John F. Kennedy.. Democrats

[rightwinger]

Rightwinger-- "Civil Rights" "gay rights, women's rights"--There are only individual/property rights
"Ecological reform" For the sake of owls, fish & plankton, businesses have been eradicated.
"We won the Cold War, put a man on the moon" yeah, but at whose expense? Was it necessary?

You seem to be needing a clear definition of "rights", so let me provide one:
A “right” is a moral principle defining and sanctioning a man’s freedom of action in a social context. There is only one fundamental right (all the others are its consequences or corollaries): a man’s right to his own life. Life is a process of self-sustaining and self-generated action; the right to life means the right to engage in self-sustaining and self-generated action—which means: the freedom to take all the actions required by the nature of a rational being for the support, the furtherance, the fulfillment and the enjoyment of his own life. (Such is the meaning of the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.)

The concept of a “right” pertains only to action—specifically, to freedom of action. It means freedom from physical compulsion, coercion or interference by other men.

Thus, for every individual, a right is the moral sanction of a positive—of his freedom to act on his own judgment, for his own goals, by his own voluntary, uncoerced choice. As to his neighbors, his rights impose no obligations on them except of a negative kind: to abstain from violating his rights.

The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.

Bear in mind that the right to property is a right to action, like all the others: it is not the right to an object, but to the action and the consequences of producing or earning that object. It is not a guarantee that a man will earn any property, but only a guarantee that he will own it if he earns it. It is the right to gain, to keep, to use and to dispose of material values.

In 1960 blacks were still relegated to second class citizenship. Women only had access to limited careers and had restricted marital rights. Gays had no rights at all and were imprisoned if found in the military. Companies openly spewed filth into the air and rivers.
We were entering VietNam where 60,000 boys were sent to their deaths.
Assassinations were rampant
I would much rather live today than have to relive the 60s

Prefer what you want.
Understand the explanation of rights for the now & future-it's absolutely essential.

Your definition of rights is total nonsense. That is why I ignored responding to it

 

[rightwinger]

Rightwinger-- "Civil Rights" "gay rights, women's rights"--There are only individual/property rights
"Ecological reform" For the sake of owls, fish & plankton, businesses have been eradicated.
"We won the Cold War, put a man on the moon" yeah, but at whose expense? Was it necessary?

You seem to be needing a clear definition of "rights", so let me provide one:
A “right” is a moral principle defining and sanctioning a man’s freedom of action in a social context. There is only one fundamental right (all the others are its consequences or corollaries): a man’s right to his own life. Life is a process of self-sustaining and self-generated action; the right to life means the right to engage in self-sustaining and self-generated action—which means: the freedom to take all the actions required by the nature of a rational being for the support, the furtherance, the fulfillment and the enjoyment of his own life. (Such is the meaning of the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.)

The concept of a “right” pertains only to action—specifically, to freedom of action. It means freedom from physical compulsion, coercion or interference by other men.

Thus, for every individual, a right is the moral sanction of a positive—of his freedom to act on his own judgment, for his own goals, by his own voluntary, uncoerced choice. As to his neighbors, his rights impose no obligations on them except of a negative kind: to abstain from violating his rights.

The right to life is the source of all rights—and the right to property is their only implementation. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his effort has no means to sustain his life. The man who produces while others dispose of his product, is a slave.

Bear in mind that the right to property is a right to action, like all the others: it is not the right to an object, but to the action and the consequences of producing or earning that object. It is not a guarantee that a man will earn any property, but only a guarantee that he will own it if he earns it. It is the right to gain, to keep, to use and to dispose of material values.

That's a mole hill in comparison to the mountain that what Rightwinger requires..just sayin

Valiant yet doomed effort though..

I hear you. Still it's a start for those who believe they have a right to the lives, products or services of others.

Man realized thousands of years ago that his power and standard of living increased substantially when he stopped operating as an individual animal but as a member of a society
A society gave him strength, security, safety, protection and economic power. Part of belonging to a society means that you have to contribute to it. That means you contribute some of your product and services for the good of the group.

Simple concept that is beyond the grasp of libertarians

 

[Lumpy 1]

That's a mole hill in comparison to the mountain that what Rightwinger requires..just sayin

Valiant yet doomed effort though..

I hear you. Still it's a start for those who believe they have a right to the lives, products or services of others.

Man realized thousands of years ago that his power and standard of living increased substantially when he stopped operating as an individual animal but as a member of a society
A society gave him strength, security, safety, protection and economic power. Part of belonging to a society means that you have to contribute to it. That means you contribute some of your product and services for the good of the group.

Simple concept that is beyond the grasp of libertarians

There also was slaves, indentured servants, lifetimes of force military service basically many were just fodder for the Masters.

America created a middle-class, liberalism/Democrats are purposely diminishing that for the greater good they believe.

 

[rightwinger]

I hear you. Still it's a start for those who believe they have a right to the lives, products or services of others.

Man realized thousands of years ago that his power and standard of living increased substantially when he stopped operating as an individual animal but as a member of a society
A society gave him strength, security, safety, protection and economic power. Part of belonging to a society means that you have to contribute to it. That means you contribute some of your product and services for the good of the group.

Simple concept that is beyond the grasp of libertarians

There also was slaves, indentured servants, lifetimes of force military service basically many were just fodder for the Masters.

America created a middle-class, liberalism/Democrats are purposely diminishing that for the greater good they believe.

Reagan destroyed the Middle Class with his massive tax breaks for the wealthy and war on labor rights

 

[Lumpy 1]

Man realized thousands of years ago that his power and standard of living increased substantially when he stopped operating as an individual animal but as a member of a society
A society gave him strength, security, safety, protection and economic power. Part of belonging to a society means that you have to contribute to it. That means you contribute some of your product and services for the good of the group.

Simple concept that is beyond the grasp of libertarians

There also was slaves, indentured servants, lifetimes of force military service basically many were just fodder for the Masters.

America created a middle-class, liberalism/Democrats are purposely diminishing that for the greater good they believe.

Reagan destroyed the Middle Class with his massive tax breaks for the wealthy and war on labor rights

The poor don't pay, the rich and corporations just pass it along and the middle-class foots the bill..just sayin

 

[gipper]

That's a mole hill in comparison to the mountain that what Rightwinger requires..just sayin

Valiant yet doomed effort though..

I hear you. Still it's a start for those who believe they have a right to the lives, products or services of others.

Man realized thousands of years ago that his power and standard of living increased substantially when he stopped operating as an individual animal but as a member of a society
A society gave him strength, security, safety, protection and economic power. Part of belonging to a society means that you have to contribute to it. That means you contribute some of your product and services for the good of the group.

Simple concept that is beyond the grasp of libertarians

What is beyond your grasp is a very simple FACT. Government, whether by king, queen, dictator, ruler, or elected leader has been the system most humans have suffered under throughout recorded history. And these forms of "government" have caused more death, destruction, and suffering than any other cause known to man. More than natural disasters, famines, disease, etc..........

And yet, sadly...many believe government run by corrupt elites with unlimited power, is good and the appropriate structure for managing (controlling) human affairs. CRAZY!!!

Americans use to be taught the EVILS of government, but for some time now the government has brainwashed many into thinking government is GOOD. How can people be so ignorant when history clearly proves otherwise? The dumbing down of Americans is complete....thanks to leftism.

This statement use to be known and believed by all Americans:
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
George Washington

 

[rightwinger]

I hear you. Still it's a start for those who believe they have a right to the lives, products or services of others.

Man realized thousands of years ago that his power and standard of living increased substantially when he stopped operating as an individual animal but as a member of a society
A society gave him strength, security, safety, protection and economic power. Part of belonging to a society means that you have to contribute to it. That means you contribute some of your product and services for the good of the group.

Simple concept that is beyond the grasp of libertarians

What is beyond your grasp is a very simple FACT. Government, whether by king, queen, dictator, ruler, or elected leader has been the system most humans have suffered under throughout recorded history. And these forms of "government" have caused more death, destruction, and suffering than any other cause known to man. More than natural disasters, famines, disease, etc..........

And yet, sadly...many believe government run by corrupt elites with unlimited power, is good and the appropriate structure for managing (controlling) human affairs. CRAZY!!!

Americans use to be taught the EVILS of government, but for some time now the government has brainwashed many into thinking government is GOOD. How can people be so ignorant when history clearly proves otherwise? The dumbing down of Americans is complete....thanks to leftism.

This statement use to be known and believed by all Americans:
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
George Washington

You are correct in that since the beginning of time, people have griped about their government

They love their country, but hate their government

Lucky for the United States, we have the best government in the history of mankind

 

[Bfgrn]

I hear you. Still it's a start for those who believe they have a right to the lives, products or services of others.

Man realized thousands of years ago that his power and standard of living increased substantially when he stopped operating as an individual animal but as a member of a society
A society gave him strength, security, safety, protection and economic power. Part of belonging to a society means that you have to contribute to it. That means you contribute some of your product and services for the good of the group.

Simple concept that is beyond the grasp of libertarians

What is beyond your grasp is a very simple FACT. Government, whether by king, queen, dictator, ruler, or elected leader has been the system most humans have suffered under throughout recorded history. And these forms of "government" have caused more death, destruction, and suffering than any other cause known to man. More than natural disasters, famines, disease, etc..........

And yet, sadly...many believe government run by corrupt elites with unlimited power, is good and the appropriate structure for managing (controlling) human affairs. CRAZY!!!

Americans use to be taught the EVILS of government, but for some time now the government has brainwashed many into thinking government is GOOD. How can people be so ignorant when history clearly proves otherwise? The dumbing down of Americans is complete....thanks to leftism.

This statement use to be known and believed by all Americans:
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
George Washington

"The equal rights of man, and the happiness of every individual, are now acknowledged to be the only legitimate objects of government. Modern times have the signal advantage, too, of having discovered the only device by which these rights can be secured, to wit: government by the people, acting not in person, but by representatives chosen by themselves, that is to say, by every man of ripe years and sane mind, who contributes either by his purse or person to the support of his country." --Thomas Jefferson to A. Coray, 1823. ME 15:482

"The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only legitimate object of good government."
Thomas Jefferson to the Republican Citizens of Washington County, Maryland" (March 31, 1809).

"The legitimate object of Government is to do for a community of people whatever they need to have done but cannot do at all, or cannot so well do, for themselves in their separate and individual capacities. But in all that people can individually do as well for themselves, Government ought not to interfere."
President Abraham Lincoln


America was 'taught' government is evil starting with Ronald Reagan and his war on unions, the middle class and the poor. He even fabricated a non-existent 'welfare queen' to deride and belittle. He was the most destructive president in our history. Reagan didn't shrink government, he defunded it and shifted the power and wealth to the opulent.

The history of mankind has been a struggle between those who want to increase freedom, opportunity and rights to all people and those who want to restrict them. The people who have always fought to increase freedom, opportunity and rights are liberals. The people who have fought to restrict them are conservatives.

Q: What is conservatism?
A: Conservatism is the domination of society by an aristocracy.

Q: What is wrong with conservatism?
A: Conservatism is incompatible with democracy, prosperity, and civilization in general. It is a destructive system of inequality and prejudice that is founded on deception and has no place in the modern world.


“Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. Reagan was an ideological inflection point, ending a 50-year liberal ascendancy and beginning a 30-year conservative ascendancy."
Charles Krauthammer

 

[bendog]

We didn't have a middle class till the progressive movement and TR.

Reagan opposed medicare, and to be honest the life span hasn't increased all that much for the amount of money we spend, and medicare doesn't even pay for nursing homes, but going back to no govt sponsored HC for retirees is unacceptable to America. So, Reagan didn't push it. But telling yourself lifestyles for the middle aren't better now than in 1980 is really not accurate. The top 5%, and esp the top .1%, did the best, but it's not all class warfare by the rich. It's capitalism. And, at the heart of it, Reagan was right, nobody deserves crap w/o working for it.

 

[Lumpy 1]

 

[editec]

Like it or not Cuba was a sovereign country then as it is now. It isn't surprising that the CIA offered the JFK administration "plausible deniability" for the disaster at the Bay of Pigs but the point is that JFK and his strange brother crafted the plan and authorized the CIA to raise, equip, feed and train an illegal invasion force. What were they thinking? Whatever they were thinking it was an impeachable offense.

You have been misinformed, amigo.

The bay of pigs event was iun the planning and development stage before JFK took office.

here's a timeline of events leading up to the event


Bay of Pigs Chronology

Further proof whitehall troll here is cluless about american history. as any serious reseacher knows,Kennedy inherited the bay of pigs invasion form Eisenhower just like he inherited vietnam from him.

The bay of pigs invasion was planned under Ikes administration just like you said,the plan they presented to Eisenhower for the invasion was VASTLY different from the one they presented to kennedy.

The CIA they thought their boy Nixon was going to get elected.He ran covert operations for the CIA as VP under Eisenhower that were so secret,Eisenhower didnt even know about them.The plan they presented to Eisenhower was designed to succeed because they figured Nixon was going to get elected.Thats why the plan they presented to Eisenhower was designed for them to succeed.

The plan they presented to kennedy was designed to fail from the very beginning.they lied to him from the very beginning telling him they would not need air support when they knew beyond a doubt he WOULD need air support for it succeed.Man whitehall has really been brainwashed his whole life.

Air support or no the BAY OF PIGS event was a disaster and it would never have been anything else but a disaster.

Fidel knew with absolute certainty when and where the "invasion" was going to happen.

No way in hell that that ragtag group of counter revolutionaries were going to face down the Cuba Army without the US amarines ALSO landing along side of them IN FORCE.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Judging JFK against the American center of his times, he was far more to the left of center than the most current/recent Democratic presidents.

 

[Lumpy 1]

Judging JFK against the American center of his times, he was far more to the left of center than the most current/recent Democratic presidents.

 

[Katzndogz]

America did not create a middle class. The middle class has existed since medieval times. By the Victorian era some in the middle class were wealthier than impoverished nobility. What America did was expand the opportunities for more people to become middle class.

The middle class is the middle class because they were neither serf nor noble. They were craftsmen and tradesmen. That's the middle class.

 

[Lumpy 1]

America did not create a middle class. The middle class has existed since medieval times. By the Victorian era some in the middle class were wealthier than impoverished nobility. What America did was expand the opportunities for more people to become middle class.

The middle class is the middle class because they were neither serf nor noble. They were craftsmen and tradesmen. That's the middle class.

sheesh....I take for granted that members already know this, I guess you don't.

 

[bendog]

That's simply incorrect. Prior to the industrial revolution, and the progressive age, craftsmen and professionals (such as bankers) did consitute a middle class of sorts ... classes between the aristocracy and/or uber wealthy robber baron types and the very larger working class.

With industrialization and the rise of workers' rights, the working class in America became middle class ... leaving behind a much smaller group of have nots.

 

[Lumpy 1]

Now-a-days under Obama.. The rich get richer, the poor have more members and the middle-class is getting screwed over and diminishing unless they work for government.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Now-a-days under Obama.. The rich get richer, the poor have more members and the middle-class is getting screwed over and diminishing unless they work for government.

Isnt revisionist history fun?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I love the stuff that JFK said, but just how much did he actually contribute to the nation?

It's a sore spot that can't be addressed ... we can't question his legacy because he was shot.

Talking about putting a man on the moon was great TV, but HE did it? We would not have done this without him?

Not meaning this as a troll, just a reality check.

I recall that he brought the country together, it just felt good to have him as President.

When he was alive, we were not as together as many claim. JFK was treated by the right in much the same way that Obama is. Elitist, Commie, Liberal, un American.......CATHOLIC

After he was shot he became a martyr

Yup. Reality bites

 

[Lumpy 1]

Now-a-days under Obama.. The rich get richer, the poor have more members and the middle-class is getting screwed over and diminishing unless they work for government.

Isnt revisionist history fun?

I wouldn't know but I'll take your word for it, just this once...