More lefties learn the glory of the 15 dollar minimum wage....unemployment.....

[HereWeGoAgain]

When the cost of labor goes higher than a job is worth, the job is usually replaced by automation. Teenagers used to be able to pump gas and get some experience. Now we pump our own gas. Now they flip burgers, tomorrow an automated oven will do the whole process more consistently and cheaper. Away go the jobs.

How much is a job worth that makes all the money for an business owner?

If a machine can grind meat, shape burger patties, cook and assemble burgers for $10/hr, that's the price point beyond which humans will be replaced. If automated gas pumps can allow customers to pump their own gas for $2/hr, that's the price beyond which humans will be replaced. See, the way you approach this is all wrong. A typical business owner looks at it this way. I have a product that I sell. That product costs me X dollars in raw materials. Then I have to add in Y dollars to assemble the product and Z dollars to transport and sell it. Then I have to add enough to cover the taxes I will be charged by the government (this is why corporate taxation is so stupid. The customer pays them). Finally, after all that, I add in 3% as my profit margin. And, most of the time, labor is the biggest expense a company has. So, when it's all said and done, a job that "makes all the money for an business owner" simply doesn't exist.

Show me any machine capable of replacing fast food workers.

So you actually think we aren't capable of building a burger maker?
Yet we can make these....

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

It's going to have to be a balancing act now, between unskilled labor and automation, I know of a few companies that went full automation and they folded, they bought new , but they didn't have the skilled industrial guys on the payroll to keep up with it...Fyi it's a major talent, it's like the major difference between knowledge and wisdom


You can buy the greatest machines on the planet, but if you hire crap maintenance men on the cheap, well if they don't know, to young, well your investments are going to go to hell in 8 years, just the way it is

But you only need a few quality maintenance guys.

 

[syonidv]

$10 an hour is an appropriate minimum wage. In fact $10 an hour would correct the minimum wage to 1968 levels.

I'm sure minimum-wagers would duly appreciate it for the approximately 26 months they remained employed before their job was usurped by the burger-o-matic 5000.

See, here is what you are apparently too stupid to understand.

We will ALWAYS have both minimum wage jobs, and minimum wage employees.

Let's say that McDonalds , for example, bought the burger-o-matic 500 and put it in all their stores. They would still need a minimal number of employees to run the thing. Those employees would still be entry level employees earning at or near the min wage. And the people who USED to work at McDonalds? They would still have to be employed somewhere at or near minimum wage.

The jobs will simply shift. When the automobile was invented did the people who ran livery stables and such suddenly no longer work? Of course not, they instead moved to another industry earning at or near the same wages.

Where exactly are these ex-employees going to work? You're assuming the system magically adapts to find them jobs, but based on what? Hiring these people isn't a cost-effective decision for any employer. Their skills have been rendered obsolete by mechanization.

That's the problem here: the fundamental obsolescence of a burgeoning underclass in a system that is thoroughly capitalist in nature, despising inefficiency. These people have become inefficient. They've become a liability in such a system. Raising the minimum wage makes them a greater liability.

I don't think you appreciate the true scope of the problem. It goes far beyond just minimum wage. And you can spare me the usual platitudes about "people will work to fix the machines" (maintenance jobs might replace one in ten of the jobs displaced by automation, if we're lucky), and "people will adapt" (we're in unprecedented territory for several reasons, not the least of which is the extreme scale of the problem, and "people will adapt" is a blind cop-out.)

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

$10 an hour is an appropriate minimum wage. In fact $10 an hour would correct the minimum wage to 1968 levels.

I'm sure minimum-wagers would duly appreciate it for the approximately 26 months they remained employed before their job was usurped by the burger-o-matic 5000.

See, here is what you are apparently too stupid to understand.

We will ALWAYS have both minimum wage jobs, and minimum wage employees.

Let's say that McDonalds , for example, bought the burger-o-matic 500 and put it in all their stores. They would still need a minimal number of employees to run the thing. Those employees would still be entry level employees earning at or near the min wage. And the people who USED to work at McDonalds? They would still have to be employed somewhere at or near minimum wage.

The jobs will simply shift. When the automobile was invented did the people who ran livery stables and such suddenly no longer work? Of course not, they instead moved to another industry earning at or near the same wages.

Where exactly are these ex-employees going to work? You're assuming the system magically adapts to find them jobs, but based on what? Hiring these people isn't a cost-effective decision for any employer. Their skills have been rendered obsolete by mechanization.

That's the problem here: the fundamental obsolescence of a burgeoning underclass in a system that is thoroughly capitalist in nature, despising inefficiency. These people have become inefficient. They've become a liability in such a system. Raising the minimum wage makes them a greater liability.

I don't think you appreciate the true scope of the problem. It goes far beyond just minimum wage. And you can spare me the usual platitudes about "people will work to fix the machines" (maintenance jobs might replace one in ten of the jobs displaced by automation, if we're lucky), and "people will adapt" (we're in unprecedented territory for several reasons, not the least of which is the extreme scale of the problem, and "people will adapt" is a blind cop-out.)

They will find a job somewhere. When buggies stopped being sold, did buggy makers just go die because they were out of work, or did they adapt and find a new skill set?

True, most of the people who are earning minimum wage are lazy worthless pieces of shit who would rather not be working at all, and they are fine with that, because our system encourages it . Do very little work, for very little pay, and let the taxpayers pick up the difference.

I say fuck that. I say set the minimum wage @ $10 and tighten up welfare and if you are able bodies and no one wants to hire you because you cant or won't make yourself worth $10, too bad for you, go hungry.

 

[Brain357]

When the cost of labor goes higher than a job is worth, the job is usually replaced by automation. Teenagers used to be able to pump gas and get some experience. Now we pump our own gas. Now they flip burgers, tomorrow an automated oven will do the whole process more consistently and cheaper. Away go the jobs.

How much is a job worth that makes all the money for an business owner?

If a machine can grind meat, shape burger patties, cook and assemble burgers for $10/hr, that's the price point beyond which humans will be replaced. If automated gas pumps can allow customers to pump their own gas for $2/hr, that's the price beyond which humans will be replaced. See, the way you approach this is all wrong. A typical business owner looks at it this way. I have a product that I sell. That product costs me X dollars in raw materials. Then I have to add in Y dollars to assemble the product and Z dollars to transport and sell it. Then I have to add enough to cover the taxes I will be charged by the government (this is why corporate taxation is so stupid. The customer pays them). Finally, after all that, I add in 3% as my profit margin. And, most of the time, labor is the biggest expense a company has. So, when it's all said and done, a job that "makes all the money for an business owner" simply doesn't exist.

Show me any machine capable of replacing fast food workers.

So you actually think we aren't capable of building a burger maker?
Yet we can make these....

Cars sell for a lot more than burgers.

 

[LogikAndReazon]

Nationalized barack hussein care....

Its in your best interest ! Lol

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

When the cost of labor goes higher than a job is worth, the job is usually replaced by automation. Teenagers used to be able to pump gas and get some experience. Now we pump our own gas. Now they flip burgers, tomorrow an automated oven will do the whole process more consistently and cheaper. Away go the jobs.

How much is a job worth that makes all the money for an business owner?

If a machine can grind meat, shape burger patties, cook and assemble burgers for $10/hr, that's the price point beyond which humans will be replaced. If automated gas pumps can allow customers to pump their own gas for $2/hr, that's the price beyond which humans will be replaced. See, the way you approach this is all wrong. A typical business owner looks at it this way. I have a product that I sell. That product costs me X dollars in raw materials. Then I have to add in Y dollars to assemble the product and Z dollars to transport and sell it. Then I have to add enough to cover the taxes I will be charged by the government (this is why corporate taxation is so stupid. The customer pays them). Finally, after all that, I add in 3% as my profit margin. And, most of the time, labor is the biggest expense a company has. So, when it's all said and done, a job that "makes all the money for an business owner" simply doesn't exist.

Show me any machine capable of replacing fast food workers.

So you actually think we aren't capable of building a burger maker?
Yet we can make these....

Cars sell for a lot more than burgers.

And a burger machine costs a lot less than an automated assembly line.
So whats your point?

 

[Brain357]

How much is a job worth that makes all the money for an business owner?

If a machine can grind meat, shape burger patties, cook and assemble burgers for $10/hr, that's the price point beyond which humans will be replaced. If automated gas pumps can allow customers to pump their own gas for $2/hr, that's the price beyond which humans will be replaced. See, the way you approach this is all wrong. A typical business owner looks at it this way. I have a product that I sell. That product costs me X dollars in raw materials. Then I have to add in Y dollars to assemble the product and Z dollars to transport and sell it. Then I have to add enough to cover the taxes I will be charged by the government (this is why corporate taxation is so stupid. The customer pays them). Finally, after all that, I add in 3% as my profit margin. And, most of the time, labor is the biggest expense a company has. So, when it's all said and done, a job that "makes all the money for an business owner" simply doesn't exist.

Show me any machine capable of replacing fast food workers.

So you actually think we aren't capable of building a burger maker?
Yet we can make these....

Cars sell for a lot more than burgers.

And a burger machine costs a lot less than an automated assembly line.
So whats your point?

How much?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

How much is a job worth that makes all the money for an business owner?

If a machine can grind meat, shape burger patties, cook and assemble burgers for $10/hr, that's the price point beyond which humans will be replaced. If automated gas pumps can allow customers to pump their own gas for $2/hr, that's the price beyond which humans will be replaced. See, the way you approach this is all wrong. A typical business owner looks at it this way. I have a product that I sell. That product costs me X dollars in raw materials. Then I have to add in Y dollars to assemble the product and Z dollars to transport and sell it. Then I have to add enough to cover the taxes I will be charged by the government (this is why corporate taxation is so stupid. The customer pays them). Finally, after all that, I add in 3% as my profit margin. And, most of the time, labor is the biggest expense a company has. So, when it's all said and done, a job that "makes all the money for an business owner" simply doesn't exist.

Show me any machine capable of replacing fast food workers.

So you actually think we aren't capable of building a burger maker?
Yet we can make these....

Cars sell for a lot more than burgers.

And a burger machine costs a lot less than an automated assembly line.
So whats your point?

Where is the clean the restaraunt o matic? Oh they don't have one?

You are being stupid here. There will still have to be a certain number of low paid employees , even if the cooking and serving were totally automated. You can't just turn on a burger machine and let it run all day long without cleaning and such. What about unloading trucks? Who cleans the bathrooms? Etc etc etc.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

If a machine can grind meat, shape burger patties, cook and assemble burgers for $10/hr, that's the price point beyond which humans will be replaced. If automated gas pumps can allow customers to pump their own gas for $2/hr, that's the price beyond which humans will be replaced. See, the way you approach this is all wrong. A typical business owner looks at it this way. I have a product that I sell. That product costs me X dollars in raw materials. Then I have to add in Y dollars to assemble the product and Z dollars to transport and sell it. Then I have to add enough to cover the taxes I will be charged by the government (this is why corporate taxation is so stupid. The customer pays them). Finally, after all that, I add in 3% as my profit margin. And, most of the time, labor is the biggest expense a company has. So, when it's all said and done, a job that "makes all the money for an business owner" simply doesn't exist.

Show me any machine capable of replacing fast food workers.

So you actually think we aren't capable of building a burger maker?
Yet we can make these....

Cars sell for a lot more than burgers.

And a burger machine costs a lot less than an automated assembly line.
So whats your point?

How much?

Are you asking because you believe they are cost equivalent?
If so your a complete moron.

 

[Brain357]

Show me any machine capable of replacing fast food workers.

So you actually think we aren't capable of building a burger maker?
Yet we can make these....

Cars sell for a lot more than burgers.

And a burger machine costs a lot less than an automated assembly line.
So whats your point?

How much?

Are you asking because you believe they are cost equivalent?
If so your a complete moron.

I'm asking because it's obviously very important. So how much?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

If a machine can grind meat, shape burger patties, cook and assemble burgers for $10/hr, that's the price point beyond which humans will be replaced. If automated gas pumps can allow customers to pump their own gas for $2/hr, that's the price beyond which humans will be replaced. See, the way you approach this is all wrong. A typical business owner looks at it this way. I have a product that I sell. That product costs me X dollars in raw materials. Then I have to add in Y dollars to assemble the product and Z dollars to transport and sell it. Then I have to add enough to cover the taxes I will be charged by the government (this is why corporate taxation is so stupid. The customer pays them). Finally, after all that, I add in 3% as my profit margin. And, most of the time, labor is the biggest expense a company has. So, when it's all said and done, a job that "makes all the money for an business owner" simply doesn't exist.

Show me any machine capable of replacing fast food workers.

So you actually think we aren't capable of building a burger maker?
Yet we can make these....

Cars sell for a lot more than burgers.

And a burger machine costs a lot less than an automated assembly line.
So whats your point?

Where is the clean the restaraunt o matic? Oh they don't have one?

You are being stupid here. There will still have to be a certain number of low paid employees , even if the cooking and serving were totally automated. You can't just turn on a burger machine and let it run all day long without cleaning and such. What about unloading trucks? Who cleans the bathrooms? Etc etc etc.

No,no...you're the idiot here.
Nowhere did I say the burger joint can be totally automated.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

So you actually think we aren't capable of building a burger maker?
Yet we can make these....

Cars sell for a lot more than burgers.

And a burger machine costs a lot less than an automated assembly line.
So whats your point?

How much?

Are you asking because you believe they are cost equivalent?
If so your a complete moron.

I'm asking because it's obviously very important. So how much?

Dude you're grasping and it's pretty pathetic.

 

[Brain357]

Cars sell for a lot more than burgers.

And a burger machine costs a lot less than an automated assembly line.
So whats your point?

How much?

Are you asking because you believe they are cost equivalent?
If so your a complete moron.

I'm asking because it's obviously very important. So how much?

Dude you're grasping and it's pretty pathetic.

No the cost is obviously very important. How much?

 

[Mr Natural]

Dude you're grasping and it's pretty pathetic.

Pathetic?

I'll tell you what's pathetic: some petty asshole begrudging some poor unskilled shlub worker a decent wage for his time and effort.

Now that's pathetic.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

And a burger machine costs a lot less than an automated assembly line.
So whats your point?

How much?

Are you asking because you believe they are cost equivalent?
If so your a complete moron.

I'm asking because it's obviously very important. So how much?

Dude you're grasping and it's pretty pathetic.

No the cost is obviously very important. How much?

When I first started machining CNC machines were in there infancy.
Today they are commonplace. The cost of a manual lathe is around thirty thousand while the cost of a CNC is around one hundred thousand and up.
Yet machine shops are buying them in droves.
A talented manual machinist makes way more than a CNC operator.
Yeah...because automation.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Show me any machine capable of replacing fast food workers.

So you actually think we aren't capable of building a burger maker?
Yet we can make these....

Cars sell for a lot more than burgers.

And a burger machine costs a lot less than an automated assembly line.
So whats your point?

Where is the clean the restaraunt o matic? Oh they don't have one?

You are being stupid here. There will still have to be a certain number of low paid employees , even if the cooking and serving were totally automated. You can't just turn on a burger machine and let it run all day long without cleaning and such. What about unloading trucks? Who cleans the bathrooms? Etc etc etc.

No,no...you're the idiot here.
Nowhere did I say the burger joint can be totally automated.

And likewise nowhere did anyone say that some jobs wouldn't be lost with a $10 min wage. But it would be very few.

Let's assume a burger o matic cost $200K just for the machine. Again let's assume that raising the minimum wage results in on average $1.50 per hour in raises per employee. , that $200,000 will pay for 1.3M hours. That means it would take TEN years just to break even on that machine, not counting upkeep, repairs, or replacements.

Do you really think that the guy who owns the local McD franchise is going to say "okay dammit, MW went up to $10 an hour, I'm going to invest 10 years in wage increases to buy the machine, so I can fire these employees who dare to ask for a decent wage?"

 

[Brain357]

How much?

Are you asking because you believe they are cost equivalent?
If so your a complete moron.

I'm asking because it's obviously very important. So how much?

Dude you're grasping and it's pretty pathetic.

No the cost is obviously very important. How much?

When I first started machining CNC machines were in there infancy.
Today they are commonplace. The cost of a manual lathe is around thirty thousand while the cost of a CNC is around one hundred thousand and up.
Yet machine shops are buying them in droves.
A talented manual machinist makes way more than a CNC operator.
Yeah...because automation.

You don't make burgers with a Cnc and machinists don't make MW.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

So you actually think we aren't capable of building a burger maker?
Yet we can make these....

Cars sell for a lot more than burgers.

And a burger machine costs a lot less than an automated assembly line.
So whats your point?

Where is the clean the restaraunt o matic? Oh they don't have one?

You are being stupid here. There will still have to be a certain number of low paid employees , even if the cooking and serving were totally automated. You can't just turn on a burger machine and let it run all day long without cleaning and such. What about unloading trucks? Who cleans the bathrooms? Etc etc etc.

No,no...you're the idiot here.
Nowhere did I say the burger joint can be totally automated.

And likewise nowhere did anyone say that some jobs wouldn't be lost with a $10 min wage. But it would be very few.

Let's assume a burger o matic cost $200K just for the machine. Again let's assume that raising the minimum wage results in on average $1.50 per hour in raises per employee. , that $200,000 will pay for 1.3M hours. That means it would take TEN years just to break even on that machine, not counting upkeep, repairs, or replacements.

Do you really think that the guy who owns the local McD franchise is going to say "okay dammit, MW went up to $10 an hour, I'm going to invest 10 years in wage increases to buy the machine, so I can fire these employees who dare to ask for a decent wage?"

Knowing you worked as an MP i'll forgive your ignorance of automated machinery.
Hamburger-making machine churns out custom burgers at industrial speeds
I promise you this thing wont go for near that much.
In fact this one will pay for itself in a year.
A CNC machining center is vastly more complicated and doesnt cost that much.
And as the tech becomes more common place the price will drop.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Are you asking because you believe they are cost equivalent?
If so your a complete moron.

I'm asking because it's obviously very important. So how much?

Dude you're grasping and it's pretty pathetic.

No the cost is obviously very important. How much?

When I first started machining CNC machines were in there infancy.
Today they are commonplace. The cost of a manual lathe is around thirty thousand while the cost of a CNC is around one hundred thousand and up.
Yet machine shops are buying them in droves.
A talented manual machinist makes way more than a CNC operator.
Yeah...because automation.

You don't make burgers with a Cnc and machinists don't make MW.

A skilled manual machinist will make upwards of thirty bucks an hour. A CNC button pusher might make fifteen bucks an hour.
See the difference?