Jahi McMath 13 years old

[Katzndogz]

When my husband died he had refused to sign a DNR. I refused to sign one. We were asked. We got so panicked that the hospital wouldn't ressucitate him that I finally taped a sign over his bed saying "no DNR on file". Even so, the hospital tried to sidestep me and asked his daughter to agree to a DNR. She told them that she couldn't do that.

Don't count on a DNR being overlooked. Sometimes they are deliberately not signed. I would expect that with a 13 year old girl the parents refused to sign. Of course the child has no legal capacity to sign anything.

 

[Vox]

When my husband died he had refused to sign a DNR. I refused to sign one. We were asked. We got so panicked that the hospital wouldn't ressucitate him that I finally taped a sign over his bed saying "no DNR on file". Even so, the hospital tried to sidestep me and asked his daughter to agree to a DNR. She told them that she couldn't do that.

Don't count on a DNR being overlooked. Sometimes they are deliberately not signed. I would expect that with a 13 year old girl the parents refused to sign. Of course the child has no legal capacity to sign anything.

But she WAS resuscitated. Her brain death is a result of anoxic injury to the brain, resuscitation was successful ( it applies only to restarting the heart)
================================
on DNR.

It can go the other direction as well.

Do not think that if YOU sign a DNR and have a living will with a wish not to save your life - it will be honored.

The moment you lose consciousness - the next of kin takes the power of the decision to be made.

Read about the DeBakey story. It is actually pretty depressing from the perspective where your will end up legally after you lose your consciousness. The very second

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Been praying for a miraculous recovery. Would be unprecedented and certainly stand out in my mind as some compelling evidence for G-d.

 

[Katzndogz]

When my husband died he had refused to sign a DNR. I refused to sign one. We were asked. We got so panicked that the hospital wouldn't ressucitate him that I finally taped a sign over his bed saying "no DNR on file". Even so, the hospital tried to sidestep me and asked his daughter to agree to a DNR. She told them that she couldn't do that.

Don't count on a DNR being overlooked. Sometimes they are deliberately not signed. I would expect that with a 13 year old girl the parents refused to sign. Of course the child has no legal capacity to sign anything.

But she WAS resuscitated. Her brain death is a result of anoxic injury to the brain, resuscitation was successful ( it applies only to restarting the heart)
================================
on DNR.

It can go the other direction as well.

Do not think that if YOU sign a DNR and have a living will with a wish not to save your life - it will be honored.

The moment you lose consciousness - the next of kin takes the power of the decision to be made.

Read about the DeBakey story. It is actually pretty depressing from the perspective where your will end up legally after you lose your consciousness. The very second

The first thing a hospital is going to do is do whatever is best for the patient. No matter what forms are on file. I've written thousands of Living Wills. I've reviewed as many DNRs. They all contain a provision that includes language that resussitation be ineffective and no extraordinary means be used to keep the patient alive. Resussitatiion in the event a heart stops beating is ordinary means. It has saved countless lives. A Living Will is not something used by a hospital. It is for the use of the next of kin.

I have seen DNRs for very old people near death when nothing at all is done. But for someone young, in generally good health, you bet your booty they will ressucitate.

 

[Vox]

When my husband died he had refused to sign a DNR. I refused to sign one. We were asked. We got so panicked that the hospital wouldn't ressucitate him that I finally taped a sign over his bed saying "no DNR on file". Even so, the hospital tried to sidestep me and asked his daughter to agree to a DNR. She told them that she couldn't do that.

Don't count on a DNR being overlooked. Sometimes they are deliberately not signed. I would expect that with a 13 year old girl the parents refused to sign. Of course the child has no legal capacity to sign anything.

But she WAS resuscitated. Her brain death is a result of anoxic injury to the brain, resuscitation was successful ( it applies only to restarting the heart)
================================
on DNR.

It can go the other direction as well.

Do not think that if YOU sign a DNR and have a living will with a wish not to save your life - it will be honored.

The moment you lose consciousness - the next of kin takes the power of the decision to be made.

Read about the DeBakey story. It is actually pretty depressing from the perspective where your will end up legally after you lose your consciousness. The very second

The first thing a hospital is going to do is do whatever is best for the patient. No matter what forms are on file. I've written thousands of Living Wills. I've reviewed as many DNRs. They all contain a provision that includes language that resussitation be ineffective and no extraordinary means be used to keep the patient alive. Resussitatiion in the event a heart stops beating is ordinary means. It has saved countless lives. A Living Will is not something used by a hospital. It is for the use of the next of kin.

I have seen DNRs for very old people near death when nothing at all is done. But for someone young, in generally good health, you bet your booty they will resuscitate.

there are 3 levels of DNR. at least it is our hospital forms - the ones which I deal with. It used to be automatic - if the patients goes to the OR - DNR is withheld for the OR time, as much what is done there IS under the resuscitation definition.
It was nice and easy.

Now the idiots in the hospital admin decided every time the DNR patient goes to the OR the DNr has to be discussed - what can and what can not be done - which is idiotic by default, because the patient under general anesthesia is already a violation of DNR as the patient is on mechanical ventilation, plus the operative involvement always causes the fluid and chemical resuscitation, even if in a mild form

I suspect this current idiocy will cause more forms, more confusion and more restrictions on part of actually treating the patients instead of dealing with medico-legal idiocy.
Thank God I do not work in the SICU anymore

P.S. I have never seen a DNR order to be violated by a hospital and "to do whatever is best for the patient" - actually I have seen patients, who could have easily survive the ordeal not being resuscitated because of the stupid DNR by a family

 

[Katzndogz]

I expect you are right.

The greatest danger is in having judges make medical decisions.

 

[Vox]

I expect you are right.

The greatest danger is in having judges make medical decisions.

yes, it is.

 

[percysunshine]

Jahi McMath's family, Oakland hospital discussing girl's transfer - CNN.com

A California court hearing concluded Friday with the family of Jahi McMath -- a 13-year-old girl on a ventilator who has been declared dead by doctors -- and a hospital agreeing on a protocol for the release of the girl to another facility.

The hospital says she is dead and wants to pull the plug.
The mother believes she may recover and wants care to continue.

I've been involved in the decision of whether or not to cut off life support for a loved one. It's not an easy choice.

If Jahi was your child, what would you think?

I would take my child home and pay for the electricity to run the ventilator.

The cost of home care is a small fraction of the cost of the ambulance chasing lawyers.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I respectfully disagree. It is their decision, not mine, not the doctors, not the hospital, not the court and not yours.


I honestly do not know the financial aspects in this case. But no, the hospital should not bear the financial burden if the family cannot pay for medical care. My (potentially false) assumption is that the family is paying for medical care.

the moment the patient is medically and legally DEAD as is the case here - the family has no say on the matter.
as it should be, because after the definition of death nobody pays for the extended "care".

If the family wants "care" indefinitely - they can pay for it by themselves, but that is not the case here, as is obvious - the family is poor and even not so poor family won't be able to pay for - what, exactly?

In order to let the family have the say on a legally and medically dead patient the way death is defined has to be changed or the way the payments for such a decision are secured has to be changed.

Honestly, I think the family is confused by the legal team, which has their own plans and goals, because even if they benefit from the money they are getting I do not think they are capable of inventing the scheme where much bigger chunk of money is viewed as possible to obtain.

Even though I think the decision made by the family is incorrect, it is still their decision to make.
If they want to continue paying for "care", let them, or if they can get charitable donations to support the care, let them.
I don't think it is within my right to deny them.

Its only their decision if they can find a place to take her.

But, who will pay the bill? Its a shame but that's what it finally comes down to.

Yes, its possible that they will get donations but care like that is incredibly exorbitant. Even if that little girl got the same kind of following that killer george zimmerman got, that half a million would not support the girl for very long.

I also agree with SOME of what Vox has said and in fact, he/she ripped me a new one when I pointed out that the family most certainly could not pay for what they want.

What I objected to is saying that a parent would do this only for the money. Its a nasty, low down, vicious thing to say and there is no reason to believe its true.

I am ALMOST certain I would pull the plug but since I've never been forced to make that decision, I can't say for sure.

As for my own wishes, I would not want to be kept alive after my brain is gone. And while we're at it, don't put me in a box under the ground either.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Jahi McMath's family, Oakland hospital discussing girl's transfer - CNN.com

A California court hearing concluded Friday with the family of Jahi McMath -- a 13-year-old girl on a ventilator who has been declared dead by doctors -- and a hospital agreeing on a protocol for the release of the girl to another facility.

The hospital says she is dead and wants to pull the plug.
The mother believes she may recover and wants care to continue.

I've been involved in the decision of whether or not to cut off life support for a loved one. It's not an easy choice.

If Jahi was your child, what would you think?

I would take my child home and pay for the electricity to run the ventilator.

The cost of home care is a small fraction of the cost of the ambulance chasing lawyers.

That's a nice sentiment and I can feel what you mean but really, you have no idea what is involved in keeping a dead person "alive". Or, how expensive it is.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

When my husband died he had refused to sign a DNR. I refused to sign one. We were asked. We got so panicked that the hospital wouldn't ressucitate him that I finally taped a sign over his bed saying "no DNR on file". Even so, the hospital tried to sidestep me and asked his daughter to agree to a DNR. She told them that she couldn't do that.

Don't count on a DNR being overlooked. Sometimes they are deliberately not signed. I would expect that with a 13 year old girl the parents refused to sign. Of course the child has no legal capacity to sign anything.

A running joke in hospitals is that one should have a tattoo across one's chest:

"In case of cardiac arrest, do not touch".

DNR's are often ignored.

As I said in an earlier post, all it takes is one family member to object and the hospital will back off.

 

[syrenn]

Jahi McMath's family, Oakland hospital discussing girl's transfer - CNN.com

A California court hearing concluded Friday with the family of Jahi McMath -- a 13-year-old girl on a ventilator who has been declared dead by doctors -- and a hospital agreeing on a protocol for the release of the girl to another facility.

The hospital says she is dead and wants to pull the plug.
The mother believes she may recover and wants care to continue.

I've been involved in the decision of whether or not to cut off life support for a loved one. It's not an easy choice.

If Jahi was your child, what would you think?

i would pull the plugs. I have had this discussion with several loved ones...and we all agree.... to pull the plugs.

 

[oreo]

Jahi McMath's family, Oakland hospital discussing girl's transfer - CNN.com

A California court hearing concluded Friday with the family of Jahi McMath -- a 13-year-old girl on a ventilator who has been declared dead by doctors -- and a hospital agreeing on a protocol for the release of the girl to another facility.

The hospital says she is dead and wants to pull the plug.
The mother believes she may recover and wants care to continue.

I've been involved in the decision of whether or not to cut off life support for a loved one. It's not an easy choice.

If Jahi was your child, what would you think?

This is one of the most tragic things--it's almost unimaginable. A teenage girl goes in to have her tonsils removed--wakes up from the anesthesia--eats ice cream--and then goes into a coma. And now is declared brain dead.

I feel so bad for the parents and family of this young girl. And in reality who can really say as a parent what one would do in the same circumstance?

But unfortunately brain dead, is brain dead and there is no fixing that.

My sympathies go out to the family of this young girl.

 

[MeBelle]

Jahi McMath's family, Oakland hospital discussing girl's transfer - CNN.com

A California court hearing concluded Friday with the family of Jahi McMath -- a 13-year-old girl on a ventilator who has been declared dead by doctors -- and a hospital agreeing on a protocol for the release of the girl to another facility.

The hospital says she is dead and wants to pull the plug.
The mother believes she may recover and wants care to continue.

I've been involved in the decision of whether or not to cut off life support for a loved one. It's not an easy choice.

If Jahi was your child, what would you think?

i would pull the plugs. I have had this discussion with several loved ones...and we all agree.... to pull the plugs.

Ditto.

 

[Noomi]

i would pull the plugs. I have had this discussion with several loved ones...and we all agree.... to pull the plugs.

Same here. I've had the discussion with my family. If I was brain dead, they would remove life support. If I was in a vegetative state, they'd give me three months to start recovering, if not, they remove feeding tubes. Same goes for my mum and dad. We've all agreed.