Morality of Wealth Redistribution

[dnsmith35]

The looters don't even try to justify their robbery. They proceed as it's an axiom of nature that they have the right to take what you've earned.

"The only orthodox object of the institution of government is to secure the greatest degree of happiness possible to the general mass of those associated under it."

Thomas Jefferson

How does that justify looting what I've earned?

He is incapable of realizing that his comment has nothing to do with actually giving others money, or making them happy. TJ was simply saying that the government MUST SECURE the right such that that everyone can acquire that happiness through their own responsible actions. Apparently he can't read the constitution for understanding. The most important means by which happiness can be acquired as per the Constitution is protecting our private property, not taking it capriciously as is currently done.

 

[dnsmith35]

Weird, I thought gas taxes (according to conservatives) pay for that? But no, their taxes go to the military to keep stability in the world to keep their oil costs high and profits even higher!

Are you that amazingly stupid? Tax on Gasoline? Tax on Oil, it all goes into the same pot, and that money, and MORE pays for highway infrastructure.

"Are you that amazingly stupid? Tax on Gasoline?"



Federal gas tax revenues can't keep up with spending


A bipartisan Senate proposal emerged Wednesday to rescue beleaguered federal transportation funding by raising the tax on gasoline by 12 cents a gallon


A bump at the pump? Senators propose a 12-cent hike in federal gas tax. - The Washington Post

Gland you finally agree with me. Gasoline/petroleum taxes fund the highway system. In addition your comment, "Federal gas tax revenues[/SIZE] can't keep up with spending," is also true, not just on fuel taxes, but income taxes, and all other forms of taxation, all the way back to Eisenhower.

 

[dnsmith35]

"The only orthodox object of the institution of government is to secure the greatest degree of happiness possible to the general mass of those associated under it."

Thomas Jefferson

How does that justify looting what I've earned?

Libertarians are frauds and parasites but unfortunately have been successful in hiding their dangerous disease under war hating, and freedom loving.

Gee, you left out the other wars started by Democrat administrations, like WWII, KOREA, VIETNAM. As if we don't have valid reasons to go to war when threatened. Are you that stupid?

 

[dnsmith35]

Sure it is, that's why the US spent trillions the last 70+ years to keep the middle east in 'friendly hands'

So you think it would be good for the average guy if Saddam controlled 1/3 of the world oil supply and the price of gas was $10/gal?

You mean like Europe? A libertarian who wants to control other nations. I'm shocked, no really I am

You aren't smart enough to get shocked, unless you stick your finger in an electric outlet.

 

[dnsmith35]

No, it's called government. Society and government are two separate things.



Appeal to authority. I've already explained that it's a logical fallacy.

I had a late breakfast at our local Waffle House. On the wall as we walked in I observed the Preamble to the Constitution and read it again. So perfectly worded, even the part, "to promote the general welfare." It does not say PROVIDE, give, donate, it says TO PROMOTE. I believes it means that within the scope of the comment that those WHO CANNOT PROVIDE for themselves SHOULD BE ASSISTED, and in a dignified manner. It does not say, THE GOVERNMENT SHOLD PROVIDE TO THOSE WHO REFUSE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR OWN LIVES that we will tax the responsible and give it to the irresponsible. Any one who believes that all of the people receiving assistance are unable to work believe in fairy tales.

MORE myths and fairy tales, I'm shocked

Contrary to "Entitlement Society" Rhetoric, Over Nine-Tenths of Entitlement Benefits Go to Elderly, Disabled, or Working Households''


Moreover, the vast bulk of that 9 percent goes for medical care, unemployment insurance benefits (which individuals must have a significant work history to receive), Social Security survivor benefits for the children and spouses of deceased workers, and Social Security benefits for retirees between ages 62 and 64. Seven out of the 9 percentage points go for one of these four purposes.



\

Contrary to "Entitlement Society" Rhetoric, Over Nine-Tenths of Entitlement Benefits Go to Elderly, Disabled, or Working Households ? Center on Budget and Policy Priorities



Libertarians are frauds and parasites but unfortunately have been successful in hiding their dangerous disease under war hating, and freedom loving.

Were we talking about entitlements? Especially those entitlements people have paid premiums to EARN the benefits? But that was a pretty little pie chart.

 

[dnsmith35]

"Even as a liberal and a democrat "

lol, You made me choke on my snapple

I guess you are so far left and a progressive fanatic, my being simply a liberal democrat would look conservative. Your stupidity drives you ignorance.

YOU are a Democrat of Abe's era, Southern trash!

I am a liberal Democrat, and vote for democratic candidates and support liberal values. You on the other hand are a left wing fanatic who cannot think for himself and consistently post extremist propaganda that your puppet master tells you to post.

 

[dnsmith35]

Says a Klown who believes in myths and fairy tales like Ayn Rands fables. Weird libertarians don't have ONE successful state or nation to EVER point tto that used their crap. (NO the US never did, from day one we used HEAVY protectionists policy)...

As a liberal democrat (not a left wing fanatic like daddy boy) I do not accept Ayn Rand's ideas, nor am I a libertarian, but you daddy boy are a wildly fanatic leftist without the slightest idea of that which you spout. All you do is repeat propaganda your puppeteers spew at you.

I do not accept Ayn Rand's ideas, nor am I a libertarian

HORSESHIT!

Yep, you just stuck your nose up a horse's ass and he shit. Fortunately I belong to the group of blue dog democrats who want the country to succeed such that it provides the most prosperity possible to the most people.

You in your thoughtless in ability to think, support every wild ass fanatic left wing extremist known to mankind whether it destroys the fabric of out country or endangers our economic system. You want to drain every dollar you can squeeze out of the economy without regard to how destructive that concept is.

 

[dnsmith35]

Called a SOCIETY. Don't like it?

Benjamin Franklin, Founding Father, American diplomat, statesman, and scientist; letter to Robert Morris, December 25, 1783:

"All the property that is necessary to a Man, for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species, is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition. He that does not like civil Society on these Terms, let him retire and live among Savages. He can have no right to the benefits of Society, who will not pay his Club towards the Support of it."

In fact, Federal Taxes are collected to pay for the authorized functions listed in the Constitution as Amended; and based on the 9th and 10th amendments it was not to usurp state or individual rights.

' based on the 9th and 10th amendments it was not to usurp state or individual rights'


LOL

So considering your response, you don't believe the 9th and 10th amendment are proper?

 

[dnsmith35]

Called a SOCIETY. Don't like it?

Benjamin Franklin, Founding Father, American diplomat, statesman, and scientist; letter to Robert Morris, December 25, 1783:

"All the property that is necessary to a Man, for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species, is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition. He that does not like civil Society on these Terms, let him retire and live among Savages. He can have no right to the benefits of Society, who will not pay his Club towards the Support of it."

Mr Franklin was a wealthy man and died as such while Mr Morris had been a very wealthy man who sacrificed his fortune to support the revolution and died nearly penniless.
Franklin, though I have profound respect for, was a tad hypocritical here.

I think also, that you misunderstand what was meant by "Welfare of the Publick". Franklin was NOT advocating that government should assume the responsibilities of citizens, but that it should provide such things as a military, courts and police. for the good of the "Publick".

Hypocritical? lol


WHY? You realize, though Mr Morris was the financier (Washington's banker) , he lost his money speculating right?


All the property that is necessary to a Man, for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species, is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition

Try to critically think and be honest!

We have been thinking, and as a result pointed out that you still DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU READ. Nothing in that quote suggests the government can take money from the more wealthy people for the purpose of giving it to able bodied persons who choose not to take advantage of the education that was available, choose not to work, and are generally productive to society. And that statement has nothing to do with assisting those who CANNOT WORK for some valid reason. That quote of yours has to do with the more wealthy supporting our infrastructure, defense, postal service et al, which gives every able bodied person security by which they can act responsibly.

 

[dnsmith35]

Here's something I don't think most 'redistributers' really think about. Unless the rich person in question has acquired their wealth via theft or fraud (in which case they should be locked up), they got their wealth because people wanted them to have it. What we're really saying when we claim wealth needs redistributing is that all the people that gave the wealthy their money are "doing it wrong", and their decisions need to be overridden by the state.

80% of the population owns 5% of the wealth.

Who Rules America: Wealth, Income, and Power

The middle class has been eviscerated.


"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." - Louis D. Brandeis


The problem with the conservative movement in America is that it is based on bigotry, hatred, and, greed. Above all, greed. Money is their god. They worship money and the holders of it and despise those who don't have it.

The middle class has been eviscerated by taxes.

The wealthy have no desire to keep people poor. We need customers. If you think I charge too much for my product, consider that the shot whiskey I serve is taxed $0.18. Licenses, property and inventory taxes cost thousands/ year and I must buy distilled spirits from the state and beers from approved distributors that have monopolies in their areas. Budweiser products come on one truck, Miller on a second and importeds and wine on a third. I cannot go to a independent package store or grocery and buy stock.

Hi Ernie, just a couple of tidbits I just finished reading:

Throughout history of mankind, 10% of the world's population own 80% of it's wealth. On average that is. 2% of Russia's population own 90% of it's wealth. 1% of Arab Emirates own 90% of it's wealth.

That even that is bending the truth. 80% of total value is held in businesses, which are owned by 10% of the population. They do not make that much money, they are just worth that much.

The true amount that the top 10% richest people actually get to keep is much much smaller.​

The rich invest, the poor eat all the income they have, and the middle class is afraid to do more investing for fear of losing money.

 

[dnsmith35]

Racewright, the poor do pay taxes as well as everyone else in the US. They pay sales taxes, fuel taxes, and all the fees that congress has enacted in the process of hiding taxes as fees.

All of those taxes are regressive and hurt the more the most.

 

[dnsmith35]

I personally prefer to stay away from political rhetoric, even if their is some fabric of truth in it; because, most political rhetoric is propaganda. It doesn't matter from which side of the aisle it comes from. The talking heads and the leaders of both extremist sides love to throw out rhetoric, and within that slim fabric of truth are hidden insidious lies. As far as I am concerned, if you are extremist, you are below pond scum.

 

[Ernie S.]

Seems like babydaddyto3 has retreated.

 

[Dad2three]

So you think it would be good for the average guy if Saddam controlled 1/3 of the world oil supply and the price of gas was $10/gal?

the price of oil skyrocketed BECAUSE of the Iraqi war... wars make oil prices go up, not down....

What was the price of gasoline the day obama took office? About half of what it is today.

REALLY? Forget summer 2008 BEFORE Dubya's economy crashed?

The cost of gas in June of 2008, the early stages of the heavy summer driving season and during the presidential campaign, was $4.10 per gallon. The 2008 gas crisis hit its peak one month later with prices averaging $4.11 per gallon


Face the facts: A fact check on gas prices - CBS News

 

[Dad2three]

Mr Franklin was a wealthy man and died as such while Mr Morris had been a very wealthy man who sacrificed his fortune to support the revolution and died nearly penniless.
Franklin, though I have profound respect for, was a tad hypocritical here.

I think also, that you misunderstand what was meant by "Welfare of the Publick". Franklin was NOT advocating that government should assume the responsibilities of citizens, but that it should provide such things as a military, courts and police. for the good of the "Publick".

Hypocritical? lol


WHY? You realize, though Mr Morris was the financier (Washington's banker) , he lost his money speculating right?


All the property that is necessary to a Man, for the Conservation of the Individual and the Propagation of the Species, is his natural Right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all Property superfluous to such purposes is the Property of the Publick, who, by their Laws, have created it, and who may therefore by other laws dispose of it, whenever the Welfare of the Publick shall demand such Disposition

Try to critically think and be honest!

Wrong, fool. You really should educate yourself or remain silent.

Got it you have reading comprehension issues...

 

[Dad2three]

"The only orthodox object of the institution of government is to secure the greatest degree of happiness possible to the general mass of those associated under it."

Thomas Jefferson

How does that justify looting what I've earned?

He is incapable of realizing that his comment has nothing to do with actually giving others money, or making them happy. TJ was simply saying that the government MUST SECURE the right such that that everyone can acquire that happiness through their own responsible actions. Apparently he can't read the constitution for understanding. The most important means by which happiness can be acquired as per the Constitution is protecting our private property, not taking it capriciously as is currently done.

"The farmer will see his government supported, his children educated, and the face of this country made a paradise by the contributions of the rich alone, without his being called on to spend a cent from his earnings." TJefferson



"Taxes should be proportioned to what may be annually spared by the individual." --Thomas Jefferson

"Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is
to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the
higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they
rise." --Thomas Jefferson

 

[Dad2three]

Are you that amazingly stupid? Tax on Gasoline? Tax on Oil, it all goes into the same pot, and that money, and MORE pays for highway infrastructure.

"Are you that amazingly stupid? Tax on Gasoline?"



Federal gas tax revenues can't keep up with spending


A bipartisan Senate proposal emerged Wednesday to rescue beleaguered federal transportation funding by raising the tax on gasoline by 12 cents a gallon


A bump at the pump? Senators propose a 12-cent hike in federal gas tax. - The Washington Post

Gland you finally agree with me. Gasoline/petroleum taxes fund the highway system. In addition your comment, "Federal gas tax revenues[/SIZE] can't keep up with spending," is also true, not just on fuel taxes, but income taxes, and all other forms of taxation, all the way back to Eisenhower.

Weird, the US paid off the debt once in it's history,

When The U.S. Paid Off The Entire National Debt (And Why It Didn't Last)

On Jan. 8, 1835, all the big political names in Washington gathered to celebrate what President Andrew Jackson had just accomplished. A senator rose to make the big announcement: "Gentlemen ... the national debt ... is PAID."

That was the one time in U.S. history when the country was debt free. It lasted exactly one year.

By 1837, the country would be in panic and headed into a massive depression.



To do that, he took advantage of a huge real-estate bubble that was raging in the Western U.S. The federal government owned a lot of Western land — and Jackson started selling it off.

He was also ruthless on the budget. He blocked every spending bill he could.

"He vetoed, for example, programs to build national highways," Brands says. "He considered these to be unconstitutional in the first place, but bad policy in the second place."

When Jackson took office, the national debt was about $58 million. Six years later, it was all gone. Paid off. And the government was actually running a surplus, taking in more money than it was spending.

That created a new problem: What to do with all that surplus money?

Jackson had already killed off the national bank (which he hated more than debt). So he couldn't put the money there. He decided to divide the money among the states.

But, according to economic historian , the party didn't last for long.

The state banks went a little crazy. They were printing massive amounts of money. The land bubble was out of control.

Andrew Jackson tried to slow everything down by requiring that all government land sales needed to be done with gold or silver. Bad idea.

"It was a huge crash, and the beginning of the longest depression in American history," Gordon says. "It actually lasted six years before the economy began to grow again."

During the depression, the government started borrowing money again.

When The U.S. Paid Off The Entire National Debt (And Why It Didn't Last) : Planet Money : NPR

 

[Dad2three]

How does that justify looting what I've earned?

Libertarians are frauds and parasites but unfortunately have been successful in hiding their dangerous disease under war hating, and freedom loving.

Gee, you left out the other wars started by Democrat administrations, like WWII, KOREA, VIETNAM. As if we don't have valid reasons to go to war when threatened. Are you that stupid?

Went to war in WW2? LOL

Yeah, conservatives were REALLY bothered by those wars right?

 

[Dad2three]

I had a late breakfast at our local Waffle House. On the wall as we walked in I observed the Preamble to the Constitution and read it again. So perfectly worded, even the part, "to promote the general welfare." It does not say PROVIDE, give, donate, it says TO PROMOTE. I believes it means that within the scope of the comment that those WHO CANNOT PROVIDE for themselves SHOULD BE ASSISTED, and in a dignified manner. It does not say, THE GOVERNMENT SHOLD PROVIDE TO THOSE WHO REFUSE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR OWN LIVES that we will tax the responsible and give it to the irresponsible. Any one who believes that all of the people receiving assistance are unable to work believe in fairy tales.

MORE myths and fairy tales, I'm shocked

Contrary to "Entitlement Society" Rhetoric, Over Nine-Tenths of Entitlement Benefits Go to Elderly, Disabled, or Working Households''


Moreover, the vast bulk of that 9 percent goes for medical care, unemployment insurance benefits (which individuals must have a significant work history to receive), Social Security survivor benefits for the children and spouses of deceased workers, and Social Security benefits for retirees between ages 62 and 64. Seven out of the 9 percentage points go for one of these four purposes.



\

Contrary to "Entitlement Society" Rhetoric, Over Nine-Tenths of Entitlement Benefits Go to Elderly, Disabled, or Working Households ? Center on Budget and Policy Priorities



Libertarians are frauds and parasites but unfortunately have been successful in hiding their dangerous disease under war hating, and freedom loving.

Were we talking about entitlements? Especially those entitlements people have paid premiums to EARN the benefits? But that was a pretty little pie chart.

Oh you don't mind being a moocher of your kids and grandkids, but YOU hated paying for the Gov't YOUR generation wanted. Got it!

 

[Dad2three]

I guess you are so far left and a progressive fanatic, my being simply a liberal democrat would look conservative. Your stupidity drives you ignorance.

YOU are a Democrat of Abe's era, Southern trash!

I am a liberal Democrat, and vote for democratic candidates and support liberal values. You on the other hand are a left wing fanatic who cannot think for himself and consistently post extremist propaganda that your puppet master tells you to post.

If you mean 'liberal' you mean Blue Dogs, I'm sure you do