"My Body, My Choice": The Worst Abortion Talking Points

[Unkotare]

There is a difference between the life of an animal and the life of a human. Man is the only creature or creation of God which has the ability to be saved if he will turn to the Lord Jesus. Animals do not have the moral conscience which tells them they are sinners in need of forgiveness
Man was created in the image and likeness of God (Genesis 2:26-27). Therefore, man is triune in nature–he possesses spirit, soul and body. He is a trichotomous being. On the other hand, animals possess body and soul, but not spirit. This would make them dichotomous beings.

Being dichotomous in nature, an animal would have no sense of right or wrong–no conscience. Therefore, even though he loves his master, and is loved by his master, and even though he may learn to “obey” his master, he would not be held accountable by God for his actions. The Lord gave man “dominion” over all animal life (Genesis 1:26-28).

However, the Lord made provision for the care of animals (Genesis 9:9-10; Psalm 36:6-1 Deuteronomy 25:4; Psalm 104). Even though animals are without a soul and we do have “dominion” over them, this doesn’t mean we should ever be intentionally abusive to anima

You do realize that this board is made up of many who are not Christian, don't you? So your referring to Jesus and being saved doesn't interest them in the least.

I am not a Christian but I know what is morally right and wrong and murder is wrong even if you are an atheist.

Murder is against the law, abortion isn't.

The unborn is alive and living off the host who is the mother where it gets it food, oxygen, etc so aborting a living being is murder and a crime. When the unborn is aborted it dies. It is not like cutting down a tree.

You can keep saying that until the cows come home, but it still doesn't make it murder except in your mind. Like I said before, murder is a crime in this country, abortion isn't.

Clearly, you lack the courage to even look at the issue honestly and directly.

 

[Unkotare]

Illogical. Fail.




Some adults die of disease. Some die after getting hit by a bus. I guess that means you think it should be legal to attack you with biological weapons or run you over with a car if someone finds your existence inconvenient?

Illogical. Fail.
There is a HUGE difference between adults (your reference above) and fetuses (NOT yours).
You really do need more education on biology, especially its developmental perspective.

Ah, so you would favor the legal murder of children under the age of, say, 5? Not yet adult, right? Smaller difference, right? Look at the difference between a 2 year old and a 20 year old. Huge!

No, I do not favor murder of humans or other born animals.
Abortion of unborn humans (fetuses and younger) with full consent by the pregnant female (NOT YOU) is not murder.
......

You have to try and convince yourself of that to live with your immoral position. The taking of innocent life as a matter of convenience is vile murder - to you - under any other circumstances. If one second and one centimeter this way or that in the birth canal indicates or precludes "life" to you, it's time to re-calibrate your moral compass.

I am fine with my moral compass. I don’t stick my subjective nose into other personal affairs unless they need assistance. I believe strongly in the Planned Parenthood philosophy.

Yes, you believe strongly in slaughtering the most innocent in society with more heartless brutality than you demand for you lunch meat. Sure, talk about that moral compass again...

 

[Kittymom1026]

You do realize that this board is made up of many who are not Christian, don't you? So your referring to Jesus and being saved doesn't interest them in the least.

I am not a Christian but I know what is morally right and wrong and murder is wrong even if you are an atheist.

Murder is against the law, abortion isn't.

The unborn is alive and living off the host who is the mother where it gets it food, oxygen, etc so aborting a living being is murder and a crime. When the unborn is aborted it dies. It is not like cutting down a tree.

You can keep saying that until the cows come home, but it still doesn't make it murder except in your mind. Like I said before, murder is a crime in this country, abortion isn't.

In the eyes of our creator abortion is a crime. And GOD's law always trump man's law.

This is the US and we have a Constitution that governs this country, and no matter how many times you say it, abortion is NOT a crime here. You want to live in a country that is governed by religion, move to Brazil. It's a Catholic country that outlaws abortion. You'd fit right in there.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Tough shit brother we are a Christian nation always was, always will be..

Uh, no we aren't and never was. The founding fathers were Deists and made sure there is separation of church and state. The First Amendment allows for freedom of religion, but also allows freedom FROM religion.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

"The founding fathers were Deists..."


You must be a government school grad, huh?


No, they weren't 'deists.'



Let's prove it together.


The truth about American's founders is..."all of whom, even if some did not individually adhere to orthodox Christianity, were steeped in the Judeo-Christian tradition.

Here’s what we can say for certain about their religious beliefs.

a) All of the Founders believed in a transcendent God, that is, a Creator who exists outside of nature.
b) All the Founders believed in a God who imposes moral obligations on human beings
c) All the Founders believed in a God who punishes bad behavior and rewards good behavior in an afterlife."







https://www.prageru.com/courses/history/were-founders-religious

As the dupes of the Left throw around terms to make their case, let's see what "Deist" actually means.

As there is far, far too much evidence for the Judeo-Christian basis of our nation, those on the Left....desiring to adhere to Marx's doctrines....attempt to call the Founders 'deists' to attempt to pry them from being called 'religious.'

de•ism
noun
belief in the existence of a supreme being, specifically of a creator who does not intervene in the universe. The term is used chiefly of an intellectual movement of the 17th and 18th centuries that accepted the existence of a creator on the basis of reason but rejected belief in a supernatural deity who interacts with humankind. Google




"The notion that any of the Founders believed in an impersonal deity who merely created the universe and then left it to itself is false. All of them believed in a God who, as Franklin said at the Constitutional Convention, “governs in the affairs of men.”


I'd be happy to prove it with specific Founders.

Deism and the Founding Fathers
As 'children of the Enlightenment,' many of America's 'Founding Fathers' were deists. There is much debate among historians over which Founding Fathers were or were not deists. This is because many of the writings of our Founders contain varying degrees of deist thought. It is important to keep in mind that deist thinking was often synthesized with Christianity, and also tended to be vague. So historians often disagree over who was an outright deist, and who was a Christian 'with deist sympathies.' That said, many of our Founders were influenced by deist thinking to varying degrees.

Thomas Jefferson is generally considered a deist. In fact, he was so skeptical of supernatural occurrences that he took a knife and cut out passages in his Bible that referred to miracles. 'Jefferson's Bible,' as it has been called, is still around today and belongs to the Smithsonian Institute. Benjamin Franklin is also widely believed to have been a deist. James Madison is thought to have been a deist, though there is much debate over this. A leading American deist was Thomas Paine, writer of The Age of Reason, Common Sense, and many other works. How about George Washington? Debate over his religious views is particularly heated. The truth is that no one is really sure. Washington commonly referred to 'Providence' instead of 'God,' yet he is generally thought to have been an Episcopalian.

Deism & the Founding Fathers: Definition & Beliefs | Study.com

More?
Sure thing:

4. As there is far, far too much evidence for the Judeo-Christian basis of our nation, those on the Left....desiring to adhere to Marx's doctrines....attempt to call the Founders 'deists' to attempt to pry them from being called 'religious.'

de•ism
noun
belief in the existence of a supreme being, specifically of a creator who does not intervene in the universe. The term is used chiefly of an intellectual movement of the 17th and 18th centuries that accepted the existence of a creator on the basis of reason but rejected belief in a supernatural deity who interacts with humankind. Google




5. "The notion that any of the Founders believed in an impersonal deity who merely created the universe and then left it to itself is false. All of them believed in a God who, as Franklin said at the Constitutional Convention, “governs in the affairs of men.”


Let’s start with George Washington.

Washington’s writings, both public and private, are full of references to the Bible. This is certainly true during his eight years as the first President of the United States.

Here is Washington at his first Inaugural:
“The propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right, which Heaven itself has ordained.”
In all likelihood, Washington was an orthodox Christian.


Like Washington, Benjamin Franklin also referenced Bible verses, stories, and metaphors throughout his life. His calls for prayer at the Constitutional Convention were typical of his attitude. Franklin, who had his own unorthodox views, summed up his faith this way: “That the soul of man is immortal, and will be treated with justice in another life respecting its conduct in this.”

Clearly not a view of God ignoring his creations.


6. When it comes to John Adams, the Leftwing sophists have a field day!

"Adams referred to himself as a Christian throughout his life, but did not believe in traditional Christian doctrines such as the trinity or the divinity of Jesus.... [but] before, during and after his tenure as President, Adams repeatedly asserted his admiration for the Christian faith... Adams spoke of his great respect for the Bible. “[T]he Bible is the best book in the world. It contains more of my… philosophy than all the libraries I have seen…”


a. Those who suggest that Adams was in any way against religion like to quote from a letter he wrote to Thomas Jefferson in which he said, “This would be the best of all possible worlds if there was no religion in it.”

Seems to be a perfect spokesman for Marx or Lenin, no?

Definitely, no.



Unfortunately, those who cite this line never quote the lines that immediately follow “But in this exclamation, I should have been as fanatical as [the skeptics of religion]. Without religion, this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite company—I mean hell.”

So, those who quote the first line without quoting the subsequent lines are either unaware of the full comment or are deliberately misleading people as to Adams’s beliefs."
Ibid.


7. "Like Adams, Thomas Jefferson did not adhere to orthodox doctrine. Yet he often declared himself to be a Christian. “I am a Christian, he said, “in the only sense he [Jesus] wished anyone to be: sincerely attached to his doctrines...”

As one of the leaders of the American Revolution, his views are well known. After all, this is the man who wrote in the Declaration of Independence that “all men… are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” You can’t get a much more explicit statement of belief than that.



These four founders – Washington, Adams, Jefferson and Franklin – were practical men with a sober view of human nature. They understood that man is morally weak and that religion provides the best encouragement and incentive to be good.

It does so, first and foremost, by teaching that choices have consequences. Not necessarily in the here and now, but most certainly in the hereafter – meted out by a just God.


It should come as no surprise, then, that Jefferson, in his second inaugural, asked for, “The favor of that Being in whose hands we are, who led our forefathers, as Israel of old, from their native land.”
https://www.prageru.com/courses/history/were-founders-religious


And all of them were rooted in the Judeo-Christian values found in the Bible.
“52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” David Limbaugh


Why is it sooooo very important for Leftist to disparage religon?

Because it is essential to their central doctrine to do so.

8. "The concept of atheism is an essential element of Marxism. As Lenin stated: "Atheism is a natural and inseparable portion of Marxism, of the theory and practice of Scientific Socialism." If God exists and is in supreme command of the universe, He possesses discretionary power, and His actions cannot always be calculated accurately in advance. The whole edifice of Marxism collapses.

When Marx and the Communists deny the existence of God, they simultaneously deny the authority of the Ten Commandments, the existence of absolute standards of right and wrong, of good and evil; and man is left on the playing fields of the universe without a referee, without a book of rules. The winning side in any conflict can decide on what rules of conduct to apply. Morality is the creation of the victor." The Schwarz Report | Essays




9. The Founders memorialized the very opposite in our founding documents.

There are four references to ‘Divine’ in Declaration of Independence

1)in first paragraph ‘Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God,’ 2) next paragraph ‘endowed by their Creator,” 3) Supreme Judge of the world, and 4) ‘divine’ Providence, last paragraph.

This is important because our historic documents memorialize a government based on individuals born with inalienable rights, by, in various references, by the Divine, or Nature’s God, or their Creator, or the Supreme Judge, or divine Providence.


Since these rights are associated with each individual, they cannot be withdrawn, or subjugated to the will of a governing body.


And...despite the secular nature of our national government, there is one unambiguous reference to Christ in the Constitution. Article VII dates the Constitution in "the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven."
"The Year of Our Lord" and separation.



This leaves Leftists with only two choices....deny, or ignore.

Maybe three: lie.

Two of those links don't work and the third one pretty much just addresses what I said about freedom both from and of religion.
And, the Declaration of Independence says "creator" not God or Jesus. Many different religions have different names for their "God."
Maybe we dreaded liberals aren't so much against religion as we are against those that try to shove theirs down our throats. Believe all you want, but don't come on public forums and preach it and attack those that don't think and believe as you do.
And, you don't even know what I believe because unlike many of you here, I don't publicly discuss it. I mainly don't like any kind of organized religion, and especially the kind that preaches politics from the pulpit. For some reason, they now think they can do it without any repercussions. Maybe it's because now they can.
Do you honestly want this country to become a theocracy? What if the religion chosen to be the only one is not something you believe in? Will you be good with that?
You know what they say....beware of what you wish for, you just might get it.

Actually, the DoI has four such references.

There are four references to ‘Devine’ in D of I… 1)in first paragraph ‘Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God,’ 2) next paragraph ‘endowed by their Creator,” 3) Supreme Judge of the world, and 4) ‘divine’ Providence, last paragraph.


And, as I said earlier, the Constitution has a specific reference to Jesus Christ.

This is important because our historic documents memorialize a government based on individuals born with inalienable rights, by, in various references, by the Devine, or Nature’s God, or their Creator, or the Supreme Judge, or divine Providence.

 

[toobfreak]

I say "the worst" but in reality, they're all bad. The Abortion Industry has nothing on their side anymore: not science, not truth. They have talking points to win over the uninformed. That's all.

The one I particularly loathe is "My Body, My Choice". Stupid women love this one, but the stupidity is laughable. It's not your body, sweetheart. If it were your body, you could do what you like. Have your entire female organs removed, tattoo it up, pierce your entire face--I agree. Your choice.

But again. Not your body.

Your BABY'S body. Separate DNA, separate heartbeat, separate and unique set of fingerprints. Not yours. His. Or hers.

What other abortion talking points do you find stupid, laughable, both or other?

You're right. In cases where the mother's life is at stake is one thing, otherwise, it ISN'T your body. You are carrying another life you are responsible for!

You're supposed to be MOTHER, not MURDERER.

 

[Kittymom1026]

You do realize that this board is made up of many who are not Christian, don't you? So your referring to Jesus and being saved doesn't interest them in the least.

I am not a Christian but I know what is morally right and wrong and murder is wrong even if you are an atheist.

Murder is against the law, abortion isn't.

The unborn is alive and living off the host who is the mother where it gets it food, oxygen, etc so aborting a living being is murder and a crime. When the unborn is aborted it dies. It is not like cutting down a tree.

You can keep saying that until the cows come home, but it still doesn't make it murder except in your mind. Like I said before, murder is a crime in this country, abortion isn't.

Clearly, you lack the courage to even look at the issue honestly and directly.

I AM looking at it honestly. I'm not the one spouting the religious crap here. I live in the US and abide by the laws that govern it, not some religious mumbo jumbo from a fanatic.

 

[ph3iron]

You do realize that this board is made up of many who are not Christian, don't you? So your referring to Jesus and being saved doesn't interest them in the least.

I am not a Christian but I know what is morally right and wrong and murder is wrong even if you are an atheist.

Murder is against the law, abortion isn't.

The unborn is alive and living off the host who is the mother where it gets it food, oxygen, etc so aborting a living being is murder and a crime. When the unborn is aborted it dies. It is not like cutting down a tree.

You can keep saying that until the cows come home, but it still doesn't make it murder except in your mind. Like I said before, murder is a crime in this country, abortion isn't.

In the eyes of our creator abortion is a crime. And GOD's law always trump man's law.

It's called Google darlin
God, the biggest mass murderer in history?
"The 10 incidents and declarations surveyed above document God's complete rejection of the anti-abortion crusaders' claims about the sanctity of life and a divine right to life. There is clearly no biblical justification for the radical theology they espouse. This section summarizes God's monumental history of murderous behavior as recorded in holy writ.

We know that God killed millions of unborn children and their pregnant mothers-to-be in the Noachian deluge, the conquest of Canaan, the incineration of Sodom and Gomorrah and in 20 major slaughters described in the bible. The critical feature of these horrific events is that all people were exterminated. Whenever entire communities were massacred, we can be sure that pregnant mothers-to-be and their unborn children were among the victims. Moreover, there are no stated exemptions for this specific segment of the population.

It can be concluded from this ghastly program of human annihilation that the God of the bible is the greatest mass murderer in history and that he does not care about unborn children or living children or living adults. If God really opposes abortion, why didn't he just say so? Why didn't he authorize one of his trusted spokesmen—Moses, Jesus or Paul—to issue a definitive statement on the subject?

It is also noteworthy that while the bible requires the death penalty for 60 specified criminal violations, abortion is not among them. When all relevant documentation is examined, it is obvious that God does not love the unborn and he certainly does not disapprove of abortion.

Killed millions of unborn children?
Which bible ARE you reading?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Of course it was, you dope.


The Constitution provides for an observance of the Sabbath in its Presentment Clause, mandating that the President has ten days, excluding Sundays, to veto a bill lest it become binding.

And the instrument was framed with a view to the Declaration, which unequivocally bestows gratitude on the God of the Bible for America's independence.


1. The most quoted source was the Bible. Established in the original writings of our Founding Fathers we find that they discovered in Isaiah 33:22 the three branches of government: Isaiah 33:22 “For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; he will save us.” Here we see the judicial, the legislative and the executive branches. In Ezra 7:24 we see where they established the tax exempt status of the church: Ezra 7:24 “Also we certify you, that touching any of the priests and Levites, singers, porters, Nethinims, or ministers of this house of God, it shall not be lawful to impose toll, tribute, or custom, upon them.”

When we look at our Constitution we see in Article 4 Section 4 that we are guaranteed a Republican form of government, that was found in Exodus 18 “Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens:” This indicates that we are to choose, or elect God fearing men and women. Looking at Article 3 Section 3 we see almost word for word Deuteronomy 17:6: ‘No person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the testimony of two Witnesses. . .’ Deuteronomy 17:6 “At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses. . .”. The next paragraph in Article 3 Section 3 refers to who should pay the price for treason. In England, they could punish the sons for the trespasses of the father, if the father died.

Roger Anghis -- Bring America Back To Her Religious Roots, Part 7

Figures that you'd go to the most RW religious site to try to prove your point.

So you agree that you can't find a single error in the post.....but, like a good German.....er, Liberal.....you refuse to learn from it.

I already posted an article about it.

The US Constitution Founded on the Bible? Guess Again.


The US Constitution Founded on the Bible? Guess Again.

I just proved the opposite....you can check what I said.....

....and then, guess again.

The opposite of what? The sabbath? Sunday is the first day, not the seventh.

View attachment 261565Reply
www.sabbathtruth.com
The Sabbath is commanded by God. Every week religious Jews observe the Sabbath, the Jewish holy day, and keep its laws and customs. The Sabbath begins at nightfall on Friday and lasts until nightfall on Saturday.Jul 15, 2009
BBC - Religions - Judaism: Sabbath

Have you ever considered why every collectivist doctrine.....Liberalism, Communism, Socialism, Fascism, Nazism and Progressivism.....has such a palpable fear of morality and religion?


Have you ever considered how many millions of human being....not even counting the million slaughtered via abortion and infanticide......have been murdered by collectivism?


For comparison, conservatism is based on individualism, free markets and limited constitutional government.



Warning....if this is the first time you have tried to think, you may be subject to an aneurysm.

 

[LilOlLady]

Diary of an Unborn Child
Day 1: fertilization: all human chromosomes are present; unique human life begins.

Day 6: embryo begins implantation in the uterus.

Day 22: heart begins to beat with the child’s own blood, often a different type than the mothers’.

Week 3: By the end of third week the child’s backbone spinal column and nervous system are forming. The liver, kidneys and intestines begin to take shape.

Week 4: By the end of week four the child is ten thousand times larger than the fertilized egg.

Week 5: Eyes, legs, and hands begin to develop
Week 6: Brain waves are detectable; mouth and lips are present; fingernails are forming.

Week 7: Eyelids, and toes form, nose distinct. The baby is kicking and swimming.

Week 8: Every organ is in place, bones begin to replace cartilage, and fingerprints begin to form. By the 8th week the baby can begin to hear.

Weeks 9 and 10: Teeth begin to form, fingernails develop. The baby can turn his head, and frown. The baby can hiccup.

Weeks 10 and 11: The baby can “breathe” amniotic fluid and urinate. Week 11 the baby can grasp objects placed in its hand; all organ systems are functioning. The baby has a skeletal structure, nerves, and circulation.

Week 12: The baby has all of the parts necessary to experience pain, including nerves, spinal cord, and thalamus. Vocal cords are complete. The baby can suck its thumb.

Week 14: At this age, the heart pumps several quarts of blood through the body every day.

Week 15: The baby has an adult’s taste buds.

Month 4: Bone Marrow is now beginning to form. The heart is pumping 25 quarts of blood a day. By the end of month 4 the baby will be 8-10 inches in length and will weigh up to half a pound.

Week 17: The baby can have dream (REM) sleep.

Week 19: Babies can routinely be saved at 21 to 22 weeks after fertilization, and sometimes they can be saved even younger.

Week 20: At 20 weeks the baby recognizes its’ mothers voice. At 20 weeks, the unborn child is capable of feeling pain. This is also the earliest at which partial-birth abortion is performed.
Diary of an Unborn Child | National Right to Life

 

[BlueGin]

Illogical. Fail.
There is a HUGE difference between adults (your reference above) and fetuses (NOT yours).
You really do need more education on biology, especially its developmental perspective.

Ah, so you would favor the legal murder of children under the age of, say, 5? Not yet adult, right? Smaller difference, right? Look at the difference between a 2 year old and a 20 year old. Huge!

No, I do not favor murder of humans or other born animals.
Abortion of unborn humans (fetuses and younger) with full consent by the pregnant female (NOT YOU) is not murder.
......

You have to try and convince yourself of that to live with your immoral position. The taking of innocent life as a matter of convenience is vile murder - to you - under any other circumstances. If one second and one centimeter this way or that in the birth canal indicates or precludes "life" to you, it's time to re-calibrate your moral compass.

Exactly

And join a nutty church perhaps?

No matter how much you try to convince yourself or others otherwise. Aborting a baby even up until birth or killing a baby born alive after a botched abortion is murder.

If you can’t hack that knowledge and have to lie to convince yourself by pretending otherwise sounds like a personal problem.

 

[PoliticalChic]

"Ants are extremely social creatures and their ability to survive depends on their community in a very similar way to humans," said Dr. Reinberg, who is also a member of the NYU Cancer Institute. "Whether they are workers, soldiers or queens, ants seem to be a perfect fit to study whether epigenetics influences behavior and aging."

Genomes of two ant species sequenced: Clues to their extraordinary social behavior

So have you ever killed an ant?? If you eat meat, mushrooms or fish or even an egg then you ok killing. If you kill an ant, a fly, or even a worm, then you are a killer or murderer, see that takes premeditation.​

There is a difference between the life of an animal and the life of a human. Man is the only creature or creation of God which has the ability to be saved if he will turn to the Lord Jesus. Animals do not have the moral conscience which tells them they are sinners in need of forgiveness
Man was created in the image and likeness of God (Genesis 2:26-27). Therefore, man is triune in nature–he possesses spirit, soul and body. He is a trichotomous being. On the other hand, animals possess body and soul, but not spirit. This would make them dichotomous beings.

Being dichotomous in nature, an animal would have no sense of right or wrong–no conscience. Therefore, even though he loves his master, and is loved by his master, and even though he may learn to “obey” his master, he would not be held accountable by God for his actions. The Lord gave man “dominion” over all animal life (Genesis 1:26-28).

However, the Lord made provision for the care of animals (Genesis 9:9-10; Psalm 36:6-1 Deuteronomy 25:4; Psalm 104). Even though animals are without a soul and we do have “dominion” over them, this doesn’t mean we should ever be intentionally abusive to anima

You do realize that this board is made up of many who are not Christian, don't you? So your referring to Jesus and being saved doesn't interest them in the least.

I am not a Christian but I know what is morally right and wrong and murder is wrong even if you are an atheist.

Murder is against the law, abortion isn't.

Abortion is murder.

It's what we mean when we speak of ending a life.



Do you ever get beyond bumper stickers?

 

[Unkotare]

I am not a Christian but I know what is morally right and wrong and murder is wrong even if you are an atheist.

Murder is against the law, abortion isn't.

The unborn is alive and living off the host who is the mother where it gets it food, oxygen, etc so aborting a living being is murder and a crime. When the unborn is aborted it dies. It is not like cutting down a tree.

You can keep saying that until the cows come home, but it still doesn't make it murder except in your mind. Like I said before, murder is a crime in this country, abortion isn't.

Clearly, you lack the courage to even look at the issue honestly and directly.

I AM looking at it honestly. I'm not the one spouting the religious crap here......

Recognizing life is "religious crap" now? If you came upon a dead body in the street, you wouldn't be able to recognize its condition?

 

[denmark]

Illogical. Fail.
There is a HUGE difference between adults (your reference above) and fetuses (NOT yours).
You really do need more education on biology, especially its developmental perspective.

Ah, so you would favor the legal murder of children under the age of, say, 5? Not yet adult, right? Smaller difference, right? Look at the difference between a 2 year old and a 20 year old. Huge!

No, I do not favor murder of humans or other born animals.
Abortion of unborn humans (fetuses and younger) with full consent by the pregnant female (NOT YOU) is not murder.
......

You have to try and convince yourself of that to live with your immoral position. The taking of innocent life as a matter of convenience is vile murder - to you - under any other circumstances. If one second and one centimeter this way or that in the birth canal indicates or precludes "life" to you, it's time to re-calibrate your moral compass.

I am fine with my moral compass. I don’t stick my subjective nose into other personal affairs unless they need assistance. I believe strongly in the Planned Parenthood philosophy.

Yes, you believe strongly in slaughtering the most innocent in society with more heartless brutality than you demand for you lunch meat. Sure, talk about that moral compass again...

I’m sure you feel content in your extremist rhetoric. Very unrealistic, subjective, and authoritarian, to say the least. You remind me of the contrary phrase “Don’t tread on me”. Is that not a conservative viewpoint?

 

[Vandalshandle]

Ah, so you would favor the legal murder of children under the age of, say, 5? Not yet adult, right? Smaller difference, right? Look at the difference between a 2 year old and a 20 year old. Huge!

No, I do not favor murder of humans or other born animals.
Abortion of unborn humans (fetuses and younger) with full consent by the pregnant female (NOT YOU) is not murder.
......

You have to try and convince yourself of that to live with your immoral position. The taking of innocent life as a matter of convenience is vile murder - to you - under any other circumstances. If one second and one centimeter this way or that in the birth canal indicates or precludes "life" to you, it's time to re-calibrate your moral compass.

Exactly

And join a nutty church perhaps?

No matter how much you try to convince yourself or others otherwise. Aborting a baby even up until birth or killing a baby born alive after a botched abortion is murder.

If you can’t hack that knowledge and have to lie to convince yourself by pretending otherwise sounds like a personal problem.

I'll keep that in mind while thinking of ways to control your life, in accordance with my moral beliefs...

 

[SassyIrishLass]

No, I do not favor murder of humans or other born animals.
Abortion of unborn humans (fetuses and younger) with full consent by the pregnant female (NOT YOU) is not murder.
......

You have to try and convince yourself of that to live with your immoral position. The taking of innocent life as a matter of convenience is vile murder - to you - under any other circumstances. If one second and one centimeter this way or that in the birth canal indicates or precludes "life" to you, it's time to re-calibrate your moral compass.

Exactly

And join a nutty church perhaps?

No matter how much you try to convince yourself or others otherwise. Aborting a baby even up until birth or killing a baby born alive after a botched abortion is murder.

If you can’t hack that knowledge and have to lie to convince yourself by pretending otherwise sounds like a personal problem.

I'll keep that in mind while thinking of ways to control your life, in accordance with my moral beliefs...

If you support baby murder it's obvious you're lacking morals

 

[Hale]

Never thought I'd see the day when republicans want total control over your body. It's not your body it belongs to the state and the church..And don't forget to work yer fingers to the bone..

It's probably best not to comment when you clearly did not read Post #1.

 

[LilOlLady]

I am not a Christian but I know what is morally right and wrong and murder is wrong even if you are an atheist.

Murder is against the law, abortion isn't.

The unborn is alive and living off the host who is the mother where it gets it food, oxygen, etc so aborting a living being is murder and a crime. When the unborn is aborted it dies. It is not like cutting down a tree.

You can keep saying that until the cows come home, but it still doesn't make it murder except in your mind. Like I said before, murder is a crime in this country, abortion isn't.

In the eyes of our creator abortion is a crime. And GOD's law always trump man's law.

This is the US and we have a Constitution that governs this country, and no matter how many times you say it, abortion is NOT a crime here. You want to live in a country that is governed by religion, move to Brazil. It's a Catholic country that outlaws abortion. You'd fit right in there.

Again it is not about Christianity but Morality which is an inborn trait in all humans.
You may ignorantly believe the constitution is in charge but the reality is that GOD is in charge. Writers of the Constitution were Christians. All of the signers were Protestant Christians with one exception, Charles Carroll of Maryland, who was Roman Catholic. LMAO
Abortion may not be a crime in this country but in eyes of GOD it is a crime.

 

[Kittymom1026]

Uh, no we aren't and never was. The founding fathers were Deists and made sure there is separation of church and state. The First Amendment allows for freedom of religion, but also allows freedom FROM religion.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

"The founding fathers were Deists..."


You must be a government school grad, huh?


No, they weren't 'deists.'



Let's prove it together.


The truth about American's founders is..."all of whom, even if some did not individually adhere to orthodox Christianity, were steeped in the Judeo-Christian tradition.

Here’s what we can say for certain about their religious beliefs.

a) All of the Founders believed in a transcendent God, that is, a Creator who exists outside of nature.
b) All the Founders believed in a God who imposes moral obligations on human beings
c) All the Founders believed in a God who punishes bad behavior and rewards good behavior in an afterlife."







https://www.prageru.com/courses/history/were-founders-religious

As the dupes of the Left throw around terms to make their case, let's see what "Deist" actually means.

As there is far, far too much evidence for the Judeo-Christian basis of our nation, those on the Left....desiring to adhere to Marx's doctrines....attempt to call the Founders 'deists' to attempt to pry them from being called 'religious.'

de•ism
noun
belief in the existence of a supreme being, specifically of a creator who does not intervene in the universe. The term is used chiefly of an intellectual movement of the 17th and 18th centuries that accepted the existence of a creator on the basis of reason but rejected belief in a supernatural deity who interacts with humankind. Google




"The notion that any of the Founders believed in an impersonal deity who merely created the universe and then left it to itself is false. All of them believed in a God who, as Franklin said at the Constitutional Convention, “governs in the affairs of men.”


I'd be happy to prove it with specific Founders.

Deism and the Founding Fathers
As 'children of the Enlightenment,' many of America's 'Founding Fathers' were deists. There is much debate among historians over which Founding Fathers were or were not deists. This is because many of the writings of our Founders contain varying degrees of deist thought. It is important to keep in mind that deist thinking was often synthesized with Christianity, and also tended to be vague. So historians often disagree over who was an outright deist, and who was a Christian 'with deist sympathies.' That said, many of our Founders were influenced by deist thinking to varying degrees.

Thomas Jefferson is generally considered a deist. In fact, he was so skeptical of supernatural occurrences that he took a knife and cut out passages in his Bible that referred to miracles. 'Jefferson's Bible,' as it has been called, is still around today and belongs to the Smithsonian Institute. Benjamin Franklin is also widely believed to have been a deist. James Madison is thought to have been a deist, though there is much debate over this. A leading American deist was Thomas Paine, writer of The Age of Reason, Common Sense, and many other works. How about George Washington? Debate over his religious views is particularly heated. The truth is that no one is really sure. Washington commonly referred to 'Providence' instead of 'God,' yet he is generally thought to have been an Episcopalian.

Deism & the Founding Fathers: Definition & Beliefs | Study.com

More?
Sure thing:

4. As there is far, far too much evidence for the Judeo-Christian basis of our nation, those on the Left....desiring to adhere to Marx's doctrines....attempt to call the Founders 'deists' to attempt to pry them from being called 'religious.'

de•ism
noun
belief in the existence of a supreme being, specifically of a creator who does not intervene in the universe. The term is used chiefly of an intellectual movement of the 17th and 18th centuries that accepted the existence of a creator on the basis of reason but rejected belief in a supernatural deity who interacts with humankind. Google




5. "The notion that any of the Founders believed in an impersonal deity who merely created the universe and then left it to itself is false. All of them believed in a God who, as Franklin said at the Constitutional Convention, “governs in the affairs of men.”


Let’s start with George Washington.

Washington’s writings, both public and private, are full of references to the Bible. This is certainly true during his eight years as the first President of the United States.

Here is Washington at his first Inaugural:
“The propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right, which Heaven itself has ordained.”
In all likelihood, Washington was an orthodox Christian.


Like Washington, Benjamin Franklin also referenced Bible verses, stories, and metaphors throughout his life. His calls for prayer at the Constitutional Convention were typical of his attitude. Franklin, who had his own unorthodox views, summed up his faith this way: “That the soul of man is immortal, and will be treated with justice in another life respecting its conduct in this.”

Clearly not a view of God ignoring his creations.


6. When it comes to John Adams, the Leftwing sophists have a field day!

"Adams referred to himself as a Christian throughout his life, but did not believe in traditional Christian doctrines such as the trinity or the divinity of Jesus.... [but] before, during and after his tenure as President, Adams repeatedly asserted his admiration for the Christian faith... Adams spoke of his great respect for the Bible. “[T]he Bible is the best book in the world. It contains more of my… philosophy than all the libraries I have seen…”


a. Those who suggest that Adams was in any way against religion like to quote from a letter he wrote to Thomas Jefferson in which he said, “This would be the best of all possible worlds if there was no religion in it.”

Seems to be a perfect spokesman for Marx or Lenin, no?

Definitely, no.



Unfortunately, those who cite this line never quote the lines that immediately follow “But in this exclamation, I should have been as fanatical as [the skeptics of religion]. Without religion, this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite company—I mean hell.”

So, those who quote the first line without quoting the subsequent lines are either unaware of the full comment or are deliberately misleading people as to Adams’s beliefs."
Ibid.


7. "Like Adams, Thomas Jefferson did not adhere to orthodox doctrine. Yet he often declared himself to be a Christian. “I am a Christian, he said, “in the only sense he [Jesus] wished anyone to be: sincerely attached to his doctrines...”

As one of the leaders of the American Revolution, his views are well known. After all, this is the man who wrote in the Declaration of Independence that “all men… are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” You can’t get a much more explicit statement of belief than that.



These four founders – Washington, Adams, Jefferson and Franklin – were practical men with a sober view of human nature. They understood that man is morally weak and that religion provides the best encouragement and incentive to be good.

It does so, first and foremost, by teaching that choices have consequences. Not necessarily in the here and now, but most certainly in the hereafter – meted out by a just God.


It should come as no surprise, then, that Jefferson, in his second inaugural, asked for, “The favor of that Being in whose hands we are, who led our forefathers, as Israel of old, from their native land.”
https://www.prageru.com/courses/history/were-founders-religious


And all of them were rooted in the Judeo-Christian values found in the Bible.
“52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” David Limbaugh


Why is it sooooo very important for Leftist to disparage religon?

Because it is essential to their central doctrine to do so.

8. "The concept of atheism is an essential element of Marxism. As Lenin stated: "Atheism is a natural and inseparable portion of Marxism, of the theory and practice of Scientific Socialism." If God exists and is in supreme command of the universe, He possesses discretionary power, and His actions cannot always be calculated accurately in advance. The whole edifice of Marxism collapses.

When Marx and the Communists deny the existence of God, they simultaneously deny the authority of the Ten Commandments, the existence of absolute standards of right and wrong, of good and evil; and man is left on the playing fields of the universe without a referee, without a book of rules. The winning side in any conflict can decide on what rules of conduct to apply. Morality is the creation of the victor." The Schwarz Report | Essays




9. The Founders memorialized the very opposite in our founding documents.

There are four references to ‘Divine’ in Declaration of Independence

1)in first paragraph ‘Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God,’ 2) next paragraph ‘endowed by their Creator,” 3) Supreme Judge of the world, and 4) ‘divine’ Providence, last paragraph.

This is important because our historic documents memorialize a government based on individuals born with inalienable rights, by, in various references, by the Divine, or Nature’s God, or their Creator, or the Supreme Judge, or divine Providence.


Since these rights are associated with each individual, they cannot be withdrawn, or subjugated to the will of a governing body.


And...despite the secular nature of our national government, there is one unambiguous reference to Christ in the Constitution. Article VII dates the Constitution in "the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven."
"The Year of Our Lord" and separation.



This leaves Leftists with only two choices....deny, or ignore.

Maybe three: lie.

Two of those links don't work and the third one pretty much just addresses what I said about freedom both from and of religion.
And, the Declaration of Independence says "creator" not God or Jesus. Many different religions have different names for their "God."
Maybe we dreaded liberals aren't so much against religion as we are against those that try to shove theirs down our throats. Believe all you want, but don't come on public forums and preach it and attack those that don't think and believe as you do.
And, you don't even know what I believe because unlike many of you here, I don't publicly discuss it. I mainly don't like any kind of organized religion, and especially the kind that preaches politics from the pulpit. For some reason, they now think they can do it without any repercussions. Maybe it's because now they can.
Do you honestly want this country to become a theocracy? What if the religion chosen to be the only one is not something you believe in? Will you be good with that?
You know what they say....beware of what you wish for, you just might get it.

Actually, the DoI has four such references.

There are four references to ‘Devine’ in D of I… 1)in first paragraph ‘Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God,’ 2) next paragraph ‘endowed by their Creator,” 3) Supreme Judge of the world, and 4) ‘divine’ Providence, last paragraph.


And, as I said earlier, the Constitution has a specific reference to Jesus Christ.

This is important because our historic documents memorialize a government based on individuals born with inalienable rights, by, in various references, by the Devine, or Nature’s God, or their Creator, or the Supreme Judge, or divine Providence.

Where exactly does it mention specifically Jesus Christ by his name because all I could find was the word creator. Here's an article about it and this is in it..

This is not supported by the historical evidence, and the prime exhibits are the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, with no explicit mention of God in the Constitution, and one mention of, as Cooper clearly points out, “…*a* god…”, in the Declaration of Independence.
It's a pretty comprehensive piece and covers about everything...

https://www.quora.com/Are-the-words-God-Jesus-or-the-Bible-in-the-U-S-Constitution

 

[dblack]

Abortion is murder.

That's one opinion. But it's not the consensus of current law. You're free to argue that it should change, of course, but simply restating your opinion over and over again isn't very persuasive.

 

[dblack]

No, I do not favor murder of humans or other born animals.
Abortion of unborn humans (fetuses and younger) with full consent by the pregnant female (NOT YOU) is not murder.
......

You have to try and convince yourself of that to live with your immoral position. The taking of innocent life as a matter of convenience is vile murder - to you - under any other circumstances. If one second and one centimeter this way or that in the birth canal indicates or precludes "life" to you, it's time to re-calibrate your moral compass.

Exactly

And join a nutty church perhaps?

No matter how much you try to convince yourself or others otherwise. Aborting a baby even up until birth or killing a baby born alive after a botched abortion is murder.

If you can’t hack that knowledge and have to lie to convince yourself by pretending otherwise sounds like a personal problem.

I'll keep that in mind while thinking of ways to control your life, in accordance with my moral beliefs...

I hope you're not kidding about that.