Is Putin bluffing about using nukes? Should NATO call his bluff? (POLL)

[Donald H]

If NATO doesn't respond, then there is no NATO. And I'm not talking just supplying some weapons. I'm talking destroying that 40 mile long Russian military caravan with airpower and installing a no fly zone over Ukraine. Ukraine deserves better from the asshole countries who claim to love freedom.

That would be a violation of the rules that both sides have agreed upon in order to conduct a friendly war.

For now at least, back off to some possibility of the Ukraine destroying it. There's just no way Putin would have placed his army in such a vulnerable situation in which America could win the war quickly.

It would be virtually the same as America lining up it's heavy artillery in Iraq that would have made them sitting ducks for any large and powerful foe! Or, placing an aircraft carrier in a vulnerable position?

 

[wamose]

That would be a violation of the rules that both sides have agreed upon in order to conduct a friendly war.

For now at least, back off to some possibility of the Ukraine destroying it. There's just no way Putin would have placed his army in such a vulnerable situation in which America could win the war quickly.

It would be virtually the same as America lining up it's heavy artillery in Iraq that would have made them sitting ducks for any large and powerful foe! Or, placing an aircraft carrier in a vulnerable position?

Fuck rules. This Putin asshole is committing genocide. Surely exceptions to rules are permitted where genocide is concerned.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Fuck rules. This Putin asshole is committing genocide

Well, no.
If he were intent on genocide, the number of dead Ukranians would be in the 6-7 digits.

 

[Donald H]

Fuck rules. This Putin asshole is committing genocide. Surely exceptions to rules are permitted where genocide is concerned.

The precedence has already been set on 'genocide' in Iraq with the Gulf war in 1990.

I agree that it should stop and I argued for it being stopped back in 1990 too.

Did you miss my idea on how it can be stopped world wide?

It would be large and powerful nations accepting that each other need to be allowed safety and security from the others.

All in needs this time is acceptance of the notion that Russia doesn't want to take the rest of the world, and beat out America.

 

[Donald H]

Well, no.
If he were intent on genocide, the number of dead Ukranians would be in the 6-7 digits.

Well thought out comment for you Shooter. You're one of the first to acknowledge my position on it being a 'friendly' war in which friends have to play by the rules. I can work with you!

 

[imawhosure]

Here is the problem for Putin, and NATO----------------> Who will/would deploy nukes if their country's land mass was not under attack? That is the multi trillion dollar question. I am certain the West would not because of its Democratic ties, but would Pooty?

An easier way to ask this question is------------------> you are walking along, and see a 100 dollar bill on the ground. At the same time you see it, a person walking towards you sees it also. You both dive for it, are fighting over it, and he says if you don't let go, he is going to kick your a**. What is your decision? To fight, or let him have it?

Now change the scenario to just you walking along, you see it, and pick it up putting it in your wallet or purse. A month later, someone comes up to you and tries to steal your wallet or purse, and the only thing in it is that 100 dollar bill. Are you now going to resist harder since it has been in your possession for a month, and you consider that note yours now?

The point is simple in a round about way------------> many of those sovereign places over there, used to be in the Soviet Union, including Poland. Pooty was raised NOT in Russia itself, but the Soviet Union as a whole. He has stated publicly on many occasions that his goal was to reconstitute the Soviet Union. The breakup of that former country, was a disaster in his eyes, and should have never happened. So if you take him at his word, and that is up to you............in his minds eye, he is fighting........not against Ukraine, but taking back what was already his.

So will he use nukes? Well, let me ask you this------------->someone takes Hawaii from us and 20 or 30 years later we go to take it back, would you! How about if it was Alaska? New York anyone?

So the way to stop this madness is through financial means, and it is up to the world, in particular our government, to deny him the finances to wage war by flooding the zone with our oil. When Pooty leaves the world stage through death, or through him being removed from office, a younger person will see things differently. They will not be so tied to the old empire, or so we hope. It really is on the government of the USA, because we alone have the means to turn his very rich gas station into a nickel and dime store.

If you don't agree, then if his professed intentions of reconstituting the Soviet Union continues and we are faced with nuclear war to stop it or are forced to decide instead to turn our backs on NATO, remember that when you look into the mirror! Sometimes my Democratic green friends, you have to re-evaluate your positions to avoid disaster, even if the disaster was not of your making.

 

[M14 Shooter]

The precedence has already been set on 'genocide' in Iraq with the Gulf war in 1990.

This is where I ask you to demonstrable your claim to be true, and you respond by tucking your tail and running away.
As always.
There was no genocide in Iraq - 1990, 1991, or 2003+

Did you miss my idea on how it can be stopped world wide?

No. But since you're an armchair general, I could only laugh at them.

 

[Donald H]

This is where I ask you to demonstrable your claim to be true, and you respond by tucking your tail and running away.
As always.
There was no genocide in Iraq - 1990, 1991, or 2003+

No. But since you're an armchair general, I could only laugh at them.

And no *genocide in Vietnam either!

*genocide only possible on pure white people.

You're a circus clown.

 

[kyzr]

We do not have to make that decision yet, but we might have to soon after he takes Ukraine. If Pooty believes his threat of nuclear war prevented action against him in Ukraine, he may try to expand again in the very near future.

His premise for this was---------->he would not allow a NATO country to be installed on the Russian border, just as we didn't want CUBA with missiles on our border. Take it for what it is worth, but that is the debate point from experts who semi agree with him or not.

But then, here comes the logic problem------------> If that is his reasoning, if Russia gobbles up Ukraine which then becomes a Russian satellite, Ukraine has NATO members on their borders. So now, he has the same cover for reasoning to do it again?

It is incumbent upon our government, to drill baby drill and bring oil to bear bringing down the cost, so his gas station in Europe is no where near as profitable so as he can not fund expansionist ideas. If our politicians do not do it, I fear we will back here in a year or 18 months, with you posing the same question to us about another country, possibly one of our NATO allies!

Agree with your post, and that Putin's logic about NATO on his border is too late. There are several NATO borders already there, Poland, the Baltic states, etc.

Not only that but Sweden and Finland are considering applying for NATO membership.

Neutral Finland, Sweden warm to idea of NATO membership

Through the Cold War and the decades since, nothing could persuade Finns and Swedes that they would be better off joining NATO — until now.

www.detroitnews.com

 

[kyzr]

No, Putin is not bluffing. And the US isn't bluffing that it will respond in kind.

Yes, Putin can do practically anything he wants, just as the US did anything it wanted with it's many wars since the end of WW2.
There aren't enough civilians in the Ukraine to come close to equalling US carnage in those many different countries.

We didn't talk about the carnage when the US was waging war and dropping bombs, that killed millions, but we should be concerned and talking about it now.

Was there a solution that could have prevented this war, that could have been mutually acceptable to both America and Russia?

The simplest solution was putting sanctions on Russia when they massed troops on the Uke border to show them its a very bad and painful idea.
After the invasion was launched its too late. Now they need to be cranked up to the max to have any effect in the short term.

 

[kyzr]

Just a question, a little off topic--------------> While hindsight is much easier than making the decisions in real time; do we now all agree that General Patton was 100% correct at the end of WWII?

No. The US army vs the Russian army in 1945 was not a good idea. We'd be in the same spot as now. Russians aren't good at democracy or government.

 

[imawhosure]

Agree with your post, and that Putin's logic about NATO on his border is too late. There are several NATO borders already there, Poland, the Baltic states, etc.

Not only that but Sweden and Finland are applying for NATO membership.

Neutral Finland, Sweden warm to idea of NATO membership

Through the Cold War and the decades since, nothing could persuade Finns and Swedes that they would be better off joining NATO — until now.

www.detroitnews.com

Kyzr, I expect that Pooty will soon threaten, any country that used to be in the Soviet sphere of influence, that does NOT have a nuclear weapon. How many that is, I do not honestly know.

His goal is to reconstitute as much of the old Soviet Union as possible, and he knows that no country in the West will fire off a nuke unless it is their country under attack. That is Democratic principles, like them, love them, or not.

 

[M14 Shooter]

And no *genocide in Vietnam either!
*genocide only possible on pure white people.
You're a circus clown.

And you deliberately misrepresent the facts, including the defitnions of words, to suit your bigotry.
You -know- you cannot demonstrate your claims of US genocide to be true, and you don't care.
Now, tuck tail and run away, as you always do.

 

[Donald H]

The simplest solution was putting sanctions on Russia when they massed troops on the Uke border to show them its a very bad and painful idea.
After the invasion was launched its too late. Now they need to be cranked up to the max to have any effect in the short term.

Seriously??
You're suggesting that sanctions weren't put on Russia by America for many years, that were egregious enough that Russia could have considered it an act of war??
Seriously?

They're being 'cranked' to the max already but the world offers alternatives to succumbing to US power.

 

[imawhosure]

No. The US army vs the Russian army in 1945 was not a good idea. We'd be in the same spot as now. Russians aren't good at democracy or government.

Again, off topic, but in 1945, Russia didn't have a nuclear weapon. We could have reclaimed all of Europe using the same threat that Russia is using today in reverse, as long as we let them keep their country, which is more than they are allowing the Ukraine to do, I might add. Germany would have been a free country, in 1946............although with all the Nazis still on the loose, it might not have been the best idea, lol.

 

[kyzr]

Kyzr, I expect that Pooty will soon threaten, any country that used to be in the Soviet sphere of influence, that does NOT have a nuclear weapon. How many that is, I do not honestly know.

His goal is to reconstitute as much of the old Soviet Union as possible, and he knows that no country in the West will fire off a nuke unless it is their country under attack. That is Democratic principles, like them, love them, or not.

Putin had better not set foot on ANY NATO country, "An attack on one, is an attack on all".

 

[imawhosure]

Putin had better not set foot on ANY NATO country, "An attack on one, is an attack on all".

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That is why we do not want to have to make that decision. Open up the oil spigots America, and deny Russia the financial ability to wage war. Turn his rich gas station into a nickel and dime store.

 

[kyzr]

Seriously??
You're suggesting that sanctions weren't put on Russia by America for many years, that were egregious enough that Russia could have considered it an act of war??
Seriously?

They're being 'cranked' to the max already but the world offers alternatives to succumbing to US power.

1. I'm saying that the NATO sanctions were put on too late. Getting kicked out of SWIFT, having the Ruble collapse, having their companies go bankrupt, having the oligarchs wealth and yachts confiscated, would have been more useful before the invasion.
2. So what if Russia considers sanctions an act of war? They are no match for NATO and Pooty knows it.
3. Yes Russia is running to China for help. I'm not sure even China can keep Russia afloat, especially when China sees how devastating serious sanctions can be.

 

[kyzr]

That is why we do not want to have to make that decision. Open up the oil spigots America, and deny Russia the financial ability to wage war. Turn his rich gas station into a nickel and dime store.

Yep, now all we need is for Biden and the democrats to agree. Nancy Pelosi is on-board.

 

[Stormy Daniels]

The Ukraine is Putin's ongoing war crime, and NATO is really doing nothing to slow his plodding military down.

There were items discussed, such as a NATO "no fly" zone over Ukraine.
Stoltenberg just said "NO", since that would start a war between NATO and Russia.

US generals suggested sending Ukraine some of our obsolete A-10 "Warthog" tank killers. They would make short work of Putin's tank columns.

Yesterday the Russian military fired into a Ukrainian nuclear powerplant. These idiots are playing "Russian Roulette" with a global disaster. Day after day more death and destruction.

Will there be a tipping point when NATO countries see so much death and destruction, such as public executions "Taliban Style" that NATO says, FU Vlad, we're kicking your ass out of Ukraine, and if you want to escalate to nuclear slap leather?

So the poll question basically says will Putin's war crimes ever be worth risking a nuclear war?? He's betting no.

Either we stop Putin sooner, or we stop Putin later. The difference will be measured in pints of blood.