Is homosexuality a choice, a mental illness or something simply inherent?

[GISMYS]

PRO-HOMOSEXUAL VIDEO TARGETS PUBLIC SCHOOLS
by Ed Vitagliano | AFA Journal
The battle in this country between those holding to traditional morality and those espousing hedonism has reached a fever pitch, manifested in no clearer terms that the ideological conflict over homosexuality. But forget about same-sex marriage, employment discrimination or AIDS funding. There may be no area of debate that causes blood pressures to escalate more rapidly than the question of whether public schools should teach children about homosexuality.

Now the homosexual community has thrown down the gauntlet by unveiling a video entitled It’s Elementary: Talking About Gay Issues In School, and as its title implies, the video is aimed at the educational establishment.

The video is produced by Helen Cohen and Debra Chasnoff, the latter an Academy Award-winning documentary producer. In 1992 Chasnoff became the first woman to openly declare her lesbianism at the Oscars.

The producers went into six elementary and middle schools where teachers and principals are already force-feeding children with pro-gay grist. The narrator says the educators allowed the filming “in the hope of inspiring other educators and parents to take the next step in their own school communities to teach children respect for all.”
THE HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA IN OUR PUBLIC SCHOOLS — GOD IS ANGRY!

 

[Asclepias]

Start Here>

http://www.usmessageboard.com/members/greenbean.html?tab=quotes&perpage=20&page=257#quotes


Therapist Calls Homosexuality "Mental Illness"

"Most homosexuals don't want to be homosexual, anymore than a schizophrenic wants to hear voices. A highly respected colleague quietly told me that he cures 80% of the homosexuals that come to him."

Higher Risk of Mental Health Problems for Homosexuals

I grow weary of providing information for the incompetent , who are simply incapable of comprehending what they are provided with. - YOu can lead a horse to water - but you can't make it drink. If you're gonna drionk the water that's fine - otherwise STFU

Dont get emotional about it. i just asked for some proof to your claim that you have contradicted yourself on. Proof means its a fact. I know many homosexuals that are perfectly content with being gay which invalidates your 1 off statement up above. Your links are more opinion pieces. Please link to a credible scientific site that shows being gay is a mental illness.

From your last link.

Homosexual people tend to experience more mental health problems than heterosexual people, research indicates. Discrimination may contribute to the higher risk, believes lead researcher Dr. Apu Chakraborty of University College London, UK.

I believe you are mistaken - The Opinion of Dr. Apu Chakraborty is a qualified scientific opinion . Now pardon me , lest I forget we are in the CDZ . Regards and have a Nice Day

Oh I'm not mistaken. You dont have anything that proves homosexuality is a mental illness. In fact I'm glad you posted it so you don't claim I attributed something to you that you didnt say. He has an opinion not a proven fact. There is a difference or were you unaware of that?

 

[kaz]

Start Here>

http://www.usmessageboard.com/members/greenbean.html?tab=quotes&perpage=20&page=257#quotes


Therapist Calls Homosexuality "Mental Illness"

"Most homosexuals don't want to be homosexual, anymore than a schizophrenic wants to hear voices. A highly respected colleague quietly told me that he cures 80% of the homosexuals that come to him."

Higher Risk of Mental Health Problems for Homosexuals

I grow weary of providing information for the incompetent , who are simply incapable of comprehending what they are provided with. - YOu can lead a horse to water - but you can't make it drink. If you're gonna drionk the water that's fine - otherwise STFU

Dont get emotional about it. i just asked for some proof to your claim that you have contradicted yourself on. Proof means its a fact. I know many homosexuals that are perfectly content with being gay which invalidates your 1 off statement up above. Your links are more opinion pieces. Please link to a credible scientific site that shows being gay is a mental illness.

From your last link.

Homosexual people tend to experience more mental health problems than heterosexual people, research indicates. Discrimination may contribute to the higher risk, believes lead researcher Dr. Apu Chakraborty of University College London, UK.

I believe you are mistaken - The Opinion of Dr. Apu Chakraborty is a qualified scientific opinion . Now pardon me , lest I forget we are in the CDZ . Regards and have a Nice Day

Gays not wanting to be gay is driven by societal reaction to it, not being gay. I know quite a few gays and the ones in an accepting community are perfectly happy. I've heard lots of people say they would never have picked being gay referring to things like their parents reaction or being picked on in school. I've never heard one say they wish they were not gay because the thought of being gay itself bothers them.

 

[GISMYS]

PRO-HOMOSEXUAL VIDEO TARGETS PUBLIC SCHOOLS
by Ed Vitagliano | AFA Journal
The battle in this country between those holding to traditional morality and those espousing hedonism has reached a fever pitch, manifested in no clearer terms that the ideological conflict over homosexuality. But forget about same-sex marriage, employment discrimination or AIDS funding. There may be no area of debate that causes blood pressures to escalate more rapidly than the question of whether public schools should teach children about homosexuality.

Now the homosexual community has thrown down the gauntlet by unveiling a video entitled It’s Elementary: Talking About Gay Issues In School, and as its title implies, the video is aimed at the educational establishment.

The video is produced by Helen Cohen and Debra Chasnoff, the latter an Academy Award-winning documentary producer. In 1992 Chasnoff became the first woman to openly declare her lesbianism at the Oscars.

The producers went into six elementary and middle schools where teachers and principals are already force-feeding children with pro-gay grist. The narrator says the educators allowed the filming “in the hope of inspiring other educators and parents to take the next step in their own school communities to teach children respect for all.”
THE HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA IN OUR PUBLIC SCHOOLS — GOD IS ANGRY!

Ellen Varella, principal of Peabody Elementary School in Cambridge, Mass., decided that her school would host a “photo-text exhibit” entitled, “Love Makes a Family: Living in Lesbian and Gay Families.” She said she anticipated no controversy, because the school community was a “very open and embracing and nurturing community.”

The decision did result in controversy, however, presumably among the closed-minded, non-nurturing types. When a friend warned her that she could lose her job over the exhibit, Varella was unfazed. “I felt strongly that the children in this community needed to be educated around this topic,” she said.

Perhaps one of the most shocking statements in It’s Elementary came from Thomas Price, principal of Cambridge Friends School in Cambridge, Mass. “I don’t think that it’s appropriate that values only be taught at home,” he said. “There are social values as well, there are community values.” And apparently those critical community values include this one: homosexuality is good.

Enlightened white knights of the public schools

The underlying belief of these social architects is that parents cannot be trusted to convey the truth about homosexuality to their children. The intervention of the public schools is necessary. At a faculty meeting at Cambridge Friends School, the teachers are discussing the results of their fourth annual Gay and Lesbian Pride Day. One teacher admits, “I think that we are asking kids to believe that (the homosexual lifestyle) is right....[W]e’re educating them, and this is part of what we consider to be a healthy education,” (emphasis added).

Some go beyond mere recommendation of advocacy. Take for example George Sloan, principal at Luther Burbank Middle School in San Francisco. Sloan said he believed that learning under a pro-homosexual curricula “should be mandatory” for all students.

At the Manhattan Country School in New York City, eighth grade English teacher Carol O’Donnell listens as one student complains that she is confused about the issue of homosexuality, because her family tells her its wrong.

Another student agrees that kids hear different things from different places. The solution? “chool needs to give us all the facts, so we can decide on our own what to think and what to do.” Some parents might be disturbed to know that their voice has been relegated to the status of being one among many. Yet it is the opinion promulgated in It’s Elementary that, when conflicting voices sow confusion, the public school system can intervene with the facts so the children can decide for themselves.

But are they given the facts? And are they really deciding for themselves?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Its definitely your genes or the way your genes are expressed. There are several studies out that claim this. I'm thinking expression makes the most sense because identical twins can have different sexual orientations. Still that invalidates it being a choice.

http://www.the-scientist.com/?artic...title/Can-Epigenetics-Explain-Homosexuality-/

How does it invalidate it being a choice, other than your confirmation bias?

Since I actually posted the article you just did, after I had read it all the way through, I know for a fact it doesn't address the issue of choice. I also know that it is very careful not to say that epigenetics is absolutely the cause of sexual preference. Using it to try and prove your point just proves you didn't read it.

How about your confirmation bias? You are ignoring a wealth of peer reviewed papers that say there IS a genetic link.

I do that because I actually research all the evidence, even if it contradicts my position. I deliberately chose to use papers that contradict my opinion just so you cannot accuse me on only using papers that support my beliefs, now you want to claim that the fact that I do so proves I am using conformation bias. Is this another example of you using terms you don't understand?

The thing is, unlike you, I don't actually know what causes people to have a certain sexual preference. My opinion may be wrong, but it is based on examining all the evidence, both for and against, and reaching a conclusion based on my understanding of it. Can you honestly say the same thing? Because you have categorically argued that I am wrong right here in this thread.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If you read my post all the way like you read the article you would see I didnt use it to prove any point. I suggested that there was an alternative theory. Its plain to see that its either genetics or epigenetics. You dont chose your inherent sexual orientation. However, you can later convince yourself to change it.

You said it is definitely your genes, or the way your genes are expressed. Their is not enough evidence to support that conclusion, which is why scientists say they don't know.

In other words, you are still wrong.

In other words you are wrong that it is a choice then.

No, because I never categorically claimed I was right. I am expressing an opinion based on my understanding of the evidence, and will change it if someone ever finds enough evidence to prove I am wrong because, ultimately, I don't know, and understand that I might be wrong.

You, on the other hand, know you are right, which is why you are wrong.

 

[kaz]

Dont get emotional about it. i just asked for some proof to your claim that you have contradicted yourself on. Proof means its a fact. I know many homosexuals that are perfectly content with being gay which invalidates your 1 off statement up above. Your links are more opinion pieces. Please link to a credible scientific site that shows being gay is a mental illness.

From your last link.

I believe you are mistaken - The Opinion of Dr. Apu Chakraborty is a qualified scientific opinion . Now pardon me , lest I forget we are in the CDZ . Regards and have a Nice Day

Oh I'm not mistaken. You dont have anything that proves homosexuality is a mental illness. In fact I'm glad you posted it so you don't claim I attributed something to you that you didnt say. He has an opinion not a proven fact. There is a difference or were you unaware of that?

I've been to a lot of conservative churches in my life. Most people in those churches actually aren't really concerned about the gay thing. Most of the people don't condemn gays, they just say it's going to be between God and the gay person when the time comes, it's not up to them to say. Then there are always a few vocal anti-gay, they tend to be people who are very judgmental about a lot of things and not a lot of fun in general. My view is they have more mental health issues than most of the gays I know.

I am not referring to you Greenbean, I don't know you. I am talking about in general.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I figured you did. You do realize that believing in a god/higher power/principles is conforming don't you?

And? I am sure you think you have a point, even if the rest of the universe is completely baffled as to what it is.

The point is there is no such thing as a non conformist religion. The very idea is is funny. I understand you mysteriously get baffled easily when your logic is exposed as being fraudulent.

Yet you posted nothing that even remotely looks like a demand for conformity.

 

[Asclepias]

You said it is definitely your genes, or the way your genes are expressed. Their is not enough evidence to support that conclusion, which is why scientists say they don't know.

In other words, you are still wrong.

In other words you are wrong that it is a choice then.

No, because I never categorically claimed I was right. I am expressing an opinion based on my understanding of the evidence, and will change it if someone ever finds enough evidence to prove I am wrong because, ultimately, I don't know, and understand that I might be wrong.

You, on the other hand, know you are right, which is why you are wrong.

The only thing I am right about is that it has to do with the genes in some form or another. Since I never claimed anything other than that I am not wrong.

Your opinion is wrong. Its not a choice. You are born with a sexual orientation. How you decide to act on that orientation is a choice like most things you have control of.

 

[Asclepias]

And? I am sure you think you have a point, even if the rest of the universe is completely baffled as to what it is.

The point is there is no such thing as a non conformist religion. The very idea is is funny. I understand you mysteriously get baffled easily when your logic is exposed as being fraudulent.

Yet you posted nothing that even remotely looks like a demand for conformity.

You must be pretending you didn't see my post with the principles.

Its ok. I know you will deny to the bitter end. Have fun.

 

[kaz]

When a friend warned her that she could lose her job over the exhibit, Varella was unfazed. “I felt strongly that the children in this community needed to be educated around this topic,” she said.

She should be fired, it's an inappropriate platform to use government schools to advance any political agenda. Government schools should teach English and math and leave politics at home.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

In other words you are wrong that it is a choice then.

No, because I never categorically claimed I was right. I am expressing an opinion based on my understanding of the evidence, and will change it if someone ever finds enough evidence to prove I am wrong because, ultimately, I don't know, and understand that I might be wrong.

You, on the other hand, know you are right, which is why you are wrong.

The only thing I am right about is that it has to do with the genes in some form or another. Since I never claimed anything other than that I am not wrong.

Your opinion is wrong. Its not a choice. You are born with a sexual orientation. How you decide to act on that orientation is a choice like most things you have control of.

Yet there is absolutely no evidecnce, othe r that a statsictal correlation among families, that itis in any way related to genes.

Doesn't sound like you care much about the evidence to me, you just formed an opinion, and ignore the fact that all the evidence out there that contradict it. That is close minded.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The point is there is no such thing as a non conformist religion. The very idea is is funny. I understand you mysteriously get baffled easily when your logic is exposed as being fraudulent.

Yet you posted nothing that even remotely looks like a demand for conformity.

You must be pretending you didn't see my post with the principles.

Its ok. I know you will deny to the bitter end. Have fun.

The principles? Seriously? Shich is the one that you think demands conformity?

 

[Asclepias]

No, because I never categorically claimed I was right. I am expressing an opinion based on my understanding of the evidence, and will change it if someone ever finds enough evidence to prove I am wrong because, ultimately, I don't know, and understand that I might be wrong.

You, on the other hand, know you are right, which is why you are wrong.

The only thing I am right about is that it has to do with the genes in some form or another. Since I never claimed anything other than that I am not wrong.

Your opinion is wrong. Its not a choice. You are born with a sexual orientation. How you decide to act on that orientation is a choice like most things you have control of.

Yet there is absolutely no evidecnce, othe r that a statsictal correlation among families, that itis in any way related to genes.

Doesn't sound like you care much about the evidence to me, you just formed an opinion, and ignore the fact that all the evidence out there that contradict it. That is close minded.

There is mountains of evidence. Your drive to procreate is the strongest urge going after the freeze, flight, or fight response. The fact this world is populated should tell you that. You honestly think choice has something to do with that?

 

[G.T.]

Yet you posted nothing that even remotely looks like a demand for conformity.

You must be pretending you didn't see my post with the principles.

Its ok. I know you will deny to the bitter end. Have fun.

The principles? Seriously? Shich is the one that you think demands conformity?

adjusting your lifestyle to the principles of a religion is conforming, is his point. by definition it's conforming.

 

[GreenBean]

I believe you are mistaken - The Opinion of Dr. Apu Chakraborty is a qualified scientific opinion . Now pardon me , lest I forget we are in the CDZ . Regards and have a Nice Day

Oh I'm not mistaken. You dont have anything that proves homosexuality is a mental illness. In fact I'm glad you posted it so you don't claim I attributed something to you that you didnt say. He has an opinion not a proven fact. There is a difference or were you unaware of that?

I've been to a lot of conservative churches in my life. Most people in those churches actually aren't really concerned about the gay thing. Most of the people don't condemn gays, they just say it's going to be between God and the gay person when the time comes, it's not up to them to say. Then there are always a few vocal anti-gay, they tend to be people who are very judgmental about a lot of things and not a lot of fun in general. My view is they have more mental health issues than most of the gays I know.

I am not referring to you Greenbean, I don't know you. I am talking about in general.

I would hope not - I'm not a Christian

 

[Asclepias]

You must be pretending you didn't see my post with the principles.

Its ok. I know you will deny to the bitter end. Have fun.

The principles? Seriously? Shich is the one that you think demands conformity?

adjusting your lifestyle to the principles of a religion is conforming, is his point. by definition it's conforming.

He will just pretend it means something else or deflect by asking some inane question.

 

[kaz]

Oh I'm not mistaken. You dont have anything that proves homosexuality is a mental illness. In fact I'm glad you posted it so you don't claim I attributed something to you that you didnt say. He has an opinion not a proven fact. There is a difference or were you unaware of that?

I've been to a lot of conservative churches in my life. Most people in those churches actually aren't really concerned about the gay thing. Most of the people don't condemn gays, they just say it's going to be between God and the gay person when the time comes, it's not up to them to say. Then there are always a few vocal anti-gay, they tend to be people who are very judgmental about a lot of things and not a lot of fun in general. My view is they have more mental health issues than most of the gays I know.

I am not referring to you Greenbean, I don't know you. I am talking about in general.

I would hope not - I'm not a Christian

Yes, exactly. I don't know you. Since it was commenting on a reply to you, I didn't want it inferred that it was a direct reference to you.

I also remember that we agree on a lot of other things in other discussions.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The only thing I am right about is that it has to do with the genes in some form or another. Since I never claimed anything other than that I am not wrong.

Your opinion is wrong. Its not a choice. You are born with a sexual orientation. How you decide to act on that orientation is a choice like most things you have control of.

Yet there is absolutely no evidecnce, othe r that a statsictal correlation among families, that itis in any way related to genes.

Doesn't sound like you care much about the evidence to me, you just formed an opinion, and ignore the fact that all the evidence out there that contradict it. That is close minded.

There is mountains of evidence. Your drive to procreate is the strongest urge going after the freeze, flight, or fight response. The fact this world is populated should tell you that. You honestly think choice has something to do with that?

If the drive to procreate is so strong, how do you explain homosexuality at all? The fact that people, and animals, actually engage in sex when procreation is impossible proves that you are wrong about this. That might lead you to consider he possibility that you are wrong about other things.

I doubt it, but it might.

 

[GreenBean]

Dont get emotional about it. i just asked for some proof to your claim that you have contradicted yourself on. Proof means its a fact. I know many homosexuals that are perfectly content with being gay which invalidates your 1 off statement up above. Your links are more opinion pieces. Please link to a credible scientific site that shows being gay is a mental illness.

From your last link.

I believe you are mistaken - The Opinion of Dr. Apu Chakraborty is a qualified scientific opinion . Now pardon me , lest I forget we are in the CDZ . Regards and have a Nice Day

Gays not wanting to be gay is driven by societal reaction to it, not being gay. I know quite a few gays and the ones in an accepting community are perfectly happy. I've heard lots of people say they would never have picked being gay referring to things like their parents reaction or being picked on in school. I've never heard one say they wish they were not gay because the thought of being gay itself bothers them.

You can't really get mad at low information gays such as many of the Gays and Useful Idiots who post here- all they know is whats preached to them by the Church of LGBT. And everything that is wrong with Gays is all becuse of Homophobes - yup - homophobes brought the AIDS over to get rid of em all , and hopmophobes didn't help to stop it's spread , and homophobes are the reason they kill themselves - it's all the homophobes fault - that and that nasty little religion of yours preaching all that silliness about Morality - Christians are nothing but a bunch of homophobes . And while we're at it those Damn Republicans - trying to defend family Values - bunch of friggin homophobes !!!!