NC New Welfare Drug Test Law: 1/3rd Tested Positive from Sample.

[Publius1787]

.2% of the total is misleading. We don't know how many did drugs because most of them weren't tested.

You aren't fooling anyone, Pub. The title to this thread is misleading. It is the same as if you were to count blacks doing drugs in Harlem, and then claim that 100% of drug abusers are black, based on your "sample".

Not quite. So we both agree they should test all welfare applicants if for nothing more than to get the correct data?

Just how much money per welfare recipient do you think that North Carolina should spend weeding out drug users? I suspect that the actual cost of a drug test is around $200. It would have to be repeated on at least a random basis periodically, in order to catch those that fall off the wagon, just like businesses do. And exactly what is the state's responsibility toward the children whose food you just took off the table, and how much is THAT going to cost the state. And, what about the needed personnel to administer all of this? I thought that big intrusive government was bad. What I see here is government ballooning even more to know everything there is about us. Whether mom smokes pot, or not, those kids have to eat. That has always been the parents responsibility, but if you are going to take their food away, you had better start building orphans homes.

Or breeding licenses. I wouldn't mind a law forbidding those on public assistance from having children. As for those who had children before they got on public assistance, well, that'll be another story. Nevertheless, drug use is probable cause for a social services visit into the household. We certainly don't need crack heads raising children now do we?

But but... but.. but. ITS FOR THE KIDS!!!!!!

Then you would be perfectly happy living in China, because they do exactly what you are suggesting. You been reading a lot of Mao's little red book lately?

For most of the world children are cheap. Almost as cheap as life itself. And they're a damn good incentive to get off of your ass and go to work. Unless, of course, you're getting money to sit on it. There are a variety of ways children are taken care of in countries with no safety net at all. Getting deployed to every third world rat hole while I was in the service really put things in perspective for me. I've been to countries where they would envy Chinese children. We're spoiled rotten in America to the point that we no longer have the insight of much of the poor world anymore. You're talking about USA problems, not third world problems. The cure for children on welfare is not to make people comfortable in their poverty. There is a reason that poor people from other countries blow us away in our own educational system. They and their parents truly know what it is to be poor and take nothing for granted. There are no poor families in the United States by comparison. You want draw any tears from my eyes when you say "but ... but... look at the poor children."

 

[Publius1787]

this is what the originating article states:


North Carolina begins drug tests for welfare applicants
[email protected]

State officials presented early results Tuesday of a new law that requires drug tests for welfare applicants. Of several thousand people who were screened, 89 people took the test and 21 of them tested positive.

The law requiring testing of any Work First recipient suspected of being a drug user was enacted in 2013 over Gov. Pat McCrory’s veto. After a year’s delay in implementing the law, the state began requiring the testing in August.

Of 7,600 applicants and recipients, about 2 percent were referred for drug testing. The 21 positive tests represent less than 0.3 percent of the people screened.

Work First is the state welfare program that offers short-term cash benefits, training and support services to families. In about 62 percent of Work First cases, only children get benefits — and no adults fall under the test requirement.

The program starts with screening of applicants and benefit recipients. About 7,600 people were screened in the last five months of 2015, said Wayne Black, director of the Social Services Division at the state Department of Health and Human Services.

Social workers ask those being screened about drug use in the previous 12 months to determine whether to refer them for testing. People convicted of felony drug offenses in the three years before applying for benefits are also referred.

Benefits for adults are cut off if a test is positive, or a test appointment is missed. Seventy people failed to show up for appointments in the last five months of last year, Black told the Joint Legislative Oversight Committee on Health and Human Services. The totals for 2015 may be off, he said, because some applications filed in December would not have been processed until January.

Of the 21 positive cases, 12 were approved for a reduced payment because children were involved. In the others, the applications were withdrawn or were disqualified for other reasons, Black said.

that's right, there is a difference between "tested" and "screened"

 

[Care4all]

this is what the originating article states:


North Carolina begins drug tests for welfare applicants
[email protected]

State officials presented early results Tuesday of a new law that requires drug tests for welfare applicants. Of several thousand people who were screened, 89 people took the test and 21 of them tested positive.

The law requiring testing of any Work First recipient suspected of being a drug user was enacted in 2013 over Gov. Pat McCrory’s veto. After a year’s delay in implementing the law, the state began requiring the testing in August.

Of 7,600 applicants and recipients, about 2 percent were referred for drug testing. The 21 positive tests represent less than 0.3 percent of the people screened.

Work First is the state welfare program that offers short-term cash benefits, training and support services to families. In about 62 percent of Work First cases, only children get benefits — and no adults fall under the test requirement.

The program starts with screening of applicants and benefit recipients. About 7,600 people were screened in the last five months of 2015, said Wayne Black, director of the Social Services Division at the state Department of Health and Human Services.

Social workers ask those being screened about drug use in the previous 12 months to determine whether to refer them for testing. People convicted of felony drug offenses in the three years before applying for benefits are also referred.

Benefits for adults are cut off if a test is positive, or a test appointment is missed. Seventy people failed to show up for appointments in the last five months of last year, Black told the Joint Legislative Oversight Committee on Health and Human Services. The totals for 2015 may be off, he said, because some applications filed in December would not have been processed until January.

Of the 21 positive cases, 12 were approved for a reduced payment because children were involved. In the others, the applications were withdrawn or were disqualified for other reasons, Black said.

that's right, there is a difference between "tested" and "screened"

The ones tested, were part of the entire screened group, that govt workers felt were suspicious... of doing drugs or ex felons that were previously convicted of a drug charge within the previous 3 year period.

the 89 were singled out by our govt in the screening process of the 7600 as high risk drug users...

and of those people our gvt considered to have a high risk of drug use, our govt officials were wrong 75% of the time....

 

[easyt65]

[QUOTE="Vandalshandle, post: 14014943, member: 42404
Then you would be perfectly happy living in China, because they do exactly what you are suggesting. You been reading a lot of Mao's little red book lately?[/QUOTE]

Unlike China, the united States Government PAYS unwed mothers to have kids - pays per child. This is another ridiculous example of moronic behavior / lack of fiscal responsibility / holding others accountable.

Mistakes happen, single women get pregnant, and I have no problem with providing monetary assistance to the mother...along with counseling / education on how NOT to let this happen again. I MIGHT be willing to provide additional govt financial support for 2....MAYBE. 3 or more? Hell No! And if you can't support the kids you had on your own at that point, for their sake they should be taken from you. IMHO

 

[Publius1787]

this is what the originating article states:


North Carolina begins drug tests for welfare applicants
[email protected]

State officials presented early results Tuesday of a new law that requires drug tests for welfare applicants. Of several thousand people who were screened, 89 people took the test and 21 of them tested positive.

The law requiring testing of any Work First recipient suspected of being a drug user was enacted in 2013 over Gov. Pat McCrory’s veto. After a year’s delay in implementing the law, the state began requiring the testing in August.

Of 7,600 applicants and recipients, about 2 percent were referred for drug testing. The 21 positive tests represent less than 0.3 percent of the people screened.

Work First is the state welfare program that offers short-term cash benefits, training and support services to families. In about 62 percent of Work First cases, only children get benefits — and no adults fall under the test requirement.

The program starts with screening of applicants and benefit recipients. About 7,600 people were screened in the last five months of 2015, said Wayne Black, director of the Social Services Division at the state Department of Health and Human Services.

Social workers ask those being screened about drug use in the previous 12 months to determine whether to refer them for testing. People convicted of felony drug offenses in the three years before applying for benefits are also referred.

Benefits for adults are cut off if a test is positive, or a test appointment is missed. Seventy people failed to show up for appointments in the last five months of last year, Black told the Joint Legislative Oversight Committee on Health and Human Services. The totals for 2015 may be off, he said, because some applications filed in December would not have been processed until January.

Of the 21 positive cases, 12 were approved for a reduced payment because children were involved. In the others, the applications were withdrawn or were disqualified for other reasons, Black said.

that's right, there is a difference between "tested" and "screened"

The ones tested, were part of the entire screened group, that govt workers felt were suspicious... of doing drugs or ex felons that were previously convicted of a drug charge within the previous 3 year period.

the 89 were singled out by our govt in the screening process of the 7600 as high risk drug users...

and of those people our gvt considered to have a high risk of drug use, our govt officials were wrong 75% of the time....

Yeah, they were wrong 99.9% of the time when I was piss tested in the Marines but that didn't stop them from testing. Why do you think that is? And when has the government, particularly a social services department, been good at assessing any situation? I think we should drug test everyone on welfare if nothing more than to get the correct data. What say you? One year of correct data and then we can put this argument behind us? Nope, because you don't want the data. Isn't that right?

 

[Pogo]

Yeah, tell that to every administrator of every drug test I took in the Marines.

Have them send me a PM. I'll take care of it.

Drugs are certainly probable cause for a house visit from social services.

Umm..... that's not what "probable cause" means. It means the Law has probable cause to do the search --- not that it has reason to take further action on the basis of an illegal search. No Sparkles, the fact that you exist does not constitute "probable cause".

Nice try but learn your legal terms.

 

[Vandalshandle]

You aren't fooling anyone, Pub. The title to this thread is misleading. It is the same as if you were to count blacks doing drugs in Harlem, and then claim that 100% of drug abusers are black, based on your "sample".

Not quite. So we both agree they should test all welfare applicants if for nothing more than to get the correct data?

Just how much money per welfare recipient do you think that North Carolina should spend weeding out drug users? I suspect that the actual cost of a drug test is around $200. It would have to be repeated on at least a random basis periodically, in order to catch those that fall off the wagon, just like businesses do. And exactly what is the state's responsibility toward the children whose food you just took off the table, and how much is THAT going to cost the state. And, what about the needed personnel to administer all of this? I thought that big intrusive government was bad. What I see here is government ballooning even more to know everything there is about us. Whether mom smokes pot, or not, those kids have to eat. That has always been the parents responsibility, but if you are going to take their food away, you had better start building orphans homes.

Or breeding licenses. I wouldn't mind a law forbidding those on public assistance from having children. As for those who had children before they got on public assistance, well, that'll be another story. Nevertheless, drug use is probable cause for a social services visit into the household. We certainly don't need crack heads raising children now do we?

But but... but.. but. ITS FOR THE KIDS!!!!!!

Then you would be perfectly happy living in China, because they do exactly what you are suggesting. You been reading a lot of Mao's little red book lately?

For most of the world children are cheap. Almost as cheap as life itself. And they're a damn good incentive to get off of your ass and go to work. Unless, of course, you're getting money to sit on it. There are a variety of ways children are taken care of in countries with no safety net at all. Getting deployed to every third world rat hole while I was in the service really put things in perspective for me. I've been to countries where they would envy Chinese children. We're spoiled rotten in America to the point that we no longer have the insight of much of the poor world anymore. You're talking about USA problems, not third world problems. The cure for children on welfare is not to make people comfortable in their poverty. There is a reason that poor people from other countries blow us away in our own educational system. They and their parents truly know what it is to be poor and take nothing for granted. There are no poor families in the United States by comparison. You want draw any tears from my eyes when you say "but ... but... look at the poor children."

Well, i guess that I don't have a rebuttal to the argument that the children of the USA should be treated more like the children of Somalia.....

 

[jillian]

you're a moron.

liberals don't like starving children.

and we'd rather feed those children than unnecessarily spend money humiliating their parents if they get high occasionally. given that your posts sound like you're constantly high, you really shouldn't worry about anyone else.

No, Liberals claim they are worried about the kids and that we need to leave children in the homes of poor, drug-using parents, and keep the money flowing, so they can buy more drugs. If you gave a damn about those kids you would not want to continue to support the parents' habit, you would want to identify which parents have kids yet are using illegals drugs in the home so you could address the problem and work to provide a safer environment in which the child could grow up.

No, again, you seek to make the drug-using parent with children out to be a victim and claim letting them continue their tax-payer funded drug use is 'in the best interest of the child'.

"But ... but.... but.... It's for the children," said every liberal trying to throw sympathy in the face of logic.

Actually --- it's for everybody. It's part of the Constitution being spat on. Amendment Four to be specific.

the pretend constitutionalists never get that.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

this is what the originating article states:


North Carolina begins drug tests for welfare applicants
[email protected]

State officials presented early results Tuesday of a new law that requires drug tests for welfare applicants. Of several thousand people who were screened, 89 people took the test and 21 of them tested positive.

The law requiring testing of any Work First recipient suspected of being a drug user was enacted in 2013 over Gov. Pat McCrory’s veto. After a year’s delay in implementing the law, the state began requiring the testing in August.

Of 7,600 applicants and recipients, about 2 percent were referred for drug testing. The 21 positive tests represent less than 0.3 percent of the people screened.

Work First is the state welfare program that offers short-term cash benefits, training and support services to families. In about 62 percent of Work First cases, only children get benefits — and no adults fall under the test requirement.

The program starts with screening of applicants and benefit recipients. About 7,600 people were screened in the last five months of 2015, said Wayne Black, director of the Social Services Division at the state Department of Health and Human Services.

Social workers ask those being screened about drug use in the previous 12 months to determine whether to refer them for testing. People convicted of felony drug offenses in the three years before applying for benefits are also referred.

Benefits for adults are cut off if a test is positive, or a test appointment is missed. Seventy people failed to show up for appointments in the last five months of last year, Black told the Joint Legislative Oversight Committee on Health and Human Services. The totals for 2015 may be off, he said, because some applications filed in December would not have been processed until January.

Of the 21 positive cases, 12 were approved for a reduced payment because children were involved. In the others, the applications were withdrawn or were disqualified for other reasons, Black said.

A similar idiotic Florida law was struck down as un-Constitutional in 2011 by a Federal judge, ruling it violated the 4th Amendment as an illegal search.

In an effort to make its idiotic law immune from a 4th Amendment challenge, North Carolina contrived a provision giving state case workers the responsibility to decide who gets tested based on past drug use and prior convictions.

We can only hope this hateful, wrongheaded law is likewise subject to a lawsuit.

Once again we see more evidence of the right’s contempt for the Constitution, its case law, and the rule of law, along with conservatives’ disdain for low income Americans, as republicans seek to increase the size and authority of government at the expense of individual liberty.

 

[Wilbur Right]

The state has a compelling interest to prevent drug users from raising children. You disagree?

You right wing nuts. Get that government out of my life. Unless us republicans can use government to fuck with poor people.

Hey let's take away all the kids from alcohol drinkers (drug) let's take the kids away from vicodan addicts (drugs) let's take the kids away from oxytocin users (drugs).

There are all kinds of drug users we can take their kids from them.

How big is your house publish?

 

[NYcarbineer]

this is what the originating article states:


North Carolina begins drug tests for welfare applicants
[email protected]

State officials presented early results Tuesday of a new law that requires drug tests for welfare applicants. Of several thousand people who were screened, 89 people took the test and 21 of them tested positive.

The law requiring testing of any Work First recipient suspected of being a drug user was enacted in 2013 over Gov. Pat McCrory’s veto. After a year’s delay in implementing the law, the state began requiring the testing in August.

Of 7,600 applicants and recipients, about 2 percent were referred for drug testing. The 21 positive tests represent less than 0.3 percent of the people screened.

Work First is the state welfare program that offers short-term cash benefits, training and support services to families. In about 62 percent of Work First cases, only children get benefits — and no adults fall under the test requirement.

The program starts with screening of applicants and benefit recipients. About 7,600 people were screened in the last five months of 2015, said Wayne Black, director of the Social Services Division at the state Department of Health and Human Services.

Social workers ask those being screened about drug use in the previous 12 months to determine whether to refer them for testing. People convicted of felony drug offenses in the three years before applying for benefits are also referred.

Benefits for adults are cut off if a test is positive, or a test appointment is missed. Seventy people failed to show up for appointments in the last five months of last year, Black told the Joint Legislative Oversight Committee on Health and Human Services. The totals for 2015 may be off, he said, because some applications filed in December would not have been processed until January.

Of the 21 positive cases, 12 were approved for a reduced payment because children were involved. In the others, the applications were withdrawn or were disqualified for other reasons, Black said.

that's right, there is a difference between "tested" and "screened"

The ones tested, were part of the entire screened group, that govt workers felt were suspicious... of doing drugs or ex felons that were previously convicted of a drug charge within the previous 3 year period.

the 89 were singled out by our govt in the screening process of the 7600 as high risk drug users...

and of those people our gvt considered to have a high risk of drug use, our govt officials were wrong 75% of the time....

Yeah, they were wrong 99.9% of the time when I was piss tested in the Marines but that didn't stop them from testing. Why do you think that is? And when has the government, particularly a social services department, been good at assessing any situation? I think we should drug test everyone on welfare if nothing more than to get the correct data. What say you? One year of correct data and then we can put this argument behind us? Nope, because you don't want the data. Isn't that right?

How about we test EVERYONE for a year and get ALL the correct data?

 

[Seawytch]

Awesome thinking!

Let's test otherwise law abiding citizens who need some help paying bills and feeding their kids...so we can see if they smoked a joint last week. . If so....we can deny them the few hundred bucks of assistance they get. Then, they can resort to a criminal act to pay those bills. We can catch them and put them in jail....for 30k per year......and then pay to feed the kids some other way.

It's brilliant conservative thinking.

The state has a compelling interest to prevent drug users from raising children. You disagree?

I do. What would be the compelling interest? Do you see "drug use" on here as a cause of death or serious injury for children?

In fact, by this chart it looks like there is actually a compelling state interest in not allowing gun owners to raise children...

 

[BluesLegend]

If you were stuck on the Democratic party plantation in a life of poverty you would take drugs too.

 

[rightwinger]

North Carolina begins drug tests for welfare applicants | Myinforms

"State officials presented early results Tuesday of a new law that requires drug tests for welfare applicants. Of several thousand people who were screened, 89 people took the test and 21 of them tested positive.The law requiring testing of any Work First recipient suspected of being a drug user was enacted in 2013 over Gov. Pat McCrory’s veto."

Misleading thread title on your part, don't you think?

From your link:

Social workers ask those being screened about drug use in the previous 12 months to determine whether to refer them for testing. People convicted of felony drug offenses in the three years before applying for benefits are also referred

So we are not dealing with a random sample of welfare recipients only a sample of those suspected of drug use. To look at it another way...2/3 of those suspected of drug use are clean

 

[Dragonlady]

North Carolina begins drug tests for welfare applicants | Myinforms

"State officials presented early results Tuesday of a new law that requires drug tests for welfare applicants. Of several thousand people who were screened, 89 people took the test and 21 of them tested positive.The law requiring testing of any Work First recipient suspected of being a drug user was enacted in 2013 over Gov. Pat McCrory’s veto."

They SCREENED 7,600 people, between August and September. At the end of this process, 21 tested positive, that's not 1/3 of the people they tested, because they spent time, and resources, screening 7,600 people. It's 0.0027%. The premise of the original post is false.

How much money was spent on the screening these 7,600 people. If they cut the 21 drug users off welfare, will the savings recover the costs of this folly? If not, what's the point of the testing? It's your tax dollars that are being wasted on this bullshit.

Bullshit such as mandatory drug screening for welfare recipients may accomplish the conservative goal of shaming and humiliating welfare recipients, but from a cost recovery standpoint, it's adding to the administration costs for welfare, it's adding to the size of government as more government workers are required for the screening and the tests.

So much for smaller and less intrusive government, which is something conservatives say they want, but in the end, they want people checking your birth certificate to make sure you're using the right bathroom, they want to you to arrest and prosecute women who have abortions, and control who you marry, and set up a situation where people can exercise their personal biases and discriminate against those their religion tell them are lesser people.

Yes, the Conservative party, the party of freedom and responsibility.

 

[rightwinger]

North Carolina begins drug tests for welfare applicants | Myinforms

"State officials presented early results Tuesday of a new law that requires drug tests for welfare applicants. Of several thousand people who were screened, 89 people took the test and 21 of them tested positive.The law requiring testing of any Work First recipient suspected of being a drug user was enacted in 2013 over Gov. Pat McCrory’s veto."

They SCREENED 7,600 people, between August and September. At the end of this process, 21 tested positive, that's not 1/3 of the people they tested, because they spent time, and resources, screening 7,600 people. It's 0.0027%. The premise of the original post is false.

How much money was spent on the screening these 7,600 people. If they cut the 21 drug users off welfare, will the savings recover the costs of this folly? If not, what's the point of the testing? It's your tax dollars that are being wasted on this bullshit.

Bullshit such as mandatory drug screening for welfare recipients may accomplish the conservative goal of shaming and humiliating welfare recipients, but from a cost recovery standpoint, it's adding to the administration costs for welfare, it's adding to the size of government as more government workers are required for the screening and the tests.

So much for smaller and less intrusive government, which is something conservatives say they want, but in the end, they want people checking your birth certificate to make sure you're using the right bathroom, they want to you to arrest and prosecute women who have abortions, and control who you marry, and set up a situation where people can exercise their personal biases and discriminate against those their religion tell them are lesser people.

Yes, the Conservative party, the party of freedom and responsibility.

It goes with the Conservative philosophy that poor people do not suffer enough

Those taking public money must be humiliated, shamed and made to grovel for their support. If you make it too easy, everyone will want to be poor

 

[easyt65]

Liberals are in large part why the poor suffer. They judge the success of social programs like welfare and foodstamps and their success for providing these programs by the massive number of Americans on these programs than by the number of people they help get OFF these programs.

 

[Brain357]

North Carolina begins drug tests for welfare applicants | Myinforms

"State officials presented early results Tuesday of a new law that requires drug tests for welfare applicants. Of several thousand people who were screened, 89 people took the test and 21 of them tested positive.The law requiring testing of any Work First recipient suspected of being a drug user was enacted in 2013 over Gov. Pat McCrory’s veto."

They SCREENED 7,600 people, between August and September. At the end of this process, 21 tested positive, that's not 1/3 of the people they tested, because they spent time, and resources, screening 7,600 people. It's 0.0027%. The premise of the original post is false.

How much money was spent on the screening these 7,600 people. If they cut the 21 drug users off welfare, will the savings recover the costs of this folly? If not, what's the point of the testing? It's your tax dollars that are being wasted on this bullshit.

Bullshit such as mandatory drug screening for welfare recipients may accomplish the conservative goal of shaming and humiliating welfare recipients, but from a cost recovery standpoint, it's adding to the administration costs for welfare, it's adding to the size of government as more government workers are required for the screening and the tests.

So much for smaller and less intrusive government, which is something conservatives say they want, but in the end, they want people checking your birth certificate to make sure you're using the right bathroom, they want to you to arrest and prosecute women who have abortions, and control who you marry, and set up a situation where people can exercise their personal biases and discriminate against those their religion tell them are lesser people.

Yes, the Conservative party, the party of freedom and responsibility.

It goes with the Conservative philosophy that poor people do not suffer enough

Those taking public money must be humiliated, shamed and made to grovel for their support. If you make it too easy, everyone will want to be poor

Why does the small government party care? This sounds big government to me.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

If you have to b able to pass a drug test to actually earn a living, why not to receive money being given to you by others?

Seems basic to me.. yes, you should have to be able to prove that the money you are getting to exist is not being spent on illicit drugs.

 

[rightwinger]

Liberals are in large part why the poor suffer. They judge the success of social programs like welfare and foodstamps and their success for providing these programs by the massive number of Americans on these programs than by the number of people they help get OFF these programs.

I 'd love to see all the Republican programs that help people get off welfare

The only thing Republicans do for the poor is build more prisons