Liberal Seeks To Understand #1: Private emails

[wjmacguffin]

Hi folks! First, yes I probably fit the label "liberal" more than anything else. And yes, I've been in my fair share of stupid, pointless arguments on teh interwebs. But unlike some liberals, I want to understand instead of judge. That's why I'm going to start asking some honest questions to conservatives here. I may not agree with you, but I'm hoping to improve my understanding and empathy by seeking first to understand.

Case in point: private email servers for government officials.

Liberals see hypocrisy from conservatives on this. According to the right, Clinton was downright evil for having used a private email server for government business. Yet it appears that Trump and members of his staff are doing the same thing.

The question: Is there a difference between the two situations, or is Trump as guilty as Clinton in using a private email server?

If we can, let's skip other reasons why Clinton was immoral, illegal, etc. because that's not the issue here. I want to know if conservatives what Trump is doing vs. what Clinton did. I promise to return kindness and respect towards me with kindness and respect towards you. Cheers!

 

[NightFox]

Yet it appears that Trump and members of his staff are doing the same thing.

What is your source for this assertion? Are they using them for government correspondence (i.e. work related emails)?

If so they're just as corrupt and idiotic as The Queen of Corruption is and belong in prison just like she does, if not, then it's an apples to oranges comparison.

 

[wjmacguffin]

Trump's most senior staff use a private email server
http://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...nior-staff-have-private-email-accounts-report

So what you're saying is the key is whether Trump and his staff are using these accounts for official government business and/or work-related stuff? Because that makes sense. My concern is how to determine if such emails are being used for work or not.

 

[The Original Tree]

Hi folks! First, yes I probably fit the label "liberal" more than anything else. And yes, I've been in my fair share of stupid, pointless arguments on teh interwebs. But unlike some liberals, I want to understand instead of judge. That's why I'm going to start asking some honest questions to conservatives here. I may not agree with you, but I'm hoping to improve my understanding and empathy by seeking first to understand.

Case in point: private email servers for government officials.

Liberals see hypocrisy from conservatives on this. According to the right, Clinton was downright evil for having used a private email server for government business. Yet it appears that Trump and members of his staff are doing the same thing.

The question: Is there a difference between the two situations, or is Trump as guilty as Clinton in using a private email server?

If we can, let's skip other reasons why Clinton was immoral, illegal, etc. because that's not the issue here. I want to know if conservatives what Trump is doing vs. what Clinton did. I promise to return kindness and respect towards me with kindness and respect towards you. Cheers!

It was not her use of a Private Email server that was actually the issue although that was a violation of policy & protocol, and she put classified information at risk.

She repeatedly lied about it, and then despite having two preservation orders in her hands, proceeded to Violate Both FOIA Laws, and The Espionage Act as well as numerous other laws, one of which the penalty for violating such a law is the Barring of Her from Holding Public Office or running for any public office.

People have been jailed for less than what she admitted she did to FBI.

Meanwhile she incessantly regurgitated the line about Russians with no proof. There still is none.
The biggest threat to Democracy was Hillary Clinton this election year.

Exactly how does one get away with violating FOIA, The Espionage Act, Rigging a Primary, and Rigging Debate Questions, Interviews, and Newspaper Articles, and in addition to that, pay for Hired Thugs to attack Trump supporters at rallies and is still somehow allowed to run for President?

And to top all that off, she used The Office of The Secretary of State for her own Financial Gain in a pay to play scheme using The Clinton Foundation as a money laundering tool.

There isn't enough Irish Spring in the world to wash the slime off of her.

And you wonder why people don't like her?

I have to wonder why you even bothered asking the question?

Private emails weren't the issue.

It was her private positions, and what she did in the dark when she thought no one was looking that was the issue.

 

[vlad_hombre]

 

[Defiant1]

Hi folks! First, yes I probably fit the label "liberal" more than anything else. And yes, I've been in my fair share of stupid, pointless arguments on teh interwebs. But unlike some liberals, I want to understand instead of judge. That's why I'm going to start asking some honest questions to conservatives here. I may not agree with you, but I'm hoping to improve my understanding and empathy by seeking first to understand.

Case in point: private email servers for government officials.

Liberals see hypocrisy from conservatives on this. According to the right, Clinton was downright evil for having used a private email server for government business. Yet it appears that Trump and members of his staff are doing the same thing.

The question: Is there a difference between the two situations, or is Trump as guilty as Clinton in using a private email server?

If we can, let's skip other reasons why Clinton was immoral, illegal, etc. because that's not the issue here. I want to know if conservatives what Trump is doing vs. what Clinton did. I promise to return kindness and respect towards me with kindness and respect towards you. Cheers!

Let me see if I can make it easy for you.

Private email server -only for personal emails, never govt emails
Govt email server - only for govt emails, never for personal emails.

 

[The Original Tree]

Exactly what kind of disgusting message are you trying to send with that disgusting picture?

You aren't one of Madonna's Herpes infested friends, are you?

You should be ashamed of yourself for flaming the forum with such a hateful image.

But you are a liberal and are probably giddy with glee over what you did, aren't you?

 

[Darkwind]

Hi folks! First, yes I probably fit the label "liberal" more than anything else. And yes, I've been in my fair share of stupid, pointless arguments on teh interwebs. But unlike some liberals, I want to understand instead of judge. That's why I'm going to start asking some honest questions to conservatives here. I may not agree with you, but I'm hoping to improve my understanding and empathy by seeking first to understand.

Case in point: private email servers for government officials.

Liberals see hypocrisy from conservatives on this. According to the right, Clinton was downright evil for having used a private email server for government business. Yet it appears that Trump and members of his staff are doing the same thing.

The question: Is there a difference between the two situations, or is Trump as guilty as Clinton in using a private email server?

If we can, let's skip other reasons why Clinton was immoral, illegal, etc. because that's not the issue here. I want to know if conservatives what Trump is doing vs. what Clinton did. I promise to return kindness and respect towards me with kindness and respect towards you. Cheers!

So, let's begin with this. Private email servers for government officials. You do understand that it is against the law, right? There is nothing evil about pointing this out.

If you wish to seek answers, you first must ask questions that are not biased. You say that conservatives think it was downright evil for Clinton to use a private email server. I would be interested in discovering who has said that this was evil. You are NOT permitted to say, they came across that way. That is not seeking to understand, that is imposing your own bias on what others do.

I have not heard about Trump using a private email server. Can you point to a source for this?

So your question is meaningless if you cannot definitively show that Trump is doing exactly what Clinton did.

Now, to further your own understanding.

Is using a private email server illegal or not? This is not a matter of interpretation.

Is it wrong to cover up an illicit act? This is not matter of interpretation.

Is it wrong for government and the media to cover up illicit activities of a government employee, a presidential candidate, or in general? This too, is not subject to interpretation.

 

[vlad_hombre]

I, Vlad, make request that all communiques between I and your glorious new leader - Donald Trump, must transmit with use of Android phone, which, I, Vlad, personally have gifted him.

And, no audiorecords, please.

Very good.

Thank you, American stooges.

 

[wjmacguffin]

Hi folks! First, yes I probably fit the label "liberal" more than anything else. And yes, I've been in my fair share of stupid, pointless arguments on teh interwebs. But unlike some liberals, I want to understand instead of judge. That's why I'm going to start asking some honest questions to conservatives here. I may not agree with you, but I'm hoping to improve my understanding and empathy by seeking first to understand.

Case in point: private email servers for government officials.

Liberals see hypocrisy from conservatives on this. According to the right, Clinton was downright evil for having used a private email server for government business. Yet it appears that Trump and members of his staff are doing the same thing.

The question: Is there a difference between the two situations, or is Trump as guilty as Clinton in using a private email server?

If we can, let's skip other reasons why Clinton was immoral, illegal, etc. because that's not the issue here. I want to know if conservatives what Trump is doing vs. what Clinton did. I promise to return kindness and respect towards me with kindness and respect towards you. Cheers!

It was not her use of a Private Email server that was actually the issue although that was a violation of policy & protocol, and she put classified information at risk.

She repeatedly lied about it, and then despite having two preservation orders in her hands, proceeded to Violate Both FOIA Laws, and The Espionage Act as well as numerous other laws, one of which the penalty for violating such a law is the Barring of Her from Holding Public Office or running for any public office.

People have been jailed for less than what she admitted she did to FBI.

Meanwhile she incessantly regurgitated the line about Russians with no proof. There still is none.
The biggest threat to Democracy was Hillary Clinton this election year.

Exactly how does one get away with violating FOIA, The Espionage Act, Rigging a Primary, and Rigging Debate Questions, Interviews, and Newspaper Articles, and in addition to that, pay for Hired Thugs to attack Trump supporters at rallies and is still somehow allowed to run for President?

And to top all that off, she used The Office of The Secretary of State for her own Financial Gain in a pay to play scheme using The Clinton Foundation as a money laundering tool.

There isn't enough Irish Spring in the world to wash the slime off of her.

And you wonder why people don't like her?

I have to wonder why you even bothered asking the question?

Private emails weren't the issue.

It was her private positions, and what she did in the dark when she thought no one was looking that was the issue.

Let me try to paraphrase you to check my understanding. Please correct me if I'm wrong. (However, I'm only going to focus on the email issue and not the others you brought up. I'm not sweeping things under the rug, just trying to stay focused.)

The difference here lies not in using a private email server but in how Clinton responded. She lied about using a private server, used that server to transmit classified information and thereby putting it at risk, and violated several laws in doing just that. Trump and his staff haven't lied, haven't transmitted classified info, and thus have not broken the law. Is that fair?

 

[wjmacguffin]

Let me see if I can make it easy for you.

Private email server -only for personal emails, never govt emails
Govt email server - only for govt emails, never for personal emails.

Yeah, I get that. I'm not defending Hillary here. I'm trying to understand if conservatives have a problem with Trump using a private email server. Are you saying, like another poster above, that it depends on if Trump et. al. are conducting official business on private email channels? That if he is, then he needs to be held accountable like Clinton should have?

 

[wjmacguffin]

So, let's begin with this. Private email servers for government officials. You do understand that it is against the law, right? There is nothing evil about pointing this out.

If you wish to seek answers, you first must ask questions that are not biased. You say that conservatives think it was downright evil for Clinton to use a private email server. I would be interested in discovering who has said that this was evil. You are NOT permitted to say, they came across that way. That is not seeking to understand, that is imposing your own bias on what others do.

I have not heard about Trump using a private email server. Can you point to a source for this?

So your question is meaningless if you cannot definitively show that Trump is doing exactly what Clinton did.

Now, to further your own understanding.

Is using a private email server illegal or not? This is not a matter of interpretation.

Is it wrong to cover up an illicit act? This is not matter of interpretation.

Is it wrong for government and the media to cover up illicit activities of a government employee, a presidential candidate, or in general? This too, is not subject to interpretation.

My apologies, as I was being glib. You're right that I shouldn't use a phrase like "evil" in that context. I'll edit that in a bit.

Trump White House senior staff have private email accounts: report

Assuming you hold RNC servers as private (because they legally are and are not subject to FOIA requests or similar limits & protections), would you say Trump's use is illegal? If not, why not?

 

[g5000]

Look. If you want to get through the next four years with any shred of sanity left, just repeat after me: IT'S OKAY IF TRUMP DOES IT!

Now let's do some practice drills.

REPORT: President Trump has spent the day golfing on one of his golf courses.

YOU: IT'S OKAY IF TRUMP DOES IT!

REPORT: President Trump has circumvented Congress with an Executive Order.

YOU: IT'S OKAY IF TRUMP DOES IT!

REPORT: President Trump is taking a vacation today, with his family, at great taxpayer expense.

YOU: IT'S OKAY IF TRUMP DOES IT!

REPORT: President Trump has acquiesced to the demands of Vladimir Putin and ended sanctions.

YOU: IT's OKAY IF TRUMP DOES IT!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I, Vlad, make request that all communiques between I and your glorious new leader - Donald Trump, must transmit with use of Android phone, which, I, Vlad, personally have gifted him.

And, no audiorecords, please.

Very good.

Thank you, American stooges.

Thank you Uncle Vlad for defeating St Hillary the Inevitable

We're looking forward to 2018 when Uncle Vlad flips all 25 Democrat Senate seats, including NY

 

[wjmacguffin]

Look. If you want to get through the next four years with any shred of sanity left, just repeat after me: IT'S OKAY IF TRUMP DOES IT!

Now let's do some practice drills.

REPORT: President Trump has spent the day golfing on one of his golf courses.

YOU: IT'S OKAY IF TRUMP DOES IT!

REPORT: President Trump has circumvented Congress with an Executive Order.

YOU: IT'S OKAY IF TRUMP DOES IT!

REPORT: President Trump is taking a vacation today, with his family, at great taxpayer expense.

YOU: IT'S OKAY IF TRUMP DOES IT!

REPORT: President Trump has acquiesced to the demands of Vladimir Putin and ended sanctions.

YOU: IT's OKAY IF TRUMP DOES IT!

I share your frustration, which is why I'm trying to understand the reasons why it's OK if Trump does it. So far, the best response so far can be boiled down to "Trump hasn't been shown to be using private servers for government business." And as far as I know, that's accurate.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Liberals are easily confused or readily mislead.

Hillary conducted State Dept business on her private server, including illegally sending classified material to Huma and others

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Look. If you want to get through the next four years with any shred of sanity left, just repeat after me: IT'S OKAY IF TRUMP DOES IT!

Now let's do some practice drills.

REPORT: President Trump has spent the day golfing on one of his golf courses.

YOU: IT'S OKAY IF TRUMP DOES IT!

REPORT: President Trump has circumvented Congress with an Executive Order.

YOU: IT'S OKAY IF TRUMP DOES IT!

REPORT: President Trump is taking a vacation today, with his family, at great taxpayer expense.

YOU: IT'S OKAY IF TRUMP DOES IT!

REPORT: President Trump has acquiesced to the demands of Vladimir Putin and ended sanctions.

YOU: IT's OKAY IF TRUMP DOES IT!

Read post #4

 

[g5000]

Look. If you want to get through the next four years with any shred of sanity left, just repeat after me: IT'S OKAY IF TRUMP DOES IT!

Now let's do some practice drills.

REPORT: President Trump has spent the day golfing on one of his golf courses.

YOU: IT'S OKAY IF TRUMP DOES IT!

REPORT: President Trump has circumvented Congress with an Executive Order.

YOU: IT'S OKAY IF TRUMP DOES IT!

REPORT: President Trump is taking a vacation today, with his family, at great taxpayer expense.

YOU: IT'S OKAY IF TRUMP DOES IT!

REPORT: President Trump has acquiesced to the demands of Vladimir Putin and ended sanctions.

YOU: IT's OKAY IF TRUMP DOES IT!

Read post #4

Like I said. It's okay if Trump does it.

 

[wjmacguffin]

Liberals are easily confused or readily mislead.

Hillary conducted State Dept business on her private server, including illegally sending classified material to Huma and others

If Trump is conducting White House business on the RNC private servers, would that be the same for you? Or is the key difference found in sending classified materials? Like, Trump can use a private email server as long as he doesn't use it to send/receive classified data?

 

[Defiant1]

Let me see if I can make it easy for you.

Private email server -only for personal emails, never govt emails
Govt email server - only for govt emails, never for personal emails.

Yeah, I get that. I'm not defending Hillary here. I'm trying to understand if conservatives have a problem with Trump using a private email server. Are you saying, like another poster above, that it depends on if Trump et. al. are conducting official business on private email channels? That if he is, then he needs to be held accountable like Clinton should have?

I stand by what I posted for everyone including Trump.

Do you have evidence that Trump is using his personal email for govt business?