Zone1 Mary

[Cougarbear]

The context begins in the conversation in John. You know... the one you don't want to discuss?

I've discussed this with you many times and you don't want to realize the error of your ways. You are unable to understand rhetorical questions within a conversation. But, go ahead and explain who you think Jesus Christ was speaking to. These are the verses to discuss. We already know he was referring to Psalms 82:4 so don't go back there. Waste of time.

John 10:27 - 36
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.

30 I and my Father are one.

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

 

[BreezeWood]

The first Christians who witnessed the miracles performed by Jesus disagree.

liar

they refused to worship the serpent moses and their false commandments, abraham's hereditary idolatry et all - the repudiation of judaism is in itself the rejection of worship ...

your phony miracles used by the crucifiers to instill 4th century christianity as a religion proves the insincerity of the entire christian bible.

 

[ding]

I've discussed this with you many times and you don't want to realize the error of your ways. You are unable to understand rhetorical questions within a conversation. But, go ahead and explain who you think Jesus Christ was speaking to. These are the verses to discuss. We already know he was referring to Psalms 82:4 so don't go back there. Waste of time.

John 10:27 - 36
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.

30 I and my Father are one.

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Ok, let's back up just a bit. The setting for this passage was the feast of the Dedication which took place in Jerusalem during winter time, right?

Jesus had walked into the temple area on the Portico of Solomon and Jews gathered around him and asked him to tell them plainly if he were the Messiah, right?

That's the context of this passage, right? That Jews were asking Jesus if he were really the messiah, right?

 

[Cougarbear]

Ok, let's back up just a bit. The setting for this passage was the feast of the Dedication which took place in Jerusalem during winter time, right?

Jesus had walked into the temple area on the Portico of Solomon and Jews gathered around him and asked him to tell them plainly if he were the Messiah, right?

That's the context of this passage, right? That Jews were asking Jesus if he were really the messiah, right?

Makes no difference. No reason to back up. Just start with the verses I gave you. Read why they took up stones to kill him. He was not claiming to be the Messiah. He was claiming to be the Son of the Father God. Are you capable of this?

 

[theHawk]

If you really want to know the story of Mary, read the Mystical City of God by Mary of Agreda.

 

[ding]

Makes no difference. No reason to back up. Just start with the verses I gave you. Read why they took up stones to kill him. He was not claiming to be the Messiah. He was claiming to be the Son of the Father God. Are you capable of this?

Of course it makes a difference which is why you are dismissing it.

The setting for this passage was the feast of the Dedication which took place in Jerusalem during winter time. Jesus had walked into the temple area on the Portico of Solomon and Jews gathered around him and asked him to tell them plainly if he were the Messiah.

That's the context of this passage. That Jews were asking Jesus if he were really the messiah.

Correct or incorrect?

 

[Cougarbear]

Of course it makes a difference which is why you are dismissing it.

The setting for this passage was the feast of the Dedication which took place in Jerusalem during winter time. Jesus had walked into the temple area on the Portico of Solomon and Jews gathered around him and asked him to tell them plainly if he were the Messiah.

That's the context of this passage. That Jews were asking Jesus if he were really the messiah.

Correct or incorrect?

Jesus said he wasn't the messiah. He was but he did more than just claim to be a messiah. Claiming that would not have gotten him stoned. What he clearly did was claiming to be the Son of God, which would make him Lord Jehovah. That is the blasphemy he committed according to the Jews. Well, the Rabbinical leaders of the Jews. The Temple Priests. It makes no difference what the occasion was. The only thing important is what he claimed to be that caused the Jews to try and stone him twice. That was that he said he was Lord God or The Son of God. Is that really that hard?

So, the answer is NO! He was not claiming to be the Messiah. He was but that isn't what he was claiming to be. Read all those scriptures again that I posted. It's clear. It's plain as the nose on your face if you have one.

 

[ding]

Jesus said he wasn't the messiah. He was but he did more than just claim to be a messiah. Claiming that would not have gotten him stoned. What he clearly did was claiming to be the Son of God, which would make him Lord Jehovah. That is the blasphemy he committed according to the Jews. Well, the Rabbinical leaders of the Jews. The Temple Priests. It makes no difference what the occasion was. The only thing important is what he claimed to be that caused the Jews to try and stone him twice. That was that he said he was Lord God or The Son of God. Is that really that hard?

So, the answer is NO! He was not claiming to be the Messiah. He was but that isn't what he was claiming to be. Read all those scriptures again that I posted. It's clear. It's plain as the nose on your face if you have one.

All I am asking you is if this is what the conversation was about. That's it. Is this what the conversation was about?

 

[Cougarbear]

All I am asking you is if this is what the conversation was about. That's it. Is this what the conversation was about?

And, I said there is no mention that the Jews were inquiring on whether he is the Messiah. That wasn't their contention. It's clear that as the conversation went forward, they were trapping him into saying he was God or the Son of God which would make him a God. And, Jesus said yes, that's me. He also said that all those who accept Him are gods or sons of God as well. So, why stone him when they can also stone themselves? In Psalms 82:6, there is clarification of the position and authority each person has. It says "ye are gods, AND CHILDREN OF THE MOST HIGH (Father in Heaven). In other words, you have a possibility of being a God with power and authority, but not now. You are just learning like a god in embryo. A child. First learn to control your body, parts and passions. Gain eternal faith in God and you can be heirs of the Kingdom of the Most High (Father).

 

[ding]

And, I said there is no mention that the Jews were inquiring on whether he is the Messiah. That wasn't their contention. It's clear that as the conversation went forward, they were trapping him into saying he was God or the Son of God which would make him a God. And, Jesus said yes, that's me. He also said that all those who accept Him are gods or sons of God as well. So, why stone him when they can also stone themselves? In Psalms 82:6, there is clarification of the position and authority each person has. It says "ye are gods, AND CHILDREN OF THE MOST HIGH (Father in Heaven). In other words, you have a possibility of being a God with power and authority, but not now. You are just learning like a god in embryo. A child. First learn to control your body, parts and passions. Gain eternal faith in God and you can be heirs of the Kingdom of the Most High (Father).

So the context of the discussion wasn't that some Jews were asking Jesus to tell them plainly if he were the Messiah? Can you reference the verse that shows what they were asking Jesus?

And can you reference the verse where Jesus said all those who accept Him are gods or sons of God as well?

 

[Cougarbear]

So the context of the discussion wasn't that some Jews were asking Jesus to tell them plainly if he were the Messiah? Can you reference the verse that shows what they were asking Jesus?

And can you reference the verse where Jesus said all those who accept Him are gods or sons of God as well?

Can you reference the verse where they were asking Jesus if he were the Messiah? Nope. The word Messiah isn't there. But, the words Son of God is. This is just too easy. The thing is, you are getting caught up in terminology. The Christ can mean The Messiah and the Son of God as well. But, the fact Jesus proclaims he is the Son of God, that is what the Jews were mad about. That was the Blasphemy. And, the fact that he responded reminding them that they could also be gods, or son's of God means the Jews were mad about him saying he is Jehovah. That verse alone saying "Did I not tell you that ye are gods" proves that Jesus was calling himself Jehovah. To the Jews, Jehovah is God. End of story.

 

[ding]

Can you reference the verse where they were asking Jesus if he were the Messiah?

Sure.

Feast of the Dedication.
22 The feast of the Dedication was then taking place in Jerusalem. It was winter.
23 And Jesus walked about in the temple area on the Portico of Solomon.
24 So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long are you going to keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly."


It was exactly as I said. It was the beginning of the passage.

 

[ding]

Can you reference the verse where they were asking Jesus if he were the Messiah? Nope. The word Messiah isn't there. But, the words Son of God is. This is just too easy. The thing is, you are getting caught up in terminology. The Christ can mean The Messiah and the Son of God as well. But, the fact Jesus proclaims he is the Son of God, that is what the Jews were mad about. That was the Blasphemy. And, the fact that he responded reminding them that they could also be gods, or son's of God means the Jews were mad about him saying he is Jehovah. That verse alone saying "Did I not tell you that ye are gods" proves that Jesus was calling himself Jehovah. To the Jews, Jehovah is God. End of story.

Can you reference the verse that shows what they were asking Jesus?

And can you reference the verse where Jesus said all those who accept Him are gods or sons of God as well?

 

[ding]

The word Messiah isn't there. But, the words Son of God is. This is just too easy. The thing is, you are getting caught up in terminology. The Christ can mean The Messiah and the Son of God as well.

Actually I'm not getting caught up in that. Apparently you are. According to you, Jesus told them that he is God and that they can become Gods too. The problem is how did they respond to that? Here's a guy who is performing supernatural feats such that it makes them say who are you. And according to you he basically tells them I'm God and you can be one too.

And what was their response to that? Why wouldn't they have said we want that power too, teach us? How did they respond?