Kentucky clerk won't interfere with gay marriage licenses

[playtime]

If you make a statement here and expect others to take it as a fact you should provide a link and a source (when it is requested). :"I heard it on TV" is not a link or a source. If I didn't say welcome to USMB earlier - welcome to USMB. I notice you joined recently.

I did not make the original comment about this. You asked SOMEONE if they had a link to this issue. Like a guy walking down the street who sees a car accident and chimes in regarding what he saw, I chimed in to say I had seen the news reports on TV but had seen no articles. I have no 'dog' in this fight, and not trying to prove one 'side' or the other, and I don't care. I just made a random comment.

Sounds like you may have a problem with CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, and Fox who reported thi son the news but who either doesn't have a written article on it or does somewhere but many people have not seen it. Take it up with them.

Thanks for the welcome....see ya 'round the pages.

I am a Christian, but let me ask a hypothetical question. If a DMV employee is Muslim and refuses to issue licenses to females due to her religion, should she be fired or reassigned? It seems to be a question that is pertinent to religious conscious. What do you think?

No, because Islam and Sharia law are not the law of the land. You are thinking Saudi Arabia.

Our constitution upholds Kim Davis's right not to issue a same sex marriage license. If our founding fathers were here they would agree with her. Marriage is between a man and a woman. Not a man and a man or a woman and a woman. The Supreme Court had no right to change the definition of marriage in order to appease the Sodomites of this land.

It certainly would be an issue, because Davis used her 'freedom of religion' under the 1st Amendment as the reason for her denying same sex marriage licenses. However, as stated in the Establishment Clause , there is no State sanctioned religion & as an agent for the government, working on behalf of the government- she cannot use her religious beliefs to dictate whom she will or will not serve. Can you please recite & link exactly where in the Constitution it says that a marriage is only between a man & a woman? How about between a Negro & Negro...Caucasian & Caucasian.?... I'll be waiting.

Title vII says she must be accommodated.

Not when she is acting as an agent of a secular government & choosing to dictate her religion onto others while in the role of said agent of a secular government & being paid a salary by the taxpayers of a secular government.

That is why she went to jail.

Period.

End of Sentence.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Most of the founding fathers were deists and rejected the concept of a personal god and the bible

False, as is most of your bullshit.

I bet you don't even know who all is included in founding fathers.

Our Founding Fathers Were NOT Christians

5 Founding Fathers Whose Skepticism About Christianity Would Make Them Unelectable Today
Thomas Jefferson believed that a coolly rational form of religion would take root in America. Was he ever wrong.

5 Founding Fathers Whose Skepticism About Christianity Would Make Them Unelectable Today

Suppose a nation in some distant region should take the Bible for their only law book and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited. . . . What a Eutopia – what a Paradise would this region be!


John Adams

35 Founding Father Quotes Conservative Christians Will Hate

Hey Guno, do you know what the very first person the First Continental Congress hired was?

That's right, a chaplain.

You dumb fuck.

 

[AvgGuyIA]

Roman Catholicism is a false religion. There is no salvation in Roman Catholicism. It is Satan's Masterpiece - a counterfeit church taking millions to hell. I pray you depart from it, mdk.

Those are the words of Satan masquerading as the words of the pious. The Bible warns us about people like you. Come back to the one true church and leave behind the lies Satan's whispers in your ears. In his name I cast you're false faith down.

I think you people need to stop praying to statues.

I think I don't care what you think.

I see thru the bullshit your dishing out to Jeremiah. Quit criticizing someone's religion, even if they pray to volcanos on a tropical island. It's a personal thing between them and their God.

Sure, you did. lol. That is why you told me to stop praying to statues, criticizing someone's faith indeed. She sure loves to shit all over people that don't follow her brand of Christianity. Unsurprising you say nothing about that b/c if you didn't have double standards you wouldn't have any.

For the record my wife is Catholic. I won't even kneel with her during Mass. Nor say "forgive our trespasses" when our Lord said ""forgive us our debts". Furthermore on the record, Jeremiah needs to tone down the criticism of other's religion. She's not being persuasive with that tone. It's embarrassing reading some of her posts to you.

 

[AvgGuyIA]

If you make a statement here and expect others to take it as a fact you should provide a link and a source (when it is requested). :"I heard it on TV" is not a link or a source. If I didn't say welcome to USMB earlier - welcome to USMB. I notice you joined recently.

I did not make the original comment about this. You asked SOMEONE if they had a link to this issue. Like a guy walking down the street who sees a car accident and chimes in regarding what he saw, I chimed in to say I had seen the news reports on TV but had seen no articles. I have no 'dog' in this fight, and not trying to prove one 'side' or the other, and I don't care. I just made a random comment.

Sounds like you may have a problem with CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, and Fox who reported thi son the news but who either doesn't have a written article on it or does somewhere but many people have not seen it. Take it up with them.

Thanks for the welcome....see ya 'round the pages.

I am a Christian, but let me ask a hypothetical question. If a DMV employee is Muslim and refuses to issue licenses to females due to her religion, should she be fired or reassigned? It seems to be a question that is pertinent to religious conscious. What do you think?

No, because Islam and Sharia law are not the law of the land. You are thinking Saudi Arabia.

Our constitution upholds Kim Davis's right not to issue a same sex marriage license. If our founding fathers were here they would agree with her. Marriage is between a man and a woman. Not a man and a man or a woman and a woman. The Supreme Court had no right to change the definition of marriage in order to appease the Sodomites of this land.

It certainly would be an issue, because Davis used her 'freedom of religion' under the 1st Amendment as the reason for her denying same sex marriage licenses. However, as stated in the Establishment Clause , there is no State sanctioned religion & as an agent for the government, working on behalf of the government- she cannot use her religious beliefs to dictate whom she will or will not serve. Can you please recite & link exactly where in the Constitution it says that a marriage is only between a man & a woman? How about between a Negro & Negro...Caucasian & Caucasian.?... I'll be waiting.

Title vII says she must be accommodated.

Not when she is acting as an agent of a secular government & choosing to dictate her religion onto others while in the role of said agent of a secular government & being paid a salary by the taxpayers of a secular government.

That is why she went to jail.

Period.

End of Sentence.

Title VII applies to public officials too. She won. She doesn't have to sign the license. Her opinion they are not valid is just her opinion. Let it go. Quit persecuting Christians for their beliefs. Let bakers and photographers alone too. Everyone will be happier. Gays can marry. Accept your victory and have a happy life with your same sex spouce. Leave us with ours.

 

[mdk]

Those are the words of Satan masquerading as the words of the pious. The Bible warns us about people like you. Come back to the one true church and leave behind the lies Satan's whispers in your ears. In his name I cast you're false faith down.

I think you people need to stop praying to statues.

I think I don't care what you think.

I see thru the bullshit your dishing out to Jeremiah. Quit criticizing someone's religion, even if they pray to volcanos on a tropical island. It's a personal thing between them and their God.

Sure, you did. lol. That is why you told me to stop praying to statues, criticizing someone's faith indeed. She sure loves to shit all over people that don't follow her brand of Christianity. Unsurprising you say nothing about that b/c if you didn't have double standards you wouldn't have any.

For the record my wife is Catholic. I won't even kneel with her during Mass. Nor say "forgive our truss passes" when our Lord said ""forgive us our debts". Furthermore on the record, Jeremiah needs to tone down the criticism of other's religion. She's not being persuasive with that tone. It's embarrassing reading some of her posts to you.

Jeremiah does these anti-Catholics rants quite often. Most of family is Catholic (and all of my in-laws) and I think about all the good work they do on their own, or with the church, to make the world a better place and it infuriates me when people diminish their faith. Perhaps I was bit too rude with her and for that I feel bad.

AvgGuy, we see eye-to-eye on only a handful issues and we have spirited exchanges but please know that I do not harbor any ill will or hard feelings whatsoever. I wish you and yours nothing but the best. Cheers!

 

[The Professor]

"... she said she decided not to interfere with deputy clerks who will continue to hand out the marriage licenses in Rowan County, but Davis declared they would not be authorized by her and she questioned their validity."

Is a marriage legal if you never had a valid license?

Do you have a link or source to her ever saying she wanted to interfere with other Deputy clerks who continued to hand out marriage licenses in their own names? She said they would not be authorized by her - she can question their validity. She hasn't changed her position so do not make it appear as if she has some how backed down. She hasn't. Kim Davis has been consistent on this. She is to be commended for holding her ground.

Here are the requested links:

"Kim Davis, the Kentucky court clerk who has repeatedly refused to issue marriage licenses to gay couples, will remain jailed for contempt after refusing a compromise that would have allowed deputy clerks to issue the licenses."

Kentucky clerk Kim Davis jailed, refuses to let deputy clerks issue gay marriage licenses

"CNN)Rowan County, Kentucky, clerk Kim Davis was given a second chance: She didn't have to issue same-sex marriage licenses herself; she merely had to agree not to interfere with five deputy clerks who had told the federal judge they'd issue them in her stead.

"But Davis' lawyer told U.S. District Judge David Bunning that his client would not allow her deputies to issue the licenses. Davis was not in the courtroom for the second session. She was in a hallway outside."

Kim Davis, the county clerk, to remain in Kentucky jail - CNNPolitics.com

 

[WorldWatcher]

Title vII says she must be accommodated.

No it doesn't. The law only requires reasonable accommodations. Shutting down the operation (or part thereof) of a government entity is not a reasonable accommodation. Reasonable accommodation does not mean anything the employee demands.

Employers must make a reasonable accommodation, the Judge offered her a reasonable accommodation and she refused.


>>>>

 

[playtime]

I did not make the original comment about this. You asked SOMEONE if they had a link to this issue. Like a guy walking down the street who sees a car accident and chimes in regarding what he saw, I chimed in to say I had seen the news reports on TV but had seen no articles. I have no 'dog' in this fight, and not trying to prove one 'side' or the other, and I don't care. I just made a random comment.

Sounds like you may have a problem with CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, and Fox who reported thi son the news but who either doesn't have a written article on it or does somewhere but many people have not seen it. Take it up with them.

Thanks for the welcome....see ya 'round the pages.

I am a Christian, but let me ask a hypothetical question. If a DMV employee is Muslim and refuses to issue licenses to females due to her religion, should she be fired or reassigned? It seems to be a question that is pertinent to religious conscious. What do you think?

No, because Islam and Sharia law are not the law of the land. You are thinking Saudi Arabia.

Our constitution upholds Kim Davis's right not to issue a same sex marriage license. If our founding fathers were here they would agree with her. Marriage is between a man and a woman. Not a man and a man or a woman and a woman. The Supreme Court had no right to change the definition of marriage in order to appease the Sodomites of this land.

It certainly would be an issue, because Davis used her 'freedom of religion' under the 1st Amendment as the reason for her denying same sex marriage licenses. However, as stated in the Establishment Clause , there is no State sanctioned religion & as an agent for the government, working on behalf of the government- she cannot use her religious beliefs to dictate whom she will or will not serve. Can you please recite & link exactly where in the Constitution it says that a marriage is only between a man & a woman? How about between a Negro & Negro...Caucasian & Caucasian.?... I'll be waiting.

Title vII says she must be accommodated.

Not when she is acting as an agent of a secular government & choosing to dictate her religion onto others while in the role of said agent of a secular government & being paid a salary by the taxpayers of a secular government.

That is why she went to jail.

Period.

End of Sentence.

Title VII applies to public officials too. She won. She doesn't have to sign the license. Her opinion they are not valid is just her opinion. Let it go. Quit persecuting Christians for their beliefs. Let bakers and photographers alone too. Everyone will be happier. Gays can marry. Accept your victory and have a happy life with your same sex spouce. Leave us with ours.

I am not persecuting any Christian for their beliefs. I am a Christian myself, but in the United States, the Constitution rules over any religious doctrine. You are wrong concerning Title VII when it comes to elected public employees & their staff.

Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964
EDITOR'S NOTE: The following is the text of Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Pub. L. 88-352) (Title VII), as amended, as it appears in volume 42 of the United States Code, beginning at section 2000e. Title VII prohibits employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex and national origin. The Civil Rights Act of 1991 (Pub. L. 102-166) (CRA) and the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act of 2009 (Pub. L. 111-2) amend several sections of Title VII. In addition, section 102 of the CRA (which is printed elsewhere in this publication) amends the Revised Statutes by adding a new section following section 1977 (42 U.S.C. 1981), to provide for the recovery of compensatory and punitive damages in cases of intentional violations of Title VII, the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990, and section 501 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. Cross references to Title VII as enacted appear in italics following each section heading. Editor's notes also appear in italics.

DEFINITIONS
SEC. 2000e. [Section 701]

For the purposes of this subchapter-

(a) The term “person” includes one or more individuals, governments, governmental agencies, political subdivisions, labor unions, partnerships, associations, corporations, legal representatives, mutual companies, joint-stock companies, trusts, unincorporated organizations, trustees, trustees in cases under Title 11 [originally, bankruptcy ], or receivers.

(b) The term “employer” means a person engaged in an industry affecting commerce who has fifteen or more employees for each working day in each of twenty or more calendar weeks in the current or preceding calendar year, and any agent of such a person, but such term does not include (1) the United States, a corporation wholly owned by the Government of the United States, an Indian tribe, or any department or agency of the District of Columbia subject by statute to procedures of the competitive service (as defined in section 2102 of Title 5 [United States Code])...

(f) The term “employee” means an individual employed by an employer, except that the term “employee” shall not include any person elected to public office in any State or political subdivision of any State by the qualified voters thereof, or any person chosen by such officer to be on such officer’s personal staff, or an appointee on the policy making level or an immediate adviser with respect to the exercise of the constitutional or legal powers of the office. The exemption set forth in the preceding sentence shall not include employees subject to the civil service laws of a State government, governmental agency or political subdivision. With respect to employment in a foreign country, such term includes an individual who is a citizen of the United States...

Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964

Kim Davis was elected, & those in her office were her personal staff.

 

[guno]

False, as is most of your bullshit.

I bet you don't even know who all is included in founding fathers.

Our Founding Fathers Were NOT Christians

5 Founding Fathers Whose Skepticism About Christianity Would Make Them Unelectable Today
Thomas Jefferson believed that a coolly rational form of religion would take root in America. Was he ever wrong.

5 Founding Fathers Whose Skepticism About Christianity Would Make Them Unelectable Today

Suppose a nation in some distant region should take the Bible for their only law book and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited. . . . What a Eutopia – what a Paradise would this region be!


John Adams

35 Founding Father Quotes Conservative Christians Will Hate

Hey Guno, do you know what the very first person the First Continental Congress hired was?

That's right, a chaplain.

You dumb fuck.

Really pissed you off about the founding fathers quotes about you god man relgion huh? Here are more of the best quotes: So enjoy!!


The whole history of these books the Gospels is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute inquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, January 24, 1814

And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.

-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823


Among the sayings and discourses imputed to Jesus by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short, April 13, 1820

It is between fifty and sixty years since I read the Apocalypse, and I then considered it merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to General Alexander Smyth, Jan. 17, 1825


Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man"-Thomas Jefferson

2. "The hocus-pocus phantasm of a God like another Cerberus, with one body and three heads, had its birth and growth in the blood of thousands and thousands of martyrs." -Thomas Jefferson

There is not one redeeming feature in our superstition of Christianity. It has made one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites."-Thomas Jefferson

"In the affairs of the world, men are saved not by faith, but by the lack of it."- Ben Franklin

"It is the fable of Jesus Christ, as told in the New Testament, and the wild and visionary doctrine raised thereon, against which I contend. The story, taking it as it is told, is blasphemously obscene.”- Thomas Paine

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."- James Madison




Oh how facts and documented history must suck to you!!

 

[JakeStarkey]

So keep your godman on two sticks out of the govenment

Religious values and secular ethics are part of governmental values, always have been. The anti-Godists will be crushed completely if they try to have this their own way.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Jerry, I have a simple question for you.

Suppose you went in to renew your DL and the clerk said "I seen you coming out of church Sunday, I'm not issuing a DL to a Christian, it violates my beliefs"

Would you say "oh well I can't violate his religious beliefs" and walk out without your DL?

You're equating Christians with sexual perverts? Homosexuality with Christianity? Do you know how stupid that is?

I'm equating rights with rights. It's no wonder she was too scared to answer my question.

You have a RIGHT to a state ID
You have a riGHT to a marriage license.

same same, the clerk can't pick and choose who to give one too

She has a right to not be associated with gay marriage. If some deputy clerk can hand them out, what's wrong with that.? Why force her to go against God if accommodating can be made. The fight is homos want her to sin against God's word. Same for bakers and photographers. It's not like they can't be served elsewhere. This is shoving homo sex down everyone's throat. We ain't playing that game. There will be pushback. Forced acceptance is no acceptance.

Nobody was being forced to follow Christianity. You make a dumb argument with your posters.

Everyone was being forced to follow her religious values in determining a law's execution.

 

[JakeStarkey]

"She won." No, she was forced to accept the law.

She is fortunate the law allows her to keep her job and let someone else do her job that she is being paid for.

 

[JakeStarkey]

There are 100s of Christian quotes to your silly 36, Guno. Really pisses you off.

 

[AvgGuyIA]

Title vII says she must be accommodated.

No it doesn't. The law only requires reasonable accommodations. Shutting down the operation (or part thereof) of a government entity is not a reasonable accommodation. Reasonable accommodation does not mean anything the employee demands.

Employers must make a reasonable accommodation, the Judge offered her a reasonable accommodation and she refused.


>>>>

Reasonable accommodation is to remove her name from license. That was done. She won! Title VII worked for this public employee.

 

[playtime]

Title vII says she must be accommodated.

No it doesn't. The law only requires reasonable accommodations. Shutting down the operation (or part thereof) of a government entity is not a reasonable accommodation. Reasonable accommodation does not mean anything the employee demands.

Employers must make a reasonable accommodation, the Judge offered her a reasonable accommodation and she refused.


>>>>

Reasonable accommodation is to remove her name from license. That was done. She won! Title VII worked for this public employee.

She should have done that in the first place. She chose not to until she was forced to. She "won" nothing.