Lockdowns Did Not Work

[meaner gene]

The virus is starting to penetrate the heartland of america (and not just the coasts). It's hitting the meat packing businesses that the entire country depends on. The president had to issue an emergency executive order to force those businesses to stay open, but some have up to 1/3rd of their employees testing positive.

Should just close them. Meat is not essential to survival. There are plenty of vegan and vegetarian alternatives as well as fish.

Or open up our 2nd amendment rights to get our own meat.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

There is no empirical evidence for these lockdowns

Comparing US states shows there is no relationship between lockdowns and lower Covid-19 deaths.

www.google.com

This is science NOT opinion.


The most basic way to test this thesis is by direct comparison. As of 6 April, seven US states had not adopted shelter-in place orders and their stats are in line with those that did even when adjusting for population density.

Open the country!

Those seven states that did not adopt stay at home policies are more rural and more isolated. Had they adopted the same policies as California and Washington State early on, its likely several of these states would have suffered no deaths at all to coronavirus.

You want a real example about how travel bans and proper testing, contact tracing and isolation policies work, look at TAIWAN!

TAIWAN is a country of 24 million people more exposed to China than any other country in the world. John Hopkins University predicted TAIWAN would have a higher infection rate and death rate than any country in the world. Instead this is what happened thanks to TAIWAN's anti-pandemic policies:

TAIWAN total infections: 429
TAIWAN total deaths: 6

Now compare that to the United States:

UNITED STATES total infections: 849,092
UNITED STATES total deaths: 47,681

Taiwan proves that early travel bans, testing, contact tracing, and isolation when needed works. TAIWAN successfully protected its population, while the United States remains in an ongoing national crises it has never seen before with human health and economic side effects on a massive scale. TRUMP failed and the scale of Trump's failure is reflected In the difference between the number of deaths in TAIWAN from coronavirus vs. the number of deaths in the United States from coronavirus.

But TAIWAAAAANNN!

Yes, they reacted early, because of their traditional distrust to China. But they're also disciplined people, who care about their country, and not to mention homogeneous country with no racial problems.

Can you compare New York City and Tokyo?

As of today, city of New York has 12287 deaths.
Tokyo, the world's largest and densest city, has 93 deaths.

New York is locked down.
Tokyo was never locked down.

Both cities got the virus about the same time, yet New York city death rate is over 250 times higher than Tokyo's.

Apparently, virus is not biggest problem. The filth is.

Actually, New York City has over 18,000 deaths as of today and many speculate there have been thousands more deaths in New York City that are unaccounted for. Japan like Taiwan put in place travel bans and restrictions and have done a better job at finding the virus and isolating those infected. That explains the difference between Tokyo and New York City. Donald Trump let the virus penetrate the country too deeply in the early stages. New York City has the largest exposure to the outside world being a travel hub. Once the population was deeply penetrated, the number of cases overwhelmed New York's ability to test, contact trace and isolate people. Because Japan PREVENTED deep penetration of the virus into the country in the early stages, they have been able to manage it with testing, contact tracing, and isolation.

TAIWAN only has 99 active cases now in a country of 24 million people. By the end of this month, the virus won't even exist in Taiwan based on the latest projections.

We currently have 19 deaths per 100k in the US. 0.0195%. Don't be such a snowflake.

Were currently in a lockdown without which the Virus could kill nearly 1% of the U.S. population by August, 2.4 million people. Plus, that is just the first wave. The virus is a serious threat because of its capacity to kill millions of Americans over the next two years WITHOUT lockdowns and mitigation efforts.

You don't know that. You're guessing the numbers I gave you are actual facts. And if I increase those numbers by 2.5x! Or 160k deaths that is still only 48 per 100k. 85% of the population has mild to no symptoms. Of the deaths, 82% are 65+ and 94% had preexisting conditions.

This is simple math. I am not making any other guesses. And the lockdowns weren't 100%. My wife and I still go to the grocery stores and my kids still hang with their friends. What we reduced was large group gatherings, nothing more.

YOU DON'T EITHER. Its the best calculation based on the best SCIENCE we have. If you want to save and protect as many people as possible, you have to plan for worst case situations. There is often much uncertainty when it comes to planning and strategy in a crises. You have to estimate what could happen, and then make a plan based on that.

I don't. So I am giving you current mathematical facts only. Not drawing any conclusions. You are. I am not even estimating. I am just saying if the toll increases by 2.5x the number would still be tiny.

Georgia, TN, and CO will be good experiments.

What you forget are those "FACTS" are based on the environment of lockdown and not what the virus would be doing without a lockdown.

I already explained to you that Doctors disagree with you. Only time will tell if I am right or you're right. Why do disagree with that?

 

[jc456]

You disagree that isolation causes depression, drug abuse and alcoholism? You don’t think isolation and loss of business is damaging? That damages those who are and are not impacted by COVID, which mostly impacts those who are elderly and or unhealthy. We never did that study but just locked us all in.

The problem is Azog, your God is the almighty dollar. Some of us just aren't into it as much as you. shrug...

Nope. It’s freedom!

Sincere question for my friend AtD:

Q: What is "Freedom" without health?
A: Precarious at best

Would you disagree?

That is up to those who choose to take that risk. COVID-19 impacts a tiny percentage severely. I do not believe I should be under the same restriction as someone who is less healthy.

I just tested positive for antibodies AtD. IOW I HAD it somewhere around mid January shortly after returning from Hawaii and the morning of another Vacay to San Diego mid-January which I cancelled the morning of. You should know what I hope that YOUR health pros SHOULD be telling you:

We do not yet know yet whether antibodies mean that you're safe and that it won't come around to bite you again in the Fall.

According to WHO...

View attachment 329127

However, they removed that tweet, soon after.

Knowing that they're the one who said that there is no evidence of human-to-human transmission, can you trust them at all?

Now, let's say you can get re-infected (just like you can get re-infected with flu), does that mean we should kill economy in the fall again for three months?

If we don't have a vaccine by then and another 60,000 people drop dead, then yes. So WHO removed a tweet? BFD! Scientists the world over still don't know to what degree antibodies for this novel virus render a person immune, or provide any defense against reinfection whatsoever. These things take time.

Hey man, if you're itching to get back out in the world - Cool, go to Albany GA, get a haircut, a fresh tattoo, and then pile like a good little fearless sardine into a pub to celebrate your bravery. We don't miss ya if something goes haywire.

If the majority of those who die go out without masks and gloves then they deserve to die.
The assholes riding the NYC subways don't wear masks.

Masks don't protect you from getting it but protect others if you have it. So everyone should wear one just in case for the foreseeable future.

If so, than why doctors are wearing masks?

They wear different masks than you and I would. Their masks are protective. But it is to protect the patient too.

What makes you think I don't wear the same medical grade mask?

The purpose of the mask, gloves, and any other protective equipment is primarily to protect yourself.

amen, If I don't want to wear one, I don't constitutionally have to. anyone who doesn't like that can go dig up the veterans that died to give me that right. so now all you jack offs stay in your lane and I'll stay in mine.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Well, you may be good at counting your merino sheep, or herding kangaroos, keep doing it, it keeps your mind away from complex issues.

...and from conspiracy theorist whackadoodles it seems...

Riiiight... when you don't like what you hear, it's CONNNSPIIIIRASYYYY!

View attachment 329458

Yep, just like David Koresh and Timothy McVeigh used to say.

Cannot base your life on outliers.

The thinking is the same, and the results are the same..

So every NBA player is Michael Jordan and LeBron James?

Come on man.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

So you are saying that I have an equal chance of catching the virus if I'm at home alone or if I'm in a packed football stadium?

You don't go outside to get mail, to get groceries, to put out the trash? Evidence shows not for everyone but for most, lockdowns don't change your odds. Don't kill the messenger.

You don't catch the virus by going outside, dope.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

So you are saying that I have an equal chance of catching the virus if I'm at home alone or if I'm in a packed football stadium?

You don't go outside to get mail, to get groceries, to put out the trash? Evidence shows not for everyone but for most, lockdowns don't change your odds. Don't kill the messenger.

You don't catch the virus by going outside, dope.

When did I say "outside"? Learn to read.

 

[meaner gene]

What you forget are those "FACTS" are based on the environment of lockdown and not what the virus would be doing without a lockdown.

You're disproving the OP. The original projections were for 1 - 2 millions deaths in the US from the coronavirus. Now that estimate is down to 60K - 120K, because of the lockdowns.

Since the other guy loves "numbers" that means lockdowns are over 90% effective.

 

[meaner gene]

Any problem starts with a single instance. At which point you could claim it's only one in billions, whether AIDS, or Spanish flu, or the coronavirus.

Downplaying the early stages only means we don't prepare for the onslaught when it goes exponential.

How many other diseases did we have that fizzled out? We didn't lock the world down over AIDS. COVID is a cold. COVID-19 is a really really really bad cold.

We didn't lock the world down because we didn't know better. That's why the black plague killed 1/3rd of all the people on earth, and the Spanish flu killed 1/30th of the population.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Any problem starts with a single instance. At which point you could claim it's only one in billions, whether AIDS, or Spanish flu, or the coronavirus.

Downplaying the early stages only means we don't prepare for the onslaught when it goes exponential.

How many other diseases did we have that fizzled out? We didn't lock the world down over AIDS. COVID is a cold. COVID-19 is a really really really bad cold.

We didn't lock the world down because we didn't know better. That's why the black plague killed 1/3rd of all the people on earth, and the Spanish flu killed 1/30th of the population.

That is ancient history. We live in modern times. SARS and Bird Flu we did really well. Stop being such a chicken.

 

[meaner gene]

amen, If I don't want to wear one, I don't constitutionally have to. anyone who doesn't like that can go dig up the veterans that died to give me that right. so now all you jack offs stay in your lane and I'll stay in mine.

Constitutional right not to wear a mask? Where did you get that. Don't you remember in the 1960's they forced every able bodied man to carry a draft card. If they can make you carry a card, they can make you wear a mask.

 

[Pogo]

Any problem starts with a single instance. At which point you could claim it's only one in billions, whether AIDS, or Spanish flu, or the coronavirus.

Downplaying the early stages only means we don't prepare for the onslaught when it goes exponential.

How many other diseases did we have that fizzled out? We didn't lock the world down over AIDS. COVID is a cold. COVID-19 is a really really really bad cold.

We didn't lock the world down because we didn't know better. That's why the black plague killed 1/3rd of all the people on earth, and the Spanish flu killed 1/30th of the population.

That is ancient history. We live in modern times. SARS and Bird Flu we did really well. Stop being such a chicken.

"Bird flu" >>> "chicken". Bwahaha, fowl language in the quote nest. Cackle cackle.

 

[meaner gene]

Any problem starts with a single instance. At which point you could claim it's only one in billions, whether AIDS, or Spanish flu, or the coronavirus.

Downplaying the early stages only means we don't prepare for the onslaught when it goes exponential.

How many other diseases did we have that fizzled out? We didn't lock the world down over AIDS. COVID is a cold. COVID-19 is a really really really bad cold.

We didn't lock the world down because we didn't know better. That's why the black plague killed 1/3rd of all the people on earth, and the Spanish flu killed 1/30th of the population.

That is ancient history. We live in modern times. SARS and Bird Flu we did really well. Stop being such a chicken.

We had the people and the resources in place for those pandemics. Testing, vaccines, medications. We didn't have to "flatten the curve" to keep from overwhelming the medical system.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Any problem starts with a single instance. At which point you could claim it's only one in billions, whether AIDS, or Spanish flu, or the coronavirus.

Downplaying the early stages only means we don't prepare for the onslaught when it goes exponential.

How many other diseases did we have that fizzled out? We didn't lock the world down over AIDS. COVID is a cold. COVID-19 is a really really really bad cold.

We didn't lock the world down because we didn't know better. That's why the black plague killed 1/3rd of all the people on earth, and the Spanish flu killed 1/30th of the population.

That is ancient history. We live in modern times. SARS and Bird Flu we did really well. Stop being such a chicken.

"Bird flu" >>> "chicken". Bwahaha, fowl language in the quote nest. Cackle cackle.

Avian Influenza?

 

[jc456]

So why are the healthy people being ordered to stay at home?

1. You don't know whether you are healthy or not since we have no widespread testing 2. If you have it but are asymptomatic, you can spread to others or even kill grandma 3. Nobody is "ordering" you to stay at home - You can go for a drive, go grocery shopping .. even to the hardware store and 4. Have you injected your daily disinfectant yet?

I do know I am healthy.
I don't have it, so I can't spread it.
If I am not allowed to go to my second home, or to visit my neighbor, or go on a lake... yes, I am ordered to stay at home.
Of course I did. That's why I am healthy.

looks like playtime wanted you dead.

 

[jc456]

Quick question...................if Trump is handling the virus problem so well, why is it that the US has 1/3 of the COVID 19 infections world wide? We don't have 1/3 of the worlds population.

fudged numbers, it's what demofks do best. BTW, there is evidence to that.

it's not the people who vote that matters, it is the people that counts them.

Did Stalin Say, 'It's Not the People Who Vote That Count ...'?

One version of a quote about those who count votes determining the outcomes of elections was attributed to Joseph Stalin in a book by his former secretary.

www.snopes.com

Joseph Stalin said some version of "It's not the people who vote that count, it's the people who count the votes."

 

[meaner gene]

"Bird flu" >>> "chicken". Bwahaha, fowl language in the quote nest. Cackle cackle.

Avian Influenza?

The president called the pandemic a "war". And this has becomes Trumps vietnam, with more dead americans than we had in vietnam. And the war is far from over, and ending the lockdown is like surrendering, and becoming prisoners of war.

 

[meaner gene]

Quick question...................if Trump is handling the virus problem so well, why is it that the US has 1/3 of the COVID 19 infections world wide? We don't have 1/3 of the worlds population.

fudged numbers, it's what demofks do best. BTW, there is evidence to that.

it's not the number of votes that matters, it is how you count them.

Meat packing used to report they had only a couple of coronavirus positive employees. Then they started widespread testing and some companies went from a few, to almost 1/3rd of their workers infected.

The more we test, the higher the numbers go. So is the truth based on ignorance, or on knowledge?

 

[jc456]

Any problem starts with a single instance. At which point you could claim it's only one in billions, whether AIDS, or Spanish flu, or the coronavirus.

Downplaying the early stages only means we don't prepare for the onslaught when it goes exponential.

How many other diseases did we have that fizzled out? We didn't lock the world down over AIDS. COVID is a cold. COVID-19 is a really really really bad cold.

We didn't lock the world down because we didn't know better. That's why the black plague killed 1/3rd of all the people on earth, and the Spanish flu killed 1/30th of the population.

That is ancient history. We live in modern times. SARS and Bird Flu we did really well. Stop being such a chicken.

We had the people and the resources in place for those pandemics. Testing, vaccines, medications. We didn't have to "flatten the curve" to keep from overwhelming the medical system.

we didn't overwhelm the medical system. they are furloughing nurses and doctors. you're a sheep.

 

[jc456]

"Bird flu" >>> "chicken". Bwahaha, fowl language in the quote nest. Cackle cackle.

Avian Influenza?

The president called the pandemic a "war". And this has becomes Trumps vietnam, with more dead americans than we had in vietnam. And the war is far from over, and ending the lockdown is like surrendering, and becoming prisoners of war.

all fudged numbers. thanks, but they already admitted it.

 

[meaner gene]

That is ancient history. We live in modern times. SARS and Bird Flu we did really well. Stop being such a chicken.

We had the people and the resources in place for those pandemics. Testing, vaccines, medications. We didn't have to "flatten the curve" to keep from overwhelming the medical system.

we didn't overwhelm the medical system. they are furloughing nurses and doctors. you're a sheep.

We didn't overwhelm the medical system because we shut down the country and put people on lockdown.

Which is what disproved the OP in the first place.

We went from an exponential curve that would overwhelm the medical system, to your admitting it didn't happen, and the curve got flattened. And there is only one reason for that success. LOCKDOWN

It worked. Case closed.