If Ukraine loses the war and Russia occupies Ukraine, the US and Europe may not have a choice, but to go to war

[Tom Paine 1949]

The Ukrainian offensive has failed, and Russia has re-stabilized itself and the Ukraine is exhausting itself so let's not encourage Russia to fight to a win, let's just give them one by settling on the basis of the present lines, giving Russia 20% of Ukraine, abandoning millions of Ukrainians to Russian tyranny and perhaps sanctions relief … But you're not a Putinhead at all, are you?

No. As you well know — little compulsive liar — I am not “a Putinhead.” Furthermore, I have not proposed ending U.S. military & economic aid to Ukraine.

You however are unable to even imagine that the Ukrainians themselves may at some point tire of fighting and dying in what may become an unwinnable “endless war.”

Of course you can always go there yourself and fight and maybe die in some Ukrainian’s place. Yes, I encourage that. You obviously need that sort of an education, as you seem to have no idea whatever of how horrible war really is.

 

[Rocko]

Zelensky: Ukrainian loss could force US to choose between ‘collapse of NATO’ or war

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said Thursday that a loss to Russia could ultimately force the U.S. to choose between the “collapse of NATO” or going to war. “If Ukraine would lose, if Russi…

thehill.com

I know it is scary, but that may be the only choice left. Putin is not going to stop at Ukraine, if he occupies the country.

This war has left Russia badly bruised. They’re not going to be in a rush to fight another war after this one.

 

[JimH52]

This war has left Russia badly bruised. They’re not going to be in a rush to fight another war after this one.

They are very volatile to any and all threads. Poootin's war sure messed them up.

 

[Silver Cat]

This war has left Russia badly bruised. They’re not going to be in a rush to fight another war after this one.

In fact, they are building their Army exactly to be able to fight another war, including North-Western direction (against Finland and Norway).

 

[Silver Cat]

They are very volatile to any and all threads. Poootin's war sure messed them up.

Really? Who said you that?

 

[Likkmee]

Keep pushing. You'll be...paybacks are a byatch.

 

[BackAgain]

If hostile aliens land on an island off of India, the US may end up going to war!

 

[toomuchtime_]

No. As you well know — little compulsive liar — I am not “a Putinhead.” Furthermore, I have not proposed ending U.S. military & economic aid to Ukraine.

You however are unable to even imagine that the Ukrainians themselves may at some point tire of fighting and dying in what may become an unwinnable “endless war.”

Of course you can always go there yourself and fight and maybe die in some Ukrainian’s place. Yes, I encourage that. You obviously need that sort of an education, as you seem to have no idea whatever of how horrible war really is.

Disabuse yourself of the notion you are being clever. Your post is about urging Ukraine to settle now and give up 20% of its land, abandon millions of its citizens to Russian brutality and tyranny and provide some sanctions relief for Russia.

You begin by trying to differentiate yourself from Ritter, but then you deliver the same message, that the Ukrainian offensive has failed - Putin's words but not what the Ukrainians or their allies believe - Russia has restabilized itself - wishful thinking - that Ukraine is exhausting itself in this war - both sides are exhausting themselves but Ukraine has powerful allies with the deepest pockets in the world to resupply it, and Russia has no one.

Your post aligns perfectly with Russian propaganda, and you urge Ukraine and its allies exactly what Putin now wants, 20% of Ukraine and the opportunity to rebuild Russia's shattered economy and military to continue Putin's westward expansion.

Your argument has three parts; first you suggest Ukraine cannot win the war, then you argue that war is hell, and you conclude that Ukraine should give Putin whatever he wants to end the fighting.

And then you shamelessly deny that you are a Putinhead. Give it up; you're not clever enough to bring this off.

 

[toomuchtime_]

In fact, they are building their Army exactly to be able to fight another war, including North-Western direction (against Finland and Norway).

Bullshit. They can't ever replace their battlefield losses let alone build their army for another war.

 

[Markle]

Medical. auto-tech. Ag tech, Musical accomplishments. Filmography. Tools. Just everything. Look at the investments made to have this access to Uke greatness !

So, the bottom line is ZERO! Thank you!

 

[Silver Cat]

Bullshit. They can't ever replace their battlefield losses let alone build their army for another war.

Of course they can and of course they do.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Disabuse yourself of the notion you are being clever. Your post is about urging Ukraine to settle now and give up 20% of its land, abandon millions of its citizens to Russian brutality and tyranny and provide some sanctions relief for Russia.

You begin by trying to differentiate yourself from Ritter, but then you deliver the same message, that the Ukrainian offensive has failed - Putin's words but not what the Ukrainians or their allies believe - Russia has restabilized itself - wishful thinking - that Ukraine is exhausting itself in this war - both sides are exhausting themselves but Ukraine has powerful allies with the deepest pockets in the world to resupply it, and Russia has no one.

Your post aligns perfectly with Russian propaganda, and you urge Ukraine and its allies exactly what Putin now wants, 20% of Ukraine and the opportunity to rebuild Russia's shattered economy and military to continue Putin's westward expansion.

Your argument has three parts; first you suggest Ukraine cannot win the war, then you argue that war is hell, and you conclude that Ukraine should give Putin whatever he wants to end the fighting.

And then you shamelessly deny that you are a Putinhead. Give it up; you're not clever enough to bring this off.

It is not worth my wasting too much time arguing with a dishonest slanderer, especially one who cannot recognize an “if-then” clause, one with a hypothetical statement followed by a critical conclusion.

I never said Ukraine cannot win this war, and already made many references to the Russian regime’s instability and the possibility that the Russian Federation itself may collapse or dissolve into different parts.

You insist on proving yourself to be a cowardly and intellectually dishonest slanderer whose one-sided views of the world are those of U.S. neo-liberal / neo-con “Think Tanks.” Unfortunately, those U.S. views sometimes do not represent the real interests of genuine democracy and freedom, or even concern themselves much about the real progress or even survival of people we ostensibly are helping. Think Afghanistan, Syria, or the Vietnam War.

 

[Markle]

No Cuban port was blockaded and there was no threat to stop any shipping but Russian ships suspected of carrying nuclear weapons to Cuba. There was clearly no blockade.

That's just goofy. Kindly learn some history. I lived in Miami when it was happening. Yes, there was a blockade, it was not near land, it was out to sea. We were probably as close to nuclear war as we have become until today.

Russian ships were approaching the blockade line and the world watched. At the last minute, the Russian ships stopped dead in the water and eventually turned and headed back to Russia.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Of course they can and of course they do.

Only in your imagination.

 

[toomuchtime_]

It is not worth my wasting too much time arguing with a dishonest slanderer, especially one who cannot recognize an “if-then” clause, one with a hypothetical statement followed by a critical conclusion.

I never said Ukraine cannot win this war, and already made many references to the Russian regime’s instability and the possibility that the Russian Federation itself may collapse or dissolve into different parts.

You insist on proving yourself to be a cowardly and intellectually dishonest slanderer whose one-sided views of the world are those of U.S. neo-liberal / neo-con “Think Tanks.” Unfortunately, those U.S. views sometimes do not represent the real interests of genuine democracy and freedom, or even concern themselves much about the real progress or even survival of people we ostensibly are helping. Think Afghanistan, Syria, or the Vietnam War.

The bottom line is, your views align perfectly with Putin's and your conclusion, that Ukraine to settle now on Putin's terms, is exactly Putin's conclusion, Putinhead. You are just not clever enough to hide this.

 

[toomuchtime_]

That's just goofy. Kindly learn some history. I lived in Miami when it was happening. Yes, there was a blockade, it was not near land, it was out to sea. We were probably as close to nuclear war as we have become until today.

Russian ships were approaching the blockade line and the world watched. At the last minute, the Russian ships stopped dead in the water and eventually turned and headed back to Russia.

It was not a blockade because the US only threatened to stop Russian ships suspected on carrying nuclear weapons, but not other ships. The confrontation with Russian does not mean there was a blockade of any Cuban port.

 

[José]

and your "50%" is just another lie in your
long, long history of lying on this board.

TOOMUCHTIME
​

You and Tom Payne have more in common than one might think at first glance so maybe you should stop trying "to rip each other a new one" as Alexander said in a previous post.

Your constant referrences to "Ukraine this", "Ukraine that", clearly shows that you confuse the country that exists outside your heads, that for 30 years and counting, was utterly unable to come to an agreement about its place in Europe (a rift so profound that ended up destroying ukrainian democracy and territorial integrity themselves) with the part of the ukrainian society that currently controls the federal government in Kiev and has been trying to impose their vision for Ukraine on the rest of the country for the entire existence of Ukraine as an independent state.

I know it's extremely painful for people in the West to abandon the idealized view of a united democratic nation fighting for its survival against the totalitarian hordes of autocratic Russia, it's hard to give up the simplistic notion of a unequivocal fight between "Good vs Evil" but the fact remains that what they call "Ukraine" is nothing but a self-serving figment of their own imagination.

 

[Silver Cat]

It was not a blockade because the US only threatened to stop Russian ships suspected on carrying nuclear weapons, but not other ships. The confrontation with Russian does not mean there was a blockade of any Cuban port.

It is a violation of the free sea trade, outside American territorial waters. And, technically, it was an act of war. But, of course, that act of the war was justified by the vital necessarity of the national safety of the USA, same way, as the Russian operation in Ukraine is justified by the existencial threat from possible deployment of American missiles in Ukraine.

 

[Markle]

It was not a blockade because the US only threatened to stop Russian ships suspected on carrying nuclear weapons, but not other ships. The confrontation with Russian does not mean there was a blockade of any Cuban port.

No one said there was a blockade of any Cuban port.

But, you're 100% right, just as you always are right.

Kennedy imposes naval blockade of Cuba , Oct. 22, 1962

On this day in 1962, President John F. Kennedy imposed a U.S. naval blockade of Cuba after U.S. spy planes found Soviet missile sites on the Communist-ruled island.

www.politico.com

 

[toomuchtime_]

and your "50%" is just another lie in your
long, long history of lying on this board.

TOOMUCHTIME
​

You and Tom Payne have more in common than one might think at first glance so maybe you should stop trying "to rip each other a new one" as Alexander said in a previous post.

Your constant referrences to "Ukraine this", "Ukraine that", clearly shows that you confuse the country that exists outside your heads, that for 30 years and counting, was utterly unable to come to an agreement about its place in Europe (a rift so profound that ended up destroying the ukrainian democracy and territorial integrity themselves) with the part of the ukrainian society that currently controls the federal government in Kiev and has been trying to impose its vision for Ukraine on the rest of the country for the entire existence of Ukraine as an independent state.

I know it's extremely painful for people in the West to abandon the idealized view of a united democratic nation fighting for its survival against the totalitarian hordes of autocratic Russia, it's hard to give up the simplistic notion of a unequivocal fight between "Good vs Evil" but the fact remains that what they call "Ukraine" is nothing but a self-serving figment of their own imagination.

So your feelings were hurt when I called you on your lie about Ukraine being evenly divided between pro western Ukrainians and the minority that have collaborated with the Russian war criminals who presently occupy about 20% of Ukraine. If it bothers you to be recognized as a liar, stop lying.

Ukraine is recognized by the whole world as a sovereign state and a functioning democracy, and the fact that it has had some hotly contested elections does not mean it is not a democracy- just the opposite, only in a democracy can election be hotly contested and yet be accepted by all. In an Orwellian nightmare like Russia, anyone who opposed the government would be either dead or in prison, but not so in Ukraine.

If you had to define what makes a government good or evil, judging from its actions, you would have call Russia evil, that is, unless you are lying again.

If you had to define what makes a government civilized or uncivilized, again, you would have to define Russia as uncivilized.

It's no wonder the Ukrainians are fighting so hard to get these evil, uncivilized Russians out of their land.