Myths, Hypotheses and Facts Concerning the Origin of Peoples

[Coyote]

Seriously, get over it. Palestinians are Arabs that are identical to their neighbors. To say that "Palestinians are the same as the Jews" is akin to saying that ALL ARABS, Jordanians, Syrians, Saudi Arabians, Iraqis, Egyptians, and Lebanese are the same Jews. And that is one of the the most ludicrous and ignorant things I have heard.

Besides, what does this debunked study that have to do with the the topic of is this thread other than a futile attempt to derail it and start talking abut Jews? The topic is Arabs who have stood up and publicly declared the idea of a Palestinian or Palestinian identity as a fraud.

No, it's not the same because all "Arabs" aren't the same.

I'm not saying Palestinians are the same as all Jews but there is very little difference between them and the Palestinian Jews.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

I'm not saying Palestinians are the same as all Jews but there is very little difference between them and the Palestinian Jews.

You destroy any chance of having a meaningful discussion by constantly repeating this nonsense.

 

[Coyote]

I'm not saying Palestinians are the same as all Jews but there is very little difference between them and the Palestinian Jews.

You destroy any chance of having a meaningful discussion by constantly repeating this nonsense.

It's supported by genetics.

 

[Roudy]

Seriously, get over it. Palestinians are Arabs that are identical to their neighbors. To say that "Palestinians are the same as the Jews" is akin to saying that ALL ARABS, Jordanians, Syrians, Saudi Arabians, Iraqis, Egyptians, and Lebanese are the same Jews. And that is one of the the most ludicrous and ignorant things I have heard.

Besides, what does this debunked study that have to do with the the topic of is this thread other than a futile attempt to derail it and start talking abut Jews? The topic is Arabs who have stood up and publicly declared the idea of a Palestinian or Palestinian identity as a fraud.

No, it's not the same because all "Arabs" aren't the same.

I'm not saying Palestinians are the same as all Jews but there is very little difference between them and the Palestinian Jews.

Palestinians are Arabs that are identical to their neighbors, Egyptians, Jordanians, Syrians, and Lebanese, historically, genetically and culturally. The name Palestinian is a recent invention. And that's exactly what Zuhair Muhsain was trying to say.

 

[Roudy]

I'm not saying Palestinians are the same as all Jews but there is very little difference between them and the Palestinian Jews.

You destroy any chance of having a meaningful discussion by constantly repeating this nonsense.

It's supported by genetics.

Genetics show Palestinians the same as their neighboring Arabs, a million times more than any relation to Jews. You are delusional.

 

[Coyote]

Seriously, get over it. Palestinians are Arabs that are identical to their neighbors. To say that "Palestinians are the same as the Jews" is akin to saying that ALL ARABS, Jordanians, Syrians, Saudi Arabians, Iraqis, Egyptians, and Lebanese are the same Jews. And that is one of the the most ludicrous and ignorant things I have heard.

Besides, what does this debunked study that have to do with the the topic of is this thread other than a futile attempt to derail it and start talking abut Jews? The topic is Arabs who have stood up and publicly declared the idea of a Palestinian or Palestinian identity as a fraud.

No, it's not the same because all "Arabs" aren't the same.

I'm not saying Palestinians are the same as all Jews but there is very little difference between them and the Palestinian Jews.

Palestinians are Arabs that are identical to their neighbors, Egyptians, Jordanians, Syrians, and Lebanese, historically, genetically and culturally. The name Palestinian is a recent invention. And that's exactly what Zuhair Muhsain was trying to say.

Palestinians are also include Jews and some Jews are Palestinians - culturally, historically, genetically they are very similar.

 

[Coyote]

By the way, the Lebonese are not simply Arabs either:
Lebanese people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Hossfly]

No, it's not the same because all "Arabs" aren't the same.

I'm not saying Palestinians are the same as all Jews but there is very little difference between them and the Palestinian Jews.

Palestinians are Arabs that are identical to their neighbors, Egyptians, Jordanians, Syrians, and Lebanese, historically, genetically and culturally. The name Palestinian is a recent invention. And that's exactly what Zuhair Muhsain was trying to say.

Palestinians are also include Jews and some Jews are Palestinians - culturally, historically, genetically they are very similar.

Genetic research and studies have shown different results than your assumption.It's somewhere on a thread here.

 

[Coyote]

You destroy any chance of having a meaningful discussion by constantly repeating this nonsense.

It's supported by genetics.

Genetics show Palestinians the same as their neighboring Arabs, a million times more than any relation to Jews. You are delusional.

source?

 

[HistoryBefore67]

I'm not saying Palestinians are the same as all Jews but there is very little difference between them and the Palestinian Jews.

You destroy any chance of having a meaningful discussion by constantly repeating this nonsense.

It's supported by genetics.

Clearly, I erred in resuming a dialogue with you.

No matter how many times your "facts" are proven wrong, no matter how many times your angles are shown to be irrelevant and unhelpful, you just circle back to the same nonsense.

I'm out of this thread.

 

[Coyote]

You destroy any chance of having a meaningful discussion by constantly repeating this nonsense.

It's supported by genetics.

Clearly, I erred in resuming a dialogue with you.

No matter how many times your "facts" are proven wrong, no matter how many times your angles are shown to be irrelevant and unhelpful, you just circle back to the same nonsense.

I'm out of this thread.

Ya ok...PLOS Genetics: Genome-Wide Diversity in the Levant Reveals Recent Structuring by Culture

You and Roudy are right on the genetics - there are similarities, but enough differences due to religious/cultural shifts.

 

[RoccoR]

Coyote, Roudy, et al,

This has been known for some time.

It's supported by genetics.

Genetics show Palestinians the same as their neighboring Arabs, a million times more than any relation to Jews. You are delusional.

source?

(OBSERVATIONS)

The good news is that the genetics of Arabs and Jews have been pretty extensively researched. The classic study dates to 2000, from a team lead by Michael Hammer of University of Arizona. They looked at Y-chromosome haplotypes - this is the genetic material passed from father to son down the generations.

What they revealed was that Arabs and Jews are essentially a single population, and that Palestinians are slap bang in the middle of the different Jewish populations (as shown in this figure).

SOURCE: Epiphenom: The shared genetic heritage of Jews and Palestinians

The study, published in the May 9 issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, found that Jewish men shared a common set of genetic signatures with non-Jews from the Middle East, including Palestinians, Syrians, and Lebanese, and these signatures diverged significantly from non-Jewish men outside of this region. Consequently, Jews and Arabs share a common ancestor and are more closely related to one another than to non-Jews from other areas of the world.

SOURCE: Jews Are The Genetic Brothers Of Palestinians, Syrians, And Lebanese

(COMMENT)

What the implications are, I'm not sure.

Dr Jobling dismissed the idea that the study could have any political implications. "It seems that in many of these situations where groups are in conflict with each other they are likely to be pretty much genetically indistinguishable, and this factor, to the peoples involved in these conflicts, clearly isn't the point and isn't likely to change their behaviour very much."

SOURCE: BBC News | SCI/TECH | Jews and Arabs are 'genetic brothers'

This is just another reason why, as discussed in another thread, I don't use ethnic or racial indicators to from a template. However, there are separate genetic markers that may have a bearing on the issue; --- but, that is not our topic.

(IMPLICATIONS)

• Two cultures (Jews 'vs' non-Jews/Muslim), within the same ethnic origins (Arabs), are locked in combat with each other.

• Genetically, you can tie both cultures (Jews 'vs' non-Jews/Muslim) historically to the same region.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[José]

Originally posted by Hossfly
Cry havoc! and let slip the dogs of war, that this foul deed shall smell above the earth with carrion men, groaning for burial.
~~Shakespeare, William

Go for it, invader!!

Exterminate us, carpet bomb us into submission!!

I assure you, I guarantee you with 100% certainty that after you finish NO ONE will launch rockets at you anymore, noone will be claiming their stolen land anymore.

Make up your mind, invader:

Kill us now or just shut up and spare us your crap:

"OHH!! Look how good we are!! I just stole your land, herded you into ethnic enclaves but I allowed you to live!!

I think I deserve the Nobel Peace Prize!!"

Do whatever you have to do and keep your cynical bullshit to yourself, invader!!

 

[José]

Originally posted by Hossfly
By the way, José, who is the "us" when you state "Share the land you stole from us." I never was aware that there are Arabs who have the name of José.

Originally posted by Roudy
As soon as you show us when and where the land was ever OWNED by these Arabs who call themselves Palestinians, mr Arab Muslim Palestinian guy who calls himself "Jose". Ha ha ha.

LOL...

I was impersonating a palestinian for dramatic effect, Hossfly/Roudy... to give more emphasis to the point I made.

You are quite right. We are all disembodied personas on the Internet and there's no way of knowing with absolute certainty if we really are who we claim to be.

I can sustain a conversation in Spanish or Portuguese (speak both languages) in order to help prove I am who I claim to be but unfortunately we'd need another member who's a native spanish/portuguese speaker that can tell the difference between the text written by a human being and the text generated by online translators (because the damn bots do quite a decent job these days).

Here's a post of mine where I give a little Spanish lesson to help dispel any doubts:

Originally posted by justofall
The cry remember the Alamo will be replaced by the new by word

Martin Luther Quiero?

HA, HA, HA!!

Es QUIEN, no QUIERO, loco!!

It's WHO, not I WANT, you silly!!

Martin Luther Quiero means Martin Luther I Want...

The correct play on words you tried to make is:

Martin Luther Quien? = Martin Luther Who?

meaning that if and when hispanics become a majority in the USA the black civil rights movement and its leaders will mean nothing to them and they will do away with AA and all the politically correct stuff created in the 60's.

Not that I subscribe to this view... I don't have a crystal ball.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=7460866

But who cares who I am... not like it's gonna change anybody's opinion on what really matters, the I/P conflict.

 

[Hossfly]

Coyote, Roudy, et al,

This has been known for some time.

Genetics show Palestinians the same as their neighboring Arabs, a million times more than any relation to Jews. You are delusional.

source?

(OBSERVATIONS)

The study, published in the May 9 issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, found that Jewish men shared a common set of genetic signatures with non-Jews from the Middle East, including Palestinians, Syrians, and Lebanese, and these signatures diverged significantly from non-Jewish men outside of this region. Consequently, Jews and Arabs share a common ancestor and are more closely related to one another than to non-Jews from other areas of the world.

SOURCE: Jews Are The Genetic Brothers Of Palestinians, Syrians, And Lebanese

(COMMENT)

What the implications are, I'm not sure.

Dr Jobling dismissed the idea that the study could have any political implications. "It seems that in many of these situations where groups are in conflict with each other they are likely to be pretty much genetically indistinguishable, and this factor, to the peoples involved in these conflicts, clearly isn't the point and isn't likely to change their behaviour very much."

SOURCE: BBC News | SCI/TECH | Jews and Arabs are 'genetic brothers'

This is just another reason why, as discussed in another thread, I don't use ethnic or racial indicators to from a template. However, there are separate genetic markers that may have a bearing on the issue; --- but, that is not our topic.

(IMPLICATIONS)

• Two cultures (Jews 'vs' non-Jews/Muslim), within the same ethnic origins (Arabs), are locked in combat with each other.

• Genetically, you can tie both cultures (Jews 'vs' non-Jews/Muslim) historically to the same region.

Most Respectfully,
R

Sort of like the American Civil War then. I don't see what genetics have to do with the current struggle. Do Americans have the same genomes as the British, Germans, Italians and other Caucasians we had disagreements and wars with? I'd be surprised if they did not.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

[*]Two cultures (Jews 'vs' non-Jews/Muslim), within the same ethnic origins (Arabs),

That is incorrect. The Jews predate the Arabs, so the assertion that the "ethnic origin" of both is "Arabs" is simply wrong.

Of course, none of this is relevant to the issues we face today, but that correction was nonetheless necessary.

 

[José]

Lots of good ideas for new threads coming from this one:

Hossfly = a comparative study between Mexico's loss of California, Texas and the palestinian loss of western Palestine, between Aztlan and other hispanic nationalist movements and palestinians.

Hossfly = a deeper explanation on what I call "the customary, unwritten laws of mankind concerning landgrabs".

RoccoR = the terrorist element of the palestinian armed struggle (targeting of civilians).

History/Roudy = the palestinian national identity.

 

[Hossfly]

Originally posted by Hossfly
Cry havoc! and let slip the dogs of war, that this foul deed shall smell above the earth with carrion men, groaning for burial.
~~Shakespeare, William

Go for it, invader!!

Exterminate us, carpet bomb us into submission!!

I assure you, I guarantee you with 100% certainty that after you finish NO ONE will launch rockets at you anymore, noone will be claiming their stolen land anymore.

Make up your mind, invader:

Kill us now or just shut up and spare us your crap:

"OHH!! Look how good we are!! I just stole your land, herded you into ethnic enclaves but I allowed you to live!!

I think I deserve the Nobel Peace Prize!!"

Do whatever you have to do and keep your cynical bullshit to yourself, invader!!

I just now pissed in my pants!

 

[RoccoR]

José,, et al,

Now this is just too funny!

Lots of good ideas for new threads coming from this one:
RoccoR = the terrorist element of the palestinian armed struggle (targeting of civilians).

(COMMENT)

Normally I'm accused of siding too strongly with the pro-Israeli side. This is a switch.

v/r
R

 

[Roudy]

No, it's not the same because all "Arabs" aren't the same.

I'm not saying Palestinians are the same as all Jews but there is very little difference between them and the Palestinian Jews.

Palestinians are Arabs that are identical to their neighbors, Egyptians, Jordanians, Syrians, and Lebanese, historically, genetically and culturally. The name Palestinian is a recent invention. And that's exactly what Zuhair Muhsain was trying to say.

Palestinians are also include Jews and some Jews are Palestinians - culturally, historically, genetically they are very similar.

Meh...your argument is weak at best, what I said was the Palestinians are the same exact Arabs as their neighbors that decided to call themselves Palestinians. There is no distinction and they are not a separate people with a separate history. As many Arabs of that time noted.

Trying to bring in "similarities" between the Jews and Palestinians, and then concluding based on those similarities that they are the same is pretty pathetic. Today's Palestinians are Arabs Muslims. If anybody knows about the history of the region, it's religions and cultures, it goes without saying that the Jews were pretty insular people who rarely intermarried or converted. Up to the mid 20th century and even today, one would not be considered a Jew unless their mother was one.

One can find similarities between all peoples, as one can between different ethnicities and nationalities in Europe. Finding similarities between Serbs and Germans doesn't make them the same people, as you keep alluding to! Geezus, are you thick headed or what.