Is healthcare a right? why or why not?

[Listening]

Still no case for calling it a right as near as I can tell.

Some think it "should" be a right.....does not make it one.

Never has been up to this point.

 

[Marshall]

It's not a right. It's an obligation.

Since you quote the preeminent Idolater and intellectual fool, your opinion, though wrong is expected.

 

[logical4u]

There is a difference between "can" and "will".
I am not saying they are ignorant because of what they think the government will or will not do.
I am using ignorant in it's definitive sense. They have no knowledge of government run health care so they believe all the bs fed to them.
But even then, there is a case that with our inept and corrupt government, we do occasionally get things right. How many people do you know on MediCare who refuse it so they can go pay for private insurance? When i was in the navy, I didn't know a single officer who paid for private insurance in favor of what we got for free - government run health care.
And I'm not talking about the money currently used in Medicare, welfare etc...

You think our politicians are corrupt? We give billions upon billions to the corrupt politicians of other countries every year. If we just stopped giving the taxpayer's money to them, we could provide millions of dollars of free health care every day and still be ahead.
Other areas of waste? You don't think maybe we spend a little too much on defense? Okay.

It's not that we don't have the revenues, it's that Bush and Obama have failed so miserably at handling our finances and everyone since Reagan has done such a poor job of prioritizing their use.

And you, that is "you" are talking about that same gov't suddenly becoming less corrupt and in every way efficient enough to handle healthcare. And in your fairytale world, the gov't will not use the massive database of individual medical costs and records to systematically start denying medical care to the more expensive, less productive 'citizens' (basically the "super race" only, it will be called the "healthy" or the "future")? In your fairytale world, politicians will not access political enemies or their families health records to blackmail those people in exchange for "health care"? Because after all, the gov't has proven time and time again that it can run business with less bureaucrats, less waste, and more efficiency than and "for profit" business. Your unicorns broke out of the fence, again; you need to go catch them.

You make me laugh to the point that my lovely bride is asking what is so funny.
The only American government official who has ever denied critical healthcare to those needing it is a Conservative Republican. No surprise.
In the meantime, I love your 'fairytale world". Dark evil villains creating an aryan race or whatever. You realize that government health care is provided in virtually every industrialized nation in the world right? Which of them have created these super races you refer to?
But again, I get it. You have zero direct knowledge to draw from so you go to your little Glenn Beck Book of Responses. It IS funny to read.

Which party does the current President belong to? Since you want to declare all Republicans villans (and believe me there are villians on both sides of the aisle). The CURRENT President is cutting Medicare and Medicaid (translation: denying health care costs for the elderly). But don't let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Here are some questions:
Do you think the insurance companies are going to operate at a loss?
Do you think that nurses and doctors will work for reduced wages as payments to medical facilities are cut?
Do you think medical facilities will invest in new, more advanced equipment if there will be no or few funds to pay for it?
Do you think the gov't improves efficiency of any system they operate?
That leaves us with two choices (or a combination of both)
The medical service will deteriorate
The medical costs will increase

Now go chase your unicorns because in your world, none of that is possible.

 

[Listening]

Still not a right !

 

[Dmitry Chernovsky]

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[dblack]

Still not a right !

Still worth discussing to0. A free society depends on a common understanding of the concept of rights.

 

[Camp]

Still not a right !

Correct, but it is in the process of becoming a quasi one. That is why the failure of Congress to repeal the ACA and trump's failure to repeal or replace was so important and game changing. It has become an entitlement that Americans have accepted and support. Is Social Security a right? It may not be a right, but there is little chance of it disappearing. The same thing is happening to healthcare.

 

[dblack]

Still not a right !

Correct, but it is in the process of becoming a quasi one. That is why the failure of Congress to repeal the ACA and trump's failure to repeal or replace was so important and game changing. It has become an entitlement that Americans have accepted and support. Is Social Security a right? It may not be a right, but there is little chance of it disappearing. The same thing is happening to healthcare.

But the "quasi" is the problem. Or rather the lack of understanding regarding what rights are, and why they are important. I think most people today define a "right" as "something everyone should have" and don't perceive the fundamental difference between a service like health care and things like freedom of speech or freedom of association.

 

[manifold]

Still not a right !

Correct, but it is in the process of becoming a quasi one. That is why the failure of Congress to repeal the ACA and trump's failure to repeal or replace was so important and game changing. It has become an entitlement that Americans have accepted and support. Is Social Security a right? It may not be a right, but there is little chance of it disappearing. The same thing is happening to healthcare.

But the "quasi" is the problem. Or rather the lack of understanding regarding what rights are, and why they are important. I think most people today define a "right" as "something everyone should have" and don't perceive the fundamental difference between a service like health care and things like freedom of speech or freedom of association.

What about a service like that provided by police and firefighters? Is that a right?

 

[task0778]

Still not a right !

Correct, but it is in the process of becoming a quasi one. That is why the failure of Congress to repeal the ACA and trump's failure to repeal or replace was so important and game changing. It has become an entitlement that Americans have accepted and support. Is Social Security a right? It may not be a right, but there is little chance of it disappearing. The same thing is happening to healthcare.

But the "quasi" is the problem. Or rather the lack of understanding regarding what rights are, and why they are important. I think most people today define a "right" as "something everyone should have" and don't perceive the fundamental difference between a service like health care and things like freedom of speech or freedom of association.

What about a service like that provided by police and firefighters? Is that a right?

Not in my view; a Right is inherent, a choice a person makes to speak, worship, assemble, etc., without needing permission from anyone else. You don't pay for it like you with a service like the police and firemen.

 

[Camp]

Still not a right !

Correct, but it is in the process of becoming a quasi one. That is why the failure of Congress to repeal the ACA and trump's failure to repeal or replace was so important and game changing. It has become an entitlement that Americans have accepted and support. Is Social Security a right? It may not be a right, but there is little chance of it disappearing. The same thing is happening to healthcare.

But the "quasi" is the problem. Or rather the lack of understanding regarding what rights are, and why they are important. I think most people today define a "right" as "something everyone should have" and don't perceive the fundamental difference between a service like health care and things like freedom of speech or freedom of association.

What about a service like that provided by police and firefighters? Is that a right?

Not in my view; a Right is inherent, a choice a person makes to speak, worship, assemble, etc., without needing permission from anyone else. You don't pay for it like you with a service like the police and firemen.

Once a service becomes guaranteed by law it becomes the same as a "right". Law, since the Reagan era, has guaranteed that emergency life stabilizing health care is provided when a person goes to a hospital emergency room. Just like when other services are denied, those denying the service face strict and stringent criminal and civil charges for denying such services.

 

[manifold]

Still not a right !

Correct, but it is in the process of becoming a quasi one. That is why the failure of Congress to repeal the ACA and trump's failure to repeal or replace was so important and game changing. It has become an entitlement that Americans have accepted and support. Is Social Security a right? It may not be a right, but there is little chance of it disappearing. The same thing is happening to healthcare.

But the "quasi" is the problem. Or rather the lack of understanding regarding what rights are, and why they are important. I think most people today define a "right" as "something everyone should have" and don't perceive the fundamental difference between a service like health care and things like freedom of speech or freedom of association.

What about a service like that provided by police and firefighters? Is that a right?

Not in my view; a Right is inherent, a choice a person makes to speak, worship, assemble, etc., without needing permission from anyone else. You don't pay for it like you with a service like the police and firemen.

By that definition, would smoking crack not also be a right?

 

[task0778]

Still not a right !

Correct, but it is in the process of becoming a quasi one. That is why the failure of Congress to repeal the ACA and trump's failure to repeal or replace was so important and game changing. It has become an entitlement that Americans have accepted and support. Is Social Security a right? It may not be a right, but there is little chance of it disappearing. The same thing is happening to healthcare.

But the "quasi" is the problem. Or rather the lack of understanding regarding what rights are, and why they are important. I think most people today define a "right" as "something everyone should have" and don't perceive the fundamental difference between a service like health care and things like freedom of speech or freedom of association.

What about a service like that provided by police and firefighters? Is that a right?

Not in my view; a Right is inherent, a choice a person makes to speak, worship, assemble, etc., without needing permission from anyone else. You don't pay for it like you with a service like the police and firemen.

Once a service becomes guaranteed by law it becomes the same as a "right". Law, since the Reagan era, has guaranteed that emergency life stabilizing health care is provided when a person goes to a hospital emergency room. Just like when other services are denied, those denying the service face strict and stringent criminal and civil charges for denying such services.

There may not be much that distinguishes one from the other, but they ain't the same thing. The police and fireguys are paid from your taxes, but nobody has to pay for you to say or write what you want to.

 

[task0778]

Still not a right !

Correct, but it is in the process of becoming a quasi one. That is why the failure of Congress to repeal the ACA and trump's failure to repeal or replace was so important and game changing. It has become an entitlement that Americans have accepted and support. Is Social Security a right? It may not be a right, but there is little chance of it disappearing. The same thing is happening to healthcare.

But the "quasi" is the problem. Or rather the lack of understanding regarding what rights are, and why they are important. I think most people today define a "right" as "something everyone should have" and don't perceive the fundamental difference between a service like health care and things like freedom of speech or freedom of association.

What about a service like that provided by police and firefighters? Is that a right?

Not in my view; a Right is inherent, a choice a person makes to speak, worship, assemble, etc., without needing permission from anyone else. You don't pay for it like you with a service like the police and firemen.

By that definition, would smoking crack not also be a right?

If it's not against the law. Maybe I should have added that caveat, your rights stop when they conflict with someone else's or when the public good is infringed upon. IOW, you don't get to break the law.

 

[Flopper]

Why do I ask? To me it seems to be the most fundamental part of why some advocate for universal health care and why some advocate for privatized healthcare. Every candidate on the dem ticket has a plan of some type for of universal or government run healthcare. So I have to think that most of them think it is a right. By extension then people basically have the right to good health it would seem.

The problem I have with it being a right is the concept of a 'right' itself. A 'right' like the right to free speech or right to bear arms is something that is provided you without any cost or requirment to obtain access to. You don't have to earn the right to free speech or pay a fee when you want to speak. The conundrum I have with healthcare is if it is your right, that is you are under no personal responsibility to provide it for yourself, then who's responsibility is it, and why? If I'm not paying for the services somone else must be. According to Hillary anyway that will be increased taxes on the rich. But wait healthcare is a right, so why should the rich be expected to pay for it? It's a right so isn't it suppossed to be free to them as well? Why should they be worried about their own health as well as those that can't pay for it?

Rush had a caller on today who was a female physician and basically asked the same question. Why is she, a provider of a service like any other service, expected to provide it a reduced rate or free all together? You can't control all aspects of your health anymore than you can control all aspects of your car working, but we expect people to pay to have their own car fixed even if not responsible for the problem, yet some have this expectation that when 'shit happens' where your health is concerned it's suppossed to be free to get 'fixed'.

No, it is not a right, at this time. Someday it will be recognized as a right but America is not ready for it.

We put a higher value on human life than ever before. We are more likely to ask why a person had to die if it could be prevented. You need only look at the news for confirmation. A fire killing a family was local news 50 years ago. Today's it's national news. A single solder killed in a raid will be headlines and likely to invoke national controversy. 75 years ago a battle in WWII costing thousands of American lives was headline news for a day or so. The flu epidemic of 1918 killed a 680,000 Americans and the major news coverage was in the obituaries.

A hundred years ago deaths from the most common diseases were not considered preventable. It was just the will of God. Today nearly 50% of the 5 leading causes of death in US are considered preventable if the person get's the right kind of healthcare at right time. It is only natural that people today should consider that they should have a right to healthcare that will save their lives regardless of their ability to pay.

In order for healthcare to be treated as a right in the US, the politician divide that separates us now will have to change and it will with time.

 

[manifold]

If it's not against the law. Maybe I should have added that caveat, your rights stop when they conflict with someone else's or when the public good is infringed upon. IOW, you don't get to break the law.

That seems a bit arbitrary to me. So you're saying that any of the rights you've enumerated could easily be taken away simply by outlawing them.

And I guess you're correct, rights are precisely what the law says they are. So if the law declares healthcare to be a right, it's a right.

 

[task0778]

If it's not against the law. Maybe I should have added that caveat, your rights stop when they conflict with someone else's or when the public good is infringed upon. IOW, you don't get to break the law.

That seems a bit arbitrary to me. So you're saying that any of the rights you've enumerated could easily be taken away simply by outlawing them.

And I guess you're correct, rights are precisely what the law says they are. So if the law declares healthcare to be a right, it's a right.

I don't think rights can be taken away, that is one of the hallmarks of a right that distinguishes it from a service or privilege or anything else. However, they can be mitigated or limited somewhat in the best interests of society. And gov't cannot declare healthcare or anything else to be a right for the simple reason that laws can be repealed but rights can't.

 

[Flopper]

Still not a right !

Correct, but it is in the process of becoming a quasi one. That is why the failure of Congress to repeal the ACA and trump's failure to repeal or replace was so important and game changing. It has become an entitlement that Americans have accepted and support. Is Social Security a right? It may not be a right, but there is little chance of it disappearing. The same thing is happening to healthcare.

But the "quasi" is the problem. Or rather the lack of understanding regarding what rights are, and why they are important. I think most people today define a "right" as "something everyone should have" and don't perceive the fundamental difference between a service like health care and things like freedom of speech or freedom of association.

What about a service like that provided by police and firefighters? Is that a right?

Not in my view; a Right is inherent, a choice a person makes to speak, worship, assemble, etc., without needing permission from anyone else. You don't pay for it like you with a service like the police and firemen.

There are different kinds of rights, human rights, sociologically rights, and legal rights. Any discussion of rights requires a definition otherwise the discussion is pointless.

 

[Camp]

If it's not against the law. Maybe I should have added that caveat, your rights stop when they conflict with someone else's or when the public good is infringed upon. IOW, you don't get to break the law.

That seems a bit arbitrary to me. So you're saying that any of the rights you've enumerated could easily be taken away simply by outlawing them.

And I guess you're correct, rights are precisely what the law says they are. So if the law declares healthcare to be a right, it's a right.

I don't think rights can be taken away, that is one of the hallmarks of a right that distinguishes it from a service or privilege or anything else. However, they can be mitigated or limited somewhat in the best interests of society. And gov't cannot declare healthcare or anything else to be a right for the simple reason that laws can be repealed but rights can't.

Rights are totally dependent on laws. The Constitution can be amended and that includes striking right granting amendments. Other rights are dependent on interpretations of the Constitution. An example is the right for a woman to choose and abortion. That can be changed and so can something as solid as the 1st, 2nd, etc. amendments.

 

[task0778]

If it's not against the law. Maybe I should have added that caveat, your rights stop when they conflict with someone else's or when the public good is infringed upon. IOW, you don't get to break the law.

That seems a bit arbitrary to me. So you're saying that any of the rights you've enumerated could easily be taken away simply by outlawing them.
That is not what I said at all, our rights cannot be taken away; That is the entire purpose of the Bill of Rights, to enumerate those rights that the gov't may not take away from us.
And I guess you're correct, rights are precisely what the law says they are. So if the law declares healthcare to be a right, it's a right.
No. Rights do not come from the gov't, they are inalienable. IOW, they are our birthright and not bestowed upon us or taken away either. Gov't does not have that legitimate power to do either action, and if they tried to do so it would be an illegal act by virtue of the 9th Amendment.

The framers wanted to make sure everyone understood that the Constitution only grants the feds prescribed, specific, enumerated powers. The Ninth Amendment infers the corollary to this truth. The federal government may not exercise any powers not granted. And it makes clear that the few rights specifically highlighted in the Bill of Rights do not count as an all-inclusive list. The federal government cannot exercise ANY powers other than those granted. And that includes taking away any of our rights. And BTW neither can state or local gov'ts.