If 25% of a commodity is removed, will the consumers' cost go up?

[kaz]

That it's not an either or proposition is what I keep telling you. You compared wind to nuclear and my point was that is NOT a choice. I don't get what you are asking me

It IS a choice and it’s one that is being made by private enterprise on a case by case basis using ROI and accounting for externalities. You seem to want to dictate investment decisions to energy companies based on something other than what their own expertise tells them do,I’m for letting the market operate freely. After all who knows the energy business better than the companies that are actually in the energy business? Government’s only role is to make sure externalities are accounted for, reward positive ones (subsidy) punish negative ones (levies).

Do you seriously not understand how government subsidies affect ROI for a private company? I said it IS a rational investment decisions for companies BECAUSE of the government subsidies. That does not make it a rational choice for the country to make.

Do you seriously not understand that subsidies (and levies) ARE THE ONLY WAY TO ACCOUNT FOR EXTERNALITIES?

Society benefits from positive externalities (in the case of wind, it's electricity delivered without the pollution and environmental destruction of the alternatives), do you think the market deserves those benefits FOR FREE? If that's the case, then you're expecting the energy company to SUBSIDIZE THE MARKET along with all of its COMPETITORS. How does that promote market freedom?

If you don't like government subsidies and levies, what's your suggested method for accounting for externalities?

I keep arguing the "positive externalities" ARE NOT WORTH IT. The cost is too high, the payback is too long, the potential is too low, we have already used the best locations and there are massive negative externalizes like they are butt ugly.

Not worth it to whom? The market disagrees with you since its buying wind generated electricity at the price offered and thus is discounting your subjective evaluation of the value proposition offered by wind power.

Not sure why you're so opposed to the market operating the way it's supposed to, other than maybe the fact that it's not making the particular investment decisions that you think it should be making. I suppose you could take that up with the directors of the Energy Companies, I'm sure they'd love to hear your ideas on improving their decision cycle outcomes.

That I don't agree with your claim positive externalities make it worth it does not support your claim that I don't understand positive externalities need to be funded by government. What you are arguing is a non-sequitur

So far, you don't appear to understand the market mechanics of externalities, which would explain why you didn't understand how they factor into ROI.

This is Econ 101 stuff.

"Not worth it to whom?"

From a cost benefit standpoint, which is what have continuously explained​

"The market disagrees with you since its buying wind generated electricity at the price offered and thus is discounting your subjective evaluation of the value proposition offered by wind power."

This is just wrong. If the market disagreed with me then GOVERNMENT WOULD NOT HAVE TO SUBSIDIZE IT. Think about how ridiculous what you just said is​

"Not sure why you're so opposed to the market operating the way it's supposed to, other than maybe the fact that it's not making the particular investment decisions that you think it should be making. I suppose you could take that up with the directors of the Energy Companies, I'm sure they'd love to hear your ideas on improving their decision cycle outcomes."

Strawman. I already corrected you on this. I am not against the market taking government money and doing it, I'm against the government funding it when they could pick better strategies and have the market fun it's own programs and accomplish more. I repeatedly explained this in detail​

 

[NightFox]

That it's not an either or proposition is what I keep telling you. You compared wind to nuclear and my point was that is NOT a choice. I don't get what you are asking me

It IS a choice and it’s one that is being made by private enterprise on a case by case basis using ROI and accounting for externalities. You seem to want to dictate investment decisions to energy companies based on something other than what their own expertise tells them do,I’m for letting the market operate freely. After all who knows the energy business better than the companies that are actually in the energy business? Government’s only role is to make sure externalities are accounted for, reward positive ones (subsidy) punish negative ones (levies).

Do you seriously not understand how government subsidies affect ROI for a private company? I said it IS a rational investment decisions for companies BECAUSE of the government subsidies. That does not make it a rational choice for the country to make.

Do you seriously not understand that subsidies (and levies) ARE THE ONLY WAY TO ACCOUNT FOR EXTERNALITIES?

Society benefits from positive externalities (in the case of wind, it's electricity delivered without the pollution and environmental destruction of the alternatives), do you think the market deserves those benefits FOR FREE? If that's the case, then you're expecting the energy company to SUBSIDIZE THE MARKET along with all of its COMPETITORS. How does that promote market freedom?

If you don't like government subsidies and levies, what's your suggested method for accounting for externalities?

I keep arguing the "positive externalities" ARE NOT WORTH IT. The cost is too high, the payback is too long, the potential is too low, we have already used the best locations and there are massive negative externalizes like they are butt ugly.

Not worth it to whom? The market disagrees with you since its buying wind generated electricity at the price offered and thus is discounting your subjective evaluation of the value proposition offered by wind power.

Not sure why you're so opposed to the market operating the way it's supposed to, other than maybe the fact that it's not making the particular investment decisions that you think it should be making. I suppose you could take that up with the directors of the Energy Companies, I'm sure they'd love to hear your ideas on improving their decision cycle outcomes.

That I don't agree with your claim positive externalities make it worth it does not support your claim that I don't understand positive externalities need to be funded by government. What you are arguing is a non-sequitur

So far, you don't appear to understand the market mechanics of externalities, which would explain why you didn't understand how they factor into ROI.

This is Econ 101 stuff.

"Not worth it to whom?"

From a cost benefit standpoint, which is what have continuously explained​

"The market disagrees with you since its buying wind generated electricity at the price offered and thus is discounting your subjective evaluation of the value proposition offered by wind power."

This is just wrong. If the market disagreed with me then GOVERNMENT WOULD NOT HAVE TO SUBSIDIZE IT. Think about how ridiculous what you just said is​

"Not sure why you're so opposed to the market operating the way it's supposed to, other than maybe the fact that it's not making the particular investment decisions that you think it should be making. I suppose you could take that up with the directors of the Energy Companies, I'm sure they'd love to hear your ideas on improving their decision cycle outcomes."

Strawman. I already corrected you on this. I am not against the market taking government money and doing it, I'm against the government funding it when they could pick better strategies and have the market fun it's own programs and accomplish more. I repeatedly explained this in detail​

First of all PLEASE LEARN HOW TO QUOTE PROPERLY, you’re making your own posts extremely difficult to give them the attention that they deserve.

Secondly, you have no basis for making a cost-benefit argument, the only ones that do are running the energy companies and clearly they DISAGREE WITH YOU because they have and still are investing in the expansion of wind energy.

Thirdly, ONCE AGAIN, government subsidies are the only method we currently have to ACCOUNT FOR POSITIVE EXTERNALITIES, do I need to explain how externalities work to you (again)? What is it exactly that you’re not clear on? Do you have some other method of accounting for them? or do you simply want to create market failures by ignoring them completely?

Lastly, you haven’t “corrected me on” anything, since if you had I wouldn’t have been forced to draw the conclusions I have based on your argument, successful communication is incumbent upon the communicator. Clearly I have failed to communicate to you the economic realities of the situation and you have failed to communicate to me what exactly your proposal is, if it’s not dictating investment decisions to energy companies then please clarify exactly what it is you want to have happen.

 

[struth]

Question... If 25% of a commodity is reduced and eventually eliminated, will that increase the costs to the consumers of that commodity?

FACT:
About a quarter (25%) of U.S. oil and an eighth of the nation's natural gas is produced on federal lands.
Supporting link: U.S. oil and natural gas production to fall in 2021, then rise in 2022 - Today in Energy - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

FACT:
If 25% of oil and gas on Federal lands is eliminated from the supply will the cost go up to gasoline consumers?

PROOF!!!

As gas prices soar, Americans can blame Joe Biden​

Biden's attack on U.S. energy producers, starting with his freeze on federal oil and gas leases, will assuredly take a toll on output down the road and cause prices at the pump to rise.
But today, Biden has pushed those prices, which were already rising because of severe weather, even higher by gratuitously alienating Saudi Arabia. The Gulf kingdom just surprised energy markets by announcing it would not raise oil output, despite developing supply constraints and rising prices.
Oil prices jumped on the news, popping 4 percent to pre-pandemic levels for the first time in a year; the surge rattled markets alread

As gas prices soar, Americans can blame Joe Biden

Doesn't mean much with the left's push toward electric vehicles. Demand could be decreased by twenty-five percent as well.

if something could happen...it means it hasn’t happened.

let’s talk about the topic of what xiden and harris have actually done...ie driven up the price of gas on working americans, which in turn has driven up the cost of everything.

thanks xiden snd the dems for screwing the working class yet again

 

[danielpalos]

Question... If 25% of a commodity is reduced and eventually eliminated, will that increase the costs to the consumers of that commodity?

FACT:
About a quarter (25%) of U.S. oil and an eighth of the nation's natural gas is produced on federal lands.
Supporting link: U.S. oil and natural gas production to fall in 2021, then rise in 2022 - Today in Energy - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

FACT:
If 25% of oil and gas on Federal lands is eliminated from the supply will the cost go up to gasoline consumers?

PROOF!!!

As gas prices soar, Americans can blame Joe Biden​

Biden's attack on U.S. energy producers, starting with his freeze on federal oil and gas leases, will assuredly take a toll on output down the road and cause prices at the pump to rise.
But today, Biden has pushed those prices, which were already rising because of severe weather, even higher by gratuitously alienating Saudi Arabia. The Gulf kingdom just surprised energy markets by announcing it would not raise oil output, despite developing supply constraints and rising prices.
Oil prices jumped on the news, popping 4 percent to pre-pandemic levels for the first time in a year; the surge rattled markets alread

As gas prices soar, Americans can blame Joe Biden

Doesn't mean much with the left's push toward electric vehicles. Demand could be decreased by twenty-five percent as well.

if something could happen...it means it hasn’t happened.

let’s talk about the topic of what xiden and harris have actually done...ie driven up the price of gas on working americans, which in turn has driven up the cost of everything.

thanks xiden snd the dems for screwing the working class yet again

How was that their fault? They weren't claiming it was Hoax.

 

[struth]

Question... If 25% of a commodity is reduced and eventually eliminated, will that increase the costs to the consumers of that commodity?

FACT:
About a quarter (25%) of U.S. oil and an eighth of the nation's natural gas is produced on federal lands.
Supporting link: U.S. oil and natural gas production to fall in 2021, then rise in 2022 - Today in Energy - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

FACT:
If 25% of oil and gas on Federal lands is eliminated from the supply will the cost go up to gasoline consumers?

PROOF!!!

As gas prices soar, Americans can blame Joe Biden​

Biden's attack on U.S. energy producers, starting with his freeze on federal oil and gas leases, will assuredly take a toll on output down the road and cause prices at the pump to rise.
But today, Biden has pushed those prices, which were already rising because of severe weather, even higher by gratuitously alienating Saudi Arabia. The Gulf kingdom just surprised energy markets by announcing it would not raise oil output, despite developing supply constraints and rising prices.
Oil prices jumped on the news, popping 4 percent to pre-pandemic levels for the first time in a year; the surge rattled markets alread

As gas prices soar, Americans can blame Joe Biden

Doesn't mean much with the left's push toward electric vehicles. Demand could be decreased by twenty-five percent as well.

if something could happen...it means it hasn’t happened.

let’s talk about the topic of what xiden and harris have actually done...ie driven up the price of gas on working americans, which in turn has driven up the cost of everything.

thanks xiden snd the dems for screwing the working class yet again

How was that their fault? They weren't claiming it was Hoax.

read the OP, nope it was very real.

 

[danielpalos]

Question... If 25% of a commodity is reduced and eventually eliminated, will that increase the costs to the consumers of that commodity?

FACT:
About a quarter (25%) of U.S. oil and an eighth of the nation's natural gas is produced on federal lands.
Supporting link: U.S. oil and natural gas production to fall in 2021, then rise in 2022 - Today in Energy - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

FACT:
If 25% of oil and gas on Federal lands is eliminated from the supply will the cost go up to gasoline consumers?

PROOF!!!

As gas prices soar, Americans can blame Joe Biden​

Biden's attack on U.S. energy producers, starting with his freeze on federal oil and gas leases, will assuredly take a toll on output down the road and cause prices at the pump to rise.
But today, Biden has pushed those prices, which were already rising because of severe weather, even higher by gratuitously alienating Saudi Arabia. The Gulf kingdom just surprised energy markets by announcing it would not raise oil output, despite developing supply constraints and rising prices.
Oil prices jumped on the news, popping 4 percent to pre-pandemic levels for the first time in a year; the surge rattled markets alread

As gas prices soar, Americans can blame Joe Biden

Doesn't mean much with the left's push toward electric vehicles. Demand could be decreased by twenty-five percent as well.

if something could happen...it means it hasn’t happened.

let’s talk about the topic of what xiden and harris have actually done...ie driven up the price of gas on working americans, which in turn has driven up the cost of everything.

thanks xiden snd the dems for screwing the working class yet again

How was that their fault? They weren't claiming it was Hoax.

read the OP, nope it was very real.

The pandemic is more real, right wingers.

 

[struth]

Question... If 25% of a commodity is reduced and eventually eliminated, will that increase the costs to the consumers of that commodity?

FACT:
About a quarter (25%) of U.S. oil and an eighth of the nation's natural gas is produced on federal lands.
Supporting link: U.S. oil and natural gas production to fall in 2021, then rise in 2022 - Today in Energy - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

FACT:
If 25% of oil and gas on Federal lands is eliminated from the supply will the cost go up to gasoline consumers?

PROOF!!!

As gas prices soar, Americans can blame Joe Biden​

Biden's attack on U.S. energy producers, starting with his freeze on federal oil and gas leases, will assuredly take a toll on output down the road and cause prices at the pump to rise.
But today, Biden has pushed those prices, which were already rising because of severe weather, even higher by gratuitously alienating Saudi Arabia. The Gulf kingdom just surprised energy markets by announcing it would not raise oil output, despite developing supply constraints and rising prices.
Oil prices jumped on the news, popping 4 percent to pre-pandemic levels for the first time in a year; the surge rattled markets alread

As gas prices soar, Americans can blame Joe Biden

Doesn't mean much with the left's push toward electric vehicles. Demand could be decreased by twenty-five percent as well.

if something could happen...it means it hasn’t happened.

let’s talk about the topic of what xiden and harris have actually done...ie driven up the price of gas on working americans, which in turn has driven up the cost of everything.

thanks xiden snd the dems for screwing the working class yet again

How was that their fault? They weren't claiming it was Hoax.

read the OP, nope it was very real.

The pandemic is more real, right wingers.

not sure what “more real” means. Both are certainly real...but one doesn’t have to do with this topic

 

[danielpalos]

Question... If 25% of a commodity is reduced and eventually eliminated, will that increase the costs to the consumers of that commodity?

FACT:
About a quarter (25%) of U.S. oil and an eighth of the nation's natural gas is produced on federal lands.
Supporting link: U.S. oil and natural gas production to fall in 2021, then rise in 2022 - Today in Energy - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

FACT:
If 25% of oil and gas on Federal lands is eliminated from the supply will the cost go up to gasoline consumers?

PROOF!!!

As gas prices soar, Americans can blame Joe Biden​

Biden's attack on U.S. energy producers, starting with his freeze on federal oil and gas leases, will assuredly take a toll on output down the road and cause prices at the pump to rise.
But today, Biden has pushed those prices, which were already rising because of severe weather, even higher by gratuitously alienating Saudi Arabia. The Gulf kingdom just surprised energy markets by announcing it would not raise oil output, despite developing supply constraints and rising prices.
Oil prices jumped on the news, popping 4 percent to pre-pandemic levels for the first time in a year; the surge rattled markets alread

As gas prices soar, Americans can blame Joe Biden

Doesn't mean much with the left's push toward electric vehicles. Demand could be decreased by twenty-five percent as well.

if something could happen...it means it hasn’t happened.

let’s talk about the topic of what xiden and harris have actually done...ie driven up the price of gas on working americans, which in turn has driven up the cost of everything.

thanks xiden snd the dems for screwing the working class yet again

How was that their fault? They weren't claiming it was Hoax.

read the OP, nope it was very real.

The pandemic is more real, right wingers.

not sure what “more real” means. Both are certainly real...but one doesn’t have to do with this topic

I am not trying to blame the democrats for something real that happened.

 

[struth]

Question... If 25% of a commodity is reduced and eventually eliminated, will that increase the costs to the consumers of that commodity?

FACT:
About a quarter (25%) of U.S. oil and an eighth of the nation's natural gas is produced on federal lands.
Supporting link: U.S. oil and natural gas production to fall in 2021, then rise in 2022 - Today in Energy - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

FACT:
If 25% of oil and gas on Federal lands is eliminated from the supply will the cost go up to gasoline consumers?

PROOF!!!

As gas prices soar, Americans can blame Joe Biden​

Biden's attack on U.S. energy producers, starting with his freeze on federal oil and gas leases, will assuredly take a toll on output down the road and cause prices at the pump to rise.
But today, Biden has pushed those prices, which were already rising because of severe weather, even higher by gratuitously alienating Saudi Arabia. The Gulf kingdom just surprised energy markets by announcing it would not raise oil output, despite developing supply constraints and rising prices.
Oil prices jumped on the news, popping 4 percent to pre-pandemic levels for the first time in a year; the surge rattled markets alread

As gas prices soar, Americans can blame Joe Biden

Doesn't mean much with the left's push toward electric vehicles. Demand could be decreased by twenty-five percent as well.

if something could happen...it means it hasn’t happened.

let’s talk about the topic of what xiden and harris have actually done...ie driven up the price of gas on working americans, which in turn has driven up the cost of everything.

thanks xiden snd the dems for screwing the working class yet again

How was that their fault? They weren't claiming it was Hoax.

read the OP, nope it was very real.

The pandemic is more real, right wingers.

not sure what “more real” means. Both are certainly real...but one doesn’t have to do with this topic

I am not trying to blame the democrats for something real that happened.

i noticed you are trying to deflect from what they are doing to something that could happen

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

My concern is allowing the Federal Government to directly manipulate potential production by withholding new leases solely for political purposes without regards to the needs of the economy THAT is dangerous since central planners invariably end up disconnecting supply and demand causing either shortages or over-supply.

Way less dangerous than ruining our environment.

 

[struth]

My concern is allowing the Federal Government to directly manipulate potential production by withholding new leases solely for political purposes without regards to the needs of the economy THAT is dangerous since central planners invariably end up disconnecting supply and demand causing either shortages or over-supply.

Way less dangerous than ruining our environment.

if xiden, harris and company were concerned about the environment they would of lifted sanctions on putin’s germany pipeline

 

[NightFox]

My concern is allowing the Federal Government to directly manipulate potential production by withholding new leases solely for political purposes without regards to the needs of the economy THAT is dangerous since central planners invariably end up disconnecting supply and demand causing either shortages or over-supply.

Way less dangerous than ruining our environment.

Artificially inducing shortages or over-supply in the market doesn’t help the environment in fact it has the exact opposite effect.

If you want an example of it, just look at the environmental disasters happening all over China due primarily to market manipulation via central planners.

 

[danielpalos]

Question... If 25% of a commodity is reduced and eventually eliminated, will that increase the costs to the consumers of that commodity?

FACT:
About a quarter (25%) of U.S. oil and an eighth of the nation's natural gas is produced on federal lands.
Supporting link: U.S. oil and natural gas production to fall in 2021, then rise in 2022 - Today in Energy - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

FACT:
If 25% of oil and gas on Federal lands is eliminated from the supply will the cost go up to gasoline consumers?

PROOF!!!

As gas prices soar, Americans can blame Joe Biden​

Biden's attack on U.S. energy producers, starting with his freeze on federal oil and gas leases, will assuredly take a toll on output down the road and cause prices at the pump to rise.
But today, Biden has pushed those prices, which were already rising because of severe weather, even higher by gratuitously alienating Saudi Arabia. The Gulf kingdom just surprised energy markets by announcing it would not raise oil output, despite developing supply constraints and rising prices.
Oil prices jumped on the news, popping 4 percent to pre-pandemic levels for the first time in a year; the surge rattled markets alread

As gas prices soar, Americans can blame Joe Biden

Doesn't mean much with the left's push toward electric vehicles. Demand could be decreased by twenty-five percent as well.

if something could happen...it means it hasn’t happened.

let’s talk about the topic of what xiden and harris have actually done...ie driven up the price of gas on working americans, which in turn has driven up the cost of everything.

thanks xiden snd the dems for screwing the working class yet again

How was that their fault? They weren't claiming it was Hoax.

read the OP, nope it was very real.

The pandemic is more real, right wingers.

not sure what “more real” means. Both are certainly real...but one doesn’t have to do with this topic

I am not trying to blame the democrats for something real that happened.

i noticed you are trying to deflect from what they are doing to something that could happen

Right wingers and You are worse.

 

[struth]

Question... If 25% of a commodity is reduced and eventually eliminated, will that increase the costs to the consumers of that commodity?

FACT:
About a quarter (25%) of U.S. oil and an eighth of the nation's natural gas is produced on federal lands.
Supporting link: U.S. oil and natural gas production to fall in 2021, then rise in 2022 - Today in Energy - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

FACT:
If 25% of oil and gas on Federal lands is eliminated from the supply will the cost go up to gasoline consumers?

PROOF!!!

As gas prices soar, Americans can blame Joe Biden​

Biden's attack on U.S. energy producers, starting with his freeze on federal oil and gas leases, will assuredly take a toll on output down the road and cause prices at the pump to rise.
But today, Biden has pushed those prices, which were already rising because of severe weather, even higher by gratuitously alienating Saudi Arabia. The Gulf kingdom just surprised energy markets by announcing it would not raise oil output, despite developing supply constraints and rising prices.
Oil prices jumped on the news, popping 4 percent to pre-pandemic levels for the first time in a year; the surge rattled markets alread

As gas prices soar, Americans can blame Joe Biden

Doesn't mean much with the left's push toward electric vehicles. Demand could be decreased by twenty-five percent as well.

if something could happen...it means it hasn’t happened.

let’s talk about the topic of what xiden and harris have actually done...ie driven up the price of gas on working americans, which in turn has driven up the cost of everything.

thanks xiden snd the dems for screwing the working class yet again

How was that their fault? They weren't claiming it was Hoax.

read the OP, nope it was very real.

The pandemic is more real, right wingers.

not sure what “more real” means. Both are certainly real...but one doesn’t have to do with this topic

I am not trying to blame the democrats for something real that happened.

i noticed you are trying to deflect from what they are doing to something that could happen

Right wingers and You are worse.

huh? are you even aware of the topic of this thread?

 

[danielpalos]

Question... If 25% of a commodity is reduced and eventually eliminated, will that increase the costs to the consumers of that commodity?

FACT:
About a quarter (25%) of U.S. oil and an eighth of the nation's natural gas is produced on federal lands.
Supporting link: U.S. oil and natural gas production to fall in 2021, then rise in 2022 - Today in Energy - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

FACT:
If 25% of oil and gas on Federal lands is eliminated from the supply will the cost go up to gasoline consumers?

PROOF!!!

As gas prices soar, Americans can blame Joe Biden​

Biden's attack on U.S. energy producers, starting with his freeze on federal oil and gas leases, will assuredly take a toll on output down the road and cause prices at the pump to rise.
But today, Biden has pushed those prices, which were already rising because of severe weather, even higher by gratuitously alienating Saudi Arabia. The Gulf kingdom just surprised energy markets by announcing it would not raise oil output, despite developing supply constraints and rising prices.
Oil prices jumped on the news, popping 4 percent to pre-pandemic levels for the first time in a year; the surge rattled markets alread

As gas prices soar, Americans can blame Joe Biden

Doesn't mean much with the left's push toward electric vehicles. Demand could be decreased by twenty-five percent as well.

if something could happen...it means it hasn’t happened.

let’s talk about the topic of what xiden and harris have actually done...ie driven up the price of gas on working americans, which in turn has driven up the cost of everything.

thanks xiden snd the dems for screwing the working class yet again

How was that their fault? They weren't claiming it was Hoax.

read the OP, nope it was very real.

The pandemic is more real, right wingers.

not sure what “more real” means. Both are certainly real...but one doesn’t have to do with this topic

I am not trying to blame the democrats for something real that happened.

i noticed you are trying to deflect from what they are doing to something that could happen

Right wingers and You are worse.

huh? are you even aware of the topic of this thread?

are you even aware of what real means?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Artificially inducing shortages or over-supply in the market doesn’t help the environment in fact it has the exact opposite effect.

Neat.

This won't do that.

And we are also smart enough to energy other ways. Which we will do more and more of.

It will be fine. And less fossil fuel burning will be best for the environment.

 

[FA_Q2]

I wasn't talking about the cost of operating the windmill after it's built, I was talking about the carbon footprint of building it.

You didn't know it takes carbon to build a windmill? Seriously?

And I said "during the manufacturing process," moron. READ what you are responding to

You didn't think to READ the link where those figures came from, here you go:

"Of course the wind blows without carbon emissions, but catching it isn’t easy. Building and erecting wind turbines requires hundreds of tons of materials — steel, concrete, fiberglass, copper, and more exotic stuff like neodymium and dysprosium used in permanent magnets.

All of it has a carbon footprint. Making steel requires the combustion of metallurgical coal in blast furnaces. Mining metals and rare earths is energy intensive. And the manufacture of concrete emits lots of carbon dioxide.

In the case of wind and solar power, those emissions are nearly all front-loaded. That contrasts with fossil-fueled electric power plants, where emissions occur continuouisly as coal and natural gas are combusted."

But then again you hardly ever provide links to the numbers you throw out there.

Windmills generate tiny energy compared to natural gas and nuclear. It doesn't take one windmill to replace a power plant, it takes thousands of them. They can't do it, it's not feasible. You're just playing games on the fringes, not solving anything

Success is found in a can.

"There is no break even point."

Of course there is

Not with burning fossil fuels. You keep harping on windmills not being carbon neutral. Why is carbon neutral the requirement for windmills when comparing it to fossil fuels which can never be carbon neutral?

Pointing at the fact windmills have a carbon footprint is rather silly tbh considering that ignores the fact there is a massive difference in that carbon footprint over those ten years and the one that a power source using fossil fuels would produce in that time period.

Strawman. "You keep harping on windmills not being carbon neutral."

Fail. That was never my argument. Not sure if you're not reading, not following or thinking of another poster, but that is NOT my argument anywhere

Actually, much carbon is released during the manufacturing process. Even in the Netherlands, it takes 10 years for a carbon footprint from a windmill to get to zero. The Netherlands is the BEST place for wind energy.

The carbon footprint for electric car batteries rarely exceeds the life of the batteries.

The whole global warming business is a scam

Not your argument?

you keep talking about the carbon footprint of windmills. What are you harping on then? The carbon footprint of windmills is irrelevant as it is a tiny fraction of the carbon footprint of, you know, actually burning carbon.

 

[struth]

Question... If 25% of a commodity is reduced and eventually eliminated, will that increase the costs to the consumers of that commodity?

FACT:
About a quarter (25%) of U.S. oil and an eighth of the nation's natural gas is produced on federal lands.
Supporting link: U.S. oil and natural gas production to fall in 2021, then rise in 2022 - Today in Energy - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

FACT:
If 25% of oil and gas on Federal lands is eliminated from the supply will the cost go up to gasoline consumers?

PROOF!!!

As gas prices soar, Americans can blame Joe Biden​

Biden's attack on U.S. energy producers, starting with his freeze on federal oil and gas leases, will assuredly take a toll on output down the road and cause prices at the pump to rise.
But today, Biden has pushed those prices, which were already rising because of severe weather, even higher by gratuitously alienating Saudi Arabia. The Gulf kingdom just surprised energy markets by announcing it would not raise oil output, despite developing supply constraints and rising prices.
Oil prices jumped on the news, popping 4 percent to pre-pandemic levels for the first time in a year; the surge rattled markets alread

As gas prices soar, Americans can blame Joe Biden

Doesn't mean much with the left's push toward electric vehicles. Demand could be decreased by twenty-five percent as well.

if something could happen...it means it hasn’t happened.

let’s talk about the topic of what xiden and harris have actually done...ie driven up the price of gas on working americans, which in turn has driven up the cost of everything.

thanks xiden snd the dems for screwing the working class yet again

How was that their fault? They weren't claiming it was Hoax.

read the OP, nope it was very real.

The pandemic is more real, right wingers.

not sure what “more real” means. Both are certainly real...but one doesn’t have to do with this topic

I am not trying to blame the democrats for something real that happened.

i noticed you are trying to deflect from what they are doing to something that could happen

Right wingers and You are worse.

huh? are you even aware of the topic of this thread?

are you even aware of what real means?

yep...it’s not something that “could happen”

 

[danielpalos]

Question... If 25% of a commodity is reduced and eventually eliminated, will that increase the costs to the consumers of that commodity?

FACT:
About a quarter (25%) of U.S. oil and an eighth of the nation's natural gas is produced on federal lands.
Supporting link: U.S. oil and natural gas production to fall in 2021, then rise in 2022 - Today in Energy - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

FACT:
If 25% of oil and gas on Federal lands is eliminated from the supply will the cost go up to gasoline consumers?

PROOF!!!

As gas prices soar, Americans can blame Joe Biden​

Biden's attack on U.S. energy producers, starting with his freeze on federal oil and gas leases, will assuredly take a toll on output down the road and cause prices at the pump to rise.
But today, Biden has pushed those prices, which were already rising because of severe weather, even higher by gratuitously alienating Saudi Arabia. The Gulf kingdom just surprised energy markets by announcing it would not raise oil output, despite developing supply constraints and rising prices.
Oil prices jumped on the news, popping 4 percent to pre-pandemic levels for the first time in a year; the surge rattled markets alread

As gas prices soar, Americans can blame Joe Biden

Doesn't mean much with the left's push toward electric vehicles. Demand could be decreased by twenty-five percent as well.

if something could happen...it means it hasn’t happened.

let’s talk about the topic of what xiden and harris have actually done...ie driven up the price of gas on working americans, which in turn has driven up the cost of everything.

thanks xiden snd the dems for screwing the working class yet again

How was that their fault? They weren't claiming it was Hoax.

read the OP, nope it was very real.

The pandemic is more real, right wingers.

not sure what “more real” means. Both are certainly real...but one doesn’t have to do with this topic

I am not trying to blame the democrats for something real that happened.

i noticed you are trying to deflect from what they are doing to something that could happen

Right wingers and You are worse.

huh? are you even aware of the topic of this thread?

are you even aware of what real means?

yep...it’s not something that “could happen”

it already happened. when is your twenty-five percent going to happen?

 

[struth]

Question... If 25% of a commodity is reduced and eventually eliminated, will that increase the costs to the consumers of that commodity?

FACT:
About a quarter (25%) of U.S. oil and an eighth of the nation's natural gas is produced on federal lands.
Supporting link: U.S. oil and natural gas production to fall in 2021, then rise in 2022 - Today in Energy - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

FACT:
If 25% of oil and gas on Federal lands is eliminated from the supply will the cost go up to gasoline consumers?

PROOF!!!

As gas prices soar, Americans can blame Joe Biden​

Biden's attack on U.S. energy producers, starting with his freeze on federal oil and gas leases, will assuredly take a toll on output down the road and cause prices at the pump to rise.
But today, Biden has pushed those prices, which were already rising because of severe weather, even higher by gratuitously alienating Saudi Arabia. The Gulf kingdom just surprised energy markets by announcing it would not raise oil output, despite developing supply constraints and rising prices.
Oil prices jumped on the news, popping 4 percent to pre-pandemic levels for the first time in a year; the surge rattled markets alread

As gas prices soar, Americans can blame Joe Biden

Doesn't mean much with the left's push toward electric vehicles. Demand could be decreased by twenty-five percent as well.

if something could happen...it means it hasn’t happened.

let’s talk about the topic of what xiden and harris have actually done...ie driven up the price of gas on working americans, which in turn has driven up the cost of everything.

thanks xiden snd the dems for screwing the working class yet again

How was that their fault? They weren't claiming it was Hoax.

read the OP, nope it was very real.

The pandemic is more real, right wingers.

not sure what “more real” means. Both are certainly real...but one doesn’t have to do with this topic

I am not trying to blame the democrats for something real that happened.

i noticed you are trying to deflect from what they are doing to something that could happen

Right wingers and You are worse.

huh? are you even aware of the topic of this thread?

are you even aware of what real means?

yep...it’s not something that “could happen”

it already happened. when is your twenty-five percent going to happen?

hahaa no it hasn’t already, hence why you said could! duh