If selling a gay couple a wedding cake means a "Christian" baker participated in the marriage...

[SweetSue92]

What does that matter? There are increasingly gay conservatives all over the place, that will find Muslim bakers, florists, photographers and FORCE them to serve their weddings. Are you equal opportunity, Joe? If it's good enough to force Christians is it good enough to force Muslims? Or do Muslims get special rights?

This is an easy question.

Not really... since by your own admission, no one has ever found a Muslim Baker committing the offenses you say, then it's kind of a moot point.

Most Muslims in this country keep their heads down because the last thing they want to do is give any white bigot an excuse to go after them.

So your inability to address the point means you think Muslims should be excluded then. Correct? Muslims photographers should not be forced to photograph gay weddings; only Christians should.

Okay, then, Joe, we know where you stand. That's just straight up bigotry against Christians.

 

[JoeB131]

So your inability to address the point means you think Muslims should be excluded then. Correct? Muslims photographers should not be forced to photograph gay weddings; only Christians should.

Again, where is the case where this happened?

We have SPECIFIC Cases of Christians refusing service to gays, that's what we are litigating here.. not something that didn't happen.

 

[JoeB131]

Okay, then, Joe, we know where you stand. That's just straight up bigotry against Christians.

Again, not the issue here. The issue is what the laws are and how they should be applied. When you have a specific case of Mulsims refusing service to ANYONE, then I will address it.

 

[SweetSue92]

So your inability to address the point means you think Muslims should be excluded then. Correct? Muslims photographers should not be forced to photograph gay weddings; only Christians should.

Again, where is the case where this happened?

We have SPECIFIC Cases of Christians refusing service to gays, that's what we are litigating here.. not something that didn't happen.

Muslims would be living under the VERY SAME precepts set out for Christians, and BELIEVE me, there are gay conservatives just waiting to test that out. Believe it. You haven't answered Joe, and that means you're not okay with that, right? You don't want to force Muslims to serve gay marriages, just Christians. Which I understand about Leftists. Believe me.

My animus is not toward the Muslims who, like Christians, have mostly sincere moral opposition to gay marriage.

It's with you seething hypocrites who can't even say, "yes, what's good for the goose is good for the gander", so bigoted you are against Christians. And so blinded by the "diversity glamour" of Muslims, which is sad. Like middle school girls with crushes on anything in a hijab or with brown skin. It's intellectually so weak a position, it's reprehensible.

I understand this, Joe. A lot of us do. Understanding it does not make it any more acceptable.

 

[SweetSue92]

Okay, then, Joe, we know where you stand. That's just straight up bigotry against Christians.

Again, not the issue here. The issue is what the laws are and how they should be applied. When you have a specific case of Mulsims refusing service to ANYONE, then I will address it.

You can't address it only because you have an inconsistent, hypocritical stance, which anyone can see. You have no problem addressing any other hypotheticals in other situations.

This is absolutely cowardly and anyone can see it, Joe. You might as well come out and say what you mean: Muslims can refuse service and I'd be fine with that. It's schoolyard games you're playing.

 

[JoeB131]

Muslims would be living under the VERY SAME precepts set out for Christians, and BELIEVE me, there are gay conservatives just waiting to test that out. Believe it. You haven't answered Joe, and that means you're not okay with that, right? You don't want to force Muslims to serve gay marriages, just Christians. Which I understand about Leftists. Believe me.

Again, bring me a case, and I will evaluate the merits.. until then, you are talking out of your backside.

It's with you seething hypocrites who can't even say, "yes, what's good for the goose is good for the gander", so bigoted you are against Christians. And so blinded by the "diversity glamour" of Muslims, which is sad. Like middle school girls with crushes on anything in a hijab or with brown skin. It's intellectually so weak a position, it's reprehensible.

Here's the difference.. in this country, Muslims aren't trying to impose their value system on the rest of us. in their own countries, that's kind of not our problem.

You give me a case where a Muslim violated the law, I'll be just as keen on making sure they get the same punishment that the Christians got.

I kind of look at other countries like Star Trek's Prime Directive. It's not our place to interfere, because, frankly, we'll probably make things worse. A lot of the fundamentalism you see in the Islamic World today is a reaction to Western imperialism.

I understand this, Joe. A lot of us do. Understanding it does not make it any more acceptable.

No, most of us won't buy into your racism because you try to dress it up in a "progressive" suit. Nobody really thinks you care about Islamic women or gays.

 

[SweetSue92]

Muslims would be living under the VERY SAME precepts set out for Christians, and BELIEVE me, there are gay conservatives just waiting to test that out. Believe it. You haven't answered Joe, and that means you're not okay with that, right? You don't want to force Muslims to serve gay marriages, just Christians. Which I understand about Leftists. Believe me.

Again, bring me a case, and I will evaluate the merits.. until then, you are talking out of your backside.

It's with you seething hypocrites who can't even say, "yes, what's good for the goose is good for the gander", so bigoted you are against Christians. And so blinded by the "diversity glamour" of Muslims, which is sad. Like middle school girls with crushes on anything in a hijab or with brown skin. It's intellectually so weak a position, it's reprehensible.

Here's the difference.. in this country, Muslims aren't trying to impose their value system on the rest of us. in their own countries, that's kind of not our problem.

You give me a case where a Muslim violated the law, I'll be just as keen on making sure they get the same punishment that the Christians got.

I kind of look at other countries like Star Trek's Prime Directive. It's not our place to interfere, because, frankly, we'll probably make things worse. A lot of the fundamentalism you see in the Islamic World today is a reaction to Western imperialism.

I understand this, Joe. A lot of us do. Understanding it does not make it any more acceptable.

No, most of us won't buy into your racism because you try to dress it up in a "progressive" suit. Nobody really thinks you care about Islamic women or gays.

"Islam" isn't a race, it's a choice. It's an ideology. Or is it okay if I call you "racist" because you hate Christianity? Hey, that would be a whole new start to the new year wouldn't it, Joe?

 

[JoeB131]

"Islam" isn't a race, it's a choice. It's an ideology. Or is it okay if I call you "racist" because you hate Christianity? Hey, that would be a whole new start to the new year wouldn't it, Joe?

It would be kind of a retarded start. I am assuming you didn't make a resolution to sound less retarded this year.

 

[SweetSue92]

"Islam" isn't a race, it's a choice. It's an ideology. Or is it okay if I call you "racist" because you hate Christianity? Hey, that would be a whole new start to the new year wouldn't it, Joe?

It would be kind of a retarded start. I am assuming you didn't make a resolution to sound less retarded this year.

Joe, at least I don't call gays "Old Dykes in habits", do I?

Are You Going to Hell?

You know, I'm really less and less impressed with Leftists as I go here. You best not ever, and I mean ever, accuse me of "hating gays" ever again Joe.

 

[Silhouette]

Again, where is the case where this happened?

We have SPECIFIC Cases of Christians refusing service to gays, that's what we are litigating here.. not something that didn't happen.

There was a specific case YouTubed of a Muslim baker refusing to bake a wedding cake for two men.

 

[hadit]

Baking a cake for someone marrying for the third or fourth time is participating in adultery. But this never seems to bother the so-called Christian bible-compliant bakers.

When a Kentucky clerk has been married married four times herself while she refuses to sign a state marriage license for a couple marrying the first time is apparently a blessed act.

Jesus said nothing about gays, but he said a helluva lot about hypocrites.

This isn't just about Jesus or Christianity. It's about anyone's fundamental belief system. Nobody can be forced to celebrate behaviors, ideals or rituals they find morally wrong. 1st Amendment.

In today's culture, Political Correctness trumps anything so archaic as the law.

 

[hadit]

So you don’t see a problem with flagrant judicial overreach when it suits your cult agenda Sparky? Why am I not shocked?

Do you support judicial overreach in the new conservative Court? Say on issues like illegal aliens or transgender crap? No? Then a court’s powers should be reined in, right?

When the courts restrict rights, they should be reigned in.

Yes.

But since I consider Gorsuch and Kavanaugh to be illegal appointments, nothing they say interests me.

Yet their opinion on cases means a whole lot, while your's means, well, nothing. That's the problem when your wishes conflict with reality.

 

[hadit]

This nonsense over a cake has gone of far too long without anyone asking why any self respecting gay couple would want to have their wedding cake made by a pair of bigoted so called Christians. I don’t get it.

It's easy to understand when you realize their actual motivation. If all they wanted was a cake, they would have simply go down the street to another bakery., but that's not what the Christophobes were after. They wanted to harass. When you realize that, it's easy to understand.

 

[hadit]

What does that matter? There are increasingly gay conservatives all over the place, that will find Muslim bakers, florists, photographers and FORCE them to serve their weddings. Are you equal opportunity, Joe? If it's good enough to force Christians is it good enough to force Muslims? Or do Muslims get special rights?

This is an easy question.

Not really... since by your own admission, no one has ever found a Muslim Baker committing the offenses you say, then it's kind of a moot point.

Most Muslims in this country keep their heads down because the last thing they want to do is give any white bigot an excuse to go after them.

So your inability to address the point means you think Muslims should be excluded then. Correct? Muslims photographers should not be forced to photograph gay weddings; only Christians should.

Okay, then, Joe, we know where you stand. That's just straight up bigotry against Christians.

Christophobes are like that.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I support gay marriage quite fully.

That being said, there is a fine line between the right to equal accommodation and the right to free expression.

If a gay couple were to walk into a bakery, spot a cake and ask to purchase it for their wedding, the baker should not be allowed to refuse them service.

If the same gay couple were to walk into the same baker and require certain art work or words be created just for their cake, the baker should be allowed to refuse.

 

[Karl Rand]

This nonsense over a cake has gone of far too long without anyone asking why any self respecting gay couple would want to have their wedding cake made by a pair of bigoted so called Christians. I don’t get it.

I don't think it's a matter of wanting THAT particular cake from that particular baker.

I think its a matter of assuring that they have access to goods, services and products, just like everyone else does.

Here's how the Christian Bakers could solve their problem. Put up a big sign in their store that says, "We consider gay marriage to be immoral, but we will comply with public accommodation laws. However, please be advised that all proceeds from a Gay Wedding Cake will be donated to Gay Conversion Therapy clinics."

Interesting idea unless Gay ‘Conversion’ Therapy is illegal in that state which in my view it should be.

 

[Karl Rand]

Except you, I, and everyone else knows this has nothing to do with religion. It is about hate, and nothing but hate. It is about hypocrites using the bible as a shield for their hate. Just like their KKK predecessors.

They’ll come back at you with ‘Love the sinner, not the sin’.
The elephant in the room is the use of a so called holy book to justify certain behaviours.
Centuries of mistranslation, forgery and misinterpretation of scripture have been used to justify homophobia when modern biblical studies reveal that text as used by ’true believers' today is anything but The Word of God. The danger comes with fundamentalism which deliberately ignores the last several years of biblical studies. The obsession with what others do in the bedroom appears even more peculiar if we examine the hundreds of other prohibitions (sins) listed in the bible that fundamentalists choses to totally ignore.

 

[Silhouette]

Except you, I, and everyone else knows this has nothing to do with religion. It is about hate, and nothing but hate. It is about hypocrites using the bible as a shield for their hate. Just like their KKK predecessors.

They’ll come back at you with ‘Love the sinner, not the sin’.
The elephant in the room is the use of a so called holy book to justify certain behaviours.
Centuries of mistranslation, forgery and misinterpretation of scripture have been used to justify homophobia when modern biblical studies reveal that text as used by ’true believers' today is anything but The Word of God. The danger comes with fundamentalism which deliberately ignores the last several years of biblical studies. The obsession with what others do in the bedroom appears even more peculiar if we examine the hundreds of other prohibitions (sins) listed in the bible that fundamentalists choses to totally ignore.

The Bible will not be consulted in any Court proceedings on this issue. Behaviors, ideals & rituals of any sort will not be allowed to be forced on anyone whose personal moral code conflicts. Be they Christian, Jew, Muslim, agnostic or atheist.

An atheist, for example, may have very strong personal convictions on a marriage contract binding kids away from either a mother or father for life.

 

[JoeB131]

Joe, at least I don't call gays "Old Dykes in habits", do I?

Are You Going to Hell?

You know, I'm really less and less impressed with Leftists as I go here. You best not ever, and I mean ever, accuse me of "hating gays" ever again Joe.

Oh, please... I'm not the one who wants to deprive them of basic human rights because the One Percenters have played on your sexual fears.

Although Sister Mary Butch was pretty scary, come to think of it.

The problem with these women weren't that they were gay, it was that they were unable to come to terms with it and inflicted their misery on kids.

Then again, if you are a lesbian and you get locked up with a bunch of other lesbians and you can't touch, you could get frustrated pretty quickly.

 

[JoeB131]

I support gay marriage quite fully.

That being said, there is a fine line between the right to equal accommodation and the right to free expression.

If a gay couple were to walk into a bakery, spot a cake and ask to purchase it for their wedding, the baker should not be allowed to refuse them service.

If the same gay couple were to walk into the same baker and require certain art work or words be created just for their cake, the baker should be allowed to refuse.

No, he shouldn't, unless he refuses to put writing on anyone's cake.