flacaltenn
Diamond Member
Is annexation and one state truly workable?
Its problematic....but then so is every other idea. It is however an approach that hasn't been as fully explored as others. I think on the West Bank front its more viable. On Gaza? Not so much.
Gaza tends to be more militant, the West Bank less so. Any two state solution is going to run into major problems because of Israel's insistence of making Jerusalem its capital, despite the fact that it sits in the center of territory that isn't its own. It would be like the US making Ottawa its capital. And canada saying otherwise.
Such an arrangement necessitates constant conflict as unless everyone visiting is airdropped, they would have to pass through non-israeli territory to get to their own capital. Tel Aviv makes more sense logistically. But the israeli's want Jerusalem.
Well, annex it. The territory and the entire west bank then becomes Israeli territory.Israel would love the territory. Its the source of most of the water used in the lower lands to the west. It includes Jerusalem and restores Israel to much of its Torah era boundaries.
The main issue is the people. Israel wants to maintain a 'uniquely Jewish character'. By annexing the territory they'd also have to annex the people. And that means many, many more Arab Israelis.
However......Arab Israelies are generally pretty peaceful. And Israel is going to have to do something about the people eventually. The longer it waits the more severe the issues will become. And have become.
By making them Arab Israelies with most rights, they remove much of the impetus of rebellion. You might even be able to get Arab financial support for Arab Israeli economic initiatives to improve the employment and education situation of west bank arabs.
Gaza....is a whole different ball of wax. But with Gaza they can literally quarenteen it. Not so much with the West Bank.
I admit, I haven't given serious thought to a one-state solution and have always supported 2 states but now that seems increasingly unlikely.
Questions though remain on rights because Israel wants to maintain it's "uniquely Jewish character" which is increasingly at odds with maintaining a secular government. You state "most rights" - what rights would they not have?
Similar limitations that exist for Arab-Israelies now: lacking access to the highest government offices. The PM for example would beyond them. But 99% of elected offices would be open.Is annexation and one state truly workable?
Its problematic....but then so is every other idea. It is however an approach that hasn't been as fully explored as others. I think on the West Bank front its more viable. On Gaza? Not so much.
Gaza tends to be more militant, the West Bank less so. Any two state solution is going to run into major problems because of Israel's insistence of making Jerusalem its capital, despite the fact that it sits in the center of territory that isn't its own. It would be like the US making Ottawa its capital. And canada saying otherwise.
Such an arrangement necessitates constant conflict as unless everyone visiting is airdropped, they would have to pass through non-israeli territory to get to their own capital. Tel Aviv makes more sense logistically. But the israeli's want Jerusalem.
Well, annex it. The territory and the entire west bank then becomes Israeli territory.Israel would love the territory. Its the source of most of the water used in the lower lands to the west. It includes Jerusalem and restores Israel to much of its Torah era boundaries.
The main issue is the people. Israel wants to maintain a 'uniquely Jewish character'. By annexing the territory they'd also have to annex the people. And that means many, many more Arab Israelis.
However......Arab Israelies are generally pretty peaceful. And Israel is going to have to do something about the people eventually. The longer it waits the more severe the issues will become. And have become.
By making them Arab Israelies with most rights, they remove much of the impetus of rebellion. You might even be able to get Arab financial support for Arab Israeli economic initiatives to improve the employment and education situation of west bank arabs.
Gaza....is a whole different ball of wax. But with Gaza they can literally quarantine it. Not so much with the West Bank.
Jerusalem has always been the jewish capital. Jerusalem had no historical significance to so-called Palestinians until they wanted to make it an issue for a land grab.
name one other country that isn't allowed to maintain it's capital city. should new York be an international city because it's the financial center of the world?
New York doesn't have any religious value. Jeruselum (and Mecca and Medina) do. I don't know if it should be under international rule, but I don't think it should be their capital. Places like that are held under a stewardship for the future - not ownership. Riyadh is the Saudi capital, not Mecca.
Is annexation and one state truly workable?
Its problematic....but then so is every other idea. It is however an approach that hasn't been as fully explored as others. I think on the West Bank front its more viable. On Gaza? Not so much.
Gaza tends to be more militant, the West Bank less so. Any two state solution is going to run into major problems because of Israel's insistence of making Jerusalem its capital, despite the fact that it sits in the center of territory that isn't its own. It would be like the US making Ottawa its capital. And canada saying otherwise.
Such an arrangement necessitates constant conflict as unless everyone visiting is airdropped, they would have to pass through non-israeli territory to get to their own capital. Tel Aviv makes more sense logistically. But the israeli's want Jerusalem.
Well, annex it. The territory and the entire west bank then becomes Israeli territory.Israel would love the territory. Its the source of most of the water used in the lower lands to the west. It includes Jerusalem and restores Israel to much of its Torah era boundaries.
The main issue is the people. Israel wants to maintain a 'uniquely Jewish character'. By annexing the territory they'd also have to annex the people. And that means many, many more Arab Israelis.
However......Arab Israelies are generally pretty peaceful. And Israel is going to have to do something about the people eventually. The longer it waits the more severe the issues will become. And have become.
By making them Arab Israelies with most rights, they remove much of the impetus of rebellion. You might even be able to get Arab financial support for Arab Israeli economic initiatives to improve the employment and education situation of west bank arabs.
Gaza....is a whole different ball of wax. But with Gaza they can literally quarenteen it. Not so much with the West Bank.
I admit, I haven't given serious thought to a one-state solution and have always supported 2 states but now that seems increasingly unlikely.
Questions though remain on rights because Israel wants to maintain it's "uniquely Jewish character" which is increasingly at odds with maintaining a secular government. You state "most rights" - what rights would they not have?
I wouldn't sweat the "uniquely Jewish character" part too much. We have the same discussion here with folks about the "uniquely Christian character" of the USA. One reason that Israel never formalized a Constitution is that they suppressed this secular -- religious battle and moved beyond it. And the number of Arabs, Christians, in the Knesset shows that. I think you do the "2 state" solution and then work to NORMALIZE borders and green cards and migration so that eventually -- in 2340 -- it no longer matters.
Actually, I agree about the "Jewish character" - but there is substantial pushback from the ultra religious groups to increase the role of religion in governance that is at odds with the secular Israeli's. I don't think they have moved beyond it at all and that is problematic in a religious and ethnically pluralistic society.
Coyote --- recognize that it has almost ALWAYS been "ultra-Orthodox" religious Jews who were the biggest opponents of Zionism in the first place. Their belief is that building an Israel wrecks "God's plan" for the Jewish people. And they are patiently for God herself to form a "Jewish nation".. Those Israelis are NOT political in the least. These cats are at WAR with secularists (and other lesser observant Jews) all the time -- but would never give a spit to political notions. There MAY BE members of Knesset that are Orthodox, but the majority of them don't even RECOGNIZE the government of Israel as a valid entity..
Might be in the same boat as the Israeli Christian Palestinian. They are in the "Holy Land" as far as they are concerned --- and Israel isn't even on their map....
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