Jewish space plays host to spirited debate over whether Israel is a democracy

[editec]

More or less a democratic nation.

Its about as democratic as say South Africa was before the Apartheid system was broken down

 

[georgephillip]

Israel is certainly more democratic than any of her neighbors, but she's fallen far short of what some of her "Founders" envisioned:

Israel Without Zionism...

 

[Hossfly]

The contradiction between an ethnic state and democracy is just as obvious in Saudi Arabia as it is in Israel to me, Hoss. What's your problem with holding Jews to the same standards as the rest of the world?

What is your problem, Georgie Boy, that you can't recognize that the Arabs have it much better than in the Arab countries. For instance, I once read that the head of Cardiology in one of the Israeli hospitals was an Arab woman. Can you match that in any Arab country? As far as standards are concerned, it seems that many people in the world have held Israel to higher standards, and they still have a problem with Israel because of their innate hatred of the Jews, like Georgie Boy here, as much as he denies it. No country is perfect; and no matter what Israel does to help all their citizens, there will be those like Georgie Boy criticizing.

 

[georgephillip]

The contradiction between an ethnic state and democracy is just as obvious in Saudi Arabia as it is in Israel to me, Hoss. What's your problem with holding Jews to the same standards as the rest of the world?

What is your problem, Georgie Boy, that you can't recognize that the Arabs have it much better than in the Arab countries. For instance, I once read that the head of Cardiology in one of the Israeli hospitals was an Arab woman. Can you match that in any Arab country? As far as standards are concerned, it seems that many people in the world have held Israel to higher standards, and they still have a problem with Israel because of their innate hatred of the Jews, like Georgie Boy here, as much as he denies it. No country is perfect; and no matter what Israel does to help all their citizens, there will be those like Georgie Boy criticizing.

Are you yearning for that Rapture, Hossie?

"The easiest solution of the problem would have been, of course, a decisive military victory by either side. If Israel could achieve a military victory big enough to compel the Arabs to accept an Israeli diktat, this would be one answer.

"But Israel would have to conquer the whole Arab world, an impossible feat even with the unquestioned superiority of the Israeli Army; the brilliant victory in the Six-Day War has now proved that one cannot dictate peace by military means.

"As General Dayan said four months after the war, 'If anyone thought the Arabs had learned a lesson, he was mistaken.' If the Arabs could conquer and annihilate Israel, that certainly would be a clear-cut solution. But my Arab partner at the dinner table readily agreed that no such possibility exists.

"The military superiority of Israel will remain for a long time, and new weapons systems eventually will be introduced in the Middle East which will make it virtually certain that the destruction of Israel will be accompanied by the destruction of the Arab centers of population, thus setting the Region back at least two thousand years (and probably causing a thermonuclear holocaust all over the world)"

Pax Semitica by Uri Avnery

Your constant defense of all crimes committed by Israel in the Occupied Territories says to me you are praying for Armageddon?

 

[Hossfly]

The contradiction between an ethnic state and democracy is just as obvious in Saudi Arabia as it is in Israel to me, Hoss. What's your problem with holding Jews to the same standards as the rest of the world?

What is your problem, Georgie Boy, that you can't recognize that the Arabs have it much better than in the Arab countries. For instance, I once read that the head of Cardiology in one of the Israeli hospitals was an Arab woman. Can you match that in any Arab country? As far as standards are concerned, it seems that many people in the world have held Israel to higher standards, and they still have a problem with Israel because of their innate hatred of the Jews, like Georgie Boy here, as much as he denies it. No country is perfect; and no matter what Israel does to help all their citizens, there will be those like Georgie Boy criticizing.

Are you yearning for that Rapture, Hossie?

"The easiest solution of the problem would have been, of course, a decisive military victory by either side. If Israel could achieve a military victory big enough to compel the Arabs to accept an Israeli diktat, this would be one answer.

"But Israel would have to conquer the whole Arab world, an impossible feat even with the unquestioned superiority of the Israeli Army; the brilliant victory in the Six-Day War has now proved that one cannot dictate peace by military means.

"As General Dayan said four months after the war, 'If anyone thought the Arabs had learned a lesson, he was mistaken.' If the Arabs could conquer and annihilate Israel, that certainly would be a clear-cut solution. But my Arab partner at the dinner table readily agreed that no such possibility exists.

"The military superiority of Israel will remain for a long time, and new weapons systems eventually will be introduced in the Middle East which will make it virtually certain that the destruction of Israel will be accompanied by the destruction of the Arab centers of population, thus setting the Region back at least two thousand years (and probably causing a thermonuclear holocaust all over the world)"

Pax Semitica by Uri Avnery

Your constant defense of all crimes committed by Israel in the Occupied Territories says to me you are praying for Armageddon?

Don't get your hopes up, Georgie. Things won't start poppin' until the Third Temple gets built. Go take a looooong vacation. I'll let you know.

 

[georgephillip]

Like Napoleon, much of the Zionist leadership soon revealed itself to be no different than that they claim to oppose. Israel, embracing the Zionist vision of ethnic nationalism, complete with oppression and a campaign of ethnic cleansing, is fundamentally no different in principle than what the Jews decried in Germany. They are back to their old habits, just like they did the first time they invaded, when the land was called Canaan.

Zionists believe in a democracy in the same way as segregationists and anti-suffragists did- they believe in democracy for those they believe should have a say and agree with their views, opposing equal universal representation which would include those they don't feel should have their voices heard or who would oppose their views and agenda.

I'm reminded of the 'Voter Colonel' who 'purifies democracy' in a certain Red Dwarf episode.

Funny. That reminds me of Human Nature. The World is not perfect. The struggle begins internally.

The struggle may begin internally but those with the most money have little problem with an imperfect world. In fact, their fortunes depend on eternal war and the private creation of money.

 

[MHunterB]

Well, that's a refreshing change! Georgie wants to define everyone by their wealth....... now that's a truly VALUABLE measure, LOL!

I think all Communists and 'Marxists' are assholes, idiots - or worse.

 

[Hossfly]

Like Napoleon, much of the Zionist leadership soon revealed itself to be no different than that they claim to oppose. Israel, embracing the Zionist vision of ethnic nationalism, complete with oppression and a campaign of ethnic cleansing, is fundamentally no different in principle than what the Jews decried in Germany. They are back to their old habits, just like they did the first time they invaded, when the land was called Canaan.

Zionists believe in a democracy in the same way as segregationists and anti-suffragists did- they believe in democracy for those they believe should have a say and agree with their views, opposing equal universal representation which would include those they don't feel should have their voices heard or who would oppose their views and agenda.

I'm reminded of the 'Voter Colonel' who 'purifies democracy' in a certain Red Dwarf episode.

Funny. That reminds me of Human Nature. The World is not perfect. The struggle begins internally.

The struggle may begin internally but those with the most money have little problem with an imperfect world. In fact, their fortunes depend on eternal war and the private creation of money.

Does that mean AIPAC creates prosperity?

 

[georgephillip]

Funny. That reminds me of Human Nature. The World is not perfect. The struggle begins internally.

The struggle may begin internally but those with the most money have little problem with an imperfect world. In fact, their fortunes depend on eternal war and the private creation of money.

Does that mean AIPAC creates prosperity?

Of course not...the Federal Reserve does.
(for Wall Street)

 

[Hossfly]

The struggle may begin internally but those with the most money have little problem with an imperfect world. In fact, their fortunes depend on eternal war and the private creation of money.

Does that mean AIPAC creates prosperity?

Of course not...the Federal Reserve does.
(for Wall Street)

Fancy that! I learn something new every 10 years or so! Thanks, George.

 

[georgephillip]

Does that mean AIPAC creates prosperity?

Of course not...the Federal Reserve does.
(for Wall Street)

Fancy that! I learn something new every 10 years or so! Thanks, George.

Your welcome, Hoss.
On a somewhat related topic, what've you learned about US Grant's General Orders No. 11?

"General Order No. 11 was the title of an order issued by Major-General Ulysses S. Grant on December 17, 1862, during the American Civil War. It ordered the expulsion of all Jews in his military district, comprising areas of Tennessee, Mississippi, and Kentucky.

"The order was issued as part of a Union campaign against a black market in Southern cotton, which Grant thought was being run 'mostly by Jews and other unprincipled traders.'[1] While permitting some trade, the United States licensed traders through the United States Army, which created a market for unlicensed one.

"Union military commanders in the South were responsible for administering the trade licenses and trying to control the black market in Southern cotton, as well as for conducting the war. Grant issued the order in an effort to reduce corruption.

"Following protests from Jewish community leaders and an outcry by members of Congress and the press, President Abraham Lincoln ordered this revoked a few weeks later.

"During his campaign for the presidency in 1868, Grant repudiated the order, saying that it had been drafted by a subordinate and that he had signed it without reading it during warfare."

General Order No. 11 (1862) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Should we kick this one around in the History Forum?

 

[irosie91]

Israel is certainly more democratic than any of her neighbors, but she's fallen far short of what some of her "Founders" envisioned:

Israel Without Zionism...

all of scientific study is based on "IN RELATION TO" NOTHING can be
evaluated in a vacuum. In fact ----even simply VELOCITY cannot be
determined independently (see heisenberg). Within its environment--
Israel is THE MOST DEMOCRATIC NATION ----<<< that is the answer.

within my enviornment of women averaging 5'5" I am short
in stature so? When I hang around with women from
south east asia----I AM OF AN AVERAGE HEIGHT

SOCIAL VISION? name one country that does not fall short of its
VISIONARIES

 

[Hossfly]

Of course not...the Federal Reserve does.
(for Wall Street)

Fancy that! I learn something new every 10 years or so! Thanks, George.

Your welcome, Hoss.
On a somewhat related topic, what've you learned about US Grant's General Orders No. 11?

"General Order No. 11 was the title of an order issued by Major-General Ulysses S. Grant on December 17, 1862, during the American Civil War. It ordered the expulsion of all Jews in his military district, comprising areas of Tennessee, Mississippi, and Kentucky.

"The order was issued as part of a Union campaign against a black market in Southern cotton, which Grant thought was being run 'mostly by Jews and other unprincipled traders.'[1] While permitting some trade, the United States licensed traders through the United States Army, which created a market for unlicensed one.

"Union military commanders in the South were responsible for administering the trade licenses and trying to control the black market in Southern cotton, as well as for conducting the war. Grant issued the order in an effort to reduce corruption.

"Following protests from Jewish community leaders and an outcry by members of Congress and the press, President Abraham Lincoln ordered this revoked a few weeks later.

"During his campaign for the presidency in 1868, Grant repudiated the order, saying that it had been drafted by a subordinate and that he had signed it without reading it during warfare."

General Order No. 11 (1862) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Should we kick this one around in the History Forum?

WTF does GO#11 have to do with the thread topic?

 

[georgephillip]

Israel is certainly more democratic than any of her neighbors, but she's fallen far short of what some of her "Founders" envisioned:

Israel Without Zionism...

all of scientific study is based on "IN RELATION TO" NOTHING can be
evaluated in a vacuum. In fact ----even simply VELOCITY cannot be
determined independently (see heisenberg). Within its environment--
Israel is THE MOST DEMOCRATIC NATION ----<<< that is the answer.

within my enviornment of women averaging 5'5" I am short
in stature so? When I hang around with women from
south east asia----I AM OF AN AVERAGE HEIGHT

SOCIAL VISION? name one country that does not fall short of its
VISIONARIES

Much like the VACUUM between your EARS.

 

[georgephillip]

Fancy that! I learn something new every 10 years or so! Thanks, George.

Your welcome, Hoss.
On a somewhat related topic, what've you learned about US Grant's General Orders No. 11?

"General Order No. 11 was the title of an order issued by Major-General Ulysses S. Grant on December 17, 1862, during the American Civil War. It ordered the expulsion of all Jews in his military district, comprising areas of Tennessee, Mississippi, and Kentucky.

"The order was issued as part of a Union campaign against a black market in Southern cotton, which Grant thought was being run 'mostly by Jews and other unprincipled traders.'[1] While permitting some trade, the United States licensed traders through the United States Army, which created a market for unlicensed one.

"Union military commanders in the South were responsible for administering the trade licenses and trying to control the black market in Southern cotton, as well as for conducting the war. Grant issued the order in an effort to reduce corruption.

"Following protests from Jewish community leaders and an outcry by members of Congress and the press, President Abraham Lincoln ordered this revoked a few weeks later.

"During his campaign for the presidency in 1868, Grant repudiated the order, saying that it had been drafted by a subordinate and that he had signed it without reading it during warfare."

General Order No. 11 (1862) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Should we kick this one around in the History Forum?

WTF does GO#11 have to do with the thread topic?

"Neimark and Rebecca Vilkomerson of Jewish Voice for Peace argued that Israel wasn&#8217;t a democracy as currently constituted and brought home to the audience the harsh reality Palestinians live under.

" Vilkomerson asserted that even within the Green Line, Israeli democracy is an ethnocracy that discriminates against Palestinian citizens of Israel. 'There's no getting around the fact that Israel is based on ethnic supremacy...'"

Do you remember reading the OP link?

How about ethnic supremacy, Hossie.
Sound familiar?
Apparently General Grant thought some "unscrupulous Israelites" were impeding the abolition of slavery in the US in the same way kosher (and Muslim) gangsters are pillaging the West Bank today:

"During the war, the extensive cotton trade continued between the North and South. Northern textile mills in New York and New England were dependent on Southern cotton, while Southern plantation owners depended on the trade with the North for their economic survival.

"The US Government permitted limited trade, licensed by the Treasury and the US Army. Corruption flourished as unlicensed traders bribed Army officers to allow them to buy Southern cotton without a permit.[2]

"Jewish traders were among those involved in the cotton trade; some merchants had been active in the cotton business for generations in the South; others were more recent immigrants to the North.[citation."

General Order No. 11 (1862) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Hossfly]

Israel is certainly more democratic than any of her neighbors, but she's fallen far short of what some of her "Founders" envisioned:

Israel Without Zionism...

all of scientific study is based on "IN RELATION TO" NOTHING can be
evaluated in a vacuum. In fact ----even simply VELOCITY cannot be
determined independently (see heisenberg). Within its environment--
Israel is THE MOST DEMOCRATIC NATION ----<<< that is the answer.

within my enviornment of women averaging 5'5" I am short
in stature so? When I hang around with women from
south east asia----I AM OF AN AVERAGE HEIGHT

SOCIAL VISION? name one country that does not fall short of its
VISIONARIES

Much like the VACUUM between your EARS.

It's hilarious how Georgie Boy tells IRosie she has a vacuum between his ears when he has no problem himself constantly dragging up articles from Leftist Jews. It reminds me of a comment to some article written by another Leftist Jew
April 9, 2013 at 11:34 am

How jolly! We now have a new addition to the Gilad Atzmon club.Whats worse than one Jewish anti Semite?
Two plus Jewish anti semites!

 

[Hossfly]

Your welcome, Hoss.
On a somewhat related topic, what've you learned about US Grant's General Orders No. 11?

"General Order No. 11 was the title of an order issued by Major-General Ulysses S. Grant on December 17, 1862, during the American Civil War. It ordered the expulsion of all Jews in his military district, comprising areas of Tennessee, Mississippi, and Kentucky.

"The order was issued as part of a Union campaign against a black market in Southern cotton, which Grant thought was being run 'mostly by Jews and other unprincipled traders.'[1] While permitting some trade, the United States licensed traders through the United States Army, which created a market for unlicensed one.

"Union military commanders in the South were responsible for administering the trade licenses and trying to control the black market in Southern cotton, as well as for conducting the war. Grant issued the order in an effort to reduce corruption.

"Following protests from Jewish community leaders and an outcry by members of Congress and the press, President Abraham Lincoln ordered this revoked a few weeks later.

"During his campaign for the presidency in 1868, Grant repudiated the order, saying that it had been drafted by a subordinate and that he had signed it without reading it during warfare."

General Order No. 11 (1862) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Should we kick this one around in the History Forum?

WTF does GO#11 have to do with the thread topic?

"Neimark and Rebecca Vilkomerson of Jewish Voice for Peace argued that Israel wasn&#8217;t a democracy as currently constituted and brought home to the audience the harsh reality Palestinians live under.

" Vilkomerson asserted that even within the Green Line, Israeli democracy is an ethnocracy that discriminates against Palestinian citizens of Israel. 'There's no getting around the fact that Israel is based on ethnic supremacy...'"

Do you remember reading the OP link?

How about ethnic supremacy, Hossie.
Sound familiar?
Apparently General Grant thought some "unscrupulous Israelites" were impeding the abolition of slavery in the US in the same way kosher (and Muslim) gangsters are pillaging the West Bank today:

"During the war, the extensive cotton trade continued between the North and South. Northern textile mills in New York and New England were dependent on Southern cotton, while Southern plantation owners depended on the trade with the North for their economic survival.

"The US Government permitted limited trade, licensed by the Treasury and the US Army. Corruption flourished as unlicensed traders bribed Army officers to allow them to buy Southern cotton without a permit.[2]

"Jewish traders were among those involved in the cotton trade; some merchants had been active in the cotton business for generations in the South; others were more recent immigrants to the North.[citation."

General Order No. 11 (1862) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of course Georgie Boy will never mention the Muslims like Major Husan, the Muslim who threw a hand grenade into the tent of sleeping solider's, or the Muslim who killed at a recruiting station. Should we keep all Muslims out of the service, Georgie Boy, with a special order? It is always the Jews, Jews, Jews with him. He must have had a Jewish landlord who refused to lower his rent. Naturally, speaking of bribery, it appears that Georgie Boy has no problem with the bribery going on in the Muslim world, such as the case of Pakistani soldiers giving information to the Taliban to kill our own soldiers. What does Georgie Boy care if our soldiers are killed. He is sitting comfortably in his subsidized apartment bashing the Jews while they put their lives on the line.

 

[georgephillip]

I wonder why Hossie never makes the connection between acts of violence like the one committed by Major Hasan and Harry Truman's nearly-instantaneous endorsement of a Jewish state in the middle of about a billion Muslims? Particularly since Truman's cabinet and advisors were divided over the wisdom of such a blatant land grab. Maybe Hitler deserves the credit? BTW, it hasn't been necessary for any US soldiers to put their lives on the line since 1945, at least. Just ask the next USS Liberty survivor you come across.

 

[Hossfly]

I wonder why Hossie never makes the connection between acts of violence like the one committed by Major Hasan and Harry Truman's nearly-instantaneous endorsement of a Jewish state in the middle of about a billion Muslims? Particularly since Truman's cabinet and advisors were divided over the wisdom of such a blatant land grab. Maybe Hitler deserves the credit? BTW, it hasn't been necessary for any US soldiers to put their lives on the line since 1945, at least. Just ask the next USS Liberty survivor you come across.

Georgie Boy thinks he is fooling everyone that he cares about the Palestinians or any Arabs for that matter. This is his big chance to bash the Jews via Israel. Meanwhile, Georgie Boy closes his eyes to all the acts of violence committed by Muslims toward Hindus, Buddhists, Christians and even other Muslims of different sects. So tell us, Georgie Boy, is it our imagination when we read about a suicide or car bomber in places like Iraq or Pakistan where the blood is running down the streets of these innocent victims. Or perhaps Georgie Boy just skips over this news because no Jews are involved. Still haven't gone to Naval Base Ventura County, Georgie Boy, to speak to some retired Naval personnel who will give you their opinion on the Liberty incident? All you do is sit in your little apartment running around the Internet to dig up more stuff. By the way, Georgie, I don't think Hitler would consider you as one of his guys since you would not be thought of as an Aryan so it is a good thing you weren't around at that time to volunteer to help Hitler in his quest.

 

[georgephillip]

Hitler would've been exactly correct about me being "one of his guys", Hoss; what about you?