More lefties learn the glory of the 15 dollar minimum wage....unemployment.....

[Brain357]

Cars sell for a lot more than burgers.

And a burger machine costs a lot less than an automated assembly line.
So whats your point?

Where is the clean the restaraunt o matic? Oh they don't have one?

You are being stupid here. There will still have to be a certain number of low paid employees , even if the cooking and serving were totally automated. You can't just turn on a burger machine and let it run all day long without cleaning and such. What about unloading trucks? Who cleans the bathrooms? Etc etc etc.

No,no...you're the idiot here.
Nowhere did I say the burger joint can be totally automated.

And likewise nowhere did anyone say that some jobs wouldn't be lost with a $10 min wage. But it would be very few.

Let's assume a burger o matic cost $200K just for the machine. Again let's assume that raising the minimum wage results in on average $1.50 per hour in raises per employee. , that $200,000 will pay for 1.3M hours. That means it would take TEN years just to break even on that machine, not counting upkeep, repairs, or replacements.

Do you really think that the guy who owns the local McD franchise is going to say "okay dammit, MW went up to $10 an hour, I'm going to invest 10 years in wage increases to buy the machine, so I can fire these employees who dare to ask for a decent wage?"

Knowing you worked as an MP i'll forgive your ignorance of automated machinery.
Hamburger-making machine churns out custom burgers at industrial speeds
I promise you this thing wont go for near that much.
In fact this one will pay for itself in a year.
A CNC machining center is vastly more complicated and doesnt cost that much.
And as the tech becomes more common place the price will drop.

The cost is missing from your article. How much does it cost?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Cars sell for a lot more than burgers.

And a burger machine costs a lot less than an automated assembly line.
So whats your point?

Where is the clean the restaraunt o matic? Oh they don't have one?

You are being stupid here. There will still have to be a certain number of low paid employees , even if the cooking and serving were totally automated. You can't just turn on a burger machine and let it run all day long without cleaning and such. What about unloading trucks? Who cleans the bathrooms? Etc etc etc.

No,no...you're the idiot here.
Nowhere did I say the burger joint can be totally automated.

And likewise nowhere did anyone say that some jobs wouldn't be lost with a $10 min wage. But it would be very few.

Let's assume a burger o matic cost $200K just for the machine. Again let's assume that raising the minimum wage results in on average $1.50 per hour in raises per employee. , that $200,000 will pay for 1.3M hours. That means it would take TEN years just to break even on that machine, not counting upkeep, repairs, or replacements.

Do you really think that the guy who owns the local McD franchise is going to say "okay dammit, MW went up to $10 an hour, I'm going to invest 10 years in wage increases to buy the machine, so I can fire these employees who dare to ask for a decent wage?"

Knowing you worked as an MP i'll forgive your ignorance of automated machinery.
Hamburger-making machine churns out custom burgers at industrial speeds
I promise you this thing wont go for near that much.
In fact this one will pay for itself in a year.
A CNC machining center is vastly more complicated and doesnt cost that much.
And as the tech becomes more common place the price will drop.

Still under development and the company which builds it claims it can pay for itself inside a year. Which of course means nothing. What would you expect them to say "oh it will take 10 years to recoup your investment, buy our machine anyway"

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

And a burger machine costs a lot less than an automated assembly line.
So whats your point?

Where is the clean the restaraunt o matic? Oh they don't have one?

You are being stupid here. There will still have to be a certain number of low paid employees , even if the cooking and serving were totally automated. You can't just turn on a burger machine and let it run all day long without cleaning and such. What about unloading trucks? Who cleans the bathrooms? Etc etc etc.

No,no...you're the idiot here.
Nowhere did I say the burger joint can be totally automated.

And likewise nowhere did anyone say that some jobs wouldn't be lost with a $10 min wage. But it would be very few.

Let's assume a burger o matic cost $200K just for the machine. Again let's assume that raising the minimum wage results in on average $1.50 per hour in raises per employee. , that $200,000 will pay for 1.3M hours. That means it would take TEN years just to break even on that machine, not counting upkeep, repairs, or replacements.

Do you really think that the guy who owns the local McD franchise is going to say "okay dammit, MW went up to $10 an hour, I'm going to invest 10 years in wage increases to buy the machine, so I can fire these employees who dare to ask for a decent wage?"

Knowing you worked as an MP i'll forgive your ignorance of automated machinery.
Hamburger-making machine churns out custom burgers at industrial speeds
I promise you this thing wont go for near that much.
In fact this one will pay for itself in a year.
A CNC machining center is vastly more complicated and doesnt cost that much.
And as the tech becomes more common place the price will drop.

The cost is missing from your article. How much does it cost?

Did you read the article? It states it will pay for itself in one year.
While thats probably a slight exaggeration since the claims come from the manufacturer even if it takes 2 years you're still ahead of the game.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

And a burger machine costs a lot less than an automated assembly line.
So whats your point?

Where is the clean the restaraunt o matic? Oh they don't have one?

You are being stupid here. There will still have to be a certain number of low paid employees , even if the cooking and serving were totally automated. You can't just turn on a burger machine and let it run all day long without cleaning and such. What about unloading trucks? Who cleans the bathrooms? Etc etc etc.

No,no...you're the idiot here.
Nowhere did I say the burger joint can be totally automated.

And likewise nowhere did anyone say that some jobs wouldn't be lost with a $10 min wage. But it would be very few.

Let's assume a burger o matic cost $200K just for the machine. Again let's assume that raising the minimum wage results in on average $1.50 per hour in raises per employee. , that $200,000 will pay for 1.3M hours. That means it would take TEN years just to break even on that machine, not counting upkeep, repairs, or replacements.

Do you really think that the guy who owns the local McD franchise is going to say "okay dammit, MW went up to $10 an hour, I'm going to invest 10 years in wage increases to buy the machine, so I can fire these employees who dare to ask for a decent wage?"

Knowing you worked as an MP i'll forgive your ignorance of automated machinery.
Hamburger-making machine churns out custom burgers at industrial speeds
I promise you this thing wont go for near that much.
In fact this one will pay for itself in a year.
A CNC machining center is vastly more complicated and doesnt cost that much.
And as the tech becomes more common place the price will drop.

Still under development and the company which builds it claims it can pay for itself inside a year. Which of course means nothing. What would you expect them to say "oh it will take 10 years to recoup your investment, buy our machine anyway"

I addressed this already.
You sound like those manual machinist from yesteryear who claimed CNCs would never replace manual machinist.
Yet here we are...most shops now use CNCs almost exclusively and only keep a few Manual machines for fixture making,R&D work and piece orders.
When you can pay a button pusher half of what you pay a skilled machinist....? It's gonna happen.
The burger machine is no different.

 

[Brain357]

Where is the clean the restaraunt o matic? Oh they don't have one?

You are being stupid here. There will still have to be a certain number of low paid employees , even if the cooking and serving were totally automated. You can't just turn on a burger machine and let it run all day long without cleaning and such. What about unloading trucks? Who cleans the bathrooms? Etc etc etc.

No,no...you're the idiot here.
Nowhere did I say the burger joint can be totally automated.

And likewise nowhere did anyone say that some jobs wouldn't be lost with a $10 min wage. But it would be very few.

Let's assume a burger o matic cost $200K just for the machine. Again let's assume that raising the minimum wage results in on average $1.50 per hour in raises per employee. , that $200,000 will pay for 1.3M hours. That means it would take TEN years just to break even on that machine, not counting upkeep, repairs, or replacements.

Do you really think that the guy who owns the local McD franchise is going to say "okay dammit, MW went up to $10 an hour, I'm going to invest 10 years in wage increases to buy the machine, so I can fire these employees who dare to ask for a decent wage?"

Knowing you worked as an MP i'll forgive your ignorance of automated machinery.
Hamburger-making machine churns out custom burgers at industrial speeds
I promise you this thing wont go for near that much.
In fact this one will pay for itself in a year.
A CNC machining center is vastly more complicated and doesnt cost that much.
And as the tech becomes more common place the price will drop.

The cost is missing from your article. How much does it cost?

Did you read the article? It states it will pay for itself in one year.
While thats probably a slight exaggeration since the claims come from the manufacturer even if it takes 2 years you're still ahead of the game.

I did. I think they purposely don't say how much. How will it get food from the fridge and freezer? How is it with chicken sandwiches? How about wraps?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Where is the clean the restaraunt o matic? Oh they don't have one?

You are being stupid here. There will still have to be a certain number of low paid employees , even if the cooking and serving were totally automated. You can't just turn on a burger machine and let it run all day long without cleaning and such. What about unloading trucks? Who cleans the bathrooms? Etc etc etc.

No,no...you're the idiot here.
Nowhere did I say the burger joint can be totally automated.

And likewise nowhere did anyone say that some jobs wouldn't be lost with a $10 min wage. But it would be very few.

Let's assume a burger o matic cost $200K just for the machine. Again let's assume that raising the minimum wage results in on average $1.50 per hour in raises per employee. , that $200,000 will pay for 1.3M hours. That means it would take TEN years just to break even on that machine, not counting upkeep, repairs, or replacements.

Do you really think that the guy who owns the local McD franchise is going to say "okay dammit, MW went up to $10 an hour, I'm going to invest 10 years in wage increases to buy the machine, so I can fire these employees who dare to ask for a decent wage?"

Knowing you worked as an MP i'll forgive your ignorance of automated machinery.
Hamburger-making machine churns out custom burgers at industrial speeds
I promise you this thing wont go for near that much.
In fact this one will pay for itself in a year.
A CNC machining center is vastly more complicated and doesnt cost that much.
And as the tech becomes more common place the price will drop.

Still under development and the company which builds it claims it can pay for itself inside a year. Which of course means nothing. What would you expect them to say "oh it will take 10 years to recoup your investment, buy our machine anyway"

I addressed this already.
You sound like those manual machinist from yesteryear who claimed CNCs would never replace manual machinist.
Yet here we are...most shops now use CNCs almost exclusively and only keep a few Manual machines for fixture making,R&D work and piece orders.
When you can pay a button pusher half of what you pay a skilled machinist....? It's gonna happen.
The burger machine is no different.

Of course it will happen, eventually But your problem is, we aren't talking abut burger flipping wages, we are talking about minimum wage. Of which there will always be people earning that. No matter what job they are doing. If EVERY single person in America had a PhD, you would have PhDs earning minimum wage.

Another problem you have is that you claim that increasing the minimum wage would hasten the advent of these machines, but your very own link proves those machines are coming regardless.

You know what's going to happen is that one of these machines will come out , putting fast food workers out of work, and do you think that the guy who takes care of these machines is going to be paid more? No he isn't , he's going to be the new minimum wage guy while the franchise owners keep the extra savings for themselves. So then you have current minimum wage workers out of work entirely (at least in the burger industry) and a new field that used to be lucrative being the new minimum wage. Because you KNOW these burger factories aren't going to increase their wages on their ow.

I think it's all moot anyway since Wal Mart has of their own initiative announced an increase in their pay scale. That alone will force other businesses to move up their pay.with or without a minimum mandated.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

No,no...you're the idiot here.
Nowhere did I say the burger joint can be totally automated.

And likewise nowhere did anyone say that some jobs wouldn't be lost with a $10 min wage. But it would be very few.

Let's assume a burger o matic cost $200K just for the machine. Again let's assume that raising the minimum wage results in on average $1.50 per hour in raises per employee. , that $200,000 will pay for 1.3M hours. That means it would take TEN years just to break even on that machine, not counting upkeep, repairs, or replacements.

Do you really think that the guy who owns the local McD franchise is going to say "okay dammit, MW went up to $10 an hour, I'm going to invest 10 years in wage increases to buy the machine, so I can fire these employees who dare to ask for a decent wage?"

Knowing you worked as an MP i'll forgive your ignorance of automated machinery.
Hamburger-making machine churns out custom burgers at industrial speeds
I promise you this thing wont go for near that much.
In fact this one will pay for itself in a year.
A CNC machining center is vastly more complicated and doesnt cost that much.
And as the tech becomes more common place the price will drop.

Still under development and the company which builds it claims it can pay for itself inside a year. Which of course means nothing. What would you expect them to say "oh it will take 10 years to recoup your investment, buy our machine anyway"

I addressed this already.
You sound like those manual machinist from yesteryear who claimed CNCs would never replace manual machinist.
Yet here we are...most shops now use CNCs almost exclusively and only keep a few Manual machines for fixture making,R&D work and piece orders.
When you can pay a button pusher half of what you pay a skilled machinist....? It's gonna happen.
The burger machine is no different.

Of course it will happen, eventually But your problem is, we aren't talking abut burger flipping wages, we are talking about minimum wage. Of which there will always be people earning that. No matter what job they are doing. If EVERY single person in America had a PhD, you would have PhDs earning minimum wage.

Another problem you have is that you claim that increasing the minimum wage would hasten the advent of these machines, but your very own link proves those machines are coming regardless.

You know what's going to happen is that one of these machines will come out , putting fast food workers out of work, and do you think that the guy who takes care of these machines is going to be paid more? No he isn't , he's going to be the new minimum wage guy while the franchise owners keep the extra savings for themselves. So then you have current minimum wage workers out of work entirely (at least in the burger industry) and a new field that used to be lucrative being the new minimum wage. Because you KNOW these burger factories aren't going to increase their wages on their ow.

I think it's all moot anyway since Wal Mart has of their own initiative announced an increase in their pay scale. That alone will force other businesses to move up their pay.with or without a minimum mandated.

The whole point is min wage workers demanding ridiculous wages will only hasten their own demise.
Government mandating a min wage is no different than the gov demanding a company hire x amount of workers.
The only difference being the general publics ability to swallow the gov forcing choices on private business.
The gov cant force you to hire,just as they cant force you not to automate.
Business will always find a way to bypass chicken shit gov regulations.

 

[2aguy]

And likewise nowhere did anyone say that some jobs wouldn't be lost with a $10 min wage. But it would be very few.

Let's assume a burger o matic cost $200K just for the machine. Again let's assume that raising the minimum wage results in on average $1.50 per hour in raises per employee. , that $200,000 will pay for 1.3M hours. That means it would take TEN years just to break even on that machine, not counting upkeep, repairs, or replacements.

Do you really think that the guy who owns the local McD franchise is going to say "okay dammit, MW went up to $10 an hour, I'm going to invest 10 years in wage increases to buy the machine, so I can fire these employees who dare to ask for a decent wage?"

Knowing you worked as an MP i'll forgive your ignorance of automated machinery.
Hamburger-making machine churns out custom burgers at industrial speeds
I promise you this thing wont go for near that much.
In fact this one will pay for itself in a year.
A CNC machining center is vastly more complicated and doesnt cost that much.
And as the tech becomes more common place the price will drop.

Still under development and the company which builds it claims it can pay for itself inside a year. Which of course means nothing. What would you expect them to say "oh it will take 10 years to recoup your investment, buy our machine anyway"

I addressed this already.
You sound like those manual machinist from yesteryear who claimed CNCs would never replace manual machinist.
Yet here we are...most shops now use CNCs almost exclusively and only keep a few Manual machines for fixture making,R&D work and piece orders.
When you can pay a button pusher half of what you pay a skilled machinist....? It's gonna happen.
The burger machine is no different.

Of course it will happen, eventually But your problem is, we aren't talking abut burger flipping wages, we are talking about minimum wage. Of which there will always be people earning that. No matter what job they are doing. If EVERY single person in America had a PhD, you would have PhDs earning minimum wage.

Another problem you have is that you claim that increasing the minimum wage would hasten the advent of these machines, but your very own link proves those machines are coming regardless.

You know what's going to happen is that one of these machines will come out , putting fast food workers out of work, and do you think that the guy who takes care of these machines is going to be paid more? No he isn't , he's going to be the new minimum wage guy while the franchise owners keep the extra savings for themselves. So then you have current minimum wage workers out of work entirely (at least in the burger industry) and a new field that used to be lucrative being the new minimum wage. Because you KNOW these burger factories aren't going to increase their wages on their ow.

I think it's all moot anyway since Wal Mart has of their own initiative announced an increase in their pay scale. That alone will force other businesses to move up their pay.with or without a minimum mandated.

The whole point is min wage workers demanding ridiculous wages will only hasten their own demise.
Government mandating a min wage is no different than the gov demanding a company hire x amount of workers.
The only difference being the general publics ability to swallow the gov forcing choices on private business.
The gov cant force you to hire,just as they cant force you not to automate.
Business will always find a way to bypass chicken shit gov regulations.

The gov cant force you to hire,just as they cant force you not to automate.

those are items on their list...........

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

And likewise nowhere did anyone say that some jobs wouldn't be lost with a $10 min wage. But it would be very few.

Let's assume a burger o matic cost $200K just for the machine. Again let's assume that raising the minimum wage results in on average $1.50 per hour in raises per employee. , that $200,000 will pay for 1.3M hours. That means it would take TEN years just to break even on that machine, not counting upkeep, repairs, or replacements.

Do you really think that the guy who owns the local McD franchise is going to say "okay dammit, MW went up to $10 an hour, I'm going to invest 10 years in wage increases to buy the machine, so I can fire these employees who dare to ask for a decent wage?"

Knowing you worked as an MP i'll forgive your ignorance of automated machinery.
Hamburger-making machine churns out custom burgers at industrial speeds
I promise you this thing wont go for near that much.
In fact this one will pay for itself in a year.
A CNC machining center is vastly more complicated and doesnt cost that much.
And as the tech becomes more common place the price will drop.

Still under development and the company which builds it claims it can pay for itself inside a year. Which of course means nothing. What would you expect them to say "oh it will take 10 years to recoup your investment, buy our machine anyway"

I addressed this already.
You sound like those manual machinist from yesteryear who claimed CNCs would never replace manual machinist.
Yet here we are...most shops now use CNCs almost exclusively and only keep a few Manual machines for fixture making,R&D work and piece orders.
When you can pay a button pusher half of what you pay a skilled machinist....? It's gonna happen.
The burger machine is no different.

Of course it will happen, eventually But your problem is, we aren't talking abut burger flipping wages, we are talking about minimum wage. Of which there will always be people earning that. No matter what job they are doing. If EVERY single person in America had a PhD, you would have PhDs earning minimum wage.

Another problem you have is that you claim that increasing the minimum wage would hasten the advent of these machines, but your very own link proves those machines are coming regardless.

You know what's going to happen is that one of these machines will come out , putting fast food workers out of work, and do you think that the guy who takes care of these machines is going to be paid more? No he isn't , he's going to be the new minimum wage guy while the franchise owners keep the extra savings for themselves. So then you have current minimum wage workers out of work entirely (at least in the burger industry) and a new field that used to be lucrative being the new minimum wage. Because you KNOW these burger factories aren't going to increase their wages on their ow.

I think it's all moot anyway since Wal Mart has of their own initiative announced an increase in their pay scale. That alone will force other businesses to move up their pay.with or without a minimum mandated.

The whole point is min wage workers demanding ridiculous wages will only hasten their own demise.
Government mandating a min wage is no different than the gov demanding a company hire x amount of workers.
The only difference being the general publics ability to swallow the gov forcing choices on private business.
The gov cant force you to hire,just as they cant force you not to automate.
Business will always find a way to bypass chicken shit gov regulations.

So you favor NO mandated minimum wage?

Yes, we see how that worked out don't we? You're discounted as an idiotic hack and I'm moving on. Good day.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Knowing you worked as an MP i'll forgive your ignorance of automated machinery.
Hamburger-making machine churns out custom burgers at industrial speeds
I promise you this thing wont go for near that much.
In fact this one will pay for itself in a year.
A CNC machining center is vastly more complicated and doesnt cost that much.
And as the tech becomes more common place the price will drop.

Still under development and the company which builds it claims it can pay for itself inside a year. Which of course means nothing. What would you expect them to say "oh it will take 10 years to recoup your investment, buy our machine anyway"

I addressed this already.
You sound like those manual machinist from yesteryear who claimed CNCs would never replace manual machinist.
Yet here we are...most shops now use CNCs almost exclusively and only keep a few Manual machines for fixture making,R&D work and piece orders.
When you can pay a button pusher half of what you pay a skilled machinist....? It's gonna happen.
The burger machine is no different.

Of course it will happen, eventually But your problem is, we aren't talking abut burger flipping wages, we are talking about minimum wage. Of which there will always be people earning that. No matter what job they are doing. If EVERY single person in America had a PhD, you would have PhDs earning minimum wage.

Another problem you have is that you claim that increasing the minimum wage would hasten the advent of these machines, but your very own link proves those machines are coming regardless.

You know what's going to happen is that one of these machines will come out , putting fast food workers out of work, and do you think that the guy who takes care of these machines is going to be paid more? No he isn't , he's going to be the new minimum wage guy while the franchise owners keep the extra savings for themselves. So then you have current minimum wage workers out of work entirely (at least in the burger industry) and a new field that used to be lucrative being the new minimum wage. Because you KNOW these burger factories aren't going to increase their wages on their ow.

I think it's all moot anyway since Wal Mart has of their own initiative announced an increase in their pay scale. That alone will force other businesses to move up their pay.with or without a minimum mandated.

The whole point is min wage workers demanding ridiculous wages will only hasten their own demise.
Government mandating a min wage is no different than the gov demanding a company hire x amount of workers.
The only difference being the general publics ability to swallow the gov forcing choices on private business.
The gov cant force you to hire,just as they cant force you not to automate.
Business will always find a way to bypass chicken shit gov regulations.

The gov cant force you to hire,just as they cant force you not to automate.

those are items on their list...........

Nothing would surprise me...
I wish they force welfare recipients to pick up trash on the freeway. It only seems fair.

 

[Flopper]

$10 an hour is an appropriate minimum wage. In fact $10 an hour would correct the minimum wage to 1968 levels.

I'm sure minimum-wagers would duly appreciate it for the approximately 26 months they remained employed before their job was usurped by the burger-o-matic 5000.

See, here is what you are apparently too stupid to understand.

We will ALWAYS have both minimum wage jobs, and minimum wage employees.

Let's say that McDonalds , for example, bought the burger-o-matic 500 and put it in all their stores. They would still need a minimal number of employees to run the thing. Those employees would still be entry level employees earning at or near the min wage. And the people who USED to work at McDonalds? They would still have to be employed somewhere at or near minimum wage.

The jobs will simply shift. When the automobile was invented did the people who ran livery stables and such suddenly no longer work? Of course not, they instead moved to another industry earning at or near the same wages.

Where exactly are these ex-employees going to work? You're assuming the system magically adapts to find them jobs, but based on what? Hiring these people isn't a cost-effective decision for any employer. Their skills have been rendered obsolete by mechanization.

That's the problem here: the fundamental obsolescence of a burgeoning underclass in a system that is thoroughly capitalist in nature, despising inefficiency. These people have become inefficient. They've become a liability in such a system. Raising the minimum wage makes them a greater liability.

I don't think you appreciate the true scope of the problem. It goes far beyond just minimum wage. And you can spare me the usual platitudes about "people will work to fix the machines" (maintenance jobs might replace one in ten of the jobs displaced by automation, if we're lucky), and "people will adapt" (we're in unprecedented territory for several reasons, not the least of which is the extreme scale of the problem, and "people will adapt" is a blind cop-out.)

They will find a job somewhere. When buggies stopped being sold, did buggy makers just go die because they were out of work, or did they adapt and find a new skill set?

True, most of the people who are earning minimum wage are lazy worthless pieces of shit who would rather not be working at all, and they are fine with that, because our system encourages it . Do very little work, for very little pay, and let the taxpayers pick up the difference.

I say fuck that. I say set the minimum wage @ $10 and tighten up welfare and if you are able bodies and no one wants to hire you because you cant or won't make yourself worth $10, too bad for you, go hungry.

I think hardest work I ever did in my life was wheelbarrowing concrete in a hundred degree temperatures at a minimum wage of $1/hr. When you say people earning minimum wage are worthless pieces of shit, you're talking about nearly half the workforce because that's where they started their career.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

$10 an hour is an appropriate minimum wage. In fact $10 an hour would correct the minimum wage to 1968 levels.

I'm sure minimum-wagers would duly appreciate it for the approximately 26 months they remained employed before their job was usurped by the burger-o-matic 5000.

See, here is what you are apparently too stupid to understand.

We will ALWAYS have both minimum wage jobs, and minimum wage employees.

Let's say that McDonalds , for example, bought the burger-o-matic 500 and put it in all their stores. They would still need a minimal number of employees to run the thing. Those employees would still be entry level employees earning at or near the min wage. And the people who USED to work at McDonalds? They would still have to be employed somewhere at or near minimum wage.

The jobs will simply shift. When the automobile was invented did the people who ran livery stables and such suddenly no longer work? Of course not, they instead moved to another industry earning at or near the same wages.

Where exactly are these ex-employees going to work? You're assuming the system magically adapts to find them jobs, but based on what? Hiring these people isn't a cost-effective decision for any employer. Their skills have been rendered obsolete by mechanization.

That's the problem here: the fundamental obsolescence of a burgeoning underclass in a system that is thoroughly capitalist in nature, despising inefficiency. These people have become inefficient. They've become a liability in such a system. Raising the minimum wage makes them a greater liability.

I don't think you appreciate the true scope of the problem. It goes far beyond just minimum wage. And you can spare me the usual platitudes about "people will work to fix the machines" (maintenance jobs might replace one in ten of the jobs displaced by automation, if we're lucky), and "people will adapt" (we're in unprecedented territory for several reasons, not the least of which is the extreme scale of the problem, and "people will adapt" is a blind cop-out.)

They will find a job somewhere. When buggies stopped being sold, did buggy makers just go die because they were out of work, or did they adapt and find a new skill set?

True, most of the people who are earning minimum wage are lazy worthless pieces of shit who would rather not be working at all, and they are fine with that, because our system encourages it . Do very little work, for very little pay, and let the taxpayers pick up the difference.

I say fuck that. I say set the minimum wage @ $10 and tighten up welfare and if you are able bodies and no one wants to hire you because you cant or won't make yourself worth $10, too bad for you, go hungry.

I think hardest work I ever did in my life was wheelbarrowing concrete in a hundred degree temperatures at a minimum wage of $1/hr. When you say people earning minimum wage are worthless pieces of shit, you're talking about nearly half the workforce because that's where they started their career.

I thought it was understood that we were talking about minimum wage lifers. Not people are just starting out or whatever. I mean everyone has to start at the bottom.

 

[Flopper]

Still under development and the company which builds it claims it can pay for itself inside a year. Which of course means nothing. What would you expect them to say "oh it will take 10 years to recoup your investment, buy our machine anyway"

I addressed this already.
You sound like those manual machinist from yesteryear who claimed CNCs would never replace manual machinist.
Yet here we are...most shops now use CNCs almost exclusively and only keep a few Manual machines for fixture making,R&D work and piece orders.
When you can pay a button pusher half of what you pay a skilled machinist....? It's gonna happen.
The burger machine is no different.

Of course it will happen, eventually But your problem is, we aren't talking abut burger flipping wages, we are talking about minimum wage. Of which there will always be people earning that. No matter what job they are doing. If EVERY single person in America had a PhD, you would have PhDs earning minimum wage.

Another problem you have is that you claim that increasing the minimum wage would hasten the advent of these machines, but your very own link proves those machines are coming regardless.

You know what's going to happen is that one of these machines will come out , putting fast food workers out of work, and do you think that the guy who takes care of these machines is going to be paid more? No he isn't , he's going to be the new minimum wage guy while the franchise owners keep the extra savings for themselves. So then you have current minimum wage workers out of work entirely (at least in the burger industry) and a new field that used to be lucrative being the new minimum wage. Because you KNOW these burger factories aren't going to increase their wages on their ow.

I think it's all moot anyway since Wal Mart has of their own initiative announced an increase in their pay scale. That alone will force other businesses to move up their pay.with or without a minimum mandated.

The whole point is min wage workers demanding ridiculous wages will only hasten their own demise.
Government mandating a min wage is no different than the gov demanding a company hire x amount of workers.
The only difference being the general publics ability to swallow the gov forcing choices on private business.
The gov cant force you to hire,just as they cant force you not to automate.
Business will always find a way to bypass chicken shit gov regulations.

The gov cant force you to hire,just as they cant force you not to automate.

those are items on their list...........

Nothing would surprise me...
I wish they force welfare recipients to pick up trash on the freeway. It only seems fair.

For your information, 60% of low income families have at least one adult working in a full time job. One of the biggest misconception about social welfare is the recipients don't work. The fact is they do work. They just don't make enough money to support their family.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

I addressed this already.
You sound like those manual machinist from yesteryear who claimed CNCs would never replace manual machinist.
Yet here we are...most shops now use CNCs almost exclusively and only keep a few Manual machines for fixture making,R&D work and piece orders.
When you can pay a button pusher half of what you pay a skilled machinist....? It's gonna happen.
The burger machine is no different.

Of course it will happen, eventually But your problem is, we aren't talking abut burger flipping wages, we are talking about minimum wage. Of which there will always be people earning that. No matter what job they are doing. If EVERY single person in America had a PhD, you would have PhDs earning minimum wage.

Another problem you have is that you claim that increasing the minimum wage would hasten the advent of these machines, but your very own link proves those machines are coming regardless.

You know what's going to happen is that one of these machines will come out , putting fast food workers out of work, and do you think that the guy who takes care of these machines is going to be paid more? No he isn't , he's going to be the new minimum wage guy while the franchise owners keep the extra savings for themselves. So then you have current minimum wage workers out of work entirely (at least in the burger industry) and a new field that used to be lucrative being the new minimum wage. Because you KNOW these burger factories aren't going to increase their wages on their ow.

I think it's all moot anyway since Wal Mart has of their own initiative announced an increase in their pay scale. That alone will force other businesses to move up their pay.with or without a minimum mandated.

The whole point is min wage workers demanding ridiculous wages will only hasten their own demise.
Government mandating a min wage is no different than the gov demanding a company hire x amount of workers.
The only difference being the general publics ability to swallow the gov forcing choices on private business.
The gov cant force you to hire,just as they cant force you not to automate.
Business will always find a way to bypass chicken shit gov regulations.

The gov cant force you to hire,just as they cant force you not to automate.

those are items on their list...........

Nothing would surprise me...
I wish they force welfare recipients to pick up trash on the freeway. It only seems fair.

For your information, 60% of low income families have at least one adult working in a full time job. One of the biggest misconception about social welfare is the recipients don't work. The fact is they do work. They just don't make enough money to support their family.

Of course the flip side of that is, Don't start a family if you can't afford to support that family on your own. I think it is completely unfair ad irresponsible for someone who does not have the means to support a family to say they have a right to have a family and then expect the taxpayers to support that family.

At $10/Hr with TWO full time workers you would have a hard time raising two kids on your own with no help. Let alone 1 parent.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Knowing you worked as an MP i'll forgive your ignorance of automated machinery.
Hamburger-making machine churns out custom burgers at industrial speeds
I promise you this thing wont go for near that much.
In fact this one will pay for itself in a year.
A CNC machining center is vastly more complicated and doesnt cost that much.
And as the tech becomes more common place the price will drop.

Still under development and the company which builds it claims it can pay for itself inside a year. Which of course means nothing. What would you expect them to say "oh it will take 10 years to recoup your investment, buy our machine anyway"

I addressed this already.
You sound like those manual machinist from yesteryear who claimed CNCs would never replace manual machinist.
Yet here we are...most shops now use CNCs almost exclusively and only keep a few Manual machines for fixture making,R&D work and piece orders.
When you can pay a button pusher half of what you pay a skilled machinist....? It's gonna happen.
The burger machine is no different.

Of course it will happen, eventually But your problem is, we aren't talking abut burger flipping wages, we are talking about minimum wage. Of which there will always be people earning that. No matter what job they are doing. If EVERY single person in America had a PhD, you would have PhDs earning minimum wage.

Another problem you have is that you claim that increasing the minimum wage would hasten the advent of these machines, but your very own link proves those machines are coming regardless.

You know what's going to happen is that one of these machines will come out , putting fast food workers out of work, and do you think that the guy who takes care of these machines is going to be paid more? No he isn't , he's going to be the new minimum wage guy while the franchise owners keep the extra savings for themselves. So then you have current minimum wage workers out of work entirely (at least in the burger industry) and a new field that used to be lucrative being the new minimum wage. Because you KNOW these burger factories aren't going to increase their wages on their ow.

I think it's all moot anyway since Wal Mart has of their own initiative announced an increase in their pay scale. That alone will force other businesses to move up their pay.with or without a minimum mandated.

The whole point is min wage workers demanding ridiculous wages will only hasten their own demise.
Government mandating a min wage is no different than the gov demanding a company hire x amount of workers.
The only difference being the general publics ability to swallow the gov forcing choices on private business.
The gov cant force you to hire,just as they cant force you not to automate.
Business will always find a way to bypass chicken shit gov regulations.

So you favor NO mandated minimum wage?

Yes, we see how that worked out don't we? You're discounted as an idiotic hack and I'm moving on. Good day.

I didnt say that. I dont condone the gov mandating wages that jeopardize business because all thats going to do is force business to make a choice between closing the doors,automating or firing part of their work force.
All of which will hurt min wage workers and the economy.
I dont have a problem with a slightly higher min wage,say a buck a year for a couple of years. Anything more will force business to think of other options.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Still under development and the company which builds it claims it can pay for itself inside a year. Which of course means nothing. What would you expect them to say "oh it will take 10 years to recoup your investment, buy our machine anyway"

I addressed this already.
You sound like those manual machinist from yesteryear who claimed CNCs would never replace manual machinist.
Yet here we are...most shops now use CNCs almost exclusively and only keep a few Manual machines for fixture making,R&D work and piece orders.
When you can pay a button pusher half of what you pay a skilled machinist....? It's gonna happen.
The burger machine is no different.

Of course it will happen, eventually But your problem is, we aren't talking abut burger flipping wages, we are talking about minimum wage. Of which there will always be people earning that. No matter what job they are doing. If EVERY single person in America had a PhD, you would have PhDs earning minimum wage.

Another problem you have is that you claim that increasing the minimum wage would hasten the advent of these machines, but your very own link proves those machines are coming regardless.

You know what's going to happen is that one of these machines will come out , putting fast food workers out of work, and do you think that the guy who takes care of these machines is going to be paid more? No he isn't , he's going to be the new minimum wage guy while the franchise owners keep the extra savings for themselves. So then you have current minimum wage workers out of work entirely (at least in the burger industry) and a new field that used to be lucrative being the new minimum wage. Because you KNOW these burger factories aren't going to increase their wages on their ow.

I think it's all moot anyway since Wal Mart has of their own initiative announced an increase in their pay scale. That alone will force other businesses to move up their pay.with or without a minimum mandated.

The whole point is min wage workers demanding ridiculous wages will only hasten their own demise.
Government mandating a min wage is no different than the gov demanding a company hire x amount of workers.
The only difference being the general publics ability to swallow the gov forcing choices on private business.
The gov cant force you to hire,just as they cant force you not to automate.
Business will always find a way to bypass chicken shit gov regulations.

So you favor NO mandated minimum wage?

Yes, we see how that worked out don't we? You're discounted as an idiotic hack and I'm moving on. Good day.

I didnt say that. I dont condone the gov mandating wages that jeopardize business because all thats going to do is force business to make a choice between closing the doors,automating or firing part of their work force.
All of which will hurt min wage workers and the economy.
I dont have a problem with a slightly higher min wage,say a buck a year for a couple of years. Anything more will force business to think of other options.

So we've agreed. I am against $15 a hour as well, its' too much. I do however think that $10 an hour should be applied the same way you would remove a bandaid, one quick pull. Yes it will hurt for a bit, but then the pain is over.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I addressed this already.
You sound like those manual machinist from yesteryear who claimed CNCs would never replace manual machinist.
Yet here we are...most shops now use CNCs almost exclusively and only keep a few Manual machines for fixture making,R&D work and piece orders.
When you can pay a button pusher half of what you pay a skilled machinist....? It's gonna happen.
The burger machine is no different.

Of course it will happen, eventually But your problem is, we aren't talking abut burger flipping wages, we are talking about minimum wage. Of which there will always be people earning that. No matter what job they are doing. If EVERY single person in America had a PhD, you would have PhDs earning minimum wage.

Another problem you have is that you claim that increasing the minimum wage would hasten the advent of these machines, but your very own link proves those machines are coming regardless.

You know what's going to happen is that one of these machines will come out , putting fast food workers out of work, and do you think that the guy who takes care of these machines is going to be paid more? No he isn't , he's going to be the new minimum wage guy while the franchise owners keep the extra savings for themselves. So then you have current minimum wage workers out of work entirely (at least in the burger industry) and a new field that used to be lucrative being the new minimum wage. Because you KNOW these burger factories aren't going to increase their wages on their ow.

I think it's all moot anyway since Wal Mart has of their own initiative announced an increase in their pay scale. That alone will force other businesses to move up their pay.with or without a minimum mandated.

The whole point is min wage workers demanding ridiculous wages will only hasten their own demise.
Government mandating a min wage is no different than the gov demanding a company hire x amount of workers.
The only difference being the general publics ability to swallow the gov forcing choices on private business.
The gov cant force you to hire,just as they cant force you not to automate.
Business will always find a way to bypass chicken shit gov regulations.

The gov cant force you to hire,just as they cant force you not to automate.

those are items on their list...........

Nothing would surprise me...
I wish they force welfare recipients to pick up trash on the freeway. It only seems fair.

For your information, 60% of low income families have at least one adult working in a full time job. One of the biggest misconception about social welfare is the recipients don't work. The fact is they do work. They just don't make enough money to support their family.

Then I suggest they apply themselves.
You have to stop thinking a burger flipping job is intended as a career that you can raise a family on,thats just ridiculous.

 

[Flopper]

And a burger machine costs a lot less than an automated assembly line.
So whats your point?

Where is the clean the restaraunt o matic? Oh they don't have one?

You are being stupid here. There will still have to be a certain number of low paid employees , even if the cooking and serving were totally automated. You can't just turn on a burger machine and let it run all day long without cleaning and such. What about unloading trucks? Who cleans the bathrooms? Etc etc etc.

No,no...you're the idiot here.
Nowhere did I say the burger joint can be totally automated.

And likewise nowhere did anyone say that some jobs wouldn't be lost with a $10 min wage. But it would be very few.

Let's assume a burger o matic cost $200K just for the machine. Again let's assume that raising the minimum wage results in on average $1.50 per hour in raises per employee. , that $200,000 will pay for 1.3M hours. That means it would take TEN years just to break even on that machine, not counting upkeep, repairs, or replacements.

Do you really think that the guy who owns the local McD franchise is going to say "okay dammit, MW went up to $10 an hour, I'm going to invest 10 years in wage increases to buy the machine, so I can fire these employees who dare to ask for a decent wage?"

Knowing you worked as an MP i'll forgive your ignorance of automated machinery.
Hamburger-making machine churns out custom burgers at industrial speeds
I promise you this thing wont go for near that much.
In fact this one will pay for itself in a year.
A CNC machining center is vastly more complicated and doesnt cost that much.
And as the tech becomes more common place the price will drop.

Still under development and the company which builds it claims it can pay for itself inside a year. Which of course means nothing. What would you expect them to say "oh it will take 10 years to recoup your investment, buy our machine anyway"

I think the problem with a burger machine is fast food restaurants are constantly changing their menu and adding new burgers, the bacon cheese burger, the barbecue burger, the double, the triple burger, the onion burger, the bacon burger, the veggie burger, and of course the burger without onions, the burger with only pickles, and mayo, the well done burger, the rare burger,etc.... Also, fast food restaurants general serve a variety of foods other than burgers which requires cooks.

As I recall, Burger King has been using a machine that cooks the burgers for many years. The kitchen staff feeds the machine with patties and adds the veggies and condiments to the burgers.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Of course it will happen, eventually But your problem is, we aren't talking abut burger flipping wages, we are talking about minimum wage. Of which there will always be people earning that. No matter what job they are doing. If EVERY single person in America had a PhD, you would have PhDs earning minimum wage.

Another problem you have is that you claim that increasing the minimum wage would hasten the advent of these machines, but your very own link proves those machines are coming regardless.

You know what's going to happen is that one of these machines will come out , putting fast food workers out of work, and do you think that the guy who takes care of these machines is going to be paid more? No he isn't , he's going to be the new minimum wage guy while the franchise owners keep the extra savings for themselves. So then you have current minimum wage workers out of work entirely (at least in the burger industry) and a new field that used to be lucrative being the new minimum wage. Because you KNOW these burger factories aren't going to increase their wages on their ow.

I think it's all moot anyway since Wal Mart has of their own initiative announced an increase in their pay scale. That alone will force other businesses to move up their pay.with or without a minimum mandated.

The whole point is min wage workers demanding ridiculous wages will only hasten their own demise.
Government mandating a min wage is no different than the gov demanding a company hire x amount of workers.
The only difference being the general publics ability to swallow the gov forcing choices on private business.
The gov cant force you to hire,just as they cant force you not to automate.
Business will always find a way to bypass chicken shit gov regulations.

The gov cant force you to hire,just as they cant force you not to automate.

those are items on their list...........

Nothing would surprise me...
I wish they force welfare recipients to pick up trash on the freeway. It only seems fair.

For your information, 60% of low income families have at least one adult working in a full time job. One of the biggest misconception about social welfare is the recipients don't work. The fact is they do work. They just don't make enough money to support their family.

Then I suggest they apply themselves.
You have to stop thinking a burger flipping job is intended as a career that you can raise a family on,thats just ridiculous.

Once again though, you can't just say X or Y.

Yes, those who work fast foods are generally there for a reason, but on the other hand, if every adult in American had a PhD , we would have PhDs working fast food. There are only so many good jobs to go around.

The ONLY viable solution would be to end all work visas and repatriate those who are here as worker guests, that would open up many jobs.

I'm not opposed to that solution.

 

[Brain357]

Where is the clean the restaraunt o matic? Oh they don't have one?

You are being stupid here. There will still have to be a certain number of low paid employees , even if the cooking and serving were totally automated. You can't just turn on a burger machine and let it run all day long without cleaning and such. What about unloading trucks? Who cleans the bathrooms? Etc etc etc.

No,no...you're the idiot here.
Nowhere did I say the burger joint can be totally automated.

And likewise nowhere did anyone say that some jobs wouldn't be lost with a $10 min wage. But it would be very few.

Let's assume a burger o matic cost $200K just for the machine. Again let's assume that raising the minimum wage results in on average $1.50 per hour in raises per employee. , that $200,000 will pay for 1.3M hours. That means it would take TEN years just to break even on that machine, not counting upkeep, repairs, or replacements.

Do you really think that the guy who owns the local McD franchise is going to say "okay dammit, MW went up to $10 an hour, I'm going to invest 10 years in wage increases to buy the machine, so I can fire these employees who dare to ask for a decent wage?"

Knowing you worked as an MP i'll forgive your ignorance of automated machinery.
Hamburger-making machine churns out custom burgers at industrial speeds
I promise you this thing wont go for near that much.
In fact this one will pay for itself in a year.
A CNC machining center is vastly more complicated and doesnt cost that much.
And as the tech becomes more common place the price will drop.

Still under development and the company which builds it claims it can pay for itself inside a year. Which of course means nothing. What would you expect them to say "oh it will take 10 years to recoup your investment, buy our machine anyway"

I think the problem with a burger machine is fast food restaurants are constantly changing their menu, the cheese burger, the barbecue burger, the double, the triple burger, the onion burger, the bacon burger, the veggie burger, and of course the burger without onions, the burger with only pickles, and mayo, the well done burger, the rare burger,etc.... Also, fast food restaurants general serve a variety of food of other than burgers which requires cooks.

Do these better jobs exist? We have lost manufacturing jobs and replaced with fast food.