period myself, but there are a myriad of sites that do that I have reviewed such as this.

Daniel 9:24-27 Commentary: Daniel 9 Miraculously Fulfilled! | Revelation Revolution

revelationrevolution.org

But even the detractors who argue that the calendar is a little off based on their own calculations seem to concede that it is a calendar for the coming of the Messiah and even though they have slightly different dates it is in the same ballpark as those who claim it is spot on.

Either way, I find the prophesy astounding.

If the prophecy is not fulfilled, how is it astounding? Anyone can "foretell" anything.

The Messiah's death on the Cross was the beginning of the end of the old covenant and the Jewish Age, the age he was crucified in. It was also the beginning of the new covenant and the Christian Age.

Like a fig tree in springtime, and indeed all trees in that season, the church was sprouting green shoots as Jesus preached, but after the fall of the cult of temple, summer would come; the empire of the saints and their king would blossom, and eventually, in a most glorious and unstoppable way, would spread its branches throughout the world. Jesus knew this would begin to happen and happen soon—in his generation:

Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. As soon as they come out in leaf, you see for yourselves and know that the summer is already near. So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that the kingdom of God is near. Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all has taken place. (Lk 21:29-32)

Sorry, but anyone with the gonads to put a calendar up stating something will happen in the future, or begin to happen, and be correct, is astounding.

It must come from a higher power.

It hasn't happened yet, but you know it's correct? Are you a prophet, too?

Don't know what you are saying here. You either don't believe that the prophesy did not relate to the coming of the Messiah or you don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah.

So which is it?

 

[Newtonian]

Why didn't the ancient Jewish scholars explain this so that blokes like us could make heads and tails of it?

For one, the Jewish calendar system is different than the one we use today so the way they refer to time was naturally different as well.

You know we can sync the Gregorian calendar with the Jewish calendar, right? If the ancient Jewish scholars knew what Daniel's prophecy meant, I see no reason that unschooled folks like us can't know it. And if you don't know what it means, why are you teaching it?

With all due respect, Votto (you're a good guy).

As for choosing to not read the whole thing, that is your loss. The reason is, it is a historical fact that Daniel was written hundreds of years before the time of Christ, and equally astounding that it provides a calendar for the exact time Jesus was to walk the earth with Rabbis, that ultimately rejected him (and, therefore, no reason to corroborate the calendar), verifying the whole thing.

Simply put, it is astounding.

So you have the option, as someone who chooses not to believe the prophesy, that the whole account of Jesus was made up to simply fit the prophesies, otherwise, you would have to believe. Problem is, there is ample evidence that Jesus was real as was his ministry and subsequent resurrection.

I believe the prophecies. I believe they're all fulfilled, as I said in an earlier post. To say that this prophecy is unfulfilled is to be no less confused than the church fathers were.

The temporal references in it from an unfulfilled perspective are extraordinarily convoluted. Hippolytus and Julius Africanus, for example, interpreted the prophecy to mean that Christ would return in AD 500 while Jerome contested that Eusebius held two different views on it entirely. During the Reformation, Protestants believed that the seventy weeks (490 day-years) of Daniel had already run their course, as the Catholics also believed. Prior to the 1800s, many Protestants and Catholics simply had not thought of separating the time measure with thousands of years of ecclesiastical history.

http://www.paultanner.org/English%20HTML/Publ%20Articles/Daniel's%2070th%20Wk%20-%20BibSac%20Article%201%20-%20Dr%20Tanner.pdf

I'll be honest here, I have not attempted to calculate the time period myself, but there are a myriad of sites that do that I have reviewed such as this.

Daniel 9:24-27 Commentary: Daniel 9 Miraculously Fulfilled! | Revelation Revolution

revelationrevolution.org

But even the detractors who argue that the calendar is a little off based on their own calculations seem to concede that it is a calendar for the coming of the Messiah and even though they have slightly different dates it is in the same ballpark as those who claim it is spot on.

Either way, I find the prophesy astounding.

If the prophecy is not fulfilled, how is it astounding? Anyone can "foretell" anything.

The Messiah's death on the Cross was the beginning of the end of the old covenant and the Jewish Age, the age he was crucified in. It was also the beginning of the new covenant and the Christian Age.

Like a fig tree in springtime, and indeed all trees in that season, the church was sprouting green shoots as Jesus preached, but after the fall of the cult of temple, summer would come; the empire of the saints and their king would blossom, and eventually, in a most glorious and unstoppable way, would spread its branches throughout the world. Jesus knew this would begin to happen and happen soon—in his generation:

Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. As soon as they come out in leaf, you see for yourselves and know that the summer is already near. So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that the kingdom of God is near. Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all has taken place. (Lk 21:29-32)

Sorry, but anyone with the gonads to put a calendar up stating something will happen in the future, or begin to happen, and be correct, is astounding.

It must come from a higher power.

It hasn't happened yet, but you know it's correct? Are you a prophet, too?

Don't know what you are saying here. You either don't believe that the prophesy did not relate to the coming of the Messiah or you don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah.

So which is it?

We believe the prophecy in Daniel 9:24-27 is concerning the Messiah and that Jesus is the Messiah.

A simple chart of the seventy weeks of years is here:

Daniel’s Prophecy Foretold the Messiah’s Arrival — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

A more detailed discussion is in our Bible dictionary here:

Seventy Weeks — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

Summary:

455BCE Artaxerxes gave the order to rebuild Jerusalem

69 weeks of years later (= 483 years) Jesus became the Messiah/Christ/anointed one when anointed with holy spirit at his baptism c. October 1 29CE.

At the half of the 70th week (3.5 years later) Jesus died and sacrifice and gift offering ceased to be accepted by Jehovah. Nisan 14, 33CE.

At the end of the 70th week the covenant with the Jews alone ended with the first Gentiles (Cornelius et al) baptized after receiving holy spirit in 36 CE.

 

[Votto]

Why didn't the ancient Jewish scholars explain this so that blokes like us could make heads and tails of it?

For one, the Jewish calendar system is different than the one we use today so the way they refer to time was naturally different as well.

You know we can sync the Gregorian calendar with the Jewish calendar, right? If the ancient Jewish scholars knew what Daniel's prophecy meant, I see no reason that unschooled folks like us can't know it. And if you don't know what it means, why are you teaching it?

With all due respect, Votto (you're a good guy).

As for choosing to not read the whole thing, that is your loss. The reason is, it is a historical fact that Daniel was written hundreds of years before the time of Christ, and equally astounding that it provides a calendar for the exact time Jesus was to walk the earth with Rabbis, that ultimately rejected him (and, therefore, no reason to corroborate the calendar), verifying the whole thing.

Simply put, it is astounding.

So you have the option, as someone who chooses not to believe the prophesy, that the whole account of Jesus was made up to simply fit the prophesies, otherwise, you would have to believe. Problem is, there is ample evidence that Jesus was real as was his ministry and subsequent resurrection.

I believe the prophecies. I believe they're all fulfilled, as I said in an earlier post. To say that this prophecy is unfulfilled is to be no less confused than the church fathers were.

The temporal references in it from an unfulfilled perspective are extraordinarily convoluted. Hippolytus and Julius Africanus, for example, interpreted the prophecy to mean that Christ would return in AD 500 while Jerome contested that Eusebius held two different views on it entirely. During the Reformation, Protestants believed that the seventy weeks (490 day-years) of Daniel had already run their course, as the Catholics also believed. Prior to the 1800s, many Protestants and Catholics simply had not thought of separating the time measure with thousands of years of ecclesiastical history.

http://www.paultanner.org/English%20HTML/Publ%20Articles/Daniel's%2070th%20Wk%20-%20BibSac%20Article%201%20-%20Dr%20Tanner.pdf

I'll be honest here, I have not attempted to calculate the time period myself, but there are a myriad of sites that do that I have reviewed such as this.

Daniel 9:24-27 Commentary: Daniel 9 Miraculously Fulfilled! | Revelation Revolution

revelationrevolution.org

But even the detractors who argue that the calendar is a little off based on their own calculations seem to concede that it is a calendar for the coming of the Messiah and even though they have slightly different dates it is in the same ballpark as those who claim it is spot on.

Either way, I find the prophesy astounding.

If the prophecy is not fulfilled, how is it astounding? Anyone can "foretell" anything.

The Messiah's death on the Cross was the beginning of the end of the old covenant and the Jewish Age, the age he was crucified in. It was also the beginning of the new covenant and the Christian Age.

Like a fig tree in springtime, and indeed all trees in that season, the church was sprouting green shoots as Jesus preached, but after the fall of the cult of temple, summer would come; the empire of the saints and their king would blossom, and eventually, in a most glorious and unstoppable way, would spread its branches throughout the world. Jesus knew this would begin to happen and happen soon—in his generation:

Look at the fig tree, and all the trees. As soon as they come out in leaf, you see for yourselves and know that the summer is already near. So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that the kingdom of God is near. Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all has taken place. (Lk 21:29-32)

Sorry, but anyone with the gonads to put a calendar up stating something will happen in the future, or begin to happen, and be correct, is astounding.

It must come from a higher power.

It hasn't happened yet, but you know it's correct? Are you a prophet, too?

Don't know what you are saying here. You either don't believe that the prophesy did not relate to the coming of the Messiah or you don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah.

So which is it?

We believe the prophecy in Daniel 9:24-27 is concerning the Messiah and that Jesus is the Messiah.

A simple chart of the seventy weeks of years is here:

Daniel’s Prophecy Foretold the Messiah’s Arrival — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

A more detailed discussion is in our Bible dictionary here:

Seventy Weeks — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

This is an authorized Web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is a research tool for publications in various languages produced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

wol.jw.org

Summary:

455BCE Artaxerxes gave the order to rebuild Jerusalem

69 weeks of years later (= 483 years) Jesus became the Messiah/Christ/anointed one when anointed with holy spirit at his baptism c. October 1 29CE.

At the half of the 70th week (3.5 years later) Jesus died and sacrifice and gift offering ceased to be accepted by Jehovah. Nisan 14, 33CE.

At the end of the 70th week the covenant with the Jews alone ended with the first Gentiles (Cornelius et al) baptized after receiving holy spirit in 36 CE.

Ok, so you are a JW and we both agree that Jesus was the Messiah and the prophesy points to the coming of Jesus hundreds of years later when Daniel predicted.

Right?

 

[rylah]

It was someone on this forum who showed me the way: be like the man on the left side of the cross, or like the man on the right.

The man on the left mocked Jesus, told him to save himself and them.

The man on the right said, we deserve this punishment. Please Jesus, I ask only that you remember me when you enter your kingdom.

All my life I've been the man on the left: cursing God, condemning him, for all the bad things that happened to me in my life. I told him, you could save me from this any time, but you don't. So obviously, it's a lie that you're a loving God.

But now, I'm the man on the right. I know that whatever I've endured in this life, if there was true justice I'd probably have to endure more. I will be grateful to God for what he has given me, and have faith in God that he will remember me if I remember him.

Isaiah 53

New International Version


Isaiah 53

1 Who has believed our message(A)
and to whom has the arm(B) of the Lord been revealed?(C)
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,(D)
and like a root(E) out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance(F) that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering,(G) and familiar with pain.(H)
Like one from whom people hide(I) their faces
he was despised,(J) and we held him in low esteem.
4 Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,(K)
yet we considered him punished by God,(L)
stricken by him, and afflicted.(M)
5 But he was pierced(N) for our transgressions,(O)
he was crushed(P) for our iniquities;
the punishment(Q) that brought us peace(R) was on him,
and by his wounds(S) we are healed.(T)
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,(U)
each of us has turned to our own way;(V)
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity(W) of us all.
7 He was oppressed(X) and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;(Y)
he was led like a lamb(Z) to the slaughter,(AA)
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression[a] and judgment(AB) he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;(AC)
for the transgression(AD) of my people he was punished.[b]
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,(AE)
and with the rich(AF) in his death,
though he had done no violence,(AG)
nor was any deceit in his mouth.(AH)
10 Yet it was the Lord’s will(AI) to crush(AJ) him and cause him to suffer,(AK)
and though the Lord makes[c] his life an offering for sin,(AL)
he will see his offspring(AM) and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper(AN) in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,(AO)
he will see the light(AP) of life[d] and be satisfied[e];
by his knowledge[f] my righteous servant(AQ) will justify(AR) many,
and he will bear their iniquities.(AS)
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,[g](AT)
and he will divide the spoils(AU) with the strong,[h]
because he poured out his life unto death,(AV)
and was numbered with the transgressors.(AW)
For he bore(AX) the sin of many,(AY)
and made intercession(AZ) for the transgressors.

Notice that this is the first example in the Bible where God threw his wrath against a righteous man. All other examples have been against sinners.

So if this prophesy is not about Jesus, how could it be justified, casting such judgement on an innocent man?

Isaiah 53: Rabbi Tovia Singer reveals the meaning of the most misused chapter in the Bible

That is a rebuttal?

So he has no idea who the servant is that is being talked about in Isaiah 53 other than being certain it was not Jesus? Funny, all religions, other than maybe Judaism for obvious reasons, thinks Jesus was a servant of God.

Again, God crushing and oppressing a righteous man is unpresented in the Bible. Therefore, it seems to me to be a conundrum for ya that you refuse to address

You didn't read anything before 53 did you?
Isiah himself clearly states the servant is Israel.

 

[rylah]

What exactly is the true meaning of the crucifixion? This was a common form of cruel execution by the Romans. Thousands of Jews were executed this way. Why was this one so different?

Thousands of Jews? Yea, okay, maybe. Thousands of slaves and rebels, certainly. Case in point: Spartacus after the Third Servile War.

Jesus wasn't even a rebel; the Romans didn't find him guilty. He was crucified as Israel's messiah.

Depends which way you look at it.

Even some of those movies addressed the issue of rebellion against Roman occupation.

Jesus is sometimes thought of as revolutionary, but not as Rome saw him, really. He was really rather compliant with Roman law.

But not so much with Jewish law - working on the Sabbath and all that. The temple leaders insisted he be crucified. Jesus was defying their tradition.

He was Israel's messiah, the one to bring God's kingdom to the earth. Crucifixion and resurrection were the way to do it.

So how could he be Israel's messiah if he defied G-d's law,
and didn't fulfill any of the obligation of a messiah?

Makes no sense.

But he did fulfill the obligation of the Messiah.

Tell us, where is "Messiah" mentioned specifically in the Torah?

Seriously?
So he ingathered all Israel?
Returned the kingdom of David in Israel?
Rebuilt the Temple and renewed the service of sacrifices?
Fought wars and established the promised borders removing all foreign rule?

None of the above, in fact the opposite to the letter.

 

[JoeB131]

Before the "new" Pearl Harbor movie, the former one was a black and white film which was "very convincing" for viewers. Later, with new technology, color was added. But, when was in color, it was more visible the special effects and it was a kind of Japanese Godzilla movie, where you notice buildings are fake, ships are fake, etc. The film makers decided to keep the former movie in black and white.

The impression given by a movie won't be the same for all audiences, and your points of view are as valid as the point of view of others about The Passion.

The OP was "touched" by the film and that is normal. People is "touched" by songs, pictures, etc. everyday. So, I might ask you, what is or what has been the film. or music, or picture, or song, etc that touched you? you don't need to respond, but surely something similar caused you same or similar impression in your life as well... unless you are a robot or a very skeptical guy like me.

I've been moved by movies and TV shows, but I never ascribed anything more to it than a story that was well told, which was the point I was trying to make here.

The Passion was a nasty film for a bunch of reasons. First was it's out and out anti-Semitism.

The second was that it was just pretty much Torture Porn.

The third is that, as the guys who made South Park observed, the important thing about Jesus is what he had to say, not how he died.

 

[luchitociencia]

I've been moved by movies and TV shows, but I never ascribed anything more to it than a story that was well told, which was the point I was trying to make here.

The Passion was a nasty film for a bunch of reasons. First was it's out and out anti-Semitism.

The second was that it was just pretty much Torture Porn.

The third is that, as the guys who made South Park observed, the important thing about Jesus is what he had to say, not how he died.

No doubt that you know what you stand for. Glad to heard your opinion. I also agree with a key point you have mentioned before in this thread and I even told about to others that same point.

About the movie, I don't find any anti-antisemitism but a close copy of the words found in the gospels. The torture is greatly exaggerate for sure.

About how he died is also a kind of sacrifice, but the steps taken (in the gospel and the movie) in my opinion were unnecessary, even when Hebrews book relate such a suffering as to learn "obedience" (?).

Point of his death is that many died almost "holy" before him but no one was resurrected with a new body. With the death and resurrection in a new body, practically "a new era" is established, this is to say, loving God and obeying Him was rewarded after all and many witnesses saw him as the evidential prove.

Since then, his followers lost their fear of dying because announcing the Messiah.

 

[JoeB131]

No doubt that you know what you stand for. Glad to heard your opinion. I also agree with a key point you have mentioned before in this thread and I even told about to others that same point.

About the movie, I don't find any anti-antisemitism but a close copy of the words found in the gospels. The torture is greatly exaggerate for sure.

Oh, I agree, most of the bible is pretty awful. The Gospel of John has caused 2000 years of straight up Antisemitism, capping off with the Holocaust, which is why Vatican 2 had to "Disneyfy" the accounts. Mel, on the other hand, is one of those guys who probably thought the only problem with the Holocaust is they didn't finish the job. Seriously, if there is a case for Cancel Culture, it's Mel Gibson.

Point of his death is that many died almost "holy" before him but no one was resurrected with a new body. With the death and resurrection in a new body, practically "a new era" is established, this is to say, loving God and obeying Him was rewarded after all and many witnesses saw him as the evidential prove.

First, I don't think Jesus ever existed to start with. Secondly, if he did, it's equally plausible the he merely survived crucifixion (Maybe the Romans thought he was dead when he wasn't.)