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I remember early in their careers when Manning was a stud and Brady was considered to be in over his head. The Colts would be favorites and Brady would find a way to beat themDon't people give jim kelly a lot of credit just for making it to 4 superbowls and losing them? OK, now consider if Brady loses that will be 3 times he lost a Superbowl?There are 3 greatest quarterbacks of all time with 4 Superbowls each Brady, Montana and Bradshaw. If he wins this one, Brady is number one.
So wouldn't you say a QB who made it to 3 superbowls and lost them was pretty damn good? So even if you took away bradys 4 superbowl wins you would admit he's pretty damn good. How many men have been to 3 superbowls? Not many. He's either going to be 4 wins 3 loses or 5 wins 2 loses. Either way that's a lot more winning than anyone else. I'd rather have bradys career than anyone elses
Brady is going to his seventh Superbowl and has been to eleven AFC Championship games and 33 total playoff games
Quite a career
You’re right. He’s not responsible for it but if he had started his career in 1980 instead of 2000, he’d be facing the following:
Defensive backs who could get away with MUCH more in terms of coverage, stick-um, and defensive units that had much more freedom to decapitate the QB. Consider this. In 1980, the total number of passes was 13,705. And there was 627 interceptions.
In 2016, there was nearly 5,000 more pass attempts made by NFL quarterbacks but over 200 fewer interceptions.
Some of this increase in passing is due to expansion and new/replacement teams in Jacksonville, Carolina, Houston and Cleveland but it would stand to reason that the dilution of QBs (it being a far more complex position) would lead to more interceptions, not fewer. Also, it would stand to reason that the field being the same size, the athletes being bagger, stronger, and faster would mean more interceptions etc…
Year PA INT
2016 18298 415
2006 16389 520
1996 15966 542
1986 14469 581
1980 13705 627
Put another way, In 1980, when Joe Montana started making his name…there were 28 teams. The Raiders had 35 interceptions as a team. The Saints had the fewest with 12. In the pass happy 2016 season with about 5,000 more passes, the KC Chiefs lead the league with 18 INTs…6 teams had 10 or fewer grabs.
Clearly, the league favors passers more now than ever before; or at least in recent history.
Brady has been assisted by the expansion more than most as well. Three of the new franchises that found their way into the league are AFC teams, Houston, Cleveland and Jacksonville.
Houston is a -28 on 106 wins and 134 losses
Cleveland (who has NEVER won more than 10 games since reinstatement) is apparently -200 with 88 wins and 200 losses
Jacksonville are a -42: 155-197-0
You think Brady/NE has done well against these guys? You’re right 7 and 0 against the Jags, 6 and 1 against the Texans and 7 and 2 against the Browns (since 1999). Of course, expansion has a tendency to lower the barriers for entry. One could argue that he, a 6th round choice, benefitted from it as well. If the Jags, Panthers, and Browns not been there, 18 more players would have been on the board when Brady was selected…who is to say whether the Patriots had one of them ahead. Further…the AFC east competition for the Patriots has not exactly been a model of consistency. Miami has had 8 coaches since 2000, so has Buffalo. The Gents have had 5. Presumably, that is 21 different playbook, 21 different philosophies, lord knows how many different GMs, PPDs, and coordinators.
Again, let me stress, none of this is something that benefits Brady directly. It’s simply the environment he has prospered in and every other QB had essentially the same opportunity. Brady is great but it is hard to find another QB that has benefitted as much from the environment as TB—or one that has mercilessly dispatched his foes.
I try to avoid comparing statistics between era's. The game has changed significantly
I don't see any benefit from expansion. You still have to finish at the top of the heap....which Brady has done repeatedly
Montana had to beat 27 other teams, Brady had to beat 31 other teams (Vince Lombardi's Packers only had to beat 13 other teams)
So if you can't really compare statistics you have to look at:
Did they win championships?
Did they come up big in the clutch?
Both Brady and Montana did both. I give Brady a slight edge now, and hands down if he beats the Falcons
So if Manning played for New England under Belichick, would he have won more championships.
Guys like Marino, Peyton and even Dan Fouts were great Fantasy Football QBs and put up great numbers. But when considering the GOAT, you gotta have some rings
Peyton won two rings but was not terribly impressive in either win. He is more remembered for getting to the playoffs with one of the best records in the league and then losing at home
I loved Joe Montana, one of the most clutch QBs ever. Even at Notre Dame, he had heart and would not quit. The game was never over as long as Joe had the ball and there was time on the clock
Brady has the same type of mentality. I just think that over the years, and he is now 40, he has eclipsed Montana
So by that rationalization…wouldn’t Robert Horry be considered a “greater” player than Magic Johnson? Magic only has 5 rings; Horry has seven.
Guys like Marino, Peyton and even Dan Fouts were great Fantasy Football QBs and put up great numbers. But when considering the GOAT, you gotta have some rings
Peyton won two rings but was not terribly impressive in either win. He is more remembered for getting to the playoffs with one of the best records in the league and then losing at home
I loved Joe Montana, one of the most clutch QBs ever. Even at Notre Dame, he had heart and would not quit. The game was never over as long as Joe had the ball and there was time on the clock
Brady has the same type of mentality. I just think that over the years, and he is now 40, he has eclipsed Montana
So by that rationalization…wouldn’t Robert Horry be considered a “greater” player than Magic Johnson? Magic only has 5 rings; Horry has seven.
Damn Candycane...you really can be logical. I didn't think it possible.Guys like Marino, Peyton and even Dan Fouts were great Fantasy Football QBs and put up great numbers. But when considering the GOAT, you gotta have some rings
Peyton won two rings but was not terribly impressive in either win. He is more remembered for getting to the playoffs with one of the best records in the league and then losing at home
I loved Joe Montana, one of the most clutch QBs ever. Even at Notre Dame, he had heart and would not quit. The game was never over as long as Joe had the ball and there was time on the clock
Brady has the same type of mentality. I just think that over the years, and he is now 40, he has eclipsed Montana
So by that rationalization…wouldn’t Robert Horry be considered a “greater” player than Magic Johnson? Magic only has 5 rings; Horry has seven.
He will have played in 34 postseason games, not 16...essentially TWO full seasons.No doubt about it now. Being from South Florida I always thought Marino was the best. However, Brady's record speaks for itself. Add the fact that Brady has played in 16 post season playoff games, consider that for a moment that is like playing another full season.
Guys like Marino, Peyton and even Dan Fouts were great Fantasy Football QBs and put up great numbers. But when considering the GOAT, you gotta have some rings
Peyton won two rings but was not terribly impressive in either win. He is more remembered for getting to the playoffs with one of the best records in the league and then losing at home
I loved Joe Montana, one of the most clutch QBs ever. Even at Notre Dame, he had heart and would not quit. The game was never over as long as Joe had the ball and there was time on the clock
Brady has the same type of mentality. I just think that over the years, and he is now 40, he has eclipsed Montana
So by that rationalization…wouldn’t Robert Horry be considered a “greater” player than Magic Johnson? Magic only has 5 rings; Horry has seven.
That is why I don't think the number of championships is the only factor. It is the body of work. Marino was a prolific passer and never won a Super Bowl. If you are surrounded with talent, it is easier to win. A QB isn't responsible for putting together a team.
The thing that makes Brady stand out as a pure passer, is his ability to get the ball out very quickly, but also very accurately. He can be under pressure and deliver a perfect ball to the receiver. It seems to me he is the best at this.Guys like Marino, Peyton and even Dan Fouts were great Fantasy Football QBs and put up great numbers. But when considering the GOAT, you gotta have some rings
Peyton won two rings but was not terribly impressive in either win. He is more remembered for getting to the playoffs with one of the best records in the league and then losing at home
I loved Joe Montana, one of the most clutch QBs ever. Even at Notre Dame, he had heart and would not quit. The game was never over as long as Joe had the ball and there was time on the clock
Brady has the same type of mentality. I just think that over the years, and he is now 40, he has eclipsed Montana
So by that rationalization…wouldn’t Robert Horry be considered a “greater” player than Magic Johnson? Magic only has 5 rings; Horry has seven.
That is why I don't think the number of championships is the only factor. It is the body of work. Marino was a prolific passer and never won a Super Bowl. If you are surrounded with talent, it is easier to win. A QB isn't responsible for putting together a team.
That's just another thing that's impressive about Brady. NE doesn't really have any big "star" players like some other teams. Brady has also renegotiated his salary several times so that the Pats could afford to keep or obtain a player that they need.
Brady has played 33 post season gamesNo doubt about it now. Being from South Florida I always thought Marino was the best. However, Brady's record speaks for itself. Add the fact that Brady has played in 16 post season playoff games, consider that for a moment that is like playing another full season.
No. No player whose career is entirely (or midtly) contained in the Parity Era (post-1994) can be considered Great, never mind the Greatest.
Yes. The SB will be his 34th postseason game.Brady has played 33 post season gamesNo doubt about it now. Being from South Florida I always thought Marino was the best. However, Brady's record speaks for itself. Add the fact that Brady has played in 16 post season playoff games, consider that for a moment that is like playing another full season.
Agreed. That is huge. It is a testament to the entire Patriots organization.No. No player whose career is entirely (or midtly) contained in the Parity Era (post-1994) can be considered Great, never mind the Greatest.
It's more impressive to win continually in the parity era
Back then, you assembled a great team and they could go nowhere without you trading them
Now, you have a seeded draft working against you and free agency. It is what makes the Patriots so great
Belechick has continually dumped players who were still in their prime. Made you think....how could he do that?Agreed. That is huge. It is a testament to the entire Patriots organization.No. No player whose career is entirely (or midtly) contained in the Parity Era (post-1994) can be considered Great, never mind the Greatest.
It's more impressive to win continually in the parity era
Back then, you assembled a great team and they could go nowhere without you trading them
Now, you have a seeded draft working against you and free agency. It is what makes the Patriots so great
It's more impressive to win continually in the parity era
Back then, you assembled a great team and they could go nowhere without you trading them
Now, you have a seeded draft working against you and free agency. It is what makes the Patriots so great
Belechick has continually dumped players who were still in their prime. Made you think....how could he do that?
But he brings up the next in line, makes some adjustments and is back in the playoffs
The NFL players of yesteryear would be laughed out of the leagueIt's more impressive to win continually in the parity era
Back then, you assembled a great team and they could go nowhere without you trading them
Now, you have a seeded draft working against you and free agency. It is what makes the Patriots so great
I disagree, and here's the reason why.... the great players of yesteryear would have been great in ANY era. Today's "stsrs" are so protected and coddled that they wouldn't have made it in the former era.
Along with parity has come a deluge of rules giving all the power to the offense and making any significant contact with an offensive player a 15 yard penalty. We've removed all animosity and real emotion from the game too. It's now about building a machine with interchangeable parts rather than a great team. That in itself makes this era far more pussified.
Belechick has continually dumped players who were still in their prime. Made you think....how could he do that?
But he brings up the next in line, makes some adjustments and is back in the playoffs
That's because he's building a machine, not a team. When he had to build a TEAM back in Cleveland, he didn't do so well.
The NFL players of yesteryear would be laughed out of the league. Too small, too slow and too weak
The NFL players of yesteryear would be laughed out of the league. Too small, too slow and too weak
Let's see Tom Brady get up.after being sacked by Dick Butkus, under the old rules. Let's see Julian Edelman go across the middle knowing that "Night Train" Lane will be there waiting for him.
Nasty makes up for a lot of physical differences. As does today's set of non-contact rules.
