Most Red States Take More Money From Washington Than They Put In

[sealybobo]

Another factor to consider is the regressive tax structures of the states, It seems that the states getting the most from the government also tax their poor and middle class at astoundingly higher rates than their 1%.

Your saying that people in W. Virginia or Alabama pay higher taxes than people in blue states? I don't think so. Got any proof of that?

http://www.itepnet.org/whopays3.pdf

That's state taxes you are paying. Not Federal. Fact is, red states pay 90 cents to the feds and they take $1.10 and Blue states are footing the bill.

This reminds me of an op ed I read from Thom Hartmann. Here is the part I'm thinking about. Compare this to how they treated poor black people in Katrina.

'You Can't Govern if You Don't Believe in Government'

It's not that these conservatives are incompetent or stupid. When their interests are at stake, they can be very efficient. Consider when Hurricane Charley hit Jeb Bush's state - a year earlier than Katrina - on the second weekend of August, 2004, just months before the elections. The White House website notes:

-- About one hundred trucks of water and 280 trucks of ice are present or will arrive in the Jacksonville staging area today. 900,000 Meals-Ready-to-Eat are on site in Jacksonville, ready to be distributed.

-- Over 7,000 cases of food (e.g., vegetables, fruits, cheese, ham, and turkey) are scheduled to arrive in Winter Haven today. Disaster Medical Assistance Teams (DMAT) are on the ground and setting up comfort stations. FEMA community relations personnel will coordinate with DMATs to assist victims. -- Urban Search and Rescue Teams are completing reconnaissance missions in coordination with state officials.

-- FEMA is coordinating with the Department of Energy and the state to ensure that necessary fuel supplies can be distributed throughout the state, with a special focus on hospitals and other emergency facilities that are running on generators.

-- The Army Corps of Engineers will soon begin its efforts to provide tarps to tens of thousands of owners of homes and buildings that have seen damage to their roofs.

-- The National Guard has called up 4,100 troops in Florida, as well as thousands in other nearby states to assist in the distribution of supplies and in preparation for any flooding.

-- The Departments of Health and Human Services, Veterans Affairs, and Defense together have organized 300 medical personnel to be on standby. Medical personnel will begin deployment to Florida tomorrow.

-- FEMA is coordinating public information messages with Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama, and North Carolina so that evacuees from Florida can be informed when it is safe to return. -- In addition to federal personnel already in place to respond to Hurricane Charley, 1,000 additional community relations personnel are being deployed to Atlanta for training and further assignment in Florida.

All of this aid was vitally important to Bush family political fortunes in the upcoming election of 2004. Disaster relief checks were in the mail within a week. In just the first thirteen days after Hurricane Charley hit Florida, the White House web site notes that the Bush administration had succeeded in:


-- Approving over 13,500 applications for more than $59 million in housing assistance

-- Disbursing 1.2 million liters of water, 8.1 million pounds of ice, and 2 million meals and snacks

-- Delivering over 20,000 rolls of plastic sheeting and nearly 170 generators

-- Treating more than 2,900 individuals through FEMA Disaster Medical Assistance Teams, supporting damaged hospitals

That, of course, was for a Republican State, with a Republican governor, the crony brother of the President. Republicans needed to act like they cared about governing, because they wanted people to vote for them three months later.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

hello?

Ordering new planes from McDonnell Douglass is - aid to all states. National program of defense. The orders are NOT aid to any one state per se, duh?

They do, however, indirectly benefit the state that puts the planes together, hence my reference to indirect spending.

indirect, and all the other states get direct protection (defense) so add yet another parameter to the data.

how do you value the benefits received? There is a reason conservatives want to speak about anything BUT direct aid to states

Dante, I know you like to pretend you are really stupid, but we got merrill while you were gone, and I lost patience for talking to walls. This thread is not about how defense is justified, I never said it wasn't. What I am pointing out is something else entirely, and I know you understand that. If you want to actually discuss this then at least address it intelligently.

 

[occupied]

Your saying that people in W. Virginia or Alabama pay higher taxes than people in blue states? I don't think so. Got any proof of that?

http://www.itepnet.org/whopays3.pdf

That's state taxes you are paying. Not Federal.

I know, I was tying the OP together with the fact that these red states tend to have terribly regressive state taxes while taking more then they pay in federal income taxes, showing a pattern of the GOP throwing the 1%'ers tax burden off on everyone else.

 

[sealybobo]

Republicans wanted to drive the poor out of New Orleans so they didn't lift a finger. Now it is a solid red state.

Republicans crashed the economy in Michigan and Detroit went from 2 million to under 800,000. That's over a million less democratic voters. Another benefit to crashing the American auto industry.

Like the op ed says, Republicans can be very efficient when they want to be.

 

[sealybobo]

http://www.itepnet.org/whopays3.pdf

That's state taxes you are paying. Not Federal.

I know, I was tying the OP together with the fact that these red states tend to have terribly regressive state taxes while taking more then they pay in federal income taxes showing a pattern of the GOP throwing the 1%ers tax burden off on everyone else.

Absolutely. I'm seeing that is a tactic the GOP use. They give corporations tax breaks and charge us fees for things those taxes once paid for.

Snyder in Michigan raised our yearly tab for our licence an extra $100 bucks. That's a lot for a lot of poor people. But he can say he didn't raise our taxes because technically its a fee. If you don't drive you don't pay it. But we all drive.

Or in Florida I had to pay $5 to ride on the turnpike. A fee.

Mitt Romney added a lot of fees while Governor or Massachussets.

The GOP have definately shifted the tax burden more on us over the past 20 years. Roll back the Bush tax breaks? Hell, roll back the Reagan ones too. The gap between the rich and middle class is too wide.

 

[Harry Dresden]

The reason most red states get more money form the federal government then they pay is because red states economies are so much shitter due to the implementation of conservative policies

explain California..........

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

They do, however, indirectly benefit the state that puts the planes together, hence my reference to indirect spending.

indirect, and all the other states get direct protection (defense) so add yet another parameter to the data.

how do you value the benefits received? There is a reason conservatives want to speak about anything BUT direct aid to states

Dante, I know you like to pretend you are really stupid, but we got merrill while you were gone, and I lost patience for talking to walls. This thread is not about how defense is justified, I never said it wasn't. What I am pointing out is something else entirely, and I know you understand that. If you want to actually discuss this then at least address it intelligently.

hmm, okay

 

[Jroc]

MAPS & More: Most Red States Take More Money From Washington Than They Put In | Mother Jones

All states take more from the government than they pay to it, that is why we run a deficit.

The "reality" that is and the "reality" that Republicans imagine is often at odds. It's why they insist on a "conservative" slant.

The federal government owns lots of land, also if the federal government would allow more energy exploration and production in a lot of these states I'm sure the revenue coming in from those states would increase...

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

America's fiscal union: The red and the black | The Economist

Here's a start from a reputable source:

America's fiscal union
The red and the black

Aug 1st 2011, 16:16 by The Economist online

Where federal taxes are raised and spent

SOME American states receive more in federal spending than they pay in federal taxes; others receive less.

See the full data below:

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

The federal government owns lots of land, also if the federal government would allow more energy exploration and production in a lot of these states I'm sure the revenue coming in from those states would increase...

States own lots of land too. Why don't we become like any old 3rd world country and sell off all our assets our legacy?

 

[Jroc]

That's state taxes you are paying. Not Federal.

I know, I was tying the OP together with the fact that these red states tend to have terribly regressive state taxes while taking more then they pay in federal income taxes showing a pattern of the GOP throwing the 1%ers tax burden off on everyone else.

Absolutely. I'm seeing that is a tactic the GOP use. They give corporations tax breaks and charge us fees for things those taxes once paid for.

Snyder in Michigan raised our yearly tab for our licence an extra $100 bucks. That's a lot for a lot of poor people. But he can say he didn't raise our taxes because technically its a fee. If you don't drive you don't pay it. But we all drive.

Or in Florida I had to pay $5 to ride on the turnpike. A fee.

Mitt Romney added a lot of fees while Governor or Massachussets.

The GOP have definately shifted the tax burden more on us over the past 20 years. Roll back the Bush tax breaks? Hell, roll back the Reagan ones too. The gap between the rich and middle class is too wide.

Nothing has been raised yet, it has not been voted on I doubt it'll pass, although it seems you libs loved infrastructure "shovel ready" jobs when Obama passed his stupid stimulus then we never got the infrastructure improvements ..Go figure

 

[Jroc]

The federal government owns lots of land, also if the federal government would allow more energy exploration and production in a lot of these states I'm sure the revenue coming in from those states would increase...

States own lots of land too. Why don't we become like any old 3rd world country and sell off all our assets our legacy?

Why don't we produce our own energy? Which could bring in trillions into our economy instead of selling our children’s future to China future

 

[GuyPinestra]

The federal government owns lots of land, also if the federal government would allow more energy exploration and production in a lot of these states I'm sure the revenue coming in from those states would increase...

States own lots of land too. Why don't we become like any old 3rd world country and sell off all our assets our legacy?

Why don't we produce our own energy? Which could bring in trillions into our economy instead of selling our children’s future to China future

In a word?? Enviro-nutz!

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

America's fiscal union: The red and the black | The Economist

Here's a start from a reputable source:

America's fiscal union
The red and the black

Aug 1st 2011, 16:16 by The Economist online

Where federal taxes are raised and spent

SOME American states receive more in federal spending than they pay in federal taxes; others receive less.

See the full data below:

The article states "Where did these transfers come from? New York transferred over $950 billion to the rest of America’s fiscal union from 1990 to 2009. But relative to the size of its economy, Delaware made the biggest contribution, equivalent to more than twice its 2009 GDP. "

now isn't that special?

 

[occupied]

America's fiscal union: The red and the black | The Economist

Here's a start from a reputable source:

America's fiscal union
The red and the black

Aug 1st 2011, 16:16 by The Economist online

Where federal taxes are raised and spent

SOME American states receive more in federal spending than they pay in federal taxes; others receive less.

See the full data below:

The article states "Where did these transfers come from? New York transferred over $950 billion to the rest of America’s fiscal union from 1990 to 2009. But relative to the size of its economy, Delaware made the biggest contribution, equivalent to more than twice its 2009 GDP. "

now isn't that special?

Yes, even the much maligned California comes out ahead.

 

[auditor0007]

By Dave Gilson

Even as Republicans gripe about deficit spending, their states get 30 cents more federal spending per tax dollar than their Democratic neighbors.

MAPS & More: Most Red States Take More Money From Washington Than They Put In | Mother Jones

Old news, but Republicans will deny it anyway.

 

[sealybobo]

I know, I was tying the OP together with the fact that these red states tend to have terribly regressive state taxes while taking more then they pay in federal income taxes showing a pattern of the GOP throwing the 1%ers tax burden off on everyone else.

Absolutely. I'm seeing that is a tactic the GOP use. They give corporations tax breaks and charge us fees for things those taxes once paid for.

Snyder in Michigan raised our yearly tab for our licence an extra $100 bucks. That's a lot for a lot of poor people. But he can say he didn't raise our taxes because technically its a fee. If you don't drive you don't pay it. But we all drive.

Or in Florida I had to pay $5 to ride on the turnpike. A fee.

Mitt Romney added a lot of fees while Governor or Massachussets.

The GOP have definately shifted the tax burden more on us over the past 20 years. Roll back the Bush tax breaks? Hell, roll back the Reagan ones too. The gap between the rich and middle class is too wide.

Nothing has been raised yet, it has not been voted on I doubt it'll pass, although it seems you libs loved infrastructure "shovel ready" jobs when Obama passed his stupid stimulus then we never got the infrastructure improvements ..Go figure

Funny I saw a lot of signs saying "this project was funded by the stimulus".

And you guys back then argued that the stimulus was too big or shouldn't even be done. Fact is, you wanted Obama to fail so you didn't want him to do anything. In other words, you wanted a bad economy so it would help you in 2010 and 2012. Almost treasonist. Playing politics with the economy. Assuming we would blame Obama for your obstruction. Not a chance. We see who's to blame. The GOP Congress' approval ratings have never been lower.

Anyways, you can't cry about the stimulus not working when didn't even want to fund it in the first place. But as a Republican I know you will try.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

[
All states take more from the government than they pay to it, that is why we run a deficit.

A manageable deficit or a Republican deficit? Because before the GOP came to power the USA in our life time has run manageable deficits.

Actually, the article is wrong. it is only counting direct federal spending, not indirect.

An opinion with facts is wrong because it doesn't make your case for you? The article is about direct federal spending if that is what it is talking about. You may feel the need to add spin, but it shows you are ignoring the argument and making one of your own; deflection

Ordering new planes from McDonnell Douglass is aid to the states?

No, it's aid to the national defense with monetary profits going to McD

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Absolutely. I'm seeing that is a tactic the GOP use. They give corporations tax breaks and charge us fees for things those taxes once paid for.

Snyder in Michigan raised our yearly tab for our licence an extra $100 bucks. That's a lot for a lot of poor people. But he can say he didn't raise our taxes because technically its a fee. If you don't drive you don't pay it. But we all drive.

Or in Florida I had to pay $5 to ride on the turnpike. A fee.

Mitt Romney added a lot of fees while Governor or Massachussets.

The GOP have definately shifted the tax burden more on us over the past 20 years. Roll back the Bush tax breaks? Hell, roll back the Reagan ones too. The gap between the rich and middle class is too wide.

Nothing has been raised yet, it has not been voted on I doubt it'll pass, although it seems you libs loved infrastructure "shovel ready" jobs when Obama passed his stupid stimulus then we never got the infrastructure improvements ..Go figure

Funny I saw a lot of signs saying "this project was funded by the stimulus".

And you guys back then argued that the stimulus was too big or shouldn't even be done. Fact is, you wanted Obama to fail so you didn't want him to do anything. In other words, you wanted a bad economy so it would help you in 2010 and 2012. Almost treasonist. Playing politics with the economy. Assuming we would blame Obama for your obstruction. Not a chance. We see who's to blame. The GOP Congress' approval ratings have never been lower.

Anyways, you can't cry about the stimulus not working when didn't even want to fund it in the first place. But as a Republican I know you will try.

 

[Jroc]

Absolutely. I'm seeing that is a tactic the GOP use. They give corporations tax breaks and charge us fees for things those taxes once paid for.

Snyder in Michigan raised our yearly tab for our licence an extra $100 bucks. That's a lot for a lot of poor people. But he can say he didn't raise our taxes because technically its a fee. If you don't drive you don't pay it. But we all drive.

Or in Florida I had to pay $5 to ride on the turnpike. A fee.

Mitt Romney added a lot of fees while Governor or Massachussets.

The GOP have definately shifted the tax burden more on us over the past 20 years. Roll back the Bush tax breaks? Hell, roll back the Reagan ones too. The gap between the rich and middle class is too wide.

Nothing has been raised yet, it has not been voted on I doubt it'll pass, although it seems you libs loved infrastructure "shovel ready" jobs when Obama passed his stupid stimulus then we never got the infrastructure improvements ..Go figure

Funny I saw a lot of signs saying "this project was funded by the stimulus".

And you guys back then argued that the stimulus was too big or shouldn't even be done. Fact is, you wanted Obama to fail so you didn't want him to do anything. In other words, you wanted a bad economy so it would help you in 2010 and 2012. Almost treasonist. Playing politics with the economy. Assuming we would blame Obama for your obstruction. Not a chance. We see who's to blame. The GOP Congress' approval ratings have never been lower.

Anyways, you can't cry about the stimulus not working when didn't even want to fund it in the first place. But as a Republican I know you will try.

Ummm...How much of the stimulus was spent on infrastructure? I'm pretty sure it was less than 10% Most was spent to bailout union pensions and other cronyism much of which will be funneled back to the democrats...money laundering actually