Is THIS Ethical and Representing Religion Well?

[BluePhantom]

I just got back from taking my daughter to see her grandmother for Mother's Day. She lives in Lewiston, Idaho where I grew up...a town of roughly 30,000 with a strong conservative and religious identity. My daughter is 21, sweet as honey, always has a smile on her face, loves to make people laugh, and goes out of her way to help random strangers. She is a strong Republican and has a deep understanding of God and scripture. She is working on her bachelor's degree and plans to pursue a career in medicine because she has a true need to help people. She is a really awesome girl. She is also bi-sexual.

She has an app on her phone where you fill out a profile to meet friends or love interests. You tell about yourself and state what your are looking for (friendship/love...male/female/either....etc). Hers says friendship and either. The app tracks the GPS in your phone and when you go to a new town it lets people in that town know you are there in case anyone wants to meet you. If they do they can send a text to your phone to say hello or whatever.

In two days my daughter got no fewer than 30 texts from people in Lewiston. I want to give you some of the highlights that are fit to post.

"Faggots are not welcome in this town"

"Go back to Portland where dykes are accepted"

"Enjoy hell, dyke c**t"

"Gods hates fags so God hates you too"

"Women don't lick pussy here without getting thrown in the bottom of a lake"

"Queers deserve to die"

"Get out of my town, you dyke bitch"

Those are the mild ones. I know about this because I found her crying in the middle of the night and she showed me the texts and sobbed "they have never even met me". I know 30 assholes do not represent the entire community of 30,000 people but I have to say. It is shit like this that justifies the accusations that liberals make against Republicans and people of faith.

I have never been so humiliated and appalled to call myself a Republican and a Christian and I have never in my life been so ashamed to call that place my hometown. If THAT is Christian and Republican ethics you can call me a spiritual Independent from now on.

I think that account is more fair to impugn “bad christians” than it is to point to republicans. After all, the first 30 states in these past 10 years voted against gay marriage in referendums including California and Oregon. Hardly just republicans in all those cases.

Now, such hate speech is not Christian even if Christians do it. Sounds pretty sinful to me. I am not about to defend it at all. But neither would I personally stop being a Christian because of them. Lots of horrible sinners in the church, along with the saints. On that we cannot disagree. But what does it mean? It does not mean that the religion is fake.

I am not saying the religion is fake. What I am saying is that if the definition of Christianity is THAT, then you can count me out. The God and Jesus I believe in would be irate over that kind of behavior.

Here is what I think you are saying.

Your daughter got anonymously mocked and denigrated by a bunch of ugly bigots who also might refer to themselves as Christian and/or republican.

Your top post was fine to point this out. But to suggest this is the definition of Christianity does not make sense. We know some hide behind the Bible. But we also know who Jesus was, what He stood for, and what millions of his followers try to emulate.

I do not have a problem with others pointing out the folly or hypocrisy of some preachers and many followers. But to use that as a reason to say the Christian faith is phony or of little value would be quite an egregious error. IMO

Also, this has nothing to do with what a republican value is either (but I already said why earlier)

Ok either you are misunderstanding or I am failing to make my point clearly. I am not saying that the Christian faith is phony. I am condemning these people who (probably) call themselves Christian and then engage in behaviors that are blatantly un-Christian. The problem occurs when people who don't know a lot about the faith see this type of behavior by people claiming to be Christian and they assume that all Christians are that way. It's not the faith I am hammering, it is those who claim the faith but don't follow the faith that I am hammering. But these people are ambassadors of their town, their faith, and their political identity. So I am saying that if one is going to define these things by that type of behavior then it becomes much harder for me to define myself using the same terminology. Is that more clear?

 

[BluePhantom]

No, it is not a republican issue, it is a moral issue, and a religious issue, and a recent change in culture issue.

As I pointed out, state referendums began about 10 years ago to vote on if they wanted gay marriage. The first 30 states all voted it down and rather convincingly, including California and Oregon -- liberal states. Look it up. Even your "beloved" president was against gay marriage during his first presidency, wasn't he?

So it was hardly a "republican point of view" only until the most recent years. It was a society point of view, and a religious point of view. No one was coming down hard on gays or gay rights, they thought gay marriage was taking it too far. And the implications of that would be palpable for this nation. Of which I agree.

I do not know what "Jesus/God" you learned about as a kid, but I doubt they were talking about the moral responsibility of Christians to allow gays to marry. If you want to take it further and show the world there are sinners, hypocrites and bigots and mean people who go to church every Sunday, well we sure cannot win that battle. You win.

Sorry, turzovka, it IS a Republican issue...and keep in mind I am a Republican. It is a moral and religious issue as well, but we have only ourselves to blame for our reputation on the issue of gay rights. Here is why. Many people today, myself included, argue in regard to Islam that terrorism is not condoned by the Quran or the Islamic faith. We are screaming for Muslims who are not terrorists to stand up and loudly condemn terrorist activities, but they rarely do. Thus, people assume that they must be ok with it. The same concept applies here. Many conservative Republicans and extremist Christians go bat-shit crazy about gay rights and viciously attack homosexuals. The OP is a perfect example of this. Now I know they only represent the fringe elements of the party and the faith, but they are the ones who get the attention and therefore, they are the one's who create our image. Where are the Republicans who are standing up and saying "this is bullshit. Those extremist views do not represent what our party is all about". I don't hear it very often. Thus, since the rest of the Republicans are not condemning it, they must agree with it.

It is very much a Republican issue and will be until dissenting members of our party stand up and say "no! These assholes screaming and condemning homosexuals and attempting to deny them their constitutional rights is not in keeping with Republican ideals".

 

[turzovka]

I just got back from taking my daughter to see her grandmother for Mother's Day. She lives in Lewiston, Idaho where I grew up...a town of roughly 30,000 with a strong conservative and religious identity. My daughter is 21, sweet as honey, always has a smile on her face, loves to make people laugh, and goes out of her way to help random strangers. She is a strong Republican and has a deep understanding of God and scripture. She is working on her bachelor's degree and plans to pursue a career in medicine because she has a true need to help people. She is a really awesome girl. She is also bi-sexual.

She has an app on her phone where you fill out a profile to meet friends or love interests. You tell about yourself and state what your are looking for (friendship/love...male/female/either....etc). Hers says friendship and either. The app tracks the GPS in your phone and when you go to a new town it lets people in that town know you are there in case anyone wants to meet you. If they do they can send a text to your phone to say hello or whatever.

In two days my daughter got no fewer than 30 texts from people in Lewiston. I want to give you some of the highlights that are fit to post.

"Faggots are not welcome in this town"

"Go back to Portland where dykes are accepted"

"Enjoy hell, dyke c**t"

"Gods hates fags so God hates you too"

"Women don't lick pussy here without getting thrown in the bottom of a lake"

"Queers deserve to die"

"Get out of my town, you dyke bitch"

Those are the mild ones. I know about this because I found her crying in the middle of the night and she showed me the texts and sobbed "they have never even met me". I know 30 assholes do not represent the entire community of 30,000 people but I have to say. It is shit like this that justifies the accusations that liberals make against Republicans and people of faith.

I have never been so humiliated and appalled to call myself a Republican and a Christian and I have never in my life been so ashamed to call that place my hometown. If THAT is Christian and Republican ethics you can call me a spiritual Independent from now on.

I think that account is more fair to impugn “bad christians” than it is to point to republicans. After all, the first 30 states in these past 10 years voted against gay marriage in referendums including California and Oregon. Hardly just republicans in all those cases.

Now, such hate speech is not Christian even if Christians do it. Sounds pretty sinful to me. I am not about to defend it at all. But neither would I personally stop being a Christian because of them. Lots of horrible sinners in the church, along with the saints. On that we cannot disagree. But what does it mean? It does not mean that the religion is fake.

I am not saying the religion is fake. What I am saying is that if the definition of Christianity is THAT, then you can count me out. The God and Jesus I believe in would be irate over that kind of behavior.

Here is what I think you are saying.

Your daughter got anonymously mocked and denigrated by a bunch of ugly bigots who also might refer to themselves as Christian and/or republican.

Your top post was fine to point this out. But to suggest this is the definition of Christianity does not make sense. We know some hide behind the Bible. But we also know who Jesus was, what He stood for, and what millions of his followers try to emulate.

I do not have a problem with others pointing out the folly or hypocrisy of some preachers and many followers. But to use that as a reason to say the Christian faith is phony or of little value would be quite an egregious error. IMO

Also, this has nothing to do with what a republican value is either (but I already said why earlier)

Ok either you are misunderstanding or I am failing to make my point clearly. I am not saying that the Christian faith is phony. I am condemning these people who (probably) call themselves Christian and then engage in behaviors that are blatantly un-Christian. The problem occurs when people who don't know a lot about the faith see this type of behavior by people claiming to be Christian and they assume that all Christians are that way. It's not the faith I am hammering, it is those who claim the faith but don't follow the faith that I am hammering. But these people are ambassadors of their town, their faith, and their political identity. So I am saying that if one is going to define these things by that type of behavior then it becomes much harder for me to define myself using the same terminology. Is that more clear?

Yes, I believe it is more clear.

Reiterating (from my understanding) --- If people like that are going to refer to themselves as Christians towards your daughter or another, then you would be hesitant to refer to yourself as a Christian towards your daughter or another.

I hope I got it. I understand your disgust.

 

[Agit8r]

Ironically, lesbianism is not mentioned in the bible.

 

[turzovka]

No, it is not a republican issue, it is a moral issue, and a religious issue, and a recent change in culture issue.

As I pointed out, state referendums began about 10 years ago to vote on if they wanted gay marriage. The first 30 states all voted it down and rather convincingly, including California and Oregon -- liberal states. Look it up. Even your "beloved" president was against gay marriage during his first presidency, wasn't he?

So it was hardly a "republican point of view" only until the most recent years. It was a society point of view, and a religious point of view. No one was coming down hard on gays or gay rights, they thought gay marriage was taking it too far. And the implications of that would be palpable for this nation. Of which I agree.

I do not know what "Jesus/God" you learned about as a kid, but I doubt they were talking about the moral responsibility of Christians to allow gays to marry. If you want to take it further and show the world there are sinners, hypocrites and bigots and mean people who go to church every Sunday, well we sure cannot win that battle. You win.

Sorry, turzovka, it IS a Republican issue...and keep in mind I am a Republican. It is a moral and religious issue as well, but we have only ourselves to blame for our reputation on the issue of gay rights. Here is why. Many people today, myself included, argue in regard to Islam that terrorism is not condoned by the Quran or the Islamic faith. We are screaming for Muslims who are not terrorists to stand up and loudly condemn terrorist activities, but they rarely do. Thus, people assume that they must be ok with it. The same concept applies here. Many conservative Republicans and extremist Christians go bat-shit crazy about gay rights and viciously attack homosexuals. The OP is a perfect example of this. Now I know they only represent the fringe elements of the party and the faith, but they are the ones who get the attention and therefore, they are the one's who create our image. Where are the Republicans who are standing up and saying "this is bullshit. Those extremist views do not represent what our party is all about". I don't hear it very often. Thus, since the rest of the Republicans are not condemning it, they must agree with it.

It is very much a Republican issue and will be until dissenting members of our party stand up and say "no! These assholes screaming and condemning homosexuals and attempting to deny them their constitutional rights is not in keeping with Republican ideals".

Well if all that were true then I believe you make a legitimate point. However, some of your descriptions are either too vague or included too many assumptions, imo.

I do not see that many incidences in the media where gays are “viciously attacked.” I would also like to think it goes without saying that such events, (even what your daughter had to experience) would be condemned by religious and republicans alike. It may be those in the left media who seek out some quote from a vocal republican politician to brand us all, I don’t know.

The real difference is with gay marriage and also with gay activists demanding we bake them a cake or whatever the heck went on in Indiana, that was a national embarrassment. In these matters, now I can concede republicans part company with democrats and whoever else. And that is all it takes for the media to brand us as homophobes. But these things are far different then basic gay rights and dignity afforded them. And no republicans are denying them that.

It just seems 20 years ago gays were asking for hospital visitation rights, inheritance rights, domestic couple tax benefits, etc. That all sounded legitimate and it was being discussed. However, it never came to a vote and the gay movement raced past all that and went right to demanding gay marriage, nothing less. Why? All those years it was the benefits and rights that was the real issue here, now, none of that is discussed. Now it is marriage or nothing, no doubt, because the real goal is for full validation by the entire society that gay marriage is just as normal and Ok as hetero marriage. That to me is a much loftier goal than just benefits for gay couples. And that is where the biggest problem lies. Now we are discussing a moral issue with religious implications. Christianity could not endorse legalized abortion because it was viewed as a serious affront to the God they reverenced. Gay marriage would be similar. Our formal endorsement would be wrong or an affront to God’s laws. Treating gay people with dignity and rights is different, but providing a formal validation of this arrangement is an act of defilement towards God, I do believe. The pope says “who am I to judge?” on this sin or that sin or the status of one being gay. There I am totally with him and I honor him for that, but I cannot formally endorse the practice by codifying gay marriage either.

 

[BluePhantom]

Treating gay people with dignity and rights is different, but providing a formal validation of this arrangement is an act of defilement towards God, I do believe.

Forgive me if this comes off as abrasive, but how arrogant to suggest that we know the mind of God. How stupid are we going to feel if we get to heaven and God says "actually I have no problem with homosexuals. It's you guys who freaked out over it, not me". If they want to get married, let them get married and trust in God to determine for Himself whether it's legitimate.

 

[turzovka]

Treating gay people with dignity and rights is different, but providing a formal validation of this arrangement is an act of defilement towards God, I do believe.

Forgive me if this comes off as abrasive, but how arrogant to suggest that we know the mind of God. How stupid are we going to feel if we get to heaven and God says "actually I have no problem with homosexuals. It's you guys who freaked out over it, not me". If they want to get married, let them get married and trust in God to determine for Himself whether it's legitimate.

Your opinion and your beliefs are wholly welcome. The fact we disagree strongly on certain measures is perfectly fine. No need for you to feel you have offended me, you have not.

Arrogant for a believer to think we understand much about God? No, I say you are wrong. Just because God is far superior to man in so many ways does not mean He has not communicated to His creation that which He wants us know about Him and about His will for us.

It is extremely evident to me who God is and what He wants. I thank the Catholic Church and all of the documented miracles and words of the saints for much of that. Signs and wonders, those things so many fight so hard against --- it is those very supernatural manifestations that validate the message.

I have no idea what you mean by God possibly saying "I have no problem with homosexuals?" Far too vague. But I am like the pope in that "who am I to judge?" Great wisdom.

But since I am quite certain all sex outside of marriage is sinful of some degree and not something God desires, I can not reasonably be expected to make exceptions for gay sex. But again, I have a lot of feelings for what gay people may have to endure in this difficult world, I believe God may be far more sympathetic to their situation than to some wandering married guy, etc. I just cannot tell my son or the world that gay marriage is ok or good for society. I feel accountable in ways many other do not.

 

[amrchaos]

I am going to let "Republicans" and "Christians" off with this post

No, that is not representative of either your religious beliefs nor your political ideology. That is representative of ignorance and fear.


By the way, You know things could have been worst. Like one of those assholes trying to meet her somewhere. Then again, that is a potential risk for any online friend/dating services.

 

[there4eyeM]

Exposing oneself that way would seem to obviate being offended by any response. It is an open invitation.

 

[PratchettFan]

I just got back from taking my daughter to see her grandmother for Mother's Day. She lives in Lewiston, Idaho where I grew up...a town of roughly 30,000 with a strong conservative and religious identity. My daughter is 21, sweet as honey, always has a smile on her face, loves to make people laugh, and goes out of her way to help random strangers. She is a strong Republican and has a deep understanding of God and scripture. She is working on her bachelor's degree and plans to pursue a career in medicine because she has a true need to help people. She is a really awesome girl. She is also bi-sexual.

She has an app on her phone where you fill out a profile to meet friends or love interests. You tell about yourself and state what your are looking for (friendship/love...male/female/either....etc). Hers says friendship and either. The app tracks the GPS in your phone and when you go to a new town it lets people in that town know you are there in case anyone wants to meet you. If they do they can send a text to your phone to say hello or whatever.

In two days my daughter got no fewer than 30 texts from people in Lewiston. I want to give you some of the highlights that are fit to post.

"Faggots are not welcome in this town"

"Go back to Portland where dykes are accepted"

"Enjoy hell, dyke c**t"

"Gods hates fags so God hates you too"

"Women don't lick pussy here without getting thrown in the bottom of a lake"

"Queers deserve to die"

"Get out of my town, you dyke bitch"

Those are the mild ones. I know about this because I found her crying in the middle of the night and she showed me the texts and sobbed "they have never even met me". I know 30 assholes do not represent the entire community of 30,000 people but I have to say. It is shit like this that justifies the accusations that liberals make against Republicans and people of faith.

I have never been so humiliated and appalled to call myself a Republican and a Christian and I have never in my life been so ashamed to call that place my hometown. If THAT is Christian and Republican ethics you can call me a spiritual Independent from now on.

No matter where you go, a percentage of the population are going to be idiots and cowards. One of the drawbacks of social media is that it exposes you to them. Republicans may not be what you would call LGBT friendly, but the vast majority of them are not idiots. I'm sorry your daughter had to experience that, but we all have to learn the idiots are out there and not let them control us.