Is the intention a Civil War ?

[Uncensored2008]

More republican porn.

Okay, I understand that they gave you a treat each time you repeated the phrase of the day, during your programming at ThinkProgress this morning. However, there is no indication that the military would support a move by this administration against the people.

Obama vowed to create his own army, loyal directly to him;

{"We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded." (emphasis added)}

Archived-Articles: Obama's Civilian National Security Force

But he failed. Unlike his mentor, Hugo Chavez, Obama did not raise this "security force" to rival the army. So this means that if he succeeds in flaming the violence into full blown battles, he will have only the federal LEO agencies and the now federalized local law enforcement to move against the people.

Dorner successfully fought 15,000 cops for 6 days, inflicting a 7 to 1 casualty ratio.

 

[candycorn]

I was just providing analysis. I didn't state a position. I don't think secession would happen today. I can't see clear lines like there were in the 1860s. It would be pointless for a hadgepodge to secede. If you had something contiguous, maybe. AL, MS, LA, TX & OK maybe? Would northeastern liberals support the body count of an aggressive war against peaceful secessionists? Hmmm. Would the military fire on them? what about the ones from those states? would they stay in the US military or go with their state?

But, I can't see it happening. I think if anything would happen it would be country wide anarchy or revolt. Hotter in some areas than others, but all over.

For me, the question isn't whether Vermont would accept the secession of Georgia. Would the citizens of Atlanta accept it? The lines are no longer about states but about urban vs rural. Does Atlanta seceed from Georgia? Does Dallas seceed from Texas? Do we end up with two nations which share 1,000 seperate borders?

All of this is moot since there is not a single state which has even begun the discussion of considering the idea of secession.

Very good point.

The bluest states have deep red areas while the reddest states have blue areas.

Here in Texas, a very red state, the larger cities are blue.

At the end of the day though, outside of a few on the extreme left and right fringe, Americans are too fat and happy to consider risking their lives in some misguided civil war.

I would amend that to say "most" americans are too fat and happy.
I doubt you'll ever see a succession movement that involves more states than can be counted on one hand if any but I would not be shocked if a range-war broke out somewhere in West Texas one day. I'm predicting around the Fort Davis area. There is an Observatory out there we went to one night and there were preppers back in the late 1990's. I could only imagine the hysteria and the hysterical out there now.

 

[candycorn]

War is possible, I agree.

But in the forseeable future it is extremely unlikely.

The only ones with a taste for war are the militia types and the fundamentalist extremists like Katz. That's about 200 people. They couldn't take over a gas station.

What you of the anti-liberty left make the mistake of is thinking that military will support you.

You sit back and say; "Those damned Constitutionalists clinging to their guns and Bill of Rights are no match for the United State Army!" But that assumes the Army would support you.

I'm glad he's dead, but one thing Dorner did is prove the cops are no match for an armed citizenry.

1. The military will follow the commands of the legal government. I think the civil war demonstrated that.

2. I wish people who keep talking about the Constitution would take the time to actually read it.

3. Dorner wasn't impeded in the least by an armed citizenry. He was killed in a shootout with police.

Bravo!

 

[ArmyCowboy]

For me, the question isn't whether Vermont would accept the secession of Georgia. Would the citizens of Atlanta accept it? The lines are no longer about states but about urban vs rural. Does Atlanta seceed from Georgia? Does Dallas seceed from Texas? Do we end up with two nations which share 1,000 seperate borders?

All of this is moot since there is not a single state which has even begun the discussion of considering the idea of secession.

Very good point.

The bluest states have deep red areas while the reddest states have blue areas.

Here in Texas, a very red state, the larger cities are blue.

At the end of the day though, outside of a few on the extreme left and right fringe, Americans are too fat and happy to consider risking their lives in some misguided civil war.

I would amend that to say "most" americans are too fat and happy.
I doubt you'll ever see a succession movement that involves more states than can be counted on one hand if any but I would not be shocked if a range-war broke out somewhere in West Texas one day. I'm predicting around the Fort Davis area. There is an Observatory out there we went to one night and there were preppers back in the late 1990's. I could only imagine the hysteria and the hysterical out there now.

I won't argue with that, actually.

 

[ArmyCowboy]

More republican porn.

Okay, I understand that they gave you a treat each time you repeated the phrase of the day, during your programming at ThinkProgress this morning. However, there is no indication that the military would support a move by administration against the people.

Obama vowed to create his own army, loyal directly to him;

{"We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded." (emphasis added)}

Archived-Articles: Obama's Civilian National Security Force

But he failed. Unlike his mentor, Hugo Chavez, Obama did not raise this "security force" to rival the army. So this means that if he succeeds is flaming the violence into full blown battles, he will have only the federal LEO agencies and the now federalized local law enforcement to move against the people.

Dorner successfully fought 15,000 cops for 6 days, inflicting a 7 to 1 casualty ratio.

What the hell are you talking about?

You accuse me of repeating talking points and you spew this Obama army garbage?

And your figures about Dorner are so far off to be laughable.

 

[Uncensored2008]

1. The military will follow the commands of the legal government. I think the civil war demonstrated that.

The first civil war demonstrated just the opposite. Robert E. Lee ended up on the Confederate side specifically because he would NOT follow the illegal orders coming from D.C.

2. I wish people who keep talking about the Constitution would take the time to actually read it.

I wish those of you seeking to end the Constitution would take the time to read it.

3. Dorner wasn't impeded in the least by an armed citizenry. He was killed in a shootout with police.

And?

 

[Uncensored2008]

What the hell are you talking about?

Reality - you have no grasp of this.

You accuse me of repeating talking points and you spew this Obama army garbage?

That's a quote from Obama, dumbfuck. Clearly Obama feared that he would no have military support.

And your figures about Dorner are so far off to be laughable.

You're quite the ignorant fool.

ca·su·al·ties
Definition of CASUALTY
a person or thing injured, lost, or destroyed : victim <the ex-senator was a casualty of the last election>

 

[ArmyCowboy]

What the hell are you talking about?

Reality - you have no grasp of this.

You accuse me of repeating talking points and you spew this Obama army garbage?

That's a quote from Obama, dumbfuck. Clearly Obama feared that he would no have military support.

And your figures about Dorner are so far off to be laughable.

You're quite the ignorant fool.

ca·su·al·ties
Definition of CASUALTY
a person or thing injured, lost, or destroyed : victim <the ex-senator was a casualty of the last election>

When facts fail and empty talking points are defeated, resort to ad hominems.

Yeah, that's the way to project a mature, intelligent air and win the discussion.

Seriously, are you 12?

 

[Katzndogz]

War is possible, I agree.

But in the forseeable future it is extremely unlikely.

The only ones with a taste for war are the militia types and the fundamentalist extremists like Katz. That's about 200 people. They couldn't take over a gas station.

What you of the anti-liberty left make the mistake of is thinking that military will support you.

You sit back and say; "Those damned Constitutionalists clinging to their guns and Bill of Rights are no match for the United State Army!" But that assumes the Army would support you.

I'm glad he's dead, but one thing Dorner did is prove the cops are no match for an armed citizenry.

1. The military will follow the commands of the legal government. I think the civil war demonstrated that.

2. I wish people who keep talking about the Constitution would take the time to actually read it.

3. Dorner wasn't impeded in the least by an armed citizenry. He was killed in a shootout with police.

The southern military did not follow the commands of the Union army! If anything, the Civil War demonstrated that the military would absolutely divide. The southern soldiers did not remain loyal to the Union.

 

[ArmyCowboy]

What you of the anti-liberty left make the mistake of is thinking that military will support you.

You sit back and say; "Those damned Constitutionalists clinging to their guns and Bill of Rights are no match for the United State Army!" But that assumes the Army would support you.

I'm glad he's dead, but one thing Dorner did is prove the cops are no match for an armed citizenry.

1. The military will follow the commands of the legal government. I think the civil war demonstrated that.

2. I wish people who keep talking about the Constitution would take the time to actually read it.

3. Dorner wasn't impeded in the least by an armed citizenry. He was killed in a shootout with police.

The southern military did not follow the commands of the Union army! If anything, the Civil War demonstrated that the military would absolutely divide. The southern soldiers did not remain loyal to the Union.

Its not 1865 anymore.

Officers and senior enlisted owe their allegiance not to states, I'm afarid to tell you.

 

[candycorn]

1. The military will follow the commands of the legal government. I think the civil war demonstrated that.

2. I wish people who keep talking about the Constitution would take the time to actually read it.

3. Dorner wasn't impeded in the least by an armed citizenry. He was killed in a shootout with police.

The southern military did not follow the commands of the Union army! If anything, the Civil War demonstrated that the military would absolutely divide. The southern soldiers did not remain loyal to the Union.

Its not 1865 anymore.

Officers and senior enlisted owe their allegiance not to states, I'm afarid to tell you.

So when the rebs attacked Fort Sumpter, they were firing on other rebels? Who knew?

 

[ArmyCowboy]

The southern military did not follow the commands of the Union army! If anything, the Civil War demonstrated that the military would absolutely divide. The southern soldiers did not remain loyal to the Union.

Its not 1865 anymore.

Officers and senior enlisted owe their allegiance not to states, I'm afarid to tell you.

So when the rebs attacked Fort Sumpter, they were firing on other rebels? Who knew?

Um, what are you talking about?

 

[Uncensored2008]

When facts fail and empty talking points are defeated, resort to ad hominems.

Don't be a retard, it's unbecoming.

The fact is, that your little tin god did, as a matter of irrefutable fact, call for a civilian army loyal to him that was as powerful as the military. Didn't work out, but the call cannot be denied.

Yeah, that's the way to project a mature, intelligent air and win the discussion.

Seriously, are you 12?

Does this tactic ever work? I mean, when they give you the "how to defeat the Constitutionalists" training on the hate sites, do they claim this approach is successful?

 

[ArmyCowboy]

When facts fail and empty talking points are defeated, resort to ad hominems.

Don't be a retard, it's unbecoming.

The fact is, that your little tin god did, as a matter of irrefutable fact, call for a civilian army loyal to him that was as powerful as the military. Didn't work out, but the call cannot be denied.

Yeah, that's the way to project a mature, intelligent air and win the discussion.

Seriously, are you 12?

Does this tactic ever work? I mean, when they give you the "how to defeat the Constitutionalists" training on the hate sites, do they claim this approach is successful?

Judging by your posts, you wouldn't know the constitution if it smacked you upside the head.

As for the rest, I can't take any supposed adult seriously who resorts to calling people "retards." Sorry.

Try to grow up a little bit, mature, graduate high school, the whole nine, and maybe we can discuss these things in a few years.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Judging by your posts, you wouldn't know the constitution if it smacked you upside the head.

What a clever retort, for a leftist

As for the rest, I can't take any supposed adult seriously who resorts to calling people "retards." Sorry.

Try to grow up a little bit, mature, graduate high school, the whole nine, and maybe we can discuss these things in a few years.

Another leftist retard who thinks demeaning anyone who isn't loyal to his ruler is "winning."

You're dismissed.

 

[PratchettFan]

1. The military will follow the commands of the legal government. I think the civil war demonstrated that.

The first civil war demonstrated just the opposite. Robert E. Lee ended up on the Confederate side specifically because he would NOT follow the illegal orders coming from D.C.

2. I wish people who keep talking about the Constitution would take the time to actually read it.

I wish those of you seeking to end the Constitution would take the time to read it.

3. Dorner wasn't impeded in the least by an armed citizenry. He was killed in a shootout with police.

And?

Lee followed the government of the state he considered himself a citizen of. Both armies followed the orders of those above them.

I have read the Constitution, which is why I am fairly sure you have not.

And? You said we learned a lesson from Dorner. What lesson was that? That a well armed man up against the police is a dead man?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Lee followed the government of the state he considered himself a citizen of. Both armies followed the orders of those above them.

In fact that is false. Lee initially remained with the Union Army, as a West-Point graduate. Lincoln offered Lee command of the Union army, Lee viewing the use of military against succeeding states to be violation of the Constitution, refused the commission and joined the Confederacy.

I have read the Constitution, which is why I am fairly sure you have not.

I guarantee that I have far greater depth and knowledge of the document than you do.

And? You said we learned a lesson from Dorner. What lesson was that? That a well armed man up against the police is a dead man?

That the police are far from invincible. Dorner is dead, as are 4 others, with three additional wounded.

Dorner was a scumbag, so when you attempt to claim that I am supporting him, I'll point to this. BUT one man tied up 15,000 for most of a week. Don't pretend that eruptions of violence as the Obamunists seek to put down the Constitutionalists will be the cakewalk you fantasize about.

 

[PratchettFan]

What you of the anti-liberty left make the mistake of is thinking that military will support you.

You sit back and say; "Those damned Constitutionalists clinging to their guns and Bill of Rights are no match for the United State Army!" But that assumes the Army would support you.

I'm glad he's dead, but one thing Dorner did is prove the cops are no match for an armed citizenry.

1. The military will follow the commands of the legal government. I think the civil war demonstrated that.

2. I wish people who keep talking about the Constitution would take the time to actually read it.

3. Dorner wasn't impeded in the least by an armed citizenry. He was killed in a shootout with police.

The southern military did not follow the commands of the Union army! If anything, the Civil War demonstrated that the military would absolutely divide. The southern soldiers did not remain loyal to the Union.

The southern military followed the commands of the southern government. The military did not divide, the military followed.

 

[PratchettFan]

Lee followed the government of the state he considered himself a citizen of. Both armies followed the orders of those above them.

In fact that is false. Lee initially remained with the Union Army, as a West-Point graduate. Lincoln offered Lee command of the Union army, Lee viewing the use of military against succeeding states to be violation of the Constitution, refused the commission and joined the Confederacy.

I have read the Constitution, which is why I am fairly sure you have not.

I guarantee that I have far greater depth and knowledge of the document than you do.

And? You said we learned a lesson from Dorner. What lesson was that? That a well armed man up against the police is a dead man?

That the police are far from invincible. Dorner is dead, as are 4 others, with three additional wounded.

Dorner was a scumbag, so when you attempt to claim that I am supporting him, I'll point to this. BUT one man tied up 15,000 for most of a week. Don't pretend that eruptions of violence as the Obamunists seek to put down the Constitutionalists will be the cakewalk you fantasize about.

So I was wrong about Lee by being right. An interesting perspective.

I am sure you do guarantee. However, I think I will simply make my judgment based upon your lack of understanding shown in your posts rather than your guarantees.

You are the one who said we learned a lesson. Apparently the lesson is that if you break the law you will suffer the consequences. As to the rest, you certainly do have a rich imagination. Do you always think in bumper stickers?

 

[Uncensored2008]

The southern military followed the commands of the southern government. The military did not divide, the military followed.

So then, all West Point graduates were posted back to the states they came from?