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The notion that there is a viable "Palestinian" peace proposal on the table is laughable.
I have yet to see one
Oh yes, of course Tinmore !!
The Palestinians and surrounding Arab countries attack Israel in 1948 and in 1967 trying to destroy Israel, then when they lose the war and lose land in the process:
"You stole out land, give it back to us !! "
If they want any of the land back, they will have to use conventional warfare to get it. Nothing will be given back to them.
Yes, that pretty much sums up Israel's official position too. No negotiation, no compromise without being forced. The sad part of this however is that the reckoning will probably come not through conventional warfare, but with a nuclear bomb.
Think about it. The west couldn't even stop North Korea from building a bomb. They are very unlikely to stop Iran. Given Arab feelings for that country, this will probably be a catalyst for more proliferation in the Mid-East. Non-state players are also likely to get their hands on a device. Given ongoing sentiments in the region, it will only be a matter of time then until a catastrophe.
How much better do you think it would be to have a little honest dealing and compromise, rather than millions killed, and your "holy sites" off limits for the next 100 years or so due to radiation?
Before you answer, it's their fault, I urge you to try a little alternative reading of the issues, including, for example, your above statements.
Auteur, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I mean really, what a disgusting statement. What country in their right min would launch a nuke at Israel, knowing full well they will be nuked back, twice as hard. No one would do such a thing.
However, your mindset is nothing new: "Do what the Arabs want or you will get nuked"
I've heard that many times. What a joke.
It's the year 2026. Tension is still high in the Middle East. Iran has proceeded with its nuclear program, despite ongoing threats, and is now armed with 20+ weapons. In response, Saudi Arabia has built its own bombs, with oil money and technical help from Pakistan. Egypt has asked for, and received, a donation of several bombs from Saudi. There are unconfirmed rumors several bombs have been passed to terrorist organizations, or perhaps even plain criminal groups. A small, smuggled in device detonates in Tel Aviv. Israel (and the world) is furious. But where to hit back? Iran? Pakistan? Saudi Arabia? The Gaza Strip? All of them? That would bring total destruction.
Once these weapons proliferate, life will become very complicated, and very dangerous. Israeli intelligence may be good, but there is simply no way to be sure of knowing who might pull off such an act.
Better to start talking now.
Auteur, are you familiar with the offers made to the Palestinians in 2000 and 2008 that would have given them almost the entire west bank?
Yes, that pretty much sums up Israel's official position too. No negotiation, no compromise without being forced. The sad part of this however is that the reckoning will probably come not through conventional warfare, but with a nuclear bomb.
Think about it. The west couldn't even stop North Korea from building a bomb. They are very unlikely to stop Iran. Given Arab feelings for that country, this will probably be a catalyst for more proliferation in the Mid-East. Non-state players are also likely to get their hands on a device. Given ongoing sentiments in the region, it will only be a matter of time then until a catastrophe.
How much better do you think it would be to have a little honest dealing and compromise, rather than millions killed, and your "holy sites" off limits for the next 100 years or so due to radiation?
Before you answer, it's their fault, I urge you to try a little alternative reading of the issues, including, for example, your above statements.
Auteur, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I mean really, what a disgusting statement. What country in their right min would launch a nuke at Israel, knowing full well they will be nuked back, twice as hard. No one would do such a thing.
However, your mindset is nothing new: "Do what the Arabs want or you will get nuked"
I've heard that many times. What a joke.
It's the year 2026. Tension is still high in the Middle East. Iran has proceeded with its nuclear program, despite ongoing threats, and is now armed with 20+ weapons. In response, Saudi Arabia has built its own bombs, with oil money and technical help from Pakistan. Egypt has asked for, and received, a donation of several bombs from Saudi. There are unconfirmed rumors several bombs have been passed to terrorist organizations, or perhaps even plain criminal groups. A small, smuggled in device detonates in Tel Aviv. Israel (and the world) is furious. But where to hit back? Iran? Pakistan? Saudi Arabia? The Gaza Strip? All of them? That would bring total destruction.
Once these weapons proliferate, life will become very complicated, and very dangerous. Israeli intelligence may be good, but there is simply no way to be sure of knowing who might pull off such an act.
Better to start talking now.
Now Auteur is going to tell us how groups like Ethan Allen and the Green Mountain Boys went around suicide bombing innocent English people living in America. She is also going to tell us how these groups would shoot off rockets into civilian areas or how the Americans used their children as human shields against the British.. Hmm, I do wonder if Auteur is on any forum on the Internet arguing for things such as the Tibetans need their freedom from China or is it just one area of the world which she is consumed with because the Jews are involved?Auteur, et al,
Yes, the Arabs have a claim.
(COMMENT)If you want to use that logic, HB67, then Israel's have an even more tenuous claim to the land. "Israeli's" did not exist before 1949. And indeed, the residents of Israel today are a most cosmopolitan and polyglot group, with immigrants (many recent) from around the world. The only common thread is magical belief system, and in fact not all Israelis put much stock in that either. Palestinian Arab roots go back for generations, perhaps centuries, certainly pre-dating 1949. The Jewish claim on the land is based simply on the concensus that they would like to have it. You can dredge up some dubious documents, such as the Balfour Declaraton (modest help), or Rocco's favorite, the Sharif of Mecca (pretty much zero help), or some ancient history (you would be risking ridicule here), but that statement cuts to the heart of the matter.
The Palestinian may have some grievance; valid grievances. But they went about addressing the grievances through a very inappropriate process. The choices they made had consequences. They realized adverse consequences.
Whether we look at the Balfour Declaration, the Faisal-Wiezmann Agreement, the San Remo Conference, the Treaty of Sevres, the Mandate of Palestine, or the General Assembly 181(II), which has been recognized by the Palestinians as internationally legitimate, the Hostile Arab/Palestinian choice of going to war was inappropriate and had consequences that lead them directly to the environment which they enjoy today; and an environment that they essentially demand through their continued hostile actions.
If the Palestinian wants to alter their environment, they have to alter their behaviors.
I don't care how many centuries the Palestinian claim to have been inhabitance of the region, on one second of that time were they sovereign unto themselves. Nothing has change except the opportunity for them to become sovereign, and they rejected it.
Yes, I've heard all the arguments that they didn't get their rightful percentage. Well, life isn't fair. And as long as they focus on their computational percentage, they will loose. It was never the intention of the power-that-be, to make the apportionment on that basis.
Fight if you must. Remain quarantined for as long as you want. But always know, your actions forced your opponent to put you in the time-out box. There is no inherent right for you to challenge the sovereign integrity of the State of Israel. Your occupation is based on the threat you pose to the security of the member state and the region. It is not because Israel wants the land or the people (especially not the people). No one wants the Palestinian; not Lebanon, not Syria, not Jordan, not Egypt and not Saudi Arabia. It is a non-productive, parasitic culture. If the people of the Gaza Strip and West Bank emulated Israel more, they would have been ever so much more better off as a nation and a prosperous people.
PS: I noticed your offhand comment about HRH Faisal (Emir of Mecca). I also noticed that HM Faisal I got his Hashemite Kingdom from the UK and the Palestinian didn't. Hmmm!
Most Respectfully,
R
There is an irony here in that although an American, from a country famous for being born in a rejection of colonialism (not exactly the case, but that's another thread), and a celebrant of self-determination, you now strongly insist on the validity of not only colonial dictates, but one's nearly 100 years old. What do you think- is democracy BS? So you think you are shouldering the white man's burden?
In 1776, Americans had "no right" to a sovereign nation. They were British subjects, and under the authority of the crown. Yet they changed that because they wanted something different. When Palestinians are trying for the same thing today, you want to fall back on imperial dictates, and downplay democracy.
By the way, have you had a look at the PA website yet?
Auteur, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I mean really, what a disgusting statement. What country in their right min would launch a nuke at Israel, knowing full well they will be nuked back, twice as hard. No one would do such a thing.
However, your mindset is nothing new: "Do what the Arabs want or you will get nuked"
I've heard that many times. What a joke.
It's the year 2026. Tension is still high in the Middle East. Iran has proceeded with its nuclear program, despite ongoing threats, and is now armed with 20+ weapons. In response, Saudi Arabia has built its own bombs, with oil money and technical help from Pakistan. Egypt has asked for, and received, a donation of several bombs from Saudi. There are unconfirmed rumors several bombs have been passed to terrorist organizations, or perhaps even plain criminal groups. A small, smuggled in device detonates in Tel Aviv. Israel (and the world) is furious. But where to hit back? Iran? Pakistan? Saudi Arabia? The Gaza Strip? All of them? That would bring total destruction.
Once these weapons proliferate, life will become very complicated, and very dangerous. Israeli intelligence may be good, but there is simply no way to be sure of knowing who might pull off such an act.
Better to start talking now.
I am still hoping the Zionist threat to peace in the ME is gone before 2026. Hopefully, there will be no call for Egyptians to be burning more Israeli flags by 2026.
Yes, that pretty much sums up Israel's official position too. No negotiation, no compromise without being forced. The sad part of this however is that the reckoning will probably come not through conventional warfare, but with a nuclear bomb.
Think about it. The west couldn't even stop North Korea from building a bomb. They are very unlikely to stop Iran. Given Arab feelings for that country, this will probably be a catalyst for more proliferation in the Mid-East. Non-state players are also likely to get their hands on a device. Given ongoing sentiments in the region, it will only be a matter of time then until a catastrophe.
How much better do you think it would be to have a little honest dealing and compromise, rather than millions killed, and your "holy sites" off limits for the next 100 years or so due to radiation?
Before you answer, it's their fault, I urge you to try a little alternative reading of the issues, including, for example, your above statements.
Auteur, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I mean really, what a disgusting statement. What country in their right min would launch a nuke at Israel, knowing full well they will be nuked back, twice as hard. No one would do such a thing.
However, your mindset is nothing new: "Do what the Arabs want or you will get nuked"
I've heard that many times. What a joke.
It's the year 2026. Tension is still high in the Middle East. Iran has proceeded with its nuclear program, despite ongoing threats, and is now armed with 20+ weapons. In response, Saudi Arabia has built its own bombs, with oil money and technical help from Pakistan. Egypt has asked for, and received, a donation of several bombs from Saudi. There are unconfirmed rumors several bombs have been passed to terrorist organizations, or perhaps even plain criminal groups. A small, smuggled in device detonates in Tel Aviv. Israel (and the world) is furious. But where to hit back? Iran? Pakistan? Saudi Arabia? The Gaza Strip? All of them? That would bring total destruction.
Once these weapons proliferate, life will become very complicated, and very dangerous. Israeli intelligence may be good, but there is simply no way to be sure of knowing who might pull off such an act.
Better to start talking now.
With your superior knowledge you should either be in the Heritage Foundation or the looney bin. There is no parity in nuclear warfare.Auteur, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I mean really, what a disgusting statement. What country in their right min would launch a nuke at Israel, knowing full well they will be nuked back, twice as hard. No one would do such a thing.
However, your mindset is nothing new: "Do what the Arabs want or you will get nuked"
I've heard that many times. What a joke.
It's the year 2026. Tension is still high in the Middle East. Iran has proceeded with its nuclear program, despite ongoing threats, and is now armed with 20+ weapons. In response, Saudi Arabia has built its own bombs, with oil money and technical help from Pakistan. Egypt has asked for, and received, a donation of several bombs from Saudi. There are unconfirmed rumors several bombs have been passed to terrorist organizations, or perhaps even plain criminal groups. A small, smuggled in device detonates in Tel Aviv. Israel (and the world) is furious. But where to hit back? Iran? Pakistan? Saudi Arabia? The Gaza Strip? All of them? That would bring total destruction.
Once these weapons proliferate, life will become very complicated, and very dangerous. Israeli intelligence may be good, but there is simply no way to be sure of knowing who might pull off such an act.
Better to start talking now.
One of the basic tenets taught in International Relations is Armament Parity…India got Nukes Pakistan followed…If you look at the world map you will easily notice Parity in weaponry…Israeli’s are naïve to think their Nuclear bombs will protect them. I think they invited parity and Iran is following.
Your assessment of 2026 is a good start , but I say by 2048 the ME will all be armed with nukes, just about when the oil runs out and the ME loses its strategic importance for all the Western Powers and America.
Yes, that pretty much sums up Israel's official position too. No negotiation, no compromise without being forced. The sad part of this however is that the reckoning will probably come not through conventional warfare, but with a nuclear bomb.
Think about it. The west couldn't even stop North Korea from building a bomb. They are very unlikely to stop Iran. Given Arab feelings for that country, this will probably be a catalyst for more proliferation in the Mid-East. Non-state players are also likely to get their hands on a device. Given ongoing sentiments in the region, it will only be a matter of time then until a catastrophe.
How much better do you think it would be to have a little honest dealing and compromise, rather than millions killed, and your "holy sites" off limits for the next 100 years or so due to radiation?
Before you answer, it's their fault, I urge you to try a little alternative reading of the issues, including, for example, your above statements.
Auteur, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I mean really, what a disgusting statement. What country in their right min would launch a nuke at Israel, knowing full well they will be nuked back, twice as hard. No one would do such a thing.
However, your mindset is nothing new: "Do what the Arabs want or you will get nuked"
I've heard that many times. What a joke.
It's the year 2026. Tension is still high in the Middle East. Iran has proceeded with its nuclear program, despite ongoing threats, and is now armed with 20+ weapons. In response, Saudi Arabia has built its own bombs, with oil money and technical help from Pakistan. Egypt has asked for, and received, a donation of several bombs from Saudi. There are unconfirmed rumors several bombs have been passed to terrorist organizations, or perhaps even plain criminal groups. A small, smuggled in device detonates in Tel Aviv. Israel (and the world) is furious. But where to hit back? Iran? Pakistan? Saudi Arabia? The Gaza Strip? All of them? That would bring total destruction.
Once these weapons proliferate, life will become very complicated, and very dangerous. Israeli intelligence may be good, but there is simply no way to be sure of knowing who might pull off such an act.
Better to start talking now.
There ya'l go spreading that horse shit mentality ya'l learn in by gawd west virgini, and probably should preach from the interior of an outhouse, maybe ya'l can tell us why there is no parity in nuclear war-fare?With your superior knowledge you should either be in the Heritage Foundation or the looney bin. There is no parity in nuclear warfare.It's the year 2026. Tension is still high in the Middle East. Iran has proceeded with its nuclear program, despite ongoing threats, and is now armed with 20+ weapons. In response, Saudi Arabia has built its own bombs, with oil money and technical help from Pakistan. Egypt has asked for, and received, a donation of several bombs from Saudi. There are unconfirmed rumors several bombs have been passed to terrorist organizations, or perhaps even plain criminal groups. A small, smuggled in device detonates in Tel Aviv. Israel (and the world) is furious. But where to hit back? Iran? Pakistan? Saudi Arabia? The Gaza Strip? All of them? That would bring total destruction.
Once these weapons proliferate, life will become very complicated, and very dangerous. Israeli intelligence may be good, but there is simply no way to be sure of knowing who might pull off such an act.
Better to start talking now.
One of the basic tenets taught in International Relations is Armament Parity…India got Nukes Pakistan followed…If you look at the world map you will easily notice Parity in weaponry…Israeli’s are naïve to think their Nuclear bombs will protect them. I think they invited parity and Iran is following.
Your assessment of 2026 is a good start , but I say by 2048 the ME will all be armed with nukes, just about when the oil runs out and the ME loses its strategic importance for all the Western Powers and America.
There ya'l go spreading that horse shit mentality ya'l learn in by gawd west virgini, and probably should preach from the interior of an outhouse, maybe ya'l can tell us why there is no parity in nuclear war-fare?With your superior knowledge you should either be in the Heritage Foundation or the looney bin. There is no parity in nuclear warfare.One of the basic tenets taught in International Relations is Armament Parity India got Nukes Pakistan followed If you look at the world map you will easily notice Parity in weaponry Israelis are naïve to think their Nuclear bombs will protect them. I think they invited parity and Iran is following.
Your assessment of 2026 is a good start , but I say by 2048 the ME will all be armed with nukes, just about when the oil runs out and the ME loses its strategic importance for all the Western Powers and America.
I don't think it will be a nuclear attack, but who knows, there is a lot of hate in this area on both sides...It will be like today, a War of Attrition until one sides wears out the other. It may take hundreds of years...and Numbers always prevail...as shown in ME History.Auteur, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I mean really, what a disgusting statement. What country in their right min would launch a nuke at Israel, knowing full well they will be nuked back, twice as hard. No one would do such a thing.
However, your mindset is nothing new: "Do what the Arabs want or you will get nuked"
I've heard that many times. What a joke.
It's the year 2026. Tension is still high in the Middle East. Iran has proceeded with its nuclear program, despite ongoing threats, and is now armed with 20+ weapons. In response, Saudi Arabia has built its own bombs, with oil money and technical help from Pakistan. Egypt has asked for, and received, a donation of several bombs from Saudi. There are unconfirmed rumors several bombs have been passed to terrorist organizations, or perhaps even plain criminal groups. A small, smuggled in device detonates in Tel Aviv. Israel (and the world) is furious. But where to hit back? Iran? Pakistan? Saudi Arabia? The Gaza Strip? All of them? That would bring total destruction.
Once these weapons proliferate, life will become very complicated, and very dangerous. Israeli intelligence may be good, but there is simply no way to be sure of knowing who might pull off such an act.
Better to start talking now.
So Israel is going to surrender to the demands of theArabs because they are at risk of getting nuked, according to you?
Auteur, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I mean really, what a disgusting statement. What country in their right min would launch a nuke at Israel, knowing full well they will be nuked back, twice as hard. No one would do such a thing.
However, your mindset is nothing new: "Do what the Arabs want or you will get nuked"
I've heard that many times. What a joke.
It's the year 2026. Tension is still high in the Middle East. Iran has proceeded with its nuclear program, despite ongoing threats, and is now armed with 20+ weapons. In response, Saudi Arabia has built its own bombs, with oil money and technical help from Pakistan. Egypt has asked for, and received, a donation of several bombs from Saudi. There are unconfirmed rumors several bombs have been passed to terrorist organizations, or perhaps even plain criminal groups. A small, smuggled in device detonates in Tel Aviv. Israel (and the world) is furious. But where to hit back? Iran? Pakistan? Saudi Arabia? The Gaza Strip? All of them? That would bring total destruction.
Once these weapons proliferate, life will become very complicated, and very dangerous. Israeli intelligence may be good, but there is simply no way to be sure of knowing who might pull off such an act.
Better to start talking now.
So Israel is going to surrender to the demands of theArabs because they are at risk of getting nuked, according to you?
You're right when you say, "History takes it's twists and turns". But in my book, world events are shaped by prophecy. And that's a stone, cold fact. It's called destiny.It's the year 2026. Tension is still high in the Middle East. Iran has proceeded with its nuclear program, despite ongoing threats, and is now armed with 20+ weapons. In response, Saudi Arabia has built its own bombs, with oil money and technical help from Pakistan. Egypt has asked for, and received, a donation of several bombs from Saudi. There are unconfirmed rumors several bombs have been passed to terrorist organizations, or perhaps even plain criminal groups. A small, smuggled in device detonates in Tel Aviv. Israel (and the world) is furious. But where to hit back? Iran? Pakistan? Saudi Arabia? The Gaza Strip? All of them? That would bring total destruction.
Once these weapons proliferate, life will become very complicated, and very dangerous. Israeli intelligence may be good, but there is simply no way to be sure of knowing who might pull off such an act.
Better to start talking now.
So Israel is going to surrender to the demands of theArabs because they are at risk of getting nuked, according to you?
This isn't about surrender, but about common sense. You have said yourself that much of your family is in Israel, and many have served in the army. This is the true isssue: no one wants to see there friends and family destroyed. All claim to want peace, but the ongoing violence gets in the way, and promotes ever more animosity.
To try and hang on to occupied territory in the hope of security is, in my opinion, a sad and misguided hope. History has shown that nothing stays the same forever. In 1942, the only salient thing to say about Jews was that they were being exterminated. In 1948, the British Emprire was still a significant factor in world and Palestinain affairs. In 1967, Israel was surpreme. History takes its twists and turns. In 2026, you are going to predict with confidence........what? That you know exactly how things will turn out? Could you have predicted the Suez War? The 73 Yom Kippur War? The Iranian development of nuclear weapons? The shift in American policy towards Israel during the Nixon administration?
What we do know is that violence tends to be self perpetuating, unless outside forces intervene. Are you going to accept intervention, or be content with spiralling levels of violence, until they consume loved ones, and, eventually,perhaps vast areas of Palestine?
Because the anti is going up. Tomorrow, it may only take one terrorist with a suitcase to change world events. This is about fanning the flames of conflict, or being honest about history, something many of the posters on this forum cannot do (or perhaps just don't have enough information to know either way).
Time to be honest if you ask me, and forget the hyperbole.
That's the ultimate goal of Islam.Auteur... seriously? Maybe Israel should just fold its tent entirely to avoid the possibility of future attacks. In fact, let's just give the world over to all those who aspire to global conquest through violence.
Auteur... seriously? Maybe Israel should just fold its tent entirely to avoid the possibility of future attacks. In fact, let's just give the world over to all those who aspire to global conquest through violence.
