My fellow Conservatives...please read this.

[nodoginnafight]

I agree with the principle. The part I disagree with is that those who would force their morality on everybody else are conservative at all. Such are authoritarians that are no different from modern American liberals who would force their version of morality on all; they just have different objectives.

At the same time, freedom must include an ability to form the society we want even if it it seems to be morally rigid and isn't everybody else's cup of tea. True freedom allows people to be who they are just so long as they don't infringe on the rights of others.

Fox,

We actually agree. My issue is that the Republican party wraps themselves up in "values" and makes them a key point of their campaign and platforms. Thus, they are saying vote for me and I'll give you X society as opposed to my opponent who will give you Y society. Both are using social issues to sell their brand. In a free society, government should tend to government and leave the social experiments to society to sort out. Neither the liberals or the conservatives currently do this. as a conservative, I have my own personal views on social issues, but I am not looking for a candidate who will legislate a marriage amendment anymore than I am looking for a candidate that will legislate gay marriage. I want someone who will follow the constitutional mandates of what government is limited to and nothing more.

Exactly, and why the left gets away with it is because they own the media, and they've influenced the newest generation of voters thru education and have 'taught' them that what they, the left, promote are the 'right' things, while demonizing their opponent, as Fox mentioned a post or two ago. They've planned well and it's been something that has been in motion for decades.

On no, not another "the media did it" guy.
At what point do you stop blaming others and start taking personal responsibility ...

The media didn't come out against equal pay initiatives for women, the media didn't promote "self deport," the media didn't write a platform that includes no provision for abortion in the case of rape or incest, the media didn't sponsor "defense of marriage" legislation.
The GOP did.
I hate to pop your fantasy bubble but those things are MINORITY positions.
Rural Americans and urban Americans have very different visions of what "America" is and what it should be.
The media didn't invent that. That's been here from the very begining.
The demographics are skewing away from you. Deal with it or lead opinion back to you - but please stop whining as if "everyone really agrees with us - it's just the media"

 

[Newby]

Fox,

We actually agree. My issue is that the Republican party wraps themselves up in "values" and makes them a key point of their campaign and platforms. Thus, they are saying vote for me and I'll give you X society as opposed to my opponent who will give you Y society. Both are using social issues to sell their brand. In a free society, government should tend to government and leave the social experiments to society to sort out. Neither the liberals or the conservatives currently do this. as a conservative, I have my own personal views on social issues, but I am not looking for a candidate who will legislate a marriage amendment anymore than I am looking for a candidate that will legislate gay marriage. I want someone who will follow the constitutional mandates of what government is limited to and nothing more.

Exactly, and why the left gets away with it is because they own the media, and they've influenced the newest generation of voters thru education and have 'taught' them that what they, the left, promote are the 'right' things, while demonizing their opponent, as Fox mentioned a post or two ago. They've planned well and it's been something that has been in motion for decades.

On no, not another "the media did it" guy.
At what point do you stop blaming others and start taking personal responsibility ...

The media didn't come out against equal pay initiatives for women, the media didn't promote "self deport," the media didn't write a platform that includes no provision for abortion in the case of rape or incest, the media didn't sponsor "defense of marriage" legislation.
The GOP did.
I hate to pop your fantasy bubble but those things are MINORITY positions.
Rural Americans and urban Americans have very different visions of what "America" is and what it should be.
The media didn't invent that.

Who did? And why are those things THE MOST IMPORTANT topic in the media and with liberal voters during an election where our economical fiscal position is about to crash?

 

[kaz]

I'm positive the liberals will lampoon this thread mercilessly.

They would like nothing better than to witness the self destruction of the Republican party.

Simply ignore it.

They have their motivation....we recognize it...it is no threat.

Alinsky's rules only work if you allow yourself to be cowed by them.

I'd like to see the Republican party destroyed and remade to actually have conservative principals.

Please work on it!

I agree, I'd also like to see the same happen to the Democratic party and liberal principals.

 

[Newby]

Well said. This is what I see as a (perhaps 'the') key difference between conservatives and libertarians - even when the two views sometimes support the same policies. Both libertarians and conservatives are opposed to the welfare state, for example. But libertarians oppose it on limited government principles, whereas conservatives oppose it as a moral concern (they don't want to encourage "shiftless freeloaders").

I don't find it a very reliable co-alignment. As soon as limited government principles conflict with the moral mandates of the conservatives, small government is dropped in favor of "whatever it takes" to drive home their moral agenda.

Who defines this 'moral madate' that conservatives supposedly have? Or is it a label that's been applied thru endless lies and propaganda campaigns via the media for years and years?

You're kidding right?

It's a simple question, care to answer it?

 

[Photonic]

Who defines this 'moral madate' that conservatives supposedly have? Or is it a label that's been applied thru endless lies and propaganda campaigns via the media for years and years?

You're kidding right?

It's a simple question, care to answer it?

I think you should turn around and look for answers from your own party, they did it. Not me. It's the reason I didn't vote republican this year.

 

[Photonic]

I'm positive the liberals will lampoon this thread mercilessly.

They would like nothing better than to witness the self destruction of the Republican party.

Simply ignore it.

They have their motivation....we recognize it...it is no threat.

Alinsky's rules only work if you allow yourself to be cowed by them.

I'd like to see the Republican party destroyed and remade to actually have conservative principals.

Please work on it!

I agree, I'd also like to see the same happen to the Democratic party and liberal principals.

I disagree. Their social policy is top notch.

 

[4Horsemen]

The piggy bank is about empty...

that's why they're so desperate to tax the rich. Still how long do you think it will take obummer to reach 20 trillion in debt? Should we start a pole?

it's at $16 trillion now...so ummm....6 months?...lol

 

[kwc57]

The republican party ran on a platform of legitimate rape, and oppression of women this year. Perhaps avoid that in the future.

Stop letting your extremists get into positions of power, and you're golden.

Educate your extremist ass and get back to the class on what you learned.

2012 Republican Platform - GOP

Ever wonder why Todd Atkins didn't get re-elected?

Why is a vast majority of the women vote not going to the republican party?

Could it be the extremist social conservative policies that would send us spiraling backwards through time itself?

Deal with it. The American people spoke. Your policies our out of touch with humanities progress towards an actual future we can care about. While the democrats aren't the party I would optimally vote for, at least they have their social policies straight.

You do realize that it was one single individual candidate who made a stoopid ass "legitimate" rape remark and he was roundly admonished by other conservatives and even asked to drop out. Do you always paint with a broad brush?

As to why women vote democrat, it is because of false issues drummed up for scare tatic purposes. If the democrats didn't have a complicent media and the playing field were level, that kind of shit would never get traction.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Exactly, and why the left gets away with it is because they own the media, and they've influenced the newest generation of voters thru education and have 'taught' them that what they, the left, promote are the 'right' things, while demonizing their opponent, as Fox mentioned a post or two ago. They've planned well and it's been something that has been in motion for decades.

On no, not another "the media did it" guy.
At what point do you stop blaming others and start taking personal responsibility ...

The media didn't come out against equal pay initiatives for women, the media didn't promote "self deport," the media didn't write a platform that includes no provision for abortion in the case of rape or incest, the media didn't sponsor "defense of marriage" legislation.
The GOP did.
I hate to pop your fantasy bubble but those things are MINORITY positions.
Rural Americans and urban Americans have very different visions of what "America" is and what it should be.
The media didn't invent that.

Who did? And why are those things THE MOST IMPORTANT topic in the media and with liberal voters during an election where our economical fiscal position is about to crash?

No one "invented" it - it is a different vision of American. Rural parts of the country have ALWAYS been more wary of the federal government and urban voters have always been more accepting of a strong federal system.

The demographics are now skewing against you and your positions. Either lead opinion back to you or deal with the new realities. Your "it's the media's fault" meme is lame, worn out, and the antithesis of self reliance.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Educate your extremist ass and get back to the class on what you learned.

2012 Republican Platform - GOP

Ever wonder why Todd Atkins didn't get re-elected?

Why is a vast majority of the women vote not going to the republican party?

Could it be the extremist social conservative policies that would send us spiraling backwards through time itself?

Deal with it. The American people spoke. Your policies our out of touch with humanities progress towards an actual future we can care about. While the democrats aren't the party I would optimally vote for, at least they have their social policies straight.

You do realize that it was one single individual candidate who made a stoopid ass "legitimate" rape remark and he was roundly admonished by other conservatives and even asked to drop out. Do you always paint with a broad brush?

As to why women vote democrat, it is because of false issues drummed up for scare tatic purposes. If the democrats didn't have a complicent media and the playing field were level, that kind of shit would never get traction.

No it wasn't just one - one said the stuff about legitimate rape and another said babies conceived by rape are gifts from God.

Yes, just a few lame-brains spouting off. But it hurt. I personally believe the GOP's consistent positions on equal pay initiatives, abortion, imigration, same-sex marriage, etc ... hurt much more.

 

[Newby]

Who defines this 'moral madate' that conservatives supposedly have? Or is it a label that's been applied thru endless lies and propaganda campaigns via the media for years and years?

Conservatives do, I suppose. I guess I'm not sure what you're getting at. Are you denying that conservatives see these issues more often from a moral perspective than from a limited government view?

I'm saying it's more a convenient label that's been greatly exaggerated and applied via the media at every opportunity. Why are leftist moral principals viewed as acceptable, but conservative ones are not? Because it's been pervasive thru media and education that the leftist agenda is the 'right' one for the last several decades, and it's been heavily promoted that way. An example, 'Choice' is the morally correct principal of the day, even if it means a woman killing her own child in the womb, yet all of a sudden having 'choice' as to whether you feel you need health care insurance or not is irrelevant. If it helps someone else have health care that couldn't afford it without you purchasing it, you no longer have a 'choice', you're now obligated to participate whether you like it or not. These two notions are diametrically opposed, yet embraced and accepted by the media and promoted as the 'right' or 'moral' thing to do. Their morals are advertised as 'desired' while morals that go against their agenda are demonized. It's still pushing morals on people, just one side's morals over the others. I see no difference. It's hypocrisy.

 

[Newby]

You're kidding right?

It's a simple question, care to answer it?

I think you should turn around and look for answers from your own party, they did it. Not me. It's the reason I didn't vote republican this year.

You made the claim, yet you can't back it up?

 

[kwc57]

Fox,

We actually agree. My issue is that the Republican party wraps themselves up in "values" and makes them a key point of their campaign and platforms. Thus, they are saying vote for me and I'll give you X society as opposed to my opponent who will give you Y society. Both are using social issues to sell their brand. In a free society, government should tend to government and leave the social experiments to society to sort out. Neither the liberals or the conservatives currently do this. as a conservative, I have my own personal views on social issues, but I am not looking for a candidate who will legislate a marriage amendment anymore than I am looking for a candidate that will legislate gay marriage. I want someone who will follow the constitutional mandates of what government is limited to and nothing more.

Exactly, and why the left gets away with it is because they own the media, and they've influenced the newest generation of voters thru education and have 'taught' them that what they, the left, promote are the 'right' things, while demonizing their opponent, as Fox mentioned a post or two ago. They've planned well and it's been something that has been in motion for decades.

On no, not another "the media did it" guy.
At what point do you stop blaming others and start taking personal responsibility ...The media didn't come out against equal pay initiatives for women, the media didn't promote "self deport," the media didn't write a platform that includes no provision for abortion in the case of rape or incest, the media didn't sponsor "defense of marriage" legislation.
The GOP did.
I hate to pop your fantasy bubble but those things are MINORITY positions.
Rural Americans and urban Americans have very different visions of what "America" is and what it should be.
The media didn't invent that. That's been here from the very begining.
The demographics are skewing away from you. Deal with it or lead opinion back to you - but please stop whining as if "everyone really agrees with us - it's just the media"

Seriously? You ask about personal responsibility when you relected a guy with a failed presidency and still blames his predecessor? Really? Quit acting like you take personal responsibility serious. You voted in favor of blaming other people yesterday. As far as the media, one word, Benghazi. Why is only one news organization following the trail and documenting facts while the others look the other way and whistle? You honestly think the media isn't running cover? Interested in buying a bridge?

 

[Newby]

Educate your extremist ass and get back to the class on what you learned.

2012 Republican Platform - GOP

Ever wonder why Todd Atkins didn't get re-elected?

Why is a vast majority of the women vote not going to the republican party?

Could it be the extremist social conservative policies that would send us spiraling backwards through time itself?

Deal with it. The American people spoke. Your policies our out of touch with humanities progress towards an actual future we can care about. While the democrats aren't the party I would optimally vote for, at least they have their social policies straight.

You do realize that it was one single individual candidate who made a stoopid ass "legitimate" rape remark and he was roundly admonished by other conservatives and even asked to drop out. Do you always paint with a broad brush?

As to why women vote democrat, it is because of false issues drummed up for scare tatic purposes. If the democrats didn't have a complicent media and the playing field were level, that kind of shit would never get traction.

That's exactly what they do in order to demonize the whole party, it's been their m.o. for years.

 

[nodoginnafight]

I don't mean to make anyone angry and maybe it's too soon after a bitter disappointment to be having the "where it went wrong discussion."
I apologize for any offenses and I wish you all the very best.
btw - for self identification purposes, I voted for three Democrats, one Republican, and two Libertarians last night.

I'm not just some wild-eyed liberal trying to gloat or rub anything in. I legitimately WANT to see the GOP or the Libertarian Party become legitimate options once more. But the swing to the far right on social issues is in my way (for the GOP). I sincerely hope you get it worked out.

Have a great day.

 

[kwc57]

You're kidding right?

It's a simple question, care to answer it?

I think you should turn around and look for answers from your own party, they did it. Not me. It's the reason I didn't vote republican this year.

Hey, you need to quit crowding JakeFakey's corner here at USMB or it could get ugly.

 

[Newby]

On no, not another "the media did it" guy.
At what point do you stop blaming others and start taking personal responsibility ...

The media didn't come out against equal pay initiatives for women, the media didn't promote "self deport," the media didn't write a platform that includes no provision for abortion in the case of rape or incest, the media didn't sponsor "defense of marriage" legislation.
The GOP did.
I hate to pop your fantasy bubble but those things are MINORITY positions.
Rural Americans and urban Americans have very different visions of what "America" is and what it should be.
The media didn't invent that.

Who did? And why are those things THE MOST IMPORTANT topic in the media and with liberal voters during an election where our economical fiscal position is about to crash?

No one "invented" it - it is a different vision of American. Rural parts of the country have ALWAYS been more wary of the federal government and urban voters have always been more accepting of a strong federal system.

The demographics are now skewing against you and your positions. Either lead opinion back to you or deal with the new realities. Your "it's the media's fault" meme is lame, worn out, and the antithesis of self reliance.

So now it's 'urban' versus 'rural'? I thought is was conservative views? So which is it? Conservative or rural? Or are they both one and the same?

What are 'my positions'? You don't even know me, yet you claim to know what 'my positions' are.

 

[kwc57]

On no, not another "the media did it" guy.
At what point do you stop blaming others and start taking personal responsibility ...

The media didn't come out against equal pay initiatives for women, the media didn't promote "self deport," the media didn't write a platform that includes no provision for abortion in the case of rape or incest, the media didn't sponsor "defense of marriage" legislation.
The GOP did.
I hate to pop your fantasy bubble but those things are MINORITY positions.
Rural Americans and urban Americans have very different visions of what "America" is and what it should be.
The media didn't invent that.

Who did? And why are those things THE MOST IMPORTANT topic in the media and with liberal voters during an election where our economical fiscal position is about to crash?

No one "invented" it - it is a different vision of American. Rural parts of the country have ALWAYS been more wary of the federal government and urban voters have always been more accepting of a strong federal system.

The demographics are now skewing against you and your positions. Either lead opinion back to you or deal with the new realities. Your "it's the media's fault" meme is lame, worn out, and the antithesis of self reliance.

Let me clarify your doublespeak. The people who like free stuff have realized they need to keep the democrats in power to keep getting free stuff. Where it comes from doesn't matter since it is free.

 

[catzmeow]

As to why women vote democrat, it is because of false issues drummed up for scare tatic purposes. If the democrats didn't have a complicent media and the playing field were level, that kind of shit would never get traction.

This kind of thinking will continue to ensure future Democratic presidencies.

55% of women don't vote for your party because they don't agree with your vision for America. Ditto young voters.

Adapt or die.

 

[catzmeow]

Let me clarify your doublespeak. The people who like free stuff have realized they need to keep the democrats in power to keep getting free stuff. Where it comes from doesn't matter since it is free.

Mischaracterizing people who've rejected your worldview is another good way to lose elections.