Make the Gun Companies Pay Blood Money

[JoeB131]

[
Well.. I guess we did not have suicides for CENTURIES

You sell people way too short... you and your liberal brethren think you are the only ones who can handle something mentally and everyone else is helpless...

And no.. the intruder is not always initiating the action.. many MANY times the intruder is caught off guard and unaware as well

Sorry Charlie, you are still an idiot totalitarian

Yes, we did have them for centuries.

Back in the days when ovens were still fired by coal gas, it was a common method to kill yourself to turn on the gas and stick your head in the oven.

Then ovens were redesigned to burn natural (petroleum) gas instead, and guess what, not only did that method of suicide vanish, but overall, suicides declined by 33%.

I don't sell people short, I look at the actual numbers.

According to the FBI, there were only 200 cases where a firearm was used by a civilian to kill a criminal in self-defense.

Compare that to

19,000 guns suicides.
11,000 gun murders
800 gun accidental deaths.

Helpless? Maybe not? Useful? Definitely not.

 

[DiamondDave]

[
Well.. I guess we did not have suicides for CENTURIES

You sell people way too short... you and your liberal brethren think you are the only ones who can handle something mentally and everyone else is helpless...

And no.. the intruder is not always initiating the action.. many MANY times the intruder is caught off guard and unaware as well

Sorry Charlie, you are still an idiot totalitarian

Yes, we did have them for centuries.

Back in the days when ovens were still fired by coal gas, it was a common method to kill yourself to turn on the gas and stick your head in the oven.

Then ovens were redesigned to burn natural (petroleum) gas instead, and guess what, not only did that method of suicide vanish, but overall, suicides declined by 33%.

I don't sell people short, I look at the actual numbers.

According to the FBI, there were only 200 cases where a firearm was used by a civilian to kill a criminal in self-defense.

Compare that to

19,000 guns suicides.
11,000 gun murders
800 gun accidental deaths.

Helpless? Maybe not? Useful? Definitely not.

Yet the number of crimes averted by a firearm without death was huge.. and this has been posted for you to see MANY times...

So.. you in your infinite wisdom, even if the home defender would be at a disadvantage, would then put the home defender at EVEN MORE OF A DISADVANTAGE.. This is your solution??

Sorry, totalitarian asshole, I don't need you to protect against every aspect of life

 

[Skull Pilot]

Guns make it easier to kill people.

Next.

So do knives, baseball bats, lead pipes, steel toed boots, etc ad nauseum.

 

[martybegan]

[
Well.. I guess we did not have suicides for CENTURIES

You sell people way too short... you and your liberal brethren think you are the only ones who can handle something mentally and everyone else is helpless...

And no.. the intruder is not always initiating the action.. many MANY times the intruder is caught off guard and unaware as well

Sorry Charlie, you are still an idiot totalitarian

Yes, we did have them for centuries.

Back in the days when ovens were still fired by coal gas, it was a common method to kill yourself to turn on the gas and stick your head in the oven.

Then ovens were redesigned to burn natural (petroleum) gas instead, and guess what, not only did that method of suicide vanish, but overall, suicides declined by 33%.

I don't sell people short, I look at the actual numbers.

According to the FBI, there were only 200 cases where a firearm was used by a civilian to kill a criminal in self-defense.

Compare that to

19,000 guns suicides.
11,000 gun murders
800 gun accidental deaths.

Helpless? Maybe not? Useful? Definitely not.

No one banned coal fired ovens, natural gas ones took over naturally. Also there is no consitutional right to a coal fired oven.

Keep trying, dime store hack.

 

[Skull Pilot]

[
Well.. I guess we did not have suicides for CENTURIES

You sell people way too short... you and your liberal brethren think you are the only ones who can handle something mentally and everyone else is helpless...

And no.. the intruder is not always initiating the action.. many MANY times the intruder is caught off guard and unaware as well

Sorry Charlie, you are still an idiot totalitarian

Yes, we did have them for centuries.

Back in the days when ovens were still fired by coal gas, it was a common method to kill yourself to turn on the gas and stick your head in the oven.

Then ovens were redesigned to burn natural (petroleum) gas instead, and guess what, not only did that method of suicide vanish, but overall, suicides declined by 33%.

I don't sell people short, I look at the actual numbers.

According to the FBI, there were only 200 cases where a firearm was used by a civilian to kill a criminal in self-defense.

Compare that to

19,000 guns suicides.
11,000 gun murders
800 gun accidental deaths.

Helpless? Maybe not? Useful? Definitely not.

Why does your definition of preventing a violent crime with a gun have to end up with someone getting killed?

Tell me how many times was a crime foiled with a gun where no shots were fired or when a shot was fired and missed?

But then again it's asking a lot for you to be honest with your beloved statistics.

 

[martybegan]

[
Well.. I guess we did not have suicides for CENTURIES

You sell people way too short... you and your liberal brethren think you are the only ones who can handle something mentally and everyone else is helpless...

And no.. the intruder is not always initiating the action.. many MANY times the intruder is caught off guard and unaware as well

Sorry Charlie, you are still an idiot totalitarian

Yes, we did have them for centuries.

Back in the days when ovens were still fired by coal gas, it was a common method to kill yourself to turn on the gas and stick your head in the oven.

Then ovens were redesigned to burn natural (petroleum) gas instead, and guess what, not only did that method of suicide vanish, but overall, suicides declined by 33%.

I don't sell people short, I look at the actual numbers.

According to the FBI, there were only 200 cases where a firearm was used by a civilian to kill a criminal in self-defense.

Compare that to

19,000 guns suicides.
11,000 gun murders
800 gun accidental deaths.

Helpless? Maybe not? Useful? Definitely not.

Why does your definition of preventing a violent crime with a gun have to end up with someone getting killed?

Tell me how many times was a crime foiled with a gun where no shots were fired or when a shot was fired and missed?

But then again it's asking a lot for you to be honest with your beloved statistics.

One also has to take into account the deterrence effect guns have from preventing someone from starting a criminal activity in the first place. Look at England, which has a far higher violent crime rate than we do because the yobs know that thier victims are going to be unarmed.

 

[legaleagle_45]

[

Family members are far more likely to kill themselves with prescription medication than guns.

Maybe we need to get rid of pharmaceuticals too.

THat's not true, either.

Suicide Statistics at Suicide.org! Suicide Statistics, Suicide Statistics, Suicide Statistics, Suicide Statistics, Suicide Statistics!

Suicide Methods
Rate Per
Number 100,000 % of Total
Firearms.................................................16,869........5.9.........55.1
Hanging or Suffocation.............................6,198........2.2.........20.2
Poisoning (including by drugs)..................5,191........1.8.........17.0

But if you want to go there, I have no problem regulating guns the way we regulate prescription drugs.

Yet in excess of 40,000 people are killed annually in the USA by poisoning... thus family members are more likely to be killed by poisoning than by firearms.

 

[Harry Dresden]

[

With that statement anything you say about gun control = gun banning, and thus makes you someone to ignore when it comes to gun policy in general.

And once again all you are doing is giving the advantage to the person robbing the house at the cost of those defending it. Criminals dont follow laws.

One more time.

Japan has banned handguns.

They had all of 11 gun homicides last year.

We had 11,000.

Banning guns CAN work.

in Japan just about everyone is on the same page Joe.....here there is about a million different pages.....and how would you go about banning guns in this Country?....especially with those that already have them?..........

 

[martybegan]

[

Family members are far more likely to kill themselves with prescription medication than guns.

Maybe we need to get rid of pharmaceuticals too.

THat's not true, either.

Suicide Statistics at Suicide.org! Suicide Statistics, Suicide Statistics, Suicide Statistics, Suicide Statistics, Suicide Statistics!

Suicide Methods
Rate Per
Number 100,000 % of Total
Firearms.................................................16,869........5.9.........55.1
Hanging or Suffocation.............................6,198........2.2.........20.2
Poisoning (including by drugs)..................5,191........1.8.........17.0

But if you want to go there, I have no problem regulating guns the way we regulate prescription drugs.

Yet in excess of 40,000 people are killed annually in the USA by poisoning... thus family members are more likely to be killed by poisoning than by firearms.

Also Drug OD's are far more difficult to figure out if they are suicides, or accidental overdoses. A gun suicide is usually far more clear cut.

 

[legaleagle_45]

19,000 guns suicides.
11,000 gun murders
800 gun accidental deaths.

Helpless? Maybe not? Useful? Definitely not.

You inflate gun murders by approximately 3,000 as not all firearm homicides are murder (or non negligent homicide- which is included in the murder statistic by the FBI). Some are justified homicides, some are excusable homicide and some are negligent homicides.

The latest report available from CDC is 2010 and reports 606 accidental gun deaths.

The World Health Organization reports

“[R]emoving an easy and favored method of suicide was not likely to affect substantially the overall suicide rate because other methods would be chosen.”

World Health Organization, Changing Patterns in Suicide Behavior

Certainly, Joyce funded studies which are based solely on US data (they will always exclude other countries when studying suicide) will show states with higher per capita gun ownership levels or homes with firearms present will have higher suicide rates.

The primary problems with these studies is two fold. The first is linked correlation where the same factor is positively associated with two independent criteria-- an example is the high death rate in hospitals. Hospital do not cause people to die at a higher rate, instead very sick people tend to go to hospitals and very sick people die at a higher rate. The two independent criteria are linked by the causative factor for both... that being very sick people... So how does this work with firearms and suicide? Rural areas will generally have significantly higher suicide rates than urban area due to the isolation factor and the lack of a social support network. This is true internationally as well as in the US, with rural areas generally having a greater suicide rate than urban areas. In the US, you are also much more likely to have a firearm if you live in a rural area than in an urban area. Thus places like Alaska and Montana will have high levels of gun ownership and a higher suicide rate, yet the suicide rate in Alaska is comparable to the suicide rate in the Northwest Territories and the suicide rate in Montana is comparable to the rate in Saskatchewan Thus linked correlation.

The 2nd issue is confusing cause and effect vs. effect and cause. A person who wishes to commit suicide may decide to employ a firearm for that purpose and specifically obtain one to commit suicide. Some Joyce studies will point out that the suicide rate is much higher in the first two weeks after the purchase of a firearm.. as if a firearm gives off evil vibes compelling a person to commit suicide. This is not the case, a person who is intent upon suicide will choose firearms as the preferred methodology and will obtain one for that specific purpose. As the study from the World Health Organization shows, if firearms were unavailable another method would be chosen and the suicide rate would not be changed significantly.

The normal argument concerning suicide is the fatality associated with firearms. The WHO study explains this and indicates that there are 2 distinct types of suicide attempts. The first is merely a cry for help and the person will invariably employ a method (either consciously or subconsciously) which does not result in death. The second is where the person actually does wish to die and the person will invariably employ a method (either consciously or subconsciously) which does result in death. This helps explains why gun free Japan has a suicide rate which is substantially greater than our combined homicide suicide rate. Stepping in front of a bullet train is just as lethal as shooting a bullet into ones brain.

 

[PredFan]

Ho hum, another left wing gun grabbing baby crying because the NRA and the rights guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment continually trump their tyrannical need to control other people.

Waah waah wahh

 

[Spoonman]

[

Excuse me while I stand over here and LMFAO.

Tell you what. You use your non lethal weapon to protect your house.

Me? I'll use my shotgun.

Bet my house is better defended than yours and oh yeah. Anyone breaking into my house will be fucking dead.

Once law breakers know your an easy mark with your non lethal weapon they will be back.

My lawbreakers, not so much.

I've known too many people who've buried family members who killed themselves with that gun they bought for protection.

Gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than a bad guy.

And frankly, you guys spend too much time fantasizing about killing people. I think what Obama said about Clinging to Guns and Bibles was right on the money.

This is complete and utter crap.

The purpose of having a gun in the home is not to KILL a bad guy, it is to keep a bad guy from killing oneself.

i love how these lib idiots make up total bullshit. they don't have facts to back up their asinine claims so they wing it. I'd love to see JoeB show a link that proves there are 43 times more accidental deaths than homicides. He has to be nothing more than a troll. No one can be that stupid.

 

[Spoonman]

[
Well.. I guess we did not have suicides for CENTURIES

You sell people way too short... you and your liberal brethren think you are the only ones who can handle something mentally and everyone else is helpless...

And no.. the intruder is not always initiating the action.. many MANY times the intruder is caught off guard and unaware as well

Sorry Charlie, you are still an idiot totalitarian

Yes, we did have them for centuries.

Back in the days when ovens were still fired by coal gas, it was a common method to kill yourself to turn on the gas and stick your head in the oven.

Then ovens were redesigned to burn natural (petroleum) gas instead, and guess what, not only did that method of suicide vanish, but overall, suicides declined by 33%.

I don't sell people short, I look at the actual numbers.

According to the FBI, there were only 200 cases where a firearm was used by a civilian to kill a criminal in self-defense.

Compare that to

19,000 guns suicides.
11,000 gun murders
800 gun accidental deaths.

Helpless? Maybe not? Useful? Definitely not.

those numbers fall a little short of your claim that a gun in the house is 43 times more likely to kill a family member then a bad guy. Congratulations, you just burned your own ass.

 

[Crackerjaxon]

[

With that statement anything you say about gun control = gun banning, and thus makes you someone to ignore when it comes to gun policy in general.

And once again all you are doing is giving the advantage to the person robbing the house at the cost of those defending it. Criminals dont follow laws.

One more time.

Japan has banned handguns.

They had all of 11 gun homicides last year.

We had 11,000.

Banning guns CAN work.

in Japan just about everyone is on the same page Joe.....here there is about a million different pages.....and how would you go about banning guns in this Country?....especially with those that already have them?..........

So Americans should adopt harikari as the preferred mode of suicide, I guess.

Liberals just don't get the idea of people being responsible for their actions. They believe that people should be treated like children and only they, being vastly intellectually superior, are the only ones qualified to take care of them.

 

[OldUSAFSniper]

I don't know how else to say it. Banning guns will start a freakin WAR. Do you think for a second that the people where I live are going to allow the federal government to come into our homes and take what we've had for centuries? We already do NOT trust the federal government and don't like it sticking its nose into our business. We already KNOW that the federal government is taking our rights more and more every year. And now, you think that you're going to do away with privately owned firearms. Drop the crack pipe and step back you moron.

I WILL NOT give up the weapons I have. PERIOD. I don't care what laws you enact in Washington DC, I don't care how many liberally biased statistics you drool out of your mouth over and over again. My family has owned weapons for as long as I can remember and we have NEVER lost anyone to a firearm weapon BECAUSE we teach our young children about weapons literally as soon as they can walk. Our weapons are not only for home defense, but also for hunting. They are also there because we must have them for our day-to-day work. Ever step out of a pickup and hear something that sounds like a baby rattle? And I'll bet it's dirtbags like you that take the dogs you don't want out into the country and just let them go. They wind up getting into packs and hunting the animals I make a living off of. Ever come face-to-face with four very large pit bulls who are mostly wild and will tear you to pieces to eat that calf? I want to see you bend down and try to persuade them to be nice, "Good doggie." Dipstick.

You know, the ignorance that you spew is incredible. There is one gun manufacturer here in Oklahoma. Hopefully, now that Conneticut has shown they don't want the ones in their state, we can talk Ruger or Colt into coming here. We passed a law that says guns manufactured and sold in this state are exempt from federal regulations and taxes. Wyoming and Montana has the same law and other states are going to pass similar laws.

I'm glad I don't live around your neighborhood. I'm not sure this level of ignorance isn't something you can catch...

 

[LogikAndReazon]

Liberals could end all violence in this country if they could only get their central planning, socialist engineering, and redistributive justice schemes just right......

Fascist bureaucratic controls for the utopian public good !!!!!!!!

 

[The2ndAmendment]

[

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhahaha

So it's ok that he disarmed "those worthless Jew rats" hahahahaha

The few Jews that made the mistake of remaining in Germany lost all their privilages and rights, not just gun ownership, which was expanded for germany. I think they were more concerned the state was taking their lives and property than their guns.

In occuppied countries- guess what, they were occuppied. No one let's a defeated, occuppied country keep their guns. Oh, maybe Dubya Bush, and we saw how well that worked out.

Did you know that 300 of those "worthless Jewish rats" held the entire German army out of their ghetto for more than a month? Imagine if they had 3,000 armed Jews? What if they had 30,000 armed Jews? God, imagine if they had 300,000 armed Jews?

Actually, the Warsaw Ghetto uprising was a sad joke. They waited four years before trying to take on the Germans, only rose up because the Soviet Army was getting close, and got wiped out when the Soviets decided they'd let the Germans save them the trouble of killing them.

Here's the gag. Every resistance and insurgency against Nazi occupation was pretty worthless, and every conquered country had more collaborators than resistance.

So that's why you endorse those guns laws, you want who you deem "undesirable" to be disarmed. hahahahahah

Now everyone knows what scum you are.

Well, yeah, it is undesirable to have you murder-lusting morons owning guns. Guys who spend days and days fantasizing about how they are going to plug that burglar.

He doesn't even mention the armed Jews that roamed the forests... or any of the other militant groups that managed to survive.

SCUM

NAZI SCUM

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pewWLVM9IXI]The bear Jew scene! (Inglorious Bastards) - YouTube[/ame]

Let this thread end with a mark forever on JoeB131:

 

[legaleagle_45]

The Nazis did make guns more easily available to average Germans. Sorry.

No they did not, Sorry. What they did was formally acknowledge what was already the practice of the Weimar Republic, which considered the blanket restricitions a result to the Versailles treaty and were officially ignored.

the notion that the people would "rise up" against a dictatorship was a fallacy.

That I can agree with. At no point was armed revolt a concern for Hitler.

The dictator made guns more available,

Incorrect. He made them less available in that he used registration lists compiled by the Weimar Republic to disarm opponents and suspected opponents, not merely jews, but communists and other potential adversaries. The so called broadening of gun rights is a fallacy not based upon reality... a form over substance argument.

Today, Germany has little private gun ownership, little crime, little murder, and only has to lock up 78,000 people compared to our 2 million.

Germany is one of the most heavily personally armed countries in Europe, having over 31 privately owned firearms for every 100 in population and the Waffengesetz [Weapons Act] is much more accomidating than was the law in either Chicago or DC pre Heller and McDonald. In comparison, the UK has a gun ownership of 6.2 per 100 and the US 88 per 100. The Homicide rate in Germany is 0.8/100,000 while the UK has a homicide rate of 1.2. It is interesting to note that far from being a straight line correlation between homicide rates and gun ownership rates in Europe, their appears to be an inverse relationship, with high ownership countries such as Sweeden, Norway, Iceland, Germany Switzerland and Austria have statistically signifcantly lower homicide rates than low gun ownership countries such as the Netherlands, Belguim and Luxembourg.

 

[MikeK]

Guns make it easier to kill people.

Next.

So does the unnecessary use of automobiles.

 

[MikeK]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/24/opinion/make-gun-companies-pay-blood-money.html?_r=0

But there is a simple and direct way to make them accountable for the harm their products cause. For every gun sold, those who manufacture or import it should pay a tax. The money should then be used to create a compensation fund for innocent victims of gun violence.

This proposal is based on a fundamentally conservative principle — that those who cause injury should be made to “internalize” the cost of their activity by paying for it. Now, gun manufacturers and sellers are mostly protected from lawsuits by federal law.

As it happens, a model for this approach already exists. Under the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, those injured by vaccines are eligible for compensation from a fund financed by an excise tax on the sale of every dose of vaccine. In creating this no-fault system in the 1980s, Congress sought to provide care for those injured by vaccines while protecting manufacturers from undue litigation.

Unconstitutional

Plain and simple

As well as un-American.

Guns are an integral part of American culture. Without access to guns there would be no America. Guns are the symbol of American Liberty. The annual firearms casualty rate is the price we pay for that sense of Liberty.