Is There One Sound/valid Syllogistic Argument For The Existence Of God?

[sealybobo]

But it's way more fun to consider them one person, and also keeps things more organized and concise. All in all, it enhances my quality of life 0.000000001367%, which is closer to zero than one but still, it's NOT zero. I may even have a party in its honor!

If we don't respect and treat people as individuals,
how can we ask them not to lump us all together and dismiss us collectively?

We need to stop this business of labeling for convenience.

Especially if Boss is trying to distinguish God as Creator from God as Logic naturally existing.

How can we ask others to make a distinction that is more convenient for us,
when we refuse to distinguish them from something or someone else we are lumping together?

I told you a long time ago, Emily.

I don't take this as seriously as you do. This is a flippant internet conversation to pass time while I also handle my business. It cuts it up a bit. In real life, these conversations would never devolve like this such as they have, not in the circles of people that I keep around.

I lost respect for justin and md long ago, when I saw that their tactics of discussion were grimy.

I consider them vile, as humans. I don't want to respect them. And I'm even the re-conciliatory kind of guy, I give people chances because I'm pretty nice. For that reason, it's even MORE egregious when someone crosses my line of disrespect.

So, to bring the point home for you: I have zero reason or want or necessity to respect these vile creatures.

I respect you though. We disagree in terms of spiritualism, and can still get along like peanut butter and jelly. That's because we are nice people.

These gentlemen called you names, as well. And YOU DEFINITELY did not start that level of disrespect with them. Remember that, when they think they can talk past or down to you, and pretend that you need a babysitter telling you who and who not to trust and things like that. The blatant disrespect cannot be reeled in, their egos are to the moon, alice.

Dear me!

GT, no wonder they lash out and have no respect
if the sentiment is mutual.

I just know that where I treat people with respect,
they do the same, or try to.

how are we going to carve out any civility in the world
if we treat each other as trash?

It makes sense to me if we want to make the world a better place,
the only things we can change are the relations in our range.

If we don't even clean up the garbage there, where we can do something about it,
what hope is there for the rest of the world to clean up messes going on?

Just my understanding of think globally, act locally.
Whatever we do to correct error and restore good faith relations locally
you multiply that by 1000 and you get an exponential impact on the world.

You don't have to believe in the 100th monkey syndrome, or 6 degrees of separation.
Even young kids get the idea of the ripple effect, that if you do one nice thing to
make things better, then the positive love and energy passes forward.

here is a whole nonprofit group doing outreach based on that concept:
Rachel s Challenge
If just one student can have this much impact, think of what the rest of us can do!

Is the sentiment mutual when they lash out at YOU?

Think.


Pacifism has its wisdom, but in these situations and for me personally - it's naive.

If you could, ignore that I'll never respect them and treat my and your interactions independent from the rest of the bumble-jargain.

You are correct, god cannot be proven n'or dis-proven by humans. We begin on similar ground there. However you'd like to elaborate based upon that, I'm game/open minded.

I'm saying we can reach agreement
if we can get past our forgiveness/unforgiveness issues.

So to prove that, we'd have to show that by forgiving each others differences,
we can do more to resolve them.

So part of this process here is to demonstrate the difference:
if people don't forgive, they get stuck
if people do forgive, they can move forward and resolve more points.
the views/beliefs underneath don't really change,
but our perception of how our views connect and relate to each other (despite our differences)
does the more we forgive the conflicts.

Fine. I forgive you that you make women who don't want to have a child guilty.

I forgive you that you took Texas from having 30 abortion clinics all over the state to 6. Making it harder for poor people, not rich, to get abortions, even if they don't want or shouldn't have children.

I forgive you that your side murdered Dr. Tiller. Don't do it again, please.

I forgive you that you make it harder for poor women to get abortions and the lower the amount of foodstamps you give them so it isn't enough. Is that tough love? It certainly isn't smart. Maybe we should cover birth control pills for poor women? Maybe that would make sense. And pills aren't enough. We should get poor women IUD's. That takes the chances of having an accident or mistake from 50% to 2%.

So if you want to talk about how we can lower the number of teen pregnancies, which will lead to less abortions, we've been trying to have that conversation for years. Tell your side.

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear Boss and GT:

This message from Justin is arguing about different things.

Justin was first to confirm with me that he was okay with God being more than just Creator.
MD didn't say anything like that till much later, and in more complicated terms and generally
does not speak English as Justin does. MD rattles off in long complicated terms that Justin has no capacity to replicate.

MD's issue is with antitheists or atheists attacking him and his proof for the sake of attack,
so he does the same thing, and attacks back one minute by poorly spouting off nonsense like calling GT a valley girl,
and then posts 10 points of highly complicated arguments that don't address the objection. Justin doesn't do that.

Justin AT LEAST tries to explain what his objection is using Plain terms.

Justin has stated in two messages now his issue is
* God's absolute truth cannot be relative
* if you do go off on relativity, then anything could be anything and becomes meaningless

MD has never made such an argument or explained his qualms.
Justin at least spelled out why he isn't following what Boss or I am saying.

GT/Boss even if these are two branches from the same tree,
they are both arguing DIFFERENT things, so these can be addressed SEPARATELY.

if we stick to the points, we can resolve those REGARDLESS.
Justin's posts are bringing up personal issues he has which are unique.
M.D. has offered no explanation or correction to why his objections have come out as accusations.

But it's way more fun to consider them one person, and also keeps things more organized and concise. All in all, it enhances my quality of life 0.000000001367%, which is closer to zero than one but still, it's NOT zero. I may even have a party in its honor!

If we don't respect and treat people as individuals,
how can we ask them not to lump us all together and dismiss us collectively?

We need to stop this business of labeling for convenience.

Especially if Boss is trying to distinguish God as Creator from God as Logic naturally existing.

How can we ask others to make a distinction that is more convenient for us,
when we refuse to distinguish them from something or someone else we are lumping together?

I told you a long time ago, Emily.

I don't take this as seriously as you do. This is a flippant internet conversation to pass time while I also handle my business. It cuts it up a bit. In real life, these conversations would never devolve like this such as they have, not in the circles of people that I keep around.

I lost respect for justin and md long ago, when I saw that their tactics of discussion were grimy.

I consider them vile, as humans. I don't want to respect them. And I'm even the re-conciliatory kind of guy, I give people chances because I'm pretty nice. For that reason, it's even MORE egregious when someone crosses my line of disrespect.

So, to bring the point home for you: I have zero reason or want or necessity to respect these vile creatures.

I respect you though. We disagree in terms of spiritualism, and can still get along like peanut butter and jelly. That's because we are nice people.

These gentlemen called you names, as well. And YOU DEFINITELY did not start that level of disrespect with them. Remember that, when they think they can talk past or down to you, and pretend that you need a babysitter telling you who and who not to trust and things like that. The blatant disrespect cannot be reeled in, their egos are to the moon, alice.

Dear me!

GT, no wonder they lash out and have no respect
if the sentiment is mutual.

I just know that where I treat people with respect,
they do the same, or try to.

how are we going to carve out any civility in the world
if we treat each other as trash?

It makes sense to me if we want to make the world a better place,
the only things we can change are the relations in our range.

If we don't even clean up the garbage there, where we can do something about it,
what hope is there for the rest of the world to clean up messes going on?

Just my understanding of think globally, act locally.
Whatever we do to correct error and restore good faith relations locally
you multiply that by 1000 and you get an exponential impact on the world.

You don't have to believe in the 100th monkey syndrome, or 6 degrees of separation.
Even young kids get the idea of the ripple effect, that if you do one nice thing to
make things better, then the positive love and energy passes forward.

here is a whole nonprofit group doing outreach based on that concept:
Rachel s Challenge
If just one student can have this much impact, think of what the rest of us can do!

I think, from what I remember reading, he was just saying "he/we don't have time for all that shit". We come here to vent a little. If you want to effectively communicate, stop whatever yoga mentality bullshit you are trying to put on us. No one is buying in yet I see you reaching out to everyone the same way. It's not effective. Try something new. Or put it in plain terms. If we are bitching about abortion, we already know the other sides position on it. We disagree. And it is the other side that doesn't want to focus on the real problems, which is how can we reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies. Why don't they want to talk about the solutions? Because they involve rubbers and birth control and sex ed in school. Even covering contraception as part of your healthcare coverage. They don't understand that it's important. Why? Because their god tells them his way or the highway.

Well, maybe after the venting stage
more people will blow off the excess steam
and start focusing on what really will make the engine run smoothly
where we agree how to stay on the right track toward agreed solutions,
instead of throwing cows onto the train tracks to derail each other to control the train.

 

[emilynghiem]

If we don't respect and treat people as individuals,
how can we ask them not to lump us all together and dismiss us collectively?

We need to stop this business of labeling for convenience.

Especially if Boss is trying to distinguish God as Creator from God as Logic naturally existing.

How can we ask others to make a distinction that is more convenient for us,
when we refuse to distinguish them from something or someone else we are lumping together?

I told you a long time ago, Emily.

I don't take this as seriously as you do. This is a flippant internet conversation to pass time while I also handle my business. It cuts it up a bit. In real life, these conversations would never devolve like this such as they have, not in the circles of people that I keep around.

I lost respect for justin and md long ago, when I saw that their tactics of discussion were grimy.

I consider them vile, as humans. I don't want to respect them. And I'm even the re-conciliatory kind of guy, I give people chances because I'm pretty nice. For that reason, it's even MORE egregious when someone crosses my line of disrespect.

So, to bring the point home for you: I have zero reason or want or necessity to respect these vile creatures.

I respect you though. We disagree in terms of spiritualism, and can still get along like peanut butter and jelly. That's because we are nice people.

These gentlemen called you names, as well. And YOU DEFINITELY did not start that level of disrespect with them. Remember that, when they think they can talk past or down to you, and pretend that you need a babysitter telling you who and who not to trust and things like that. The blatant disrespect cannot be reeled in, their egos are to the moon, alice.

Dear me!

GT, no wonder they lash out and have no respect
if the sentiment is mutual.

I just know that where I treat people with respect,
they do the same, or try to.

how are we going to carve out any civility in the world
if we treat each other as trash?

It makes sense to me if we want to make the world a better place,
the only things we can change are the relations in our range.

If we don't even clean up the garbage there, where we can do something about it,
what hope is there for the rest of the world to clean up messes going on?

Just my understanding of think globally, act locally.
Whatever we do to correct error and restore good faith relations locally
you multiply that by 1000 and you get an exponential impact on the world.

You don't have to believe in the 100th monkey syndrome, or 6 degrees of separation.
Even young kids get the idea of the ripple effect, that if you do one nice thing to
make things better, then the positive love and energy passes forward.

here is a whole nonprofit group doing outreach based on that concept:
Rachel s Challenge
If just one student can have this much impact, think of what the rest of us can do!

Is the sentiment mutual when they lash out at YOU?

Think.


Pacifism has its wisdom, but in these situations and for me personally - it's naive.

If you could, ignore that I'll never respect them and treat my and your interactions independent from the rest of the bumble-jargain.

You are correct, god cannot be proven n'or dis-proven by humans. We begin on similar ground there. However you'd like to elaborate based upon that, I'm game/open minded.

I'm saying we can reach agreement
if we can get past our forgiveness/unforgiveness issues.

So to prove that, we'd have to show that by forgiving each others differences,
we can do more to resolve them.

So part of this process here is to demonstrate the difference:
if people don't forgive, they get stuck
if people do forgive, they can move forward and resolve more points.
the views/beliefs underneath don't really change,
but our perception of how our views connect and relate to each other (despite our differences)
does the more we forgive the conflicts.

Fine. I forgive you that you make women who don't want to have a child guilty.

I forgive you that you took Texas from having 30 abortion clinics all over the state to 6. Making it harder for poor people, not rich, to get abortions, even if they don't want or shouldn't have children.

I forgive you that your side murdered Dr. Tiller. Don't do it again, please.

I forgive you that you make it harder for poor women to get abortions and the lower the amount of foodstamps you give them so it isn't enough. Is that tough love? It certainly isn't smart. Maybe we should cover birth control pills for poor women? Maybe that would make sense. And pills aren't enough. We should get poor women IUD's. That takes the chances of having an accident or mistake from 50% to 2%.

So if you want to talk about how we can lower the number of teen pregnancies, which will lead to less abortions, we've been trying to have that conversation for years. Tell your side.

Hi Sealybobo: Are you talking to me? I am a prochoice Democrat.
I support the equal religious beliefs of both prochoice and prolife equally.
I believe the prolife position is best exercised as it is now by CHOICE not force of law.

I don't believe in imposing any laws/legislation/punitive measures
that violate either prochoice or prolife beliefs I hold as equally protected under Constitutional laws as equal beliefs.

So I believe in laws passed by consensus that all sides agree support both and violate neither.

So this points to prevention as you stated you also see as the logical focus!

What disagreement do you have that you see me as representing?

I believe in stopping all forms of abuse: relationship abuse, sexual abuse, incest, rape,
trafficking and other crimes in order to prevent abortions. I find that men are equally
if not more responsible for the unwanted pregnancy in cases of coercion so it makes
no sense to penalize the women after the fact as that discriminates against women
when it takes two people to cause the pregnancy, and if the sex was coerced it wasn't the women's fault. So prevention of abuse seems the fairest focus that doesn't discriminate,
but on that level, the state cannot legislate and it has to be the people to intervene and
educate and prevent abuses. the state can only address crimes after they have occurred.

So the focus should be on prevention on a level that people control those choices.

if we can stop rape, bullying coercion and other abuses, then the unwanted sex,
pregnancies and abortions will stop. that is up to the people not the govt because it is
on a personal level outside the govt jurisdiction.

 

[peach174]

Here is proof
Florida woman survives 45 minutes without pulse - NY Daily News
Not having any brain or physical damage what so ever.
These types miracles happen all the time and they all say the same thing.
That they were on the other side and they were told it was not their time yet and that they had to return.

It's all in their heads. They were even heavily sedated. Maybe that's what happens when the lights start to go out. Your brain races and has flashbacks (life flashed before my eyes) plus we've all heard these stories growing up so when it is our time we are basically wishful thinking/hoping to see St. Peter at the Pearly gates. Grow up.

You are using an excuse and you tell me to grow up?
Going 45 min. without a pulse and having no brain damage is a miracle and even the Doctors are amazed.
How do you explain the deaths on the operating table and patients tell them exactly what was said and done in the operating room. No heart beat and no brain waves These experiences have started studies on the concept of life after death.
When you have no brain waves there is no flashbacks

 

[G.T.]

Here is proof
Florida woman survives 45 minutes without pulse - NY Daily News
Not having any brain or physical damage what so ever.
These types miracles happen all the time and they all say the same thing.
That they were on the other side and they were told it was not their time yet and that they had to return.

It's all in their heads. They were even heavily sedated. Maybe that's what happens when the lights start to go out. Your brain races and has flashbacks (life flashed before my eyes) plus we've all heard these stories growing up so when it is our time we are basically wishful thinking/hoping to see St. Peter at the Pearly gates. Grow up.

You are using an excuse and you tell me to grow up?
Going 45 min. without a pulse and having no brain damage is a miracle and even the Doctors are amazed.
How do you explain the deaths on the operating table and patients tell them exactly what was said and done in the operating room. No heart beat and no brain waves These experiences have started studies on the concept of life after death.
When you have no brain waves there is no flashbacks

But because we don't yet have an explanation that is natural, doesn't mean we won't find one and so jumping the gun and calling it concrete evidence for someone or something that didn't directly come down and show people that IT was what was doing what was happening - - - - - is not a very sound practice of discovery.

 

[sealybobo]

I told you a long time ago, Emily.

I don't take this as seriously as you do. This is a flippant internet conversation to pass time while I also handle my business. It cuts it up a bit. In real life, these conversations would never devolve like this such as they have, not in the circles of people that I keep around.

I lost respect for justin and md long ago, when I saw that their tactics of discussion were grimy.

I consider them vile, as humans. I don't want to respect them. And I'm even the re-conciliatory kind of guy, I give people chances because I'm pretty nice. For that reason, it's even MORE egregious when someone crosses my line of disrespect.

So, to bring the point home for you: I have zero reason or want or necessity to respect these vile creatures.

I respect you though. We disagree in terms of spiritualism, and can still get along like peanut butter and jelly. That's because we are nice people.

These gentlemen called you names, as well. And YOU DEFINITELY did not start that level of disrespect with them. Remember that, when they think they can talk past or down to you, and pretend that you need a babysitter telling you who and who not to trust and things like that. The blatant disrespect cannot be reeled in, their egos are to the moon, alice.

Dear me!

GT, no wonder they lash out and have no respect
if the sentiment is mutual.

I just know that where I treat people with respect,
they do the same, or try to.

how are we going to carve out any civility in the world
if we treat each other as trash?

It makes sense to me if we want to make the world a better place,
the only things we can change are the relations in our range.

If we don't even clean up the garbage there, where we can do something about it,
what hope is there for the rest of the world to clean up messes going on?

Just my understanding of think globally, act locally.
Whatever we do to correct error and restore good faith relations locally
you multiply that by 1000 and you get an exponential impact on the world.

You don't have to believe in the 100th monkey syndrome, or 6 degrees of separation.
Even young kids get the idea of the ripple effect, that if you do one nice thing to
make things better, then the positive love and energy passes forward.

here is a whole nonprofit group doing outreach based on that concept:
Rachel s Challenge
If just one student can have this much impact, think of what the rest of us can do!

Is the sentiment mutual when they lash out at YOU?

Think.


Pacifism has its wisdom, but in these situations and for me personally - it's naive.

If you could, ignore that I'll never respect them and treat my and your interactions independent from the rest of the bumble-jargain.

You are correct, god cannot be proven n'or dis-proven by humans. We begin on similar ground there. However you'd like to elaborate based upon that, I'm game/open minded.

I'm saying we can reach agreement
if we can get past our forgiveness/unforgiveness issues.

So to prove that, we'd have to show that by forgiving each others differences,
we can do more to resolve them.

So part of this process here is to demonstrate the difference:
if people don't forgive, they get stuck
if people do forgive, they can move forward and resolve more points.
the views/beliefs underneath don't really change,
but our perception of how our views connect and relate to each other (despite our differences)
does the more we forgive the conflicts.

Fine. I forgive you that you make women who don't want to have a child guilty.

I forgive you that you took Texas from having 30 abortion clinics all over the state to 6. Making it harder for poor people, not rich, to get abortions, even if they don't want or shouldn't have children.

I forgive you that your side murdered Dr. Tiller. Don't do it again, please.

I forgive you that you make it harder for poor women to get abortions and the lower the amount of foodstamps you give them so it isn't enough. Is that tough love? It certainly isn't smart. Maybe we should cover birth control pills for poor women? Maybe that would make sense. And pills aren't enough. We should get poor women IUD's. That takes the chances of having an accident or mistake from 50% to 2%.

So if you want to talk about how we can lower the number of teen pregnancies, which will lead to less abortions, we've been trying to have that conversation for years. Tell your side.

Hi Sealybobo: Are you talking to me? I am a prochoice Democrat.
I support the equal religious beliefs of both prochoice and prolife equally.
I believe the prolife position is best exercised as it is now by CHOICE not force of law.

I don't believe in imposing any laws/legislation/punitive measures
that violate either prochoice or prolife beliefs I hold as equally protected under Constitutional laws as equal beliefs.

So I believe in laws passed by consensus that all sides agree support both and violate neither.

So this points to prevention as you stated you also see as the logical focus!

What disagreement do you have that you see me as representing?

I believe in stopping all forms of abuse: relationship abuse, sexual abuse, incest, rape,
trafficking and other crimes in order to prevent abortions. I find that men are equally
if not more responsible for the unwanted pregnancy in cases of coercion so it makes
no sense to penalize the women after the fact as that discriminates against women
when it takes two people to cause the pregnancy, and if the sex was coerced it wasn't the women's fault. So prevention of abuse seems the fairest focus that doesn't discriminate,
but on that level, the state cannot legislate and it has to be the people to intervene and
educate and prevent abuses. the state can only address crimes after they have occurred.

So the focus should be on prevention on a level that people control those choices.

if we can stop rape, bullying coercion and other abuses, then the unwanted sex,
pregnancies and abortions will stop. that is up to the people not the govt because it is
on a personal level outside the govt jurisdiction.

I don't question your position on things. I disagree with how you constantly keep asking us all to "see the other side". My point is I do. I see the conservatives side on everything.

Oh, and this is more for Boss, but I was watching this movie on terrorism and the man woke his kid up at 4:30am to pray, say allah akbar 30 times. Basically brainwashing that kid. Eventually that kid will grow up to brainwash his sons and daughters the same way.

And you wonder why we think this god character is made up? Look at how believers act. Don't tell me Christians are much better. Of course they are. But they still believe in the same imaginary invisible man. I believe this believe is unhealthy. It may make most theists happy but that doesn't mean its a good thing overall.

 

[emilynghiem]

Here is proof
Florida woman survives 45 minutes without pulse - NY Daily News
Not having any brain or physical damage what so ever.
These types miracles happen all the time and they all say the same thing.
That they were on the other side and they were told it was not their time yet and that they had to return.

It's all in their heads. They were even heavily sedated. Maybe that's what happens when the lights start to go out. Your brain races and has flashbacks (life flashed before my eyes) plus we've all heard these stories growing up so when it is our time we are basically wishful thinking/hoping to see St. Peter at the Pearly gates. Grow up.

You are using an excuse and you tell me to grow up?
Going 45 min. without a pulse and having no brain damage is a miracle and even the Doctors are amazed.
How do you explain the deaths on the operating table and patients tell them exactly what was said and done in the operating room. No heart beat and no brain waves These experiences have started studies on the concept of life after death.
When you have no brain waves there is no flashbacks

Dear Peach174 and Sealybobo:
My favorite author/testimony on this phenomena is
Don Piper "90 Minutes in Heaven"
He did not even want to return to life on earth after he had his "vision of heaven" real or imagined.
He wanted to stay there!
After he got crushed to death by an 18 wheeler, with no pulse for 90 minutes,
he came back with no brain/head injuries. His body had to be reconstructed,
but his brain and functions were completely normal which teh doctors coudl not explain.
he jsut felt that it was a blessing his heart stopped or he would have "bled out"
so he understood he needed to be in a suspended state of death in order to recover later.

But the more people asked him to share his story,
he saw they got something out of it that made them
appreciate life and each other better, they prayed together and uplifted one another
by understanding that prayer did have a positive connection on a higher level.

So it was only because it helped other people
that he accepted his role and purpose, to use his story that way.

Every day he lives in such pain where only a few minutes or maybe
2 hours of each day he doesn't feel pain, that it is only worth it
because it has helped other people to live and not give up.

because he had to go through painful bone reconstruction
he has counseled other people to bear and live with the pain
even though they'd rather die it hurts so unstoppably.
so there are many levels he has used his story
"real or imagined" to help people rise above physical suffering and enjoy life with thanks despite the pain and losses.

it still serves a good purpose and doesn't have to be real or fake,
the vision is what it is, Don had his vision and it helped him make it through and help others as well.

 

[sealybobo]

Here is proof
Florida woman survives 45 minutes without pulse - NY Daily News
Not having any brain or physical damage what so ever.
These types miracles happen all the time and they all say the same thing.
That they were on the other side and they were told it was not their time yet and that they had to return.

It's all in their heads. They were even heavily sedated. Maybe that's what happens when the lights start to go out. Your brain races and has flashbacks (life flashed before my eyes) plus we've all heard these stories growing up so when it is our time we are basically wishful thinking/hoping to see St. Peter at the Pearly gates. Grow up.

You are using an excuse and you tell me to grow up?
Going 45 min. without a pulse and having no brain damage is a miracle and even the Doctors are amazed.
How do you explain the deaths on the operating table and patients tell them exactly what was said and done in the operating room. No heart beat and no brain waves These experiences have started studies on the concept of life after death.
When you have no brain waves there is no flashbacks

No it is not a miracle. An amputee waking up and his arm has grown back would be a miracle.

Besides, the existence of a miracle would pose logical problems for belief in a god which can supposedly see the future and began the universe with a set of predefined laws. Even if a ‘miracle’ could be demonstrated it would not immediately imply the existence of a god, much less any particular one, as unknown natural processes or agents could still be at work.

Most alleged miracles can be explained as statistically unlikely occurrences. For example, one child surviving a plane crash that kills two hundred others is not a miracle, just as one person winning the lottery is not. In the absence of any empirical evidence, all other claims can be dismissed as the result of magical thinking, misattribution, credulity, hearsay and anecdote. Eye-witness testimony and anecdotal accounts are, by themselves, not reliable or definitive forms of proof for such extraordinary claims.

Divine intervention claims most often concern systems and events for which we have poor predictive capabilities, for example, weather, sports, health and social/economic interactions. Such claims are rarely made in relation to those things we can accurately predict and test e.g. the motion of celestial bodies, boiling point of water and pull of gravity. If a god is constantly intervening in the universe it supposedly created, then it is with such ambiguity as to appear completely indistinguishable from normal background chance.

Note: Theists often fail to adequately apportion blame when claims of their particular god’s ‘infinite mercy’ or ‘omnibenevolence’ involve sparing a few lives in a disaster, or recovery from a debilitating disease – all of which their god would ultimately be responsible for inflicting if it existed.

Funny when some lives it's a miracle and when someone dies it's gods will.

 

[amrchaos]

Emily

Kindness can only reach people that are receptive to it.

Tolerance is for those who might mean no harm.

It is a brave thing to offer either to people you do not know. But make no mistake in assuming everyone will reciprocate your kindness or mean no harm.

There is a point when you must stop. If, at least, for the sake of your sanity.

There are people with dark personalities. They will not reciprocate your kindness, and they will take advantage of your tolerance.

Please keep what I said in mind as this thread continues.

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear me!

GT, no wonder they lash out and have no respect
if the sentiment is mutual.

I just know that where I treat people with respect,
they do the same, or try to.

how are we going to carve out any civility in the world
if we treat each other as trash?

It makes sense to me if we want to make the world a better place,
the only things we can change are the relations in our range.

If we don't even clean up the garbage there, where we can do something about it,
what hope is there for the rest of the world to clean up messes going on?

Just my understanding of think globally, act locally.
Whatever we do to correct error and restore good faith relations locally
you multiply that by 1000 and you get an exponential impact on the world.

You don't have to believe in the 100th monkey syndrome, or 6 degrees of separation.
Even young kids get the idea of the ripple effect, that if you do one nice thing to
make things better, then the positive love and energy passes forward.

here is a whole nonprofit group doing outreach based on that concept:
Rachel s Challenge
If just one student can have this much impact, think of what the rest of us can do!

Is the sentiment mutual when they lash out at YOU?

Think.


Pacifism has its wisdom, but in these situations and for me personally - it's naive.

If you could, ignore that I'll never respect them and treat my and your interactions independent from the rest of the bumble-jargain.

You are correct, god cannot be proven n'or dis-proven by humans. We begin on similar ground there. However you'd like to elaborate based upon that, I'm game/open minded.

I'm saying we can reach agreement
if we can get past our forgiveness/unforgiveness issues.

So to prove that, we'd have to show that by forgiving each others differences,
we can do more to resolve them.

So part of this process here is to demonstrate the difference:
if people don't forgive, they get stuck
if people do forgive, they can move forward and resolve more points.
the views/beliefs underneath don't really change,
but our perception of how our views connect and relate to each other (despite our differences)
does the more we forgive the conflicts.

Fine. I forgive you that you make women who don't want to have a child guilty.

I forgive you that you took Texas from having 30 abortion clinics all over the state to 6. Making it harder for poor people, not rich, to get abortions, even if they don't want or shouldn't have children.

I forgive you that your side murdered Dr. Tiller. Don't do it again, please.

I forgive you that you make it harder for poor women to get abortions and the lower the amount of foodstamps you give them so it isn't enough. Is that tough love? It certainly isn't smart. Maybe we should cover birth control pills for poor women? Maybe that would make sense. And pills aren't enough. We should get poor women IUD's. That takes the chances of having an accident or mistake from 50% to 2%.

So if you want to talk about how we can lower the number of teen pregnancies, which will lead to less abortions, we've been trying to have that conversation for years. Tell your side.

Hi Sealybobo: Are you talking to me? I am a prochoice Democrat.
I support the equal religious beliefs of both prochoice and prolife equally.
I believe the prolife position is best exercised as it is now by CHOICE not force of law.

I don't believe in imposing any laws/legislation/punitive measures
that violate either prochoice or prolife beliefs I hold as equally protected under Constitutional laws as equal beliefs.

So I believe in laws passed by consensus that all sides agree support both and violate neither.

So this points to prevention as you stated you also see as the logical focus!

What disagreement do you have that you see me as representing?

I believe in stopping all forms of abuse: relationship abuse, sexual abuse, incest, rape,
trafficking and other crimes in order to prevent abortions. I find that men are equally
if not more responsible for the unwanted pregnancy in cases of coercion so it makes
no sense to penalize the women after the fact as that discriminates against women
when it takes two people to cause the pregnancy, and if the sex was coerced it wasn't the women's fault. So prevention of abuse seems the fairest focus that doesn't discriminate,
but on that level, the state cannot legislate and it has to be the people to intervene and
educate and prevent abuses. the state can only address crimes after they have occurred.

So the focus should be on prevention on a level that people control those choices.

if we can stop rape, bullying coercion and other abuses, then the unwanted sex,
pregnancies and abortions will stop. that is up to the people not the govt because it is
on a personal level outside the govt jurisdiction.

I don't question your position on things. I disagree with how you constantly keep asking us all to "see the other side". My point is I do. I see the conservatives side on everything.

Oh, and this is more for Boss, but I was watching this movie on terrorism and the man woke his kid up at 4:30am to pray, say allah akbar 30 times. Basically brainwashing that kid. Eventually that kid will grow up to brainwash his sons and daughters the same way.

And you wonder why we think this god character is made up? Look at how believers act. Don't tell me Christians are much better. Of course they are. But they still believe in the same imaginary invisible man. I believe this believe is unhealthy. It may make most theists happy but that doesn't mean its a good thing overall.

Sealybobo:
Do you see enough of the other side to see how "our side" looks to them?

It looks like Democrats don't care about choice for other people such as health care,
but only choice when we want to use abortion as a political tool to organize votes.

It looks like liberals/Democrats don't care about defending Christian practices,
but only Atheists. And only care about one side's views of marriage but not other people's equal beliefs.

It looks like liberals don't care about Mia Love and Tim Scott being black leaders elected historically,
but slam any conservative Blacks as "not real Blacks but Uncle Toms" and only pushing stories
in the media that fit the race-baiting agenda.

Sealybobo do you HONESTLY treat Conservatives the same as your own peers?

Do you DEMAND that the Liberals be forgiven as you point out with forgiving the perceived injustice by Conservatives?

Sealybobo, if liberals block and reject the practice of spiritual healing as valid,
this is preventing people from getting help for mental and physical disorders.

How many people have died of suicide, addiction, mental or criminal illness or acts of sick people
who could have been cured and deaths prevented had Spiritual Healing been proven earilier?

So this "separation of church and state" that Liberals tout
is CENSORING help that could save lives.

Do you ask liberals to apologize for that?

 

[G.T.]

Emily

Kindness can only reach people that are receptive to it.

Tolerance is for those who might mean no harm.

It is a brave thing to offer either to people you do not know. But make no mistake in assuming everyone will reciprocate your kindness or mean no harm.

There is a point when you must stop. If, at least, for the sake of your sanity.

There are people with dark personalities. They will not reciprocate your kindness, and they will take advantage of your tolerance.

Please keep what I said in mind as this thread continues.

Hey man, I'm not going to take advantage of anyone but my wife! lol

 

[sealybobo]

Here is proof
Florida woman survives 45 minutes without pulse - NY Daily News
Not having any brain or physical damage what so ever.
These types miracles happen all the time and they all say the same thing.
That they were on the other side and they were told it was not their time yet and that they had to return.

It's all in their heads. They were even heavily sedated. Maybe that's what happens when the lights start to go out. Your brain races and has flashbacks (life flashed before my eyes) plus we've all heard these stories growing up so when it is our time we are basically wishful thinking/hoping to see St. Peter at the Pearly gates. Grow up.

You are using an excuse and you tell me to grow up?
Going 45 min. without a pulse and having no brain damage is a miracle and even the Doctors are amazed.
How do you explain the deaths on the operating table and patients tell them exactly what was said and done in the operating room. No heart beat and no brain waves These experiences have started studies on the concept of life after death.
When you have no brain waves there is no flashbacks

But because we don't yet have an explanation that is natural, doesn't mean we won't find one and so jumping the gun and calling it concrete evidence for someone or something that didn't directly come down and show people that IT was what was doing what was happening - - - - - is not a very sound practice of discovery.

Same thing with the god.

We've been asking this question a long time.

Cosmogony is any theory concerning the coming into existence (or origin) of either the cosmos (or universe), or the so-called reality of sentient beings.

And we still don't have an explanation yet that is natural. But remember all the things they thought were god turned out to have scientific explanations? Yet still they say WE must be from god. But that's not based on evidence, unless you believe one of the organized religions. Those are all unbelievable lies. So we go back to before the Abraham 3 Religions, back to the same question, what created us?

And you and I know the answer is still we don't know.

I love it when weak minded theists swear they saw a ghost or angel or had an out of body experience or saw an exorcist. LOL.

 

[emilynghiem]

Here is proof
Florida woman survives 45 minutes without pulse - NY Daily News
Not having any brain or physical damage what so ever.
These types miracles happen all the time and they all say the same thing.
That they were on the other side and they were told it was not their time yet and that they had to return.

It's all in their heads. They were even heavily sedated. Maybe that's what happens when the lights start to go out. Your brain races and has flashbacks (life flashed before my eyes) plus we've all heard these stories growing up so when it is our time we are basically wishful thinking/hoping to see St. Peter at the Pearly gates. Grow up.

You are using an excuse and you tell me to grow up?
Going 45 min. without a pulse and having no brain damage is a miracle and even the Doctors are amazed.
How do you explain the deaths on the operating table and patients tell them exactly what was said and done in the operating room. No heart beat and no brain waves These experiences have started studies on the concept of life after death.
When you have no brain waves there is no flashbacks

No it is not a miracle. An amputee waking up and his arm has grown back would be a miracle.

Besides, the existence of a miracle would pose logical problems for belief in a god which can supposedly see the future and began the universe with a set of predefined laws. Even if a ‘miracle’ could be demonstrated it would not immediately imply the existence of a god, much less any particular one, as unknown natural processes or agents could still be at work.

Most alleged miracles can be explained as statistically unlikely occurrences. For example, one child surviving a plane crash that kills two hundred others is not a miracle, just as one person winning the lottery is not. In the absence of any empirical evidence, all other claims can be dismissed as the result of magical thinking, misattribution, credulity, hearsay and anecdote. Eye-witness testimony and anecdotal accounts are, by themselves, not reliable or definitive forms of proof for such extraordinary claims.

Divine intervention claims most often concern systems and events for which we have poor predictive capabilities, for example, weather, sports, health and social/economic interactions. Such claims are rarely made in relation to those things we can accurately predict and test e.g. the motion of celestial bodies, boiling point of water and pull of gravity. If a god is constantly intervening in the universe it supposedly created, then it is with such ambiguity as to appear completely indistinguishable from normal background chance.

Note: Theists often fail to adequately apportion blame when claims of their particular god’s ‘infinite mercy’ or ‘omnibenevolence’ involve sparing a few lives in a disaster, or recovery from a debilitating disease – all of which their god would ultimately be responsible for inflicting if it existed.

Funny when some lives it's a miracle and when someone dies it's gods will.

Dear Sealybobo:
No, spiritual healing is natural and works WITH the laws of nature not against it.
you cannot turn something into something it is not, like you cannot change a butterfly into an elephant.

What you CAN do is identify the spiritual root cause of blockage
that is IMPEDING natural healing, and then remove it.

So once the natural healing energy flows full force,
this can result in curing and healing
* cancer
* schizophrenia including demonic voices
* multiple personalities by removing demons
* suicidal, self-destructive or addictive obsessions in the spirit and mind
* causes or symptoms of abusive behavior

This is all natural and consistent with science.

See sources for further research at freespiritualhealing Resources for Healing and Forgiveness Therapy

 

[sealybobo]

Is the sentiment mutual when they lash out at YOU?

Think.


Pacifism has its wisdom, but in these situations and for me personally - it's naive.

If you could, ignore that I'll never respect them and treat my and your interactions independent from the rest of the bumble-jargain.

You are correct, god cannot be proven n'or dis-proven by humans. We begin on similar ground there. However you'd like to elaborate based upon that, I'm game/open minded.

I'm saying we can reach agreement
if we can get past our forgiveness/unforgiveness issues.

So to prove that, we'd have to show that by forgiving each others differences,
we can do more to resolve them.

So part of this process here is to demonstrate the difference:
if people don't forgive, they get stuck
if people do forgive, they can move forward and resolve more points.
the views/beliefs underneath don't really change,
but our perception of how our views connect and relate to each other (despite our differences)
does the more we forgive the conflicts.

Fine. I forgive you that you make women who don't want to have a child guilty.

I forgive you that you took Texas from having 30 abortion clinics all over the state to 6. Making it harder for poor people, not rich, to get abortions, even if they don't want or shouldn't have children.

I forgive you that your side murdered Dr. Tiller. Don't do it again, please.

I forgive you that you make it harder for poor women to get abortions and the lower the amount of foodstamps you give them so it isn't enough. Is that tough love? It certainly isn't smart. Maybe we should cover birth control pills for poor women? Maybe that would make sense. And pills aren't enough. We should get poor women IUD's. That takes the chances of having an accident or mistake from 50% to 2%.

So if you want to talk about how we can lower the number of teen pregnancies, which will lead to less abortions, we've been trying to have that conversation for years. Tell your side.

Hi Sealybobo: Are you talking to me? I am a prochoice Democrat.
I support the equal religious beliefs of both prochoice and prolife equally.
I believe the prolife position is best exercised as it is now by CHOICE not force of law.

I don't believe in imposing any laws/legislation/punitive measures
that violate either prochoice or prolife beliefs I hold as equally protected under Constitutional laws as equal beliefs.

So I believe in laws passed by consensus that all sides agree support both and violate neither.

So this points to prevention as you stated you also see as the logical focus!

What disagreement do you have that you see me as representing?

I believe in stopping all forms of abuse: relationship abuse, sexual abuse, incest, rape,
trafficking and other crimes in order to prevent abortions. I find that men are equally
if not more responsible for the unwanted pregnancy in cases of coercion so it makes
no sense to penalize the women after the fact as that discriminates against women
when it takes two people to cause the pregnancy, and if the sex was coerced it wasn't the women's fault. So prevention of abuse seems the fairest focus that doesn't discriminate,
but on that level, the state cannot legislate and it has to be the people to intervene and
educate and prevent abuses. the state can only address crimes after they have occurred.

So the focus should be on prevention on a level that people control those choices.

if we can stop rape, bullying coercion and other abuses, then the unwanted sex,
pregnancies and abortions will stop. that is up to the people not the govt because it is
on a personal level outside the govt jurisdiction.

I don't question your position on things. I disagree with how you constantly keep asking us all to "see the other side". My point is I do. I see the conservatives side on everything.

Oh, and this is more for Boss, but I was watching this movie on terrorism and the man woke his kid up at 4:30am to pray, say allah akbar 30 times. Basically brainwashing that kid. Eventually that kid will grow up to brainwash his sons and daughters the same way.

And you wonder why we think this god character is made up? Look at how believers act. Don't tell me Christians are much better. Of course they are. But they still believe in the same imaginary invisible man. I believe this believe is unhealthy. It may make most theists happy but that doesn't mean its a good thing overall.

Sealybobo:
Do you see enough of the other side to see how "our side" looks to them?

It looks like Democrats don't care about choice for other people such as health care,
but only choice when we want to use abortion as a political tool to organize votes.

It looks like liberals/Democrats don't care about defending Christian practices,
but only Atheists. And only care about one side's views of marriage but not other people's equal beliefs.

It looks like liberals don't care about Mia Love and Tim Scott being black leaders elected historically,
but slam any conservative Blacks as "not real Blacks but Uncle Toms" and only pushing stories
in the media that fit the race-baiting agenda.

Sealybobo do you HONESTLY treat Conservatives the same as your own peers?

Do you DEMAND that the Liberals be forgiven as you point out with forgiving the perceived injustice by Conservatives?

Sealybobo, if liberals block and reject the practice of spiritual healing as valid,
this is preventing people from getting help for mental and physical disorders.

How many people have died of suicide, addiction, mental or criminal illness or acts of sick people
who could have been cured and deaths prevented had Spiritual Healing been proven earilier?

So this "separation of church and state" that Liberals tout
is CENSORING help that could save lives.

Do you ask liberals to apologize for that?

We didn't turn abortion into a political football. That was the GOP. They need wedge issues like god gays and guns to divide the middle class who would otherwise vote for the workers party. Seeing as how they are workers. And the ones that sat home, maybe did so because they couldn't vote for the godless pro abortion liberals!!!

 

[emilynghiem]

Emily

Kindness can only reach people that are receptive to it.

Tolerance is for those who might mean no harm.

It is a brave thing to offer either to people you do not know. But make no mistake in assuming everyone will reciprocate your kindness or mean no harm.

There is a point when you must stop. If, at least, for the sake of your sanity.

There are people with dark personalities. They will not reciprocate your kindness, and they will take advantage of your tolerance.

Please keep what I said in mind as this thread continues.

If there are forces that dark, then we need to call in an exorcist to remove the demonic influences.

I didn't think it was that bad until I saw the twisted perceptions accusing others of far fetched things.
If that doesn't straighten out by our own interactions to correct them,
yes, I might believe there are outside forces at play manipulating people's minds.

I don't think anyone here is that criminally sick, but even a stuck obsession
can be hard to root out by oneself. if people are that bent on destructive rejection, it may not be within their control.
I didn't think it was that bad. these people seemed open to reason
and only acted that way if the OTHER person also accused and didn't forgive.

When I respond trying to be reasonable and listening, they seem to respond so that's why i thought
it was still within our ability to correct ourselves. I don't think it is on the level of demonic interference from outside?

 

[G.T.]

Here is proof
Florida woman survives 45 minutes without pulse - NY Daily News
Not having any brain or physical damage what so ever.
These types miracles happen all the time and they all say the same thing.
That they were on the other side and they were told it was not their time yet and that they had to return.

It's all in their heads. They were even heavily sedated. Maybe that's what happens when the lights start to go out. Your brain races and has flashbacks (life flashed before my eyes) plus we've all heard these stories growing up so when it is our time we are basically wishful thinking/hoping to see St. Peter at the Pearly gates. Grow up.

You are using an excuse and you tell me to grow up?
Going 45 min. without a pulse and having no brain damage is a miracle and even the Doctors are amazed.
How do you explain the deaths on the operating table and patients tell them exactly what was said and done in the operating room. No heart beat and no brain waves These experiences have started studies on the concept of life after death.
When you have no brain waves there is no flashbacks

But because we don't yet have an explanation that is natural, doesn't mean we won't find one and so jumping the gun and calling it concrete evidence for someone or something that didn't directly come down and show people that IT was what was doing what was happening - - - - - is not a very sound practice of discovery.

Same thing with the god.

We've been asking this question a long time.

Cosmogony is any theory concerning the coming into existence (or origin) of either the cosmos (or universe), or the so-called reality of sentient beings.

And we still don't have an explanation yet that is natural. But remember all the things they thought were god turned out to have scientific explanations? Yet still they say WE must be from god. But that's not based on evidence, unless you believe one of the organized religions. Those are all unbelievable lies. So we go back to before the Abraham 3 Religions, back to the same question, what created us?

And you and I know the answer is still we don't know.

I love it when weak minded theists swear they saw a ghost or angel or had an out of body experience or saw an exorcist. LOL.

Yea,

I only entertain these discussions for some intrigue, but I never really find it.

The only way to prove something to me is to reach a certain bar of objective evidence, which is to mean evidence not subjectively fanciful or a twisting of the English language to make a fallacious proof.

I think I'm reiterating, but besides my family and friends - the last things in life that could blow my intrigue like a kid in a candy store would be time travel and the knowledge of existence's origin. And, outlook not so good, so far.

 

[emilynghiem]

I'm saying we can reach agreement
if we can get past our forgiveness/unforgiveness issues.

So to prove that, we'd have to show that by forgiving each others differences,
we can do more to resolve them.

So part of this process here is to demonstrate the difference:
if people don't forgive, they get stuck
if people do forgive, they can move forward and resolve more points.
the views/beliefs underneath don't really change,
but our perception of how our views connect and relate to each other (despite our differences)
does the more we forgive the conflicts.

Fine. I forgive you that you make women who don't want to have a child guilty.

I forgive you that you took Texas from having 30 abortion clinics all over the state to 6. Making it harder for poor people, not rich, to get abortions, even if they don't want or shouldn't have children.

I forgive you that your side murdered Dr. Tiller. Don't do it again, please.

I forgive you that you make it harder for poor women to get abortions and the lower the amount of foodstamps you give them so it isn't enough. Is that tough love? It certainly isn't smart. Maybe we should cover birth control pills for poor women? Maybe that would make sense. And pills aren't enough. We should get poor women IUD's. That takes the chances of having an accident or mistake from 50% to 2%.

So if you want to talk about how we can lower the number of teen pregnancies, which will lead to less abortions, we've been trying to have that conversation for years. Tell your side.

Hi Sealybobo: Are you talking to me? I am a prochoice Democrat.
I support the equal religious beliefs of both prochoice and prolife equally.
I believe the prolife position is best exercised as it is now by CHOICE not force of law.

I don't believe in imposing any laws/legislation/punitive measures
that violate either prochoice or prolife beliefs I hold as equally protected under Constitutional laws as equal beliefs.

So I believe in laws passed by consensus that all sides agree support both and violate neither.

So this points to prevention as you stated you also see as the logical focus!

What disagreement do you have that you see me as representing?

I believe in stopping all forms of abuse: relationship abuse, sexual abuse, incest, rape,
trafficking and other crimes in order to prevent abortions. I find that men are equally
if not more responsible for the unwanted pregnancy in cases of coercion so it makes
no sense to penalize the women after the fact as that discriminates against women
when it takes two people to cause the pregnancy, and if the sex was coerced it wasn't the women's fault. So prevention of abuse seems the fairest focus that doesn't discriminate,
but on that level, the state cannot legislate and it has to be the people to intervene and
educate and prevent abuses. the state can only address crimes after they have occurred.

So the focus should be on prevention on a level that people control those choices.

if we can stop rape, bullying coercion and other abuses, then the unwanted sex,
pregnancies and abortions will stop. that is up to the people not the govt because it is
on a personal level outside the govt jurisdiction.

I don't question your position on things. I disagree with how you constantly keep asking us all to "see the other side". My point is I do. I see the conservatives side on everything.

Oh, and this is more for Boss, but I was watching this movie on terrorism and the man woke his kid up at 4:30am to pray, say allah akbar 30 times. Basically brainwashing that kid. Eventually that kid will grow up to brainwash his sons and daughters the same way.

And you wonder why we think this god character is made up? Look at how believers act. Don't tell me Christians are much better. Of course they are. But they still believe in the same imaginary invisible man. I believe this believe is unhealthy. It may make most theists happy but that doesn't mean its a good thing overall.

Sealybobo:
Do you see enough of the other side to see how "our side" looks to them?

It looks like Democrats don't care about choice for other people such as health care,
but only choice when we want to use abortion as a political tool to organize votes.

It looks like liberals/Democrats don't care about defending Christian practices,
but only Atheists. And only care about one side's views of marriage but not other people's equal beliefs.

It looks like liberals don't care about Mia Love and Tim Scott being black leaders elected historically,
but slam any conservative Blacks as "not real Blacks but Uncle Toms" and only pushing stories
in the media that fit the race-baiting agenda.

Sealybobo do you HONESTLY treat Conservatives the same as your own peers?

Do you DEMAND that the Liberals be forgiven as you point out with forgiving the perceived injustice by Conservatives?

Sealybobo, if liberals block and reject the practice of spiritual healing as valid,
this is preventing people from getting help for mental and physical disorders.

How many people have died of suicide, addiction, mental or criminal illness or acts of sick people
who could have been cured and deaths prevented had Spiritual Healing been proven earilier?

So this "separation of church and state" that Liberals tout
is CENSORING help that could save lives.

Do you ask liberals to apologize for that?

We didn't turn abortion into a political football. That was the GOP. They need wedge issues like god gays and guns to divide the middle class who would otherwise vote for the workers party. Seeing as how they are workers. And the ones that sat home, maybe did so because they couldn't vote for the godless pro abortion liberals!!!

Hi Sealybobo to cite the wisdom of Bernie Glassman who is a Buddhist/Jewish/Zen peacemaker
he noted that whenever a position
divides people as them vs. us, you vs. me, this group vs. that group
you are already not treating people as equals or inclusive
so the resolution process fails.

it is already divided.

SB when people truly forgive and let go of past sides,
then we see things as WE are in this TOGETHER.

So if you are still dividing as Conservatives did X Y Z
instead of seeing all faults equally on all sides, and good on both sides equally also,
this is already set up to fail.

it is still skewed unequally and begets the same reaction so it fails.

When you can see the good and bad equally on both sides,
and see both are contributing to the problems
and both are contributing to the solutions,
that is where these things can be rsolved.

you are very close, and probably the best that can be expected of people.
most people are going to favor their side and blame the other.
that is human. but that is why we are still in conflict and haven't solve this together.

 

[emilynghiem]

Here is proof
Florida woman survives 45 minutes without pulse - NY Daily News
Not having any brain or physical damage what so ever.
These types miracles happen all the time and they all say the same thing.
That they were on the other side and they were told it was not their time yet and that they had to return.

It's all in their heads. They were even heavily sedated. Maybe that's what happens when the lights start to go out. Your brain races and has flashbacks (life flashed before my eyes) plus we've all heard these stories growing up so when it is our time we are basically wishful thinking/hoping to see St. Peter at the Pearly gates. Grow up.

You are using an excuse and you tell me to grow up?
Going 45 min. without a pulse and having no brain damage is a miracle and even the Doctors are amazed.
How do you explain the deaths on the operating table and patients tell them exactly what was said and done in the operating room. No heart beat and no brain waves These experiences have started studies on the concept of life after death.
When you have no brain waves there is no flashbacks

But because we don't yet have an explanation that is natural, doesn't mean we won't find one and so jumping the gun and calling it concrete evidence for someone or something that didn't directly come down and show people that IT was what was doing what was happening - - - - - is not a very sound practice of discovery.

Same thing with the god.

We've been asking this question a long time.

Cosmogony is any theory concerning the coming into existence (or origin) of either the cosmos (or universe), or the so-called reality of sentient beings.

And we still don't have an explanation yet that is natural. But remember all the things they thought were god turned out to have scientific explanations? Yet still they say WE must be from god. But that's not based on evidence, unless you believe one of the organized religions. Those are all unbelievable lies. So we go back to before the Abraham 3 Religions, back to the same question, what created us?

And you and I know the answer is still we don't know.

I love it when weak minded theists swear they saw a ghost or angel or had an out of body experience or saw an exorcist. LOL.

Yea,

I only entertain these discussions for some intrigue, but I never really find it.

The only way to prove something to me is to reach a certain bar of objective evidence, which is to mean evidence not subjectively fanciful or a twisting of the English language to make a fallacious proof.

I think I'm reiterating, but besides my family and friends - the last things in life that could blow my intrigue like a kid in a candy store would be time travel and the knowledge of existence's origin. And, outlook not so good, so far.

I think you can transcend linear time and space
by prayer and meditation. People have connected
with previous or future generations spiritually on that level.

look up the story about Buckminster Fuller
he had a spiritual experience when he was about to kill himself by drowning himself in the ocean

he realized the purpose of life was to help others
and he started getting visions of the future, the
Bucky Ball/geodesic dome and other insights that changed the future.

so this is not unlike a spiritual experience of transcending time
and seeing into the future to start creating it in the present before it is realized later in time.

 

[Boss]

Boss, your argument is that God created everything (not God created everything apart from Himself); therefore, God created logic.

That does not follow!

When you are asked: "How do you know God created logic, Boss?"

You answer: "Because God created everything."

Nonresponsive!

God did not create everything, Boss, did He? That premise is not rational, is it? It's not sound, is it?

God created everything.
God is omnipotent.
God did not create himself because God doesn't require creation.
God IS... "I AM!"

What does not follow is the idea that God did not create everything, yet God is omnipotent.

That argument is not sound. That argument is not rational.
Furthermore, it's not even in accordance to the beliefs of mainstream Christianity.

As for "knowing" I've already said, we cannot "know" things, we can only believe we know things.
(*Except for you and Justin, who are apparently all-knowing individuals who know more than God, even though God is omniscient!)

 

[G.T.]

It's all in their heads. They were even heavily sedated. Maybe that's what happens when the lights start to go out. Your brain races and has flashbacks (life flashed before my eyes) plus we've all heard these stories growing up so when it is our time we are basically wishful thinking/hoping to see St. Peter at the Pearly gates. Grow up.

You are using an excuse and you tell me to grow up?
Going 45 min. without a pulse and having no brain damage is a miracle and even the Doctors are amazed.
How do you explain the deaths on the operating table and patients tell them exactly what was said and done in the operating room. No heart beat and no brain waves These experiences have started studies on the concept of life after death.
When you have no brain waves there is no flashbacks

But because we don't yet have an explanation that is natural, doesn't mean we won't find one and so jumping the gun and calling it concrete evidence for someone or something that didn't directly come down and show people that IT was what was doing what was happening - - - - - is not a very sound practice of discovery.

Same thing with the god.

We've been asking this question a long time.

Cosmogony is any theory concerning the coming into existence (or origin) of either the cosmos (or universe), or the so-called reality of sentient beings.

And we still don't have an explanation yet that is natural. But remember all the things they thought were god turned out to have scientific explanations? Yet still they say WE must be from god. But that's not based on evidence, unless you believe one of the organized religions. Those are all unbelievable lies. So we go back to before the Abraham 3 Religions, back to the same question, what created us?

And you and I know the answer is still we don't know.

I love it when weak minded theists swear they saw a ghost or angel or had an out of body experience or saw an exorcist. LOL.

Yea,

I only entertain these discussions for some intrigue, but I never really find it.

The only way to prove something to me is to reach a certain bar of objective evidence, which is to mean evidence not subjectively fanciful or a twisting of the English language to make a fallacious proof.

I think I'm reiterating, but besides my family and friends - the last things in life that could blow my intrigue like a kid in a candy store would be time travel and the knowledge of existence's origin. And, outlook not so good, so far.

I think you can transcend linear time and space
by prayer and meditation. People have connected
with previous or future generations spiritually on that level.

look up the story about Buckminster Fuller
he had a spiritual experience when he was about to kill himself by drowning himself in the ocean

he realized the purpose of life was to help others
and he started getting visions of the future, the
Bucky Ball/geodesic dome and other insights that changed the future.

so this is not unlike a spiritual experience of transcending time
and seeing into the future to start creating it in the present before it is realized later in time.

Two things, here.

#1. I've been heavily invested in trying to advance my meditations and lucid dreaming skills. Still not where I'd call myself affluent yet, but also not sure if anything aside from cognitive wiring / firing implications are there as opposed to anything deistic or "spiritual."

#2. Testimonies are lost on me, they're an ineffective way to communicate a phenomena that's already hard to believe EVEN when witnessing it, let alone taking a person's word for it. For me, personally, testimonials are time wasted. I mean, I can maybe pick up relevant information by accident while listening to them, but they don't 'prove' anything to me.