Jesus' true teachings.

[Chuckt]

We always existed. We always will. The question is: in what form?

The lie of the serpent was that "You shall not surely die". I've already quoted the verse where God confirms that man has become as the gods knowing good from evil.

Your verses are irrelevant. Dueteronomy because no one has claimed to speak in the name of other gods. Isaiah because it's out of context. He is the only God of Israel. There will be no others formed.

Doesn't address the fact that we are joint heirs with Christ and inherit all the Father has. Doesn't address that we have become partakers of the Divine Nature. and anything else I've pointed out. etc.

Sorry. I was put a week behind in answering you.

Are mighty or exalted men gods?

1.Scripture never says explicitly that men are gods

2.Powerful, mighty men are explicitly said not to be gods: Ezek. 28:2, 28:9; Isa. 31:3; 2 Thess. 2:4

3.Men and God are opposite, exclusive categories: Num. 23:19; Isa. 31:3; Ezek. 28:2; Hosea 11:9; Matt. 19:26; John 10:33; Acts 12:22; 1 Cor. 14:2

4.Moses was "as God," not really a god: Ex. 4:16; 7:1

5.Ezek. 32:21 speaks of warriors or soldiers as "mighty gods," but in context they are so regarded by their pagan nations, not by God or Israel; cf. Ezek. 28:2, 28:9

6.The elohim before whom accused stood in Exodus was God Himself, not judges, as many translations incorrectly render: Ex. 22:8-9, 22:28; compare Deut. 19:17

7.The use of elohim in Psalm 82:1, probably in reference to wicked judges, as cited by Jesus in John 10:34-36, does not mean that men really can be gods.

a.It is Asaph, not the Lord, who calls the judges elohim in Psa. 82:1, 82:6. This is important, even though we agree that Psa. 82 is inspired.

b.Asaph's meaning is not "Although you are gods, you will die like men," but rather "I called you gods, but in fact you will all die like the men that you really are"

c.The Psalmist was no more saying that wicked judges were truly gods than he was saying that they were truly "sons of the Most High" (Psa 82:6 b)

d.Thus, Psa. 82:1 calls the judges elohim in irony. They had quite likely taken their role in judgment (cf. point 5 above) to mean they were elohim, or gods, and Asaph's message is that these so-called gods were mere men who would die under the judgment of the true elohim (vss. Psa. 82:1-2, 82:7-8)

e.Christ's use of this passage in John 10:34-36 does not negate the above interpretation of Psalm 82

f.The words, "The Scripture cannot be broken," means "the Scripture cannot go without having some ultimate fulfillment" (cf. John 7:23; Matt. 5:17). Thus Jesus is saying that what the OT judges were called in irony, He is in reality; He does what they could not do, and is what they could never be (see the Adam-Christ contrasts in Rom. 5:12-21 and 1 Cor. 15:21-22, 15:45 for a similar use of OT Scripture)

g.The clause, "those against whom the word of God came" (John 10:35) shows that this "word" was a word of judgment against the so-called gods; which shows that they were false gods, not really gods at all

h.Finally, these wicked men were certainly not "godlike" or "divine" by nature, so that in any case the use of elohim to refer to them must be seen as figurative, not literal

8.Even if men were gods (which they are not), this would be irrelevant to Jesus, since He was God as a preexistent spirit before creation: John 1:1

Text Commentaries: Robert Bowman, Jr. (Blue Letter Bible: The Trinity)

 

[Avatar4321]

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this. I think your interpretation makes no sense in the context of the verses. I understand your interpretation. And I understand there are commentators that agree with that interpretation. But In my humble opinion, it's a lot of mental gymnastics to avoid the clear meaning of the verses.

With that being said, I think the only way to settle it is with an appeal to the Lord. I've taken the issue to prayer before the Lord, however, I have no problem asking again. But the scriptures make it very clear that the purpose of Christ becoming made flesh is so that we could become like Him. I don't think the Lord is going to say anything different. He may. But I don't know that He will. He is free to do as He pleases.

Let the Lord be the judge of who is correct. And in the meantime let us continue to encourage one another seek the Lord and obey His counsels.

 

[CMike]

There is and only will be one G-D.

Hear O Israel, the L-rd is our G-D, the L-ord is ONE (Deut)

I am the Lord, and there is no other; apart from Me there is no God. ...so that from the rising of the Sun to the place of its setting men may know there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other. (Isaiah, 45:5-6)

...I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me. (Isaiah, 46:9)

... so that all the peoples of the Earth may know that the Lord is God and that there is no other. (1 Kings, 8:60)

Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the Earth; for I am God, and there is no other. (Isaiah, 45:22)

This is what the Lord says…"Surely God is with you, and there is no other; there is no other God." (Isaiah, 45:14)

...The Lord our God, the Lord is one. (Deuteronomy, 6:4)

You are my witness--the words of Hashem--and My servant, whom I have chosen, so that you will know and believe in Me, and understand that I am He; before me nothing was created by a G-D, and after Me it shall not be (Isaiah 43:10)

... O Lord; no deeds can compare with Yours. All the nations You have made will come and worship before You, O Lord; they will bring glory to Your name. For You are great and do marvelous deeds; You alone are God. (Psalms, 86:8-10)

O Lord ...You alone are God over all the kingdoms of the Earth. You have made heaven and Earth. (Isaiah, 37:16)

... all kingdoms on Earth may know that You alone, O Lord, are God. (Isaiah, 37:20)

This is what the Lord says—your Redeemer, Who formed you in the womb: I am the Lord, Who has made all things, Who alone stretched out the heavens, Who spread out the Earth by Myself. (Isaiah, 44:24)

Since ancient times no one has heard, no ear has perceived, no eye has seen any God besides You, who acts on behalf of those who wait for Him. (Isaiah, 64:4)

For this is what the Lord says—He Who created the heavens, He is God; He Who fashioned and made the Earth, He founded it; He did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited—He says: "I am the Lord, and there is no other." (Isaiah, 45:18)

...Was it not I, the Lord? And there is no god apart from Me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but Me. (Isaiah, 45:21)

See now that I Myself am He! There is no god besides Me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal... (Deuteronomy, 32:39)

...you may know there is no one like the Lord our God. (Exodus, 8:10)

O Lord... there is no god like You in heaven above or on Earth below... (1 Kings, 8:23; 2 Chronicles, 6:14)

Then Asa called to the Lord his God and said, "Lord, there is no one like You to help the powerless against the mighty..."(2 Chronicles, 14:11)

I, even I, am the Lord, and apart from Me there is no savior. (Isaiah, 43:11)

There is no one like You, O Lord, and there is no god but You, as we have heard with our own ears. (1 Chronicles, 17:20; 2 Samuel, 7:22)

There is no one holy like the Lord; there is no one besides You; there is no strength like our God. (1 Samuel, 2:2)

His wisdom is profound, His power is vast. Who has resisted Him and come out unscathed. (Job, 9:4)

For You are great and do marvelous deeds; You alone are God. (Psalms, 86:10)

Praise Him for His acts of power; praise Him for His surpassing greatness. (Psalms, 150:2)

You alone are the Lord. You made the heavens, even the highest heavens, and all their starry host, the Earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them. You give life to everything, and the multitudes of heaven worship You. (Nehemiah, 9:6)

They will say of Me, "In the Lord alone are righteousness and strength."... (Isaiah, 45:24)

You were shown these things so that you might know that the Lord is God; besides Him there is no other. (Deuteronomy, 4:35)

... Is there any god besides Me? No, there is no other strong one; I know not one. (Isaiah, 44:8)

This is what the Lord says—I am the first and I am the last; apart from Me there is no god. (Isaiah, 44:6)

Who has done this and carried it through, calling forth the generations from the beginning? I, the Lord—with the first of them and with the last—I am He." (Isaiah, 41:4)

 

[CMike]

The Bible is very clear that those who recieve the word are gods. It's clear that we become joint heirs with Christ everything the Father has. That we recieve power and dominion. It clearly teaches that we become partakers of the Divine Nature because of the Atonement. And that when Christ appears, we will see that we are like Him.

"As man now is, God once was;
As God now is, man can become."

That's the central message of the Bible.

Why did you quit the last debate?

Deuteronomy 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Only 1 gets a capitol G--God=YHWH(Jehovah) --- small capitol g is not calling them God. It means more like carrying out the will of the true God---like Moses was called--god( small g) It was not calling Moses the almighty God. nor would he ever become an almighty God--Gods word teaches 1 God---the end.

Moses wasn't called G-D.

Elokim can also mean a great person.

The context makes a difference.

 

[naomibee]

There is and only will be one G-D.

Hear O Israel, the L-rd is our G-D, the L-ord is ONE (Deut)

I am the Lord, and there is no other; apart from Me there is no God. ...so that from the rising of the Sun to the place of its setting men may know there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other. (Isaiah, 45:5-6)

...I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me. (Isaiah, 46:9)

... so that all the peoples of the Earth may know that the Lord is God and that there is no other. (1 Kings, 8:60)

Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the Earth; for I am God, and there is no other. (Isaiah, 45:22)

This is what the Lord says…"Surely God is with you, and there is no other; there is no other God." (Isaiah, 45:14)

...The Lord our God, the Lord is one. (Deuteronomy, 6:4)

You are my witness--the words of Hashem--and My servant, whom I have chosen, so that you will know and believe in Me, and understand that I am He; before me nothing was created by a G-D, and after Me it shall not be (Isaiah 43:10)

... O Lord; no deeds can compare with Yours. All the nations You have made will come and worship before You, O Lord; they will bring glory to Your name. For You are great and do marvelous deeds; You alone are God. (Psalms, 86:8-10)

O Lord ...You alone are God over all the kingdoms of the Earth. You have made heaven and Earth. (Isaiah, 37:16)

... all kingdoms on Earth may know that You alone, O Lord, are God. (Isaiah, 37:20)

This is what the Lord says—your Redeemer, Who formed you in the womb: I am the Lord, Who has made all things, Who alone stretched out the heavens, Who spread out the Earth by Myself. (Isaiah, 44:24)

Since ancient times no one has heard, no ear has perceived, no eye has seen any God besides You, who acts on behalf of those who wait for Him. (Isaiah, 64:4)

For this is what the Lord says—He Who created the heavens, He is God; He Who fashioned and made the Earth, He founded it; He did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited—He says: "I am the Lord, and there is no other." (Isaiah, 45:18)

...Was it not I, the Lord? And there is no god apart from Me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but Me. (Isaiah, 45:21)

See now that I Myself am He! There is no god besides Me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal... (Deuteronomy, 32:39)

...you may know there is no one like the Lord our God. (Exodus, 8:10)

O Lord... there is no god like You in heaven above or on Earth below... (1 Kings, 8:23; 2 Chronicles, 6:14)

Then Asa called to the Lord his God and said, "Lord, there is no one like You to help the powerless against the mighty..."(2 Chronicles, 14:11)

I, even I, am the Lord, and apart from Me there is no savior. (Isaiah, 43:11)

There is no one like You, O Lord, and there is no god but You, as we have heard with our own ears. (1 Chronicles, 17:20; 2 Samuel, 7:22)

There is no one holy like the Lord; there is no one besides You; there is no strength like our God. (1 Samuel, 2:2)

His wisdom is profound, His power is vast. Who has resisted Him and come out unscathed. (Job, 9:4)

For You are great and do marvelous deeds; You alone are God. (Psalms, 86:10)

Praise Him for His acts of power; praise Him for His surpassing greatness. (Psalms, 150:2)

You alone are the Lord. You made the heavens, even the highest heavens, and all their starry host, the Earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them. You give life to everything, and the multitudes of heaven worship You. (Nehemiah, 9:6)

They will say of Me, "In the Lord alone are righteousness and strength."... (Isaiah, 45:24)

You were shown these things so that you might know that the Lord is God; besides Him there is no other. (Deuteronomy, 4:35)

... Is there any god besides Me? No, there is no other strong one; I know not one. (Isaiah, 44:8)

This is what the Lord says—I am the first and I am the last; apart from Me there is no god. (Isaiah, 44:6)

Who has done this and carried it through, calling forth the generations from the beginning? I, the Lord—with the first of them and with the last—I am He." (Isaiah, 41:4)

I liked this.

 

[theword]

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this. I think your interpretation makes no sense in the context of the verses. I understand your interpretation. And I understand there are commentators that agree with that interpretation. But In my humble opinion, it's a lot of mental gymnastics to avoid the clear meaning of the verses.

With that being said, I think the only way to settle it is with an appeal to the Lord. I've taken the issue to prayer before the Lord, however, I have no problem asking again. But the scriptures make it very clear that the purpose of Christ becoming made flesh is so that we could become like Him. I don't think the Lord is going to say anything different. He may. But I don't know that He will. He is free to do as He pleases.

Let the Lord be the judge of who is correct. And in the meantime let us continue to encourage one another seek the Lord and obey His counsels.

I bet our Creator is happy that you let Him be free to make His own decisions. Most Christians make decisions for Him by enslaving other sinners to their own interpretations and rules.

 

[Bowman]

The Bible is very clear that those who recieve the word are gods. It's clear that we become joint heirs with Christ everything the Father has. That we recieve power and dominion. It clearly teaches that we become partakers of the Divine Nature because of the Atonement. And that when Christ appears, we will see that we are like Him.

"As man now is, God once was;
As God now is, man can become."

That's the central message of the Bible.

The entire discourse addresses mere mortals, not gods.

• They know not
• They understand not
• They walk in darkness
• They are people
• They will die
• They will fall

Jesus quotes this Psalm as He directly addresses the Jews who wish to stone Him.

Most assuredly, neither in the OT or the NT can this be construed as relating to gods – rather it applies to the ignorant Jews.