Morality of Wealth Redistribution

[ShackledNation]

1. Humans are social are social animals. Social animals live cooperatively. Social animals display social dominance. One manifestation of social hierarchy in humans is government.

2. Government conducts the policy, actions, and affairs of (a state, organization, or people).

3. U.S. tax policy seems to rest on the idea of the social contract.The social contract basically means that because we are social creatures, who will all reap certain benefits from certain government services, taxation to provide these services is necessary and just.

Taxation is the cost of living and benefiting from society. Those who are the most successful in society benefit the most by living in society and ought to bear the highest burden.

The above paragraph is also why libertarianism fails.

1. Yes, and government is a manifestation of people trying to get from others through force what they cannot get themselves through free exchange.

2. Incredibly vague.

3. US tax policy rests on the idea of the Constitution that specifically lists what those services are. And the vast majority of what government does today is not listed at all as those services.

As for your last statement, it is wrong because what you wrote was a) not a paragraph but a list and b)not a critique of libertarianism in any way.

 

[Uncensored2008]

1. Yes, and government is a manifestation of people trying to get from others through force what they cannot get themselves through free exchange.

2. Incredibly vague.

3. US tax policy rests on the idea of the Constitution that specifically lists what those services are. And the vast majority of what government does today is not listed at all as those services.

As for your last statement, it is wrong because what you wrote was a) not a paragraph but a list and b)not a critique of libertarianism in any way.

See my post #860...

 

[Uncensored2008]

1. Humans are social are social animals. Social animals live cooperatively. Social animals display social dominance. One manifestation of social hierarchy in humans is government.

2. Government conducts the policy, actions, and affairs of (a state, organization, or people).

3. U.S. tax policy seems to rest on the idea of the social contract.The social contract basically means that because we are social creatures, who will all reap certain benefits from certain government services, taxation to provide these services is necessary and just.

Taxation is the cost of living and benefiting from society. Those who are the most successful in society benefit the most by living in society and ought to bear the highest burden.

The above paragraph is also why libertarianism fails.

Hippie, are you tripping on micro dots or blotter as you post this?

 

[CoolBreeze]

Allowing people to live off of the toil of those who work for a living is the equivalent of the plantation owner living off the toil of the slaves he/she owned. It is the addage of you earn the bread and we will eat it for you. In a nation where slavery was outlawed and is deemed evil, allowing someone to live off the work of others for the the reason than that person does not want to work is that of the slave owner, only the slave is the one that is eating the bread. Both are evil in their intent (taking from the productive to support the non-productive) should not be permitted. This in noway shoud be construed as saying that those who need help, ie the elderly and the injured and the mentally and physically deficient should not be helped. For those who can not work to earn a living, society as a whole has an obligation to help those who can not help themselves.

 

[Againsheila]

Why do you think they deserve more?

I asked you first!

Well, question was addressed to eflatminor, so you asked him first.

I asked you why do you think they deserve more... whatever more is?

I think they deserve just as much, adjusted for inflation.

 

[Againsheila]

I asked you first!

Well, question was addressed to eflatminor, so you asked him first.

I asked you why do you think they deserve more... whatever more is?

Nobody deserves more or less than any point in time. They deserve what their service is worth to the employer. If they do not like what the employer is willing to pay, they look somewhere else. If the employer cannot find any workers, he will have to raise his price. And that is what McDonald's is doing. Nobody is entitled to anything. You work for it.

And if our government hadn't increased immigration, McDonald's et al would be paying a whole lot more.

 

[Againsheila]

1) I'm not on the left, I'm a moderate...

Do you consider yourself more or less moderate than Mao Tse Tung?

2) My IQ is 140 based on a test before I entered school, what's yours?

26,319,407,128

(Hey, it's the interwebz!)



Capitalism is an economic system. Immigration is unrelated.



Have you ever had an introductory economics course? You have odd delusions as to how the market works and what mechanisms are at play.



Unions, like corporations, are inclined towards trusts. Trusts are damaging to the market. One of the few legitimate roles of the state is to constrain coercive elements. Coercive trusts, such as the AFL/CIO must be constrained in a free country. Unions that are within a company are not objectionable, no more than corporations which operate as a company.

It's funny how people only want capitalism when it benefits them.

It's funny that you have no grasp whatsoever of economics, not capitalism.

Capitalism would have let all those stupid banks close due to their own stupid decisions.

Yes, it would - and we should have. Bailing them out was a Keynesian, not Capitalist, effort.

I took both macro and micro economics...

 

[eflatminor]

I asked you first!

Well, question was addressed to eflatminor, so you asked him first.

I asked you why do you think they deserve more... whatever more is?

I think they deserve just as much, adjusted for inflation.

There are individuals whose personal circumstances, such as lack of education, experience or intelligence, prevent them from qualifying for a minimum wage job...a lot more individuals if we raise the minimum wage as you suggest. Do you also believe those individuals should be prevented from ANY work? Should those folks simply shut up and starve...or are you looking to increase the number of citizens on the dole?

 

[dblack]

There are individuals whose personal circumstances, such as lack of education, experience or intelligence, prevent them from qualifying for a minimum wage job...a lot more individuals if we raise the minimum wage as you suggest. Do you also believe those individuals should be prevented from ANY work? Should those folks simply shut up and starve...or are you looking to increase the number of citizens on the dole?

I'm sure they'd still qualify for military 'work'.

 

[eflatminor]

There are individuals whose personal circumstances, such as lack of education, experience or intelligence, prevent them from qualifying for a minimum wage job...a lot more individuals if we raise the minimum wage as you suggest. Do you also believe those individuals should be prevented from ANY work? Should those folks simply shut up and starve...or are you looking to increase the number of citizens on the dole?

I'm sure they'd still qualify for military 'work'.

Perhaps that's what she has in mind. Let's hear what she has to say...

 

[Full-Auto]

There are individuals whose personal circumstances, such as lack of education, experience or intelligence, prevent them from qualifying for a minimum wage job...a lot more individuals if we raise the minimum wage as you suggest. Do you also believe those individuals should be prevented from ANY work? Should those folks simply shut up and starve...or are you looking to increase the number of citizens on the dole?

I'm sure they'd still qualify for military 'work'.

Red alert: They would not.

 

[Chris]

What's your opinion on the morality of taking money from those who earned it and giving it to people who haven't? Not talking about people who cannot earn their own money but rather those who choose not to. And can you recommend any books or writings on the subject?

Seems to me basic self worth is at least in part a reflection on your independence. Or at least contributing something, your own labor or time to your family or community. This country does not like freeloaders, and while there is a certain amount of leeway in tough times like we're in now, at some point opinions change.

So are we morally right to redistribute somebody else's wealth or deny people support in an effort to incentivize them to be more productive members of society?

What is your opinion of the super rich paying a lower tax rate than the rest of us?

Richest 400 Earn More, Pay Lower Tax Rate - Forbes.com

 

[eflatminor]

What's your opinion on the morality of taking money from those who earned it and giving it to people who haven't? Not talking about people who cannot earn their own money but rather those who choose not to. And can you recommend any books or writings on the subject?

Seems to me basic self worth is at least in part a reflection on your independence. Or at least contributing something, your own labor or time to your family or community. This country does not like freeloaders, and while there is a certain amount of leeway in tough times like we're in now, at some point opinions change.

So are we morally right to redistribute somebody else's wealth or deny people support in an effort to incentivize them to be more productive members of society?

What is your opinion of the super rich paying a lower tax rate than the rest of us?

Richest 400 Earn More, Pay Lower Tax Rate - Forbes.com

In the interest of full disclosure, the rich may pay a lower rate but they sure as hell pay the vast majority of the revenue. And, when you say "the rest of us", don't forget that nearly half of US citizens by no income tax at all...effectively a zero percent rate.

That said, to your point, my opinion is that we should implement a flat tax. Everybody pays the same. That's what you're looking for, right?

 

[Chris]

What's your opinion on the morality of taking money from those who earned it and giving it to people who haven't? Not talking about people who cannot earn their own money but rather those who choose not to. And can you recommend any books or writings on the subject?

Seems to me basic self worth is at least in part a reflection on your independence. Or at least contributing something, your own labor or time to your family or community. This country does not like freeloaders, and while there is a certain amount of leeway in tough times like we're in now, at some point opinions change.

So are we morally right to redistribute somebody else's wealth or deny people support in an effort to incentivize them to be more productive members of society?

What is your opinion of the super rich paying a lower tax rate than the rest of us?

Richest 400 Earn More, Pay Lower Tax Rate - Forbes.com

In the interest of full disclosure, the rich may pay a lower rate but they sure as hell pay the vast majority of the revenue. And, when you say "the rest of us", don't forget that nearly half of US citizens by no income tax at all...effectively a zero percent rate.

That said, to your point, my opinion is that we should implement a flat tax. Everybody pays the same. That's what you're looking for, right?

No flat tax.

A progressive tax rate without loopholes.

 

[eflatminor]

What is your opinion of the super rich paying a lower tax rate than the rest of us?

Richest 400 Earn More, Pay Lower Tax Rate - Forbes.com

In the interest of full disclosure, the rich may pay a lower rate but they sure as hell pay the vast majority of the revenue. And, when you say "the rest of us", don't forget that nearly half of US citizens by no income tax at all...effectively a zero percent rate.

That said, to your point, my opinion is that we should implement a flat tax. Everybody pays the same. That's what you're looking for, right?

No flat tax.

A progressive tax rate without loopholes.

So let me get this straight: You don't want to pay any tax while having the most productive citizens cover your ass by paying more than they already do. Currently, the top 10% of income earners pay about 70% of all income tax revenue. What percentage do you suggest they pay?

 

[dblack]

Red alert: They would not.

I think they would, and I suspect that's part of the desire to see so many people desperate and dependent on the state. If you outlaw a poor man's ability to earn his way out of poverty, you essentially 'own' him. Then you have complete power over him. And power is what all this is about.

 

[bripat9643]

No flat tax.

A progressive tax rate without loopholes.

Fuck you.

 

[bripat9643]

So let me get this straight: You don't want to pay any tax while having the most productive citizens cover your ass by paying more than they already do. Currently, the top 10% of income earners pay about 70% of all income tax revenue. What percentage do you suggest they pay?

Libs won't be satisfied until all income over the 100K mark is confiscated.

 

[Full-Auto]

Red alert: They would not.

I think they would, and I suspect that's part of the desire to see so many people desperate and dependent on the state. If you outlaw a poor man's ability to earn his way out of poverty, you essentially 'own' him. Then you have complete power over him. And power is what all this is about.

Brush up on current requirements.

The days of letting people enter service or go to jail have been over for quite some time.

 

[Wiseacre]

What's your opinion on the morality of taking money from those who earned it and giving it to people who haven't? Not talking about people who cannot earn their own money but rather those who choose not to. And can you recommend any books or writings on the subject?

Seems to me basic self worth is at least in part a reflection on your independence. Or at least contributing something, your own labor or time to your family or community. This country does not like freeloaders, and while there is a certain amount of leeway in tough times like we're in now, at some point opinions change.

So are we morally right to redistribute somebody else's wealth or deny people support in an effort to incentivize them to be more productive members of society?

What is your opinion of the super rich paying a lower tax rate than the rest of us?

Richest 400 Earn More, Pay Lower Tax Rate - Forbes.com

I think the super rich guys payng a lower tax rate than the rest of us stinks. That's why I recommend the flat tax, with a consumption tax too. I also think the gov't spends too much money that it doesn't have, and that the entitlement programs have to be reformed.