If crimes "begin and end with the criminals who commit them,"....

[BenNatuf]

The church was converted to commemmorate the conquest, any way you look at it, its commemorative of conquest and I'm pretty sure the Imam knows the signifficance of it, especially since to my knowledge the Mosque at Cordoba is the largest Mosque in Eurpoe and has some degree of signifficance to Muslims. At least those who know their history... like an Imam. It is fair to say that his intent may be exactly what he says it is, but it is equally fair to say that as an Imam he will know the signifficance, even if he does reject it as precedent. And he will know what it will mean to our enemies, he will know that, it should be a consideration for him most of all given his stated reasons for wanting to build the Mosque. Knowing his own traditions and culture he should know those things.

That wasn't my question.

"I was asking why you thought the name referred to the converted church rather than to the city itself."

Doesn't matter which it refferences, they are the same thing, a conquest. The Cordoba complex is the third largest Islamic complex in the world, I'm fairly certain the Imam would know of it since he named his project "the cordoba initiative". He can say (and believe himself) that in namimg it that he wanted tom commemmorate what he considers a shining example of Muslim tollerance exemplified by the rule of Cordoba... but he knows the Mosque is there, and he knows its history. That may not be a part of his reasoning, but he knows it none the less.

 

[Kalam]

Doesn't matter which it refferences, they are the same thing, a conquest.

So was America, along with most nation-states currently or previously in existence. The Moorish presence in Al-Andalus spanned almost 800 years, yet the conquest is supposed (by you) to be the most significant event in Muslim Spain's history? By extension of your logic, no organization should name a building after Washington DC lest it be interpreted as a celebration of conquering Native American lands.

 

[BenNatuf]

Doesn't matter which it refferences, they are the same thing, a conquest.

So was America, along with most nation-states currently or previously in existence. The Moorish presence in Al-Andalus spanned almost 800 years, yet the conquest is supposed (by you) to be the most significant event in Muslim Spain's history? By extension of your logic, no organization should name a building after Washington DC lest it be interpreted as a celebration of conquering Native American lands.

So what? We're not at war with Wahington DC, if we were, I'd have a problem with naming something "Washington" too, if Washington DC had a tradition and culture of conquering things and renaming them Washington as a commemmorative of the conquest. We are at war with AQ, an organization that uses Islamist traditions and culture to forward their goals, an organization which is adept at inflaming Muslim passions by doing so, an organization which is aware of their own traditions and will know how to use them to the best effect to aid themselves. I believe it is prudent to keep tools they can use to great effect out of their hands so long as the war endures. Incidently the conquest of Cordoba is considered pretty signifficant to Muslims too. Denial or a refusal to see won't change that.

Building this Mosque at this site will be used by them as proof of Allah's blessing on their endeavors irregardless of the builders intent. It will be used as a symbol of Allah's ultimate victory over the infidel. It will be used to butress the belief in their ultimate victory and give them hope. It will be used to instill marale in thier fighters. Morale is a combat multiplier, troops who have Morale fight harder and stay in the fight longer. For them this Mosque is a tool to make better weapons out of their followers. Doesn't matter if you, or I, or Imam Rauf sees it that way, thats what it will be for them. As such, it is a danger for us.

 

[rikules]

If crimes "begin and end with the criminals who commit them,"..

Then why is Charles Manson in prison?

apparently
acccording to this conservative logic
hitler was NOT GUILTY of any crimes or atrocities during WWII

after all

he didn't build any ovens
he didn't toss anyone into any gas chambers

he didn't kill anyone

 

[manifold]

To the OP and those that seem to be in agreement with it's bogus implication...


...willful ignorance and half-baked hyperbolic nonsense is not a compelling argument.

 

[Trajan]

I am merely showing the illogic and inconsistency in what she said, point by point, fact by fact (and which no one is so far disputing, so what I'm saying is apparently indisputable).

What's wrong, exactly, with what I'm doing?

not a thing. however; seen in the light of the fav. bugaboo de juer, the Big "H", how much energy did you expend on her behalf or anyone's for that matter who was accused of driving this guy over the edge into a murderous rage when in fact it was none of the above, zip nada bupkas...and had nothing to do with the right or left, not Palin and her graphic, not Kanjorski's rage against Rick Scott etc etc etc.?

No one really wants to talk about anythiing else. That's why I'm talking about this.

and its just a distraction......anyone nit picking her because she had the effrontery to speak up is, well thats pretty rich considering how this all played out.

 

[Ravi]

than why the outrage over the Mosque at Ground Zero?

There is a difference between crimes criminals and ongoing criminal enterprises .
Islam is an ongoing criminal enterprise .

Like right wing radio?

 

[Ravi]

Revere

That aside Your analogy is flawed. If 20 people were killed by a gun, then you have a point. To make your analogy similar you would have to have somebody open a place that sells aeroplanes. IOW, a mosque had nothing to do with it....

Actually, mosques were used to plot attacks, here and all over the world.

That's not in dispute.

Like right wing radio?

 

[HUGGY]

than why the outrage over the Mosque at Ground Zero?

There is a difference between crimes criminals and ongoing criminal enterprises .
Islam is an ongoing criminal enterprise .

Like right wing radio?

All Judeo Christian Islam religion is an on going criminal enterprise. Taking money and promising gain(an afterlife) is fraud.

 

[editec]

than why the outrage over the Mosque at Ground Zero?

Brilliant question, geauxtohell.

This theory demands that we buy into the theory that the 9-11 perps were just nutters and in no way were they motivated by the hatemonging they were exposed to, right?

That theory makes about as much sense (read none) as the theory that this perp killed the politician for no reason other than he was crazy, I suppose.

 

[editec]

than why the outrage over the Mosque at Ground Zero?

For the same reason the local Glock dealer would not open up a store in the same strip mall where 20 people got shot, 6 killed.

It's the decent and respectful thing to do.

So what does it then say about Palin's having just accepted an invitation to speak at a GUN SHOW immediately AFTER the AZ shootings?

That she has NO DECENCY AND RESPECT?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

than why the outrage over the Mosque at Ground Zero?

For the same reason the local Glock dealer would not open up a store in the same strip mall where 20 people got shot, 6 killed.

It's the decent and respectful thing to do.

You are somehow equating the religion of a set of perpertators to a henous crime...that seem right to you, in the land of the free?

What part of the reality that Muslim terrorists USE their religion to justify their terror, murder and mayhem, don't you grasp?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

than why the outrage over the Mosque at Ground Zero?

For the same reason the local Glock dealer would not open up a store in the same strip mall where 20 people got shot, 6 killed.

It's the decent and respectful thing to do.

So what does it then say about Palin's having just accepted an invitation to speak at a GUN SHOW immediately AFTER the AZ shootings?

That she has NO DECENCY AND RESPECT?

Was the Gun show at the strip mall where the shootings occurred? Was it even in the same city? How about State?

 

[BenNatuf]

than why the outrage over the Mosque at Ground Zero?

Brilliant question, geauxtohell.

This theory demands that we buy into the theory that the 9-11 perps were just nutters and in no way were they motivated by the hatemonging they were exposed to, right?

That theory makes about as much sense (read none) as the theory that this perp killed the politician for no reason other than he was crazy, I suppose.

You're right... he may have had a wedgy

The night before the rampage, authorities say, Mr. Loughner, 22, dropped off at a drugstore a roll of 35-millimeter film containing images he had shot of himself posing with a Glock semiautomatic pistol while wearing a red G-string

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/15/u...l=1&adxnnlx=1295035206-rUIzHKSNKwumbsmhZBlkaA

Attempting to assign a motive to this nutbag is just silly.

 

[Ravi]

To the OP and those that seem to be in agreement with it's bogus implication...


...willful ignorance and half-baked hyperbolic nonsense is not a compelling argument.

Let me help you out.

He is saying that the right blames crimes committed by Muslims on Islamic rhetoric while claiming that "conservative" rhetoric has no effect on anyone.

 

[manifold]

To the OP and those that seem to be in agreement with it's bogus implication...


...willful ignorance and half-baked hyperbolic nonsense is not a compelling argument.

Let me help you out.

He is saying that the right blames crimes committed by Muslims on Islamic rhetoric while claiming that "conservative" rhetoric has no effect on anyone.

I know.

And it's still bogus for two reasons.

1) Nobody says conservative rhetoric has no effect on anyone. In fact, it's desired effect is to influence how people vote and it does an ok job in that regard.

2) To compare any American political rhetoric, no matter how allegedly 'violent,' to the edicts issued by OBL and other Islamic terrorist leaders is about as fucking retarded as it gets.

Take a step out of the trees once in a while and look at the forest.

 

[Ravi]

To the OP and those that seem to be in agreement with it's bogus implication...


...willful ignorance and half-baked hyperbolic nonsense is not a compelling argument.

Let me help you out.

He is saying that the right blames crimes committed by Muslims on Islamic rhetoric while claiming that "conservative" rhetoric has no effect on anyone.

I know.

And it's still bogus for two reasons.

1) Nobody says conservative rhetoric has no effect on anyone. In fact, it's desired effect is to influence how people vote and it does an ok job in that regard.

2) To compare any American political rhetoric, no matter how allegedly 'violent,' to the edicts issued by OBL and other Islamic terrorist leaders is about as fucking retarded as it gets.

Take a step out of the trees once in a while and look at the forest.

There is absolutely no evidence that supports OBL or terrorists being connected to the mosque in question.

Use a ladder next time and climb out of the tree instead of falling on your head.

 

[sangha]

For the same reason the local Glock dealer would not open up a store in the same strip mall where 20 people got shot, 6 killed.

It's the decent and respectful thing to do.

You are somehow equating the religion of a set of perpertators to a henous crime...that seem right to you, in the land of the free?

What part of the reality that Muslim terrorists USE their religion to justify their terror, murder and mayhem, don't you grasp?

And what part of of the reality that christians use their religion to justify their terror, murder and mayhem don't you grasp?

 

[manifold]

Let me help you out.

He is saying that the right blames crimes committed by Muslims on Islamic rhetoric while claiming that "conservative" rhetoric has no effect on anyone.

I know.

And it's still bogus for two reasons.

1) Nobody says conservative rhetoric has no effect on anyone. In fact, it's desired effect is to influence how people vote and it does an ok job in that regard.

2) To compare any American political rhetoric, no matter how allegedly 'violent,' to the edicts issued by OBL and other Islamic terrorist leaders is about as fucking retarded as it gets.

Take a step out of the trees once in a while and look at the forest.

There is absolutely no evidence that supports OBL or terrorists being connected to the mosque in question.

I didn't say there was.

Try reading for comprehension next time.

Can explain how you connect the ground zero mosque and violent crimes committed by Muslim terrorists? I don't believe there is one but you seem feel differently about it.

 

[BenNatuf]

Let me help you out.

He is saying that the right blames crimes committed by Muslims on Islamic rhetoric while claiming that "conservative" rhetoric has no effect on anyone.

I know.

And it's still bogus for two reasons.

1) Nobody says conservative rhetoric has no effect on anyone. In fact, it's desired effect is to influence how people vote and it does an ok job in that regard.

2) To compare any American political rhetoric, no matter how allegedly 'violent,' to the edicts issued by OBL and other Islamic terrorist leaders is about as fucking retarded as it gets.

Take a step out of the trees once in a while and look at the forest.

There is absolutely no evidence that supports OBL or terrorists being connected to the mosque in question.

Use a ladder next time and climb out of the tree instead of falling on your head.

Except of course that the new front man since removing Imama Rauf is linked to an unindicted co-conspiritor in the first WTC bombing who was a character witness for the blind Sheik.

OOps!!

Not that it matters cause AQ scum don't need to be connected to any of them to use the Mosque in their war against us.