Zone1 Mandelbrot Sets -- Proof of God?

[ding]

Free will is great. Getting Covid or getting struck by lightening, that is a bitch.

Complexities of life make it hard for some to see the forest for the trees.

 

[alang1216]

Complexities of life make it hard for some to see the forest for the trees.

And others refuse to believe what their eyes tell them.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Absolutely. I'm here to find people I would otherwise never encounter in my world. Whatever else ding is, ding is not an idiot, and I get enjoyment interacting with a smart person. Why else would anyone come here?

Fair enough, I suppose. Although Clyde Barrow was apparently smart and I wouldn't come here to converse with him either.

 

[ding]

And others refuse to believe what their eyes tell them.

Such as?

 

[alang1216]

Such as?

What you see is what you get.

 

[ding]

What you see is what you get.

How do you know?

 

[alang1216]

How do you know?

Because I never got anything I couldn't see.

 

[ding]

Because I never got anything I couldn't see.

That answer doesn't instill a lot of confidence. Everything is made up of the exact same stuff, right? How do you know you aren't part of a computer simulation or some other alternate reality; a construct?

 

[alang1216]

That answer doesn't instill a lot of confidence. Everything is made up of the exact same stuff, right? How do you know you aren't part of a computer simulation or some other alternate reality; a construct?

Until I find evidence to the contrary, I'll go with Occam's Razor.

 

[zaangalewa]

Incommensurability is the first thing suggested to me.

Math clearly arrived first (meaning from negative infinity forward). Energy and matter next. Then life and people. Then "design" and gods.

And then they made math and sent it into the beginning? (Which was what on what reason when it came from nowhere and made everything we know and much more what we ¿still? don't know?)

Im Anfang war das Wort
Anton Zeilinger
In the beginning was the word

 

[zaangalewa]

Until I find evidence to the contrary, I'll go with Occam's Razor.

There's no universe so everything what we think about is only an illusion?

 

[zaangalewa]

... Christians fear Muslims, ...

What a nonsense. Muslims fear Christians. That's why Muslims murdered and murder in masses Christians. Same with atheists.

 

[zaangalewa]

Creationists gonna be creationists. If it looks complex and men didn't create it then it must've been created by a god.

If it is simple and everyone understands it then is was also created from god. You are for example also part of the creation of god. Or in a philosophical (=scientific) way to see the world we Christians say somehow everyone is subjective and no one is objective - asides that Christians say also no one should be handled as if he would be only an object. We are damned subjective, aren't we? Or do you think "love" is objective?

 

[zaangalewa]

Here is the Set definition
"The" Mandelbrot set is the set obtained from the quadratic recurrence equation

​

​

with

, where points

in the complex plane for which the orbit of

does not tend to infinity are in the set. Setting

equal to any point in the set that is not a periodic point gives the same result. The Mandelbrot set was originally called a

molecule by Mandelbrot. J. Hubbard and A. Douady proved that the Mandelbrot set is connected .

It represents a natural "life progression" and not a formula imposed by a God .
It is not a Code to be read in message terms , it is how you can best define occurrences after the fact .

So people need to be careful about the type of discussion which is a Cart before the Horse argument

z is in case of the Mandelbrot set a complex number (z=a+bi and i*i=-1). The set is a result of the recursive structure z<-z^2+c. The Mandelbrot set and the Feigenbaum diagram (growth of degrees of freedom) belong together.

 

[ding]

Until I find evidence to the contrary, I'll go with Occam's Razor.

You mean a simple explanation like intelligence comes from intelligence? Or existence comes from existence? How does that not match our reality proceeded from another reality? Isn't THAT the explanation with the fewest assumptions?

 

[alang1216]

You mean a simple explanation like intelligence comes from intelligence? Or existence comes from existence? How does that not match our reality proceeded from another reality? Isn't THAT the explanation with the fewest assumptions?

You are a chauvinist. You think that because you are intelligent, the universe somehow was created with you in mind, that you are some kind of end product of creation. You may or may not be right but I see no evidence either way. Same for existence. The universe may have been created or it may have always been around in some form or another. It may or may not be but I see no definitive evidence either way.

 

[Grumblenuts]

And then they made math and sent it into the beginning?

Like crows, humans only discover and rediscover math. We make none.

Thanks for that Veritasium video link though. Extremely topical and one of his better ones for sure.


For any interested, here's a free pdf link to the acclaimed Robert May article mentioned:

https://sites.ifi.unicamp.br/aguiar/files/2014/10/May-Nature-1976.pdf

 

[zaangalewa]

Like crows, humans only discover and rediscover math. We make none.

If we really make none: Where's Platons real word of ideas?



Die Eltern lagen schon und schliefen, die Wanduhr schlug ihren einförmigen Takt, vor den klappernden Fenstern sauste der Wind; abwechselnd wurde die Stube hell von dem Schimmer des Mondes. Der Jüngling lag unruhig auf seinem Lager, und gedachte des Fremden und seiner Erzählungen. »Nicht die Schätze sind es, die ein so unaussprechliches Verlangen in mir geweckt haben«, sagte er zu sich selbst; »fern ab liegt mir alle Habsucht: aber die blaue Blume sehn' ich mich zu erblicken. Sie liegt mir unaufhörlich im Sinn, und ich kann nichts anderes dichten und denken. So ist mir noch nie zumute gewesen: es ist, als hätt ich vorhin geträumt, oder ich wäre in eine andere Welt hinübergeschlummert; denn in der Welt, in der ich sonst lebte, wer hätte da sich um Blumen bekümmert, und gar von einer so seltsamen Leidenschaft für eine Blume hab' ich damals nie gehört. Wo eigentlich nur der Fremde herkam? Keiner von uns hat je einen ähnlichen Menschen gesehn; doch weiß ich nicht, warum nur ich von seinen Reden so ergriffen worden bin; die andern haben ja das nämliche gehört, und keinem ist so etwas begegnet. Daß ich auch nicht einmal von meinem wunderlichen Zustande reden kann! Es ist mir oft so entzückend wohl, und nur dann, wenn ich die Blume nicht recht gegenwärtig habe, befällt mich so ein tiefes, inniges Treiben: das kann und wird keiner verstehn.
Novalis (Freiherr Friedrich von Hardenberg)
The parents were already asleep, the wall clock struck its monotonous beat, the wind whistled outside the rattling windows; the parlour was alternately illuminated by the glimmer of the moon. The youth lay restlessly on his bed, thinking of the stranger and his tales. "It is not the treasures that have awakened such an inexpressible desire in me," he said to himself; "all greed is far from me, but I long to see the blue flower. It is always on my mind, and I can think and write nothing else. I have never felt like this before: it is as if I had been dreaming just now, or had slumbered over into another world; for in the world in which I otherwise lived, who would have cared about flowers, and I never heard of such a strange passion for a flower. Where did the stranger come from? None of us had ever seen anyone like him; but I don't know why I was the only one so taken by his speeches; the others had heard the same thing, and no one had ever met anything like it. That I cannot even speak of my strange condition! I am often so delightfully well, and it is only when I am not quite in the presence of the flower that I am seized with such a deep, heartfelt emotion: no one can or will understand that.

 

[zaangalewa]

... Extremely topical and one of his better ones for sure. ....

Who has a friend like you not needs enemies.

 

[zaangalewa]

What you see is what you get.

Except it is a piano falling down on you. Maybe you are lucky if you see it - maybe not.